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Wednesday, April 22, 2009

Biz of Baseball: Keith Olbermann Hired by MLBAM. Will Donate At-Large Salary to Charity

And Maury dials up…“Now, all MLBAM needs to do is hire Rush, and you have the Red Sox/Yankees.”

MLB Advanced Media (MLBAM) announced today that it has hired anchor, sportscaster and journalist Keith Olbermann as an at-large columnist. Olbermann’s columns, currently available three times per week at keitholbermann.mlblogs.com, will provide fans with his “Baseball Nerd” perspective of the game across various platforms. He also is the first national journalist hired as part of MLBAM’s digital newspaper initiative, currently scheduled for a May launch.

At his request, Olbermann’s full salary for his work as an at-large columnist will be split equally among three charitable organizations. They will be: the Baseball Assistance Team, St. Jude’s Children’s Research Hospital and the Jayden Braden/Ariana Marzano College Fund, established in support of the late John Marzano’s grandchildren. Marzano, a former Major Leaguer and MLB.com host, died just over one year ago in a home accident in Philadelphia.

“I’ve long respected MLB.com’s editorial independence and I’ll be delighted to test it,” said Olbermann. “Seriously, it’s an honor to be able to write about all the obscure things I love inside the game I love, and to help some worthy causes in the process, and to honor an old friend. Not to mention that it will be my politics-free oasis. Unless another cat jumps up at another Governor.”

Repoz Posted: April 22, 2009 at 03:16 PM | 243 comment(s) | Login to Bookmark
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   101. Craig Calcaterra Posted: April 22, 2009 at 07:39 PM (#3148451)
I really disliked "Automatic for the People".


I think most people think "Everybody Hurts" when they think of this album, and it's probably one of the worst songs on there. "Nightswimming," "Find the River" and "Sweetness Follows" are amazing songs. Radically different than what they were doing in the 80s, but stunning stuff all the same. Maybe you just need to have a wuss side to you to like it, though, and I'll admit that I have a wuss side.
   102. Lassus: Posted: April 22, 2009 at 07:42 PM (#3148455)
I saw Patton, Zorn, and that woman who plays the Macintosh at a New Year's Eve show years ago at the Knitting Factory

-moment of silence-

and as much as I love experimental noise, it was more of the same for me as with a lot of his work. Such an awesome voice, so little singing, perhaps none at all. It was really frustrating, even when I knew it was coming.
   103. Der_K is getting more dogmatic. Posted: April 22, 2009 at 07:43 PM (#3148456)
Patton's an interesting guy. I'm partial to his Lovage stuff, but that's my Dan The Automator love talkin'.
Odds are this won't interest many, but: Scott Miller (of Game Theory and the Loud Family) has been listing his favorite songs by year in a recent series of posts here.
I can't imagine putting AC/DC ahead of Outkast - neat.
Sugar Ray were good at what they did. I don't need to own any of it, but they were fine. Color Me Badd was awful.
"The Freshmen" is one of my least favorte songs of all-time. Hearing it actually makes me angry for reasons that are unclear to me.
   104. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: April 22, 2009 at 07:43 PM (#3148457)
Am I the only one who was a big Nine Inch Nails fan in the early '90s? "Broken" is a masterpiece.

Also, Ministry was putting out some of their best stuff around that time, the Depeche Mode "Violator" album came out in 1990, and the first Radiohead album, flawed as it was, came out in 1992.

It was sort of a golden age for rock music, before Clearchannel stomped it into the mud.
   105. Der_K is getting more dogmatic. Posted: April 22, 2009 at 07:47 PM (#3148464)
It was sort of a golden age for rock music.

I dunno. It was for me, because that was when I first developed a meaningful engagement with it, but a lot of hasn't aged all that well (IMO).
   106. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 22, 2009 at 07:47 PM (#3148465)
"Am I the only one who was a big Nine Inch Nails fan in the early '90s? "Broken" is a masterpiece."

No, you aren't.
   107. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn) Posted: April 22, 2009 at 07:48 PM (#3148466)
About halfway through "Outshined" there's a Chris Cornell primal scream that I've been trying to imitate for close to 20 years. In his prime, he had THE voice.
   108. Crashburn Alley Posted: April 22, 2009 at 07:49 PM (#3148469)
Not related to the current train of conversation...

I find it amazing that so many people did not like Audioslave, and I am not just talking about here. Plenty of my friends and acquaintances never got into Audioslave but were nearly as hardcore about Soundgarden as I was.

Audioslave was comprised of arguably the best vocalist (Chris Cornell) at least of the 1980's and '90's; arguably the best guitarist ever (Tom Morello); and two musical experts on bass (Tim Commerford) and drums (Brad Wilk). What's not to like?

Their second album, Out of Exile, was their worst in my opinion (because it consistently failed to accentuate the best parts of the band: vocals and guitar), but their first self-titled album blew me away and their third album, Revelations, was very well-constructed with a masterful blend of old and new stuff.

Cornell didn't sound that different than he did in his Soundgarden days, so I just don't know how one can like or love Soundgarden but not like Audioslave unless you are a hardcore Soundgarden enthusiast and hate anything the guys do afterwards outside of a band rebirth.

By the way, Cornell's "I Am the Highway" is the best vocal performance I have ever heard.
   109. Lassus: Posted: April 22, 2009 at 07:51 PM (#3148471)
Good song until the end, but the rap killed it for me. It's just . . .not good.

KRS-One was one of the pillars. For the time, I think REM chose well. Listening to it now it can't help but sound dated, of course.


Am I the only one who was a big Nine Inch Nails fan in the early '90s? "Broken" is a masterpiece.

Broken is awesome, and I've liked a lot more of Reznor's output than is probably acceptable, but I still think that NIN has the great notoriety of being unable to top their very first single with anything that followed.
   110. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: April 22, 2009 at 07:51 PM (#3148472)
I just don't know how one can like or love Soundgarden but not like Audioslave unless you are a hardcore Soundgarden enthusiast and hate anything the guys do afterwards outside of a band rebirth.

I think there's this, and also the Rage Against the Machine fans who were pissed that they broke up.
   111. RJ not in TO Posted: April 22, 2009 at 07:56 PM (#3148478)
Audioslave was comprised of arguably the best vocalist (Chris Cornell) at least of the 1980's and '90's; arguably the best guitarist ever (Tom Morello); and two musical experts on bass (Tim Commerford) and drums (Brad Wilk). What's not to like?

Audioslave was terrible on it's own merits. The fact that Tom Morello was wasting his immense talent making that awful trash music just made it worse.
   112. Lassus: Posted: April 22, 2009 at 07:56 PM (#3148479)
By the way, Cornell's "I Am the Highway" is the best vocal performance I have ever heard.

The problem is, the performance seems to be wasted on an incredibly dull song.
   113. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: April 22, 2009 at 07:56 PM (#3148480)
I still think that NIN has the great notoriety of being unable to top their very first single with anything that followed.

Technically Nine Inch Nails' first single was "Down In It", but I get what you mean.

I loved "Head Like a Hole", and was blown away by the "Broken" EP (and the "Fixed" remix). "The Downward Spiral" was really good, but kind of a step down from there. I haven't been much of a fan since then.

Looking back at it, they were pretty pretentious, but I still think Tool was pretty amazing. The "Opiate" EP came out in 1992.

Maybe it's just me - I was 16 in 1991 - but I have a hard time thinking of a more fecund time, musically speaking. Great stuff seemed to be coming out all the time.
   114. Crashburn Alley Posted: April 22, 2009 at 07:59 PM (#3148483)
The problem is, the performance seems to be wasted on an incredibly dull song.


What other composition would go better with it? If "I Am the Highway" is more hard rock-ey then it overshadows Cornell's vocals and it really loses its emotion. I guess Morello could have thrown in some wah-wah solos as he was wont to do but it would have really stuck out like a sore thumb.
   115. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: April 22, 2009 at 08:00 PM (#3148484)
I would rather have an ipod stitched to my ears which played only Color Me Badd "Classics" than spend thirty seconds listening to Sugar Ray. Have you guys forgotten the power of "I Wanna Sex You Up?" How can that be?
   116. tribefan Posted: April 22, 2009 at 08:01 PM (#3148487)
Maybe it's just me - I was 16 in 1991 - but I have a hard time thinking of a more fecund time, musically speaking.


I think every 16 year old who is into music feels that way. 1986 produced Reign In Blood, Master Of Puppets, Peace Sells, The Age of Quarrel, Orgasmatron, and a bunch of other awesome metal albums. I have never been happier than I was that year.
   117. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: April 22, 2009 at 08:04 PM (#3148491)
I was also 16 in 1991 and I'm sure that my age at the time impacts my perception of the period. However, that year was pretty extraordinary in music. Nirvana essentially nuking Glam Rock forever should have been worthy of a Nobel Prize for something.
   118. Craig Calcaterra Posted: April 22, 2009 at 08:07 PM (#3148497)
Not to devalue anyone's tastes, but isn't it the case that EVERYBODY thinks that the music they were into when they were, oh, 16-21 was the best stuff ever? It's probably why I like Automatic for the people so much and Nirvana and all of that. It's why I'll sit and say that Low End Theory is better than anything else before or since. Hell, I'll defend that point to the death, but it will never stop the neighborhood teenagers from laughing their asses off at me when I'm rollin' the burbs in my Honda Accord blasting "Scenario."

Edit: or what Tribefan said.
   119. Lassus: Posted: April 22, 2009 at 08:08 PM (#3148498)
What other composition would go better with it? If "I Am the Highway" is more hard rock-ey then it overshadows Cornell's vocals and it really loses its emotion. I guess Morello could have thrown in some wah-wah solos as he was wont to do but it would have really stuck out like a sore thumb.

To my ears, the composition is just dull. No amount of guitar soloing would make a difference. I would never claim this as an objective observation, but for me there is no melodic hook in the song that makes me want to listen. In a way, it actually tries too hard to be good and fails, it should have stayed out of Cornell's way, pared back, and just been a showcase for him. As it is, it just trudges along in a middle area that I find entirely forgettable. My OPINION, though, that's what makes music art, and debatable. :-)
   120. Crashburn Alley Posted: April 22, 2009 at 08:09 PM (#3148499)
I'm rollin' the burbs in my Honda Accord


How do you find the time to both roll in the 'burbs and blog from your mother's basement?

I would never claim this as an objective observation, but for me there is no melodic hook in the song that makes me want to listen.


Understood. I thought you had a suggestion already in mind, but I can understand how it can't be everyone's cup of tea.
   121. Athletic Supporter leads the nation in drifters Posted: April 22, 2009 at 08:10 PM (#3148500)
rollin' the burbs in my Honda Accord blasting "Scenario."

Edit: or what Tribefan said.


I see what you did there.
   122. Craig Calcaterra Posted: April 22, 2009 at 08:10 PM (#3148501)
Nirvana essentially nuking Glam Rock forever should have been worthy of a Nobel Prize for something
.

They only nuked it if you narrowly define "Glam Rock." Here are the best selling albums, year by year, in the 1990s. Tell me what impact Nirvana had on any of this crap:

The best-selling album of 1990 was Rhythm Nation 1814, by Janet Jackson.[35]
The best-selling album of 1991 was Mariah Carey, by Mariah Carey.[36]
The best-selling album of 1992 was Ropin' the Wind, by Garth Brooks.[37]
The best-selling album of 1993 was The Bodyguard Soundtrack.[38]
The best-selling album of 1994 was The Sign, by Ace of Base .[39]
The best-selling album of 1995 was Cracked Rear View, by Hootie and the Blowfish.[40]
The best-selling album of 1996 was Jagged Little Pill, by Alanis Morissette.[41]
The best-selling album of 1997 was Spice, by Spice Girls.[42]
The best-selling album of 1998 was Titanic Soundtrack.[43]
The best selling album of 1999 was Millennium, by Backstreet Boys.[44]

And I freakin' LOVE Nirvana.
   123. Lassus: Posted: April 22, 2009 at 08:12 PM (#3148508)
Not to devalue anyone's tastes, but isn't it the case that EVERYBODY thinks that the music they were into when they were, oh, 16-21 was the best stuff ever?

GOD, NO. Those Thompson Twins albums have not aged well.

Then again, Husker Du has.

Rhythm Nation 1814 was a great album, BTW.
   124. Obama Bomaye Posted: April 22, 2009 at 08:14 PM (#3148513)
That is one motley crue in 122.
   125. tribefan Posted: April 22, 2009 at 08:14 PM (#3148516)
that's an ugly list
   126. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: April 22, 2009 at 08:17 PM (#3148519)
that's an ugly list

It tells you that, like most other consumer products, music sales are driven by 18-35 year-old women.
   127. Crispix Attacks Posted: April 22, 2009 at 08:18 PM (#3148522)
They only nuked it if you narrowly define "Glam Rock." Here are the best selling albums, year by year, in the 1990s. Tell me what impact Nirvana had on any of this crap:

The best-selling album of 1990 was Rhythm Nation 1814, by Janet Jackson.[35]
The best-selling album of 1991 was Mariah Carey, by Mariah Carey.[36]
The best-selling album of 1992 was Ropin' the Wind, by Garth Brooks.[37]
The best-selling album of 1993 was The Bodyguard Soundtrack.[38]
The best-selling album of 1994 was The Sign, by Ace of Base .[39]
The best-selling album of 1995 was Cracked Rear View, by Hootie and the Blowfish.[40]
The best-selling album of 1996 was Jagged Little Pill, by Alanis Morissette.[41]
The best-selling album of 1997 was Spice, by Spice Girls.[42]
The best-selling album of 1998 was Titanic Soundtrack.[43]
The best selling album of 1999 was Millennium, by Backstreet Boys.[44]


Well, none of it was in any way glam rock, at least. No one said Nirvana nuked country music or pop singer divas.
   128. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: April 22, 2009 at 08:19 PM (#3148523)
Craig that is one ugly list and I apologize if my comment forced you to put it together. That said, I'll take every album on that list over any Winger/White Lion album ever made.

But please, don't make me do that.
   129. pv nasby Posted: April 22, 2009 at 08:19 PM (#3148524)
Thompson Twins will always be classic.
   130. Crispix Attacks Posted: April 22, 2009 at 08:20 PM (#3148525)
Audioslave was comprised of arguably the best vocalist (Chris Cornell) at least of the 1980's and '90's; arguably the best guitarist ever (Tom Morello); and two musical experts on bass (Tim Commerford) and drums (Brad Wilk). What's not to like?


Were there any songwriters in the band?
   131. Biff isn't really an apt handle anymore Posted: April 22, 2009 at 08:24 PM (#3148530)
Question for the floor: Favorite Mike Patton album?

I'm probably going to go with Mr. Bungle, Anonymous, or The Director's Cut. Only the first of which has much real singing on it, but oh well.


I know it's pretty cliche, but I have to go with Angel Dust.
   132. Biff isn't really an apt handle anymore Posted: April 22, 2009 at 08:25 PM (#3148531)
Audioslave just did not work at all for me. I listen to their songs and it sounds like Cornell's voice is shot. And there's no way "I Am the Highway" is his best vocal performance. Have you heard the Temple of the Dog album? That is some amazing, amazing stuff.
   133. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: April 22, 2009 at 08:25 PM (#3148532)
isn't it the case that EVERYBODY thinks that the music they were into when they were, oh, 16-21 was the best stuff ever?

Thing is, while I can imagine someone who was born in, say, 1953 thinking this way, I have a hard time imagining someone who was born in 1990 feeling this way.

I feel like there's been a lot of crap the last decade or so, and the stuff that I like, it's either work by more mature artists (people who were around in the early '90s) or it's totally derivative of earlier stuff.

And with that, I kindly invite all of you to get off my lawn.
   134. Biff isn't really an apt handle anymore Posted: April 22, 2009 at 08:29 PM (#3148536)
Looking back at it, they were pretty pretentious, but I still think Tool was pretty amazing. The "Opiate" EP came out in 1992.

"was" pretty amazing? They still are. They're my second favorite band, and Lateralus and Aenima are both among my top 10 albums all time.
   135. Los Angeles ALBERT F. PUJOLS of Anaheim Posted: April 22, 2009 at 08:30 PM (#3148539)
isn't it the case that EVERYBODY thinks that the music they were into when they were, oh, 16-21 was the best stuff ever?
I don't listen to hardly anything I bought during that time. My Depeche Mode, Cure, and Smiths albums have long been banished to the back end of the storeroom. They just don't speak to me anymore.
   136. villageidiom Posted: April 22, 2009 at 08:34 PM (#3148544)
The Verve Pipe - "The Freshmen"
Semisonic - "Closing Time"
Fastball - "The Way"
Third Eye Blind - "Semi-Charmed Life" (and a couple others)
Eve 6 - "Inside Out"
Spin Doctors - "Two Princes"
New Radicals - "You Get What You Give"
Harvey Danger - "Flagpole Sitta"


I find at least half of those to be very irritating songs, especially YGWYG and Closing Time. OTOH, if The Way or Flagpole Sitta is on the radio, I'm keeping it there.

Yes, I still listen to the radio. I'm old.

I would rather have an ipod stitched to my ears which played only Color Me Badd "Classics" than spend thirty seconds listening to Sugar Ray.
When I hear Sugar Ray's "Fly", I always instantly think back to driving across the Franklin Bridge in Tampa Bay with mrsidiom in a rented convertible with the top down in early November 1997, two days after we found out we were going to be parents. We knew this was our last true getaway, and we were enjoying the moment. "Fly" is not a good song, but at that moment it was the perfect song.

Two other songs are like that for me: Don Henley's "The Last Worthless Evening", which came on the radio shortly after my ex-girlfriend (now mrsidiom) and I reconciled in 1990; and Wilson Pickett's "In The Midnight Hour", which came on the radio around 10pm after my wife had been through 15 hours of labor (of an eventual 25 hours) with our first child. I can't hear those songs without thinking of those moments.
   137. Lassus: Posted: April 22, 2009 at 08:38 PM (#3148550)
I feel like there's been a lot of crap the last decade or so, and the stuff that I like, it's either work by more mature artists (people who were around in the early '90s) or it's totally derivative of earlier stuff.

Cloud Cult
M83
###### Up
Underoath
Tim Hecker

etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. get off MY lawn!


If I could eradicate one radio genre for all eternity, it would be classic rock. Without even blinking.
   138. villageidiom Posted: April 22, 2009 at 08:41 PM (#3148554)
Thing is, while I can imagine someone who was born in, say, 1953 thinking this way, I have a hard time imagining someone who was born in 1990 feeling this way.

I feel like there's been a lot of crap the last decade or so, and the stuff that I like, it's either work by more mature artists (people who were around in the early '90s) or it's totally derivative of earlier stuff.
Anyone born in 1990 won't know what it's derivative of, and thus will find it original and creative.
   139. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: April 22, 2009 at 08:42 PM (#3148555)
Didn't Cloud Cult do a commercial for an auto insurance company?

I don't recognize any of those other names.
   140. Biff isn't really an apt handle anymore Posted: April 22, 2009 at 08:43 PM (#3148557)
I feel like there's been a lot of crap the last decade or so, and the stuff that I like, it's either work by more mature artists (people who were around in the early '90s) or it's totally derivative of earlier stuff.

And with that, I kindly invite all of you to get off my lawn.


And here's where I go into my standard spiel of not letting what's mainstream dictate whether a musical era is good or not. Well...not really a spiel, just that sentence.
   141. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: April 22, 2009 at 08:43 PM (#3148558)
Thing is, while I can imagine someone who was born in, say, 1953 thinking this way, I have a hard time imagining someone who was born in 1990 feeling this way.

Hmm -- seeing that I was born only two years before 1990, I'm going to have to take issue with that. I guess it depends on tastes, though -- the 90s were kickass if you were into hip-hop. I can't say I know a whole lot about the early-90s music scene (being 10 years old or less and all) but I caught the end of the Notorious B.I.G. and Tupac's stuff and there was a whole lot of good there. As I've gotten older I've realized just how sweet those early-90s were -- Wu-Tang and their solo acts (particularly GZA -- Liquid Swordz is one of my favorite albums, only behind 36 Chambers), NWA, Eric B and Rakim (I know I'm fusing late 80s and early 90s here -- I apologize for that)...

And if this is the designated music thread, I'm pretty pumped about Lollapalooza's lineup. I'm not crazy about any of the headliners but the 'undercard' is outstanding -- Arctic Monkeys, TV on the Radio, Deerhunter, Kaiser Chiefs, Los Campesinos, Ben Folds... suffice it to say the $190 decision is an easy one this year.

Edited to clarify some things.
   142. dingo powered war machine (CoB) Posted: April 22, 2009 at 08:43 PM (#3148559)
Audioslave just did not work at all for me. I listen to their songs and it sounds like Cornell's voice is shot. And there's no way "I Am the Highway" is his best vocal performance. Have you heard the Temple of the Dog album? That is some amazing, amazing stuff.


ding, ding, ding.

Tried to find the studio version of "Say Hello 2 Heaven" on youtube to post in response, but it's all crappy live versions (soundwise).

That's a hell of an album and often overlooked.
   143. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: April 22, 2009 at 08:48 PM (#3148568)
vi- Next time you have a seminal moment in your life, put on some ####### Zeppelin.

Great story, nonetheless. I figured that Sugar Ray wasn't completely useless, now I have proof. I also like Madonna's "Hollywood" for a similar set of reasons, but I'd never admit it.
   144. Lassus: Posted: April 22, 2009 at 08:49 PM (#3148569)
Ben Folds

I have NEVER liked Ben Folds, and he was such a darling in the late 90's. I definitely like the Arctic Monkeys, though.

I'll also add Jakobinarina and The Constantines to new things out that I like.
   145. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: April 22, 2009 at 08:50 PM (#3148575)
And here's where I go into my standard spiel of not letting what's mainstream dictate whether a musical era is good or not. Well...not really a spiel, just that sentence.

Sure, I'll admit that I haven't done a ton of research - it's more just a feel for the zeitgeist. But if there's good music out there nowadays, it sure feels like it's hidden. When we were kids, we could hear good stuff even on MTV, if we knew when to turn it on (here's where people link to websites that kids frequent these days).

I miss 120 minutes. Or maybe I just miss my youth. Either one.
   146. Alex meets the threshold for granular review Posted: April 22, 2009 at 08:50 PM (#3148576)
The early 90s were gold for rap fans. Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg, 2Pac, Nas, Wu-Tang, A Tribe Called Quest, Public Enemy, Gang Starr, EPMD, Brand Nubian, Ice Cube, Kool G Rap, and so on so forth.
   147. Harry Balsagne's transparent jealousy Posted: April 22, 2009 at 08:51 PM (#3148578)
the first concert I ever saw was Paula Abdul and Color Me Badd in 1992. During the performance of 'Opposites Attract', a giant foam cat came out and performed the song with Paula

This is one of the best things ever written. Even better would be if the crowd collectively lost their sh!t when the cat came out.


As far as I remember, the crowd was more or less losing their sh*t throughout the whole concert, but I remember even at 12 thinking she had jumped the shark.

Given Paula's lack of lucidity these days, the idea of her singing a duet with a giant cat in sunglasses strikes me as something that might be fairly normal to her.

I still find her wicked hot, in spite of, or possibly compounded by, her batsh*t craziness.
   148. Lassus: Posted: April 22, 2009 at 08:54 PM (#3148581)
I miss 120 minutes. Or maybe I just miss my youth. Either one.

I think, maybe, if I'm lucky, the 120 Minutes holy grail of clicking the remote whenever we saw a video that we liked is still on those two VHS-120s in a box somewhere.
   149. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: April 22, 2009 at 08:55 PM (#3148583)
The early 90s were gold for rap fans. Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg, 2Pac, Nas, Wu-Tang, A Tribe Called Quest, Public Enemy, Gang Starr, EPMD, Brand Nubian, Ice Cube, Kool G Rap, and so on so forth.

The Beastie Boys put out some good stuff around this time, too - I want to say that "Paul's Boutique" was '89, and "Check Your Head" '93.

I'm not a rap fan by any stretch of the imagination, and even I loved "Fear of a Black Planet". Was never a fan of NWA and their spinoffs, though.
   150. Alex meets the threshold for granular review Posted: April 22, 2009 at 08:58 PM (#3148586)
Oof, yeah, forgot about the Beasties. Don't know how either, I'm a massive fan.
   151. Lassus: Posted: April 22, 2009 at 09:00 PM (#3148588)
I'd definitely mark "Paul's Boutique" as their high point, a really great album.
   152. Biff isn't really an apt handle anymore Posted: April 22, 2009 at 09:00 PM (#3148589)
Sure, I'll admit that I haven't done a ton of research - it's more just a feel for the zeitgeist. But if there's good music out there nowadays, it sure feels like it's hidden.

I can't argue with that. I remember about 5-6 years ago, at the end of high school and beginning of college, spending most of my time digging around on music message boards and such to find new bands. I kind of regret that I don't do that anymore. I've already fallen into the mode of only checking out new releases from artists I already know I like, and only occasionally happening to find a new band to listen to.
   153. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: April 22, 2009 at 09:02 PM (#3148590)
Definitely agree on the early 90's being golden for hip-hop fans, especially for the groups that were really experimenting. (My kingdom for another good X-Clan album.)

In a lot of ways I see the current rap world as much like the rock world pre-91. A bunch of glammers babbling on about champagne and the like. I can't wait to see what "Nirvanas" the current rap era. I've always wanted hip-hop to really embrace jazz and musicianship a bit more, but I suspect it will be interesting whichever way it goes.
   154. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: April 22, 2009 at 09:03 PM (#3148591)
I'd definitely mark "Paul's Boutique" as their high point, a really great album.


agree, things have gotten progressively worse since then for them.
   155. Obama Bomaye Posted: April 22, 2009 at 09:06 PM (#3148593)
(My kingdom for another good X-Clan album.)

Did you know about Dark Sun Riders? (which personally I didn't think was good, but for some reason I never got that into X-Clan either)
   156. Alex meets the threshold for granular review Posted: April 22, 2009 at 09:07 PM (#3148594)
Check Your Head does everything Paul's Boutique does, better.
   157. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: April 22, 2009 at 09:08 PM (#3148597)
rap today is absolutely horrible compared to the early 90's. I agree that it's comparable to glam rock in the late 80's.
   158. Craig Calcaterra Posted: April 22, 2009 at 09:14 PM (#3148600)
Check Your Head does everything Paul's Boutique does, better.


Actually, Check Your Head did radically different things than Paul Boutique did. One was sample-heavy groove-fest, the other was a (sorta) DIY organic thing. I can see comparing Check Your Head and Ill Communication, but Paul's Boutique was sui generis.
   159. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: April 22, 2009 at 09:15 PM (#3148604)
rap today is absolutely horrible compared to the early 90's. I agree that it's comparable to glam rock in the late 80's.
I disagree. We've got Tip in his prime, Li'l Wayne crazying out all over the place, Nas and Jay-Z still performing at a high level - the early to mid-90s were undoubtedly a period of incredible artistic productivity within hip-hop, and I don't see anything going on today that compares, but this isn't a wasteland.

A wasteland is rock radio, pretty much without a break from 1993 to the present.
   160. Lassus: Posted: April 22, 2009 at 09:18 PM (#3148609)
Calcaterra bringin' the knowledge!
   161. Esoteric Posted: April 22, 2009 at 09:19 PM (#3148611)
Well, this thread has already gotten too involved for me to stake my claim of ownership to it the way I ought to, but I will throw out this nugget: having finally bothered to listen to Pearl Jam's discography after years of snootily dismissing them, I am surprised and a bit embarrassed to acknowledge that they're a pretty great band. Vitalogy, at the very least, is one hell of an album, with "Better Man," "Spin The Black Circle," "Not For You" and "Corduroy."

Don't know whatever it is they're doing these days, but those albums up through Yield...surprisingly not bad from a melodic point of view. Not exactly Pavement either, if you know what I mean, but then what is?
   162. Biff isn't really an apt handle anymore Posted: April 22, 2009 at 09:20 PM (#3148613)
Vitalogy, at the very least, is one hell of an album, with "Better Man," "Spin The Black Circle," "Not For You" and "Corduroy."

My favorite from that album is actually the lesser-known "Nothingman".
   163. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: April 22, 2009 at 09:20 PM (#3148615)
Did you know about Dark Sun Riders?

Yeah, and it's not bad- but (wait for it) it's not as good as the early stuff.
   164. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: April 22, 2009 at 09:20 PM (#3148614)
I disagree. We've got Tip in his prime, Li'l Wayne crazying out all over the place, Nas and Jay-Z still performing at a high level - the early to mid-90s were undoubtedly a period of incredible artistic productivity within hip-hop, and I don't see anything going on today that compares, but this isn't a wasteland.

I must admit that I haven't followed rap very closely for the last few years, so there's more than a little "get off my lawn" in my comment. Still, I stand by my somewhat uninformed and ignorant statement.
   165. Esoteric Posted: April 22, 2009 at 09:21 PM (#3148617)
Oh, and the best artist of the 1990s is clearly Pavement. I don't know how anyone on earth could disagree with this: you're either insane or ignorant if you do, and I CAST THEE OUT.

Radiohead owns the 2000s in a similar fashion (their work didn't really reach its peak until Kid A and beyond). Similarly, there's just not much room for arguing this point. I would appreciate it if you all quietly fell in line, thank you very much.
   166. Greg (U)K Posted: April 22, 2009 at 09:21 PM (#3148618)
Living through that time period as a young person, it seems that most every young lady they tried to market to young men as being attractive were very boyish looking,

Pfft, this HARDLY describes the curvy Winona Ryder!
   167. Biff isn't really an apt handle anymore Posted: April 22, 2009 at 09:33 PM (#3148628)
Radiohead owns the 2000s in a similar fashion (their work didn't really reach its peak until Kid A and beyond). Similarly, there's just not much room for arguing this point. I would appreciate it if you all quietly fell in line, thank you very much.

Radiohead's best CDs were released in the 1990s.

Porcupine Tree is the best band of the 2000s.
   168. Harry Balsagne's transparent jealousy Posted: April 22, 2009 at 09:34 PM (#3148631)
Pfft, this HARDLY describes the curvy Winona Ryder!


Also 90s hot but not boyish:

Marissa Tomei
Gillian Anderson
Claudia Schiffer
Madonna
Janet Jackson
Christina Applegate
Michelle Pfieffer
Cindy Crawford
Sherilyn Fenn
   169. Harry Balsagne's transparent jealousy Posted: April 22, 2009 at 09:43 PM (#3148647)
Radiohead's best CDs were released in the 1990s.


Agreed. Though Kid A and Amnesiac are better than any other non-Radiohead album made in the 2000s, OK Computer beats all.
   170. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn) Posted: April 22, 2009 at 09:48 PM (#3148656)
Agreed. Though Kid A and Amnesiac are better than any other non-Radiohead album made in the 2000s, OK Computer beats all.

The Bends is my favorite Radiohead album. I love OK Computer, but it felt a little concept-y for me at times. With that said, "Let Down" is probably my favorite Radiohead song. I haven't listened to Kid A enough to give it a fair opinion.
   171. tyler Posted: April 22, 2009 at 09:52 PM (#3148659)
I disagree. We've got Tip in his prime, Li'l Wayne crazying out all over the place, Nas and Jay-Z still performing at a high level - the early to mid-90s were undoubtedly a period of incredible artistic productivity within hip-hop, and I don't see anything going on today that compares, but this isn't a wasteland.


I'd also strongly put in Lupe Fiasco. I'm not even a huge hip-hop fan, but The Cool is probably my album of 2008. Kanye should also be in there, and, if you want to broaden your definition of the genre, M.I.A. and Santogold.

Living through that time period as a young person, it seems that most every young lady they tried to market to young men as being attractive were very boyish looking,


Can't believe no one's thrown out Mayday

And yes, Maynard Keenan is fantastic.
   172. Esoteric Posted: April 22, 2009 at 09:52 PM (#3148660)
With that said, "Let Down" is probably my favorite Radiohead song.
They were THIS CLOSE to leaving that song off the album altogether. Apparently several members of the band hate it. I think it's one of their finest songs, myself.

But seriously now: the music on The Bends and OK Computer, while objectively excellent, simply shrivels in comparison to what they've done since. Kid A and In Rainbows are their greatest, most subtle work, Hail To The Thief is not far behind (stupid title notwithstanding), and even the flawed Amnesiac contains several of their signature songs like "Pyramid Song," "Like Spinning Plates," "You And Whose Army?" and "Life In A Glasshouse." And jesus, are you familiar with the B-sides from the Kid A/Amnesiac era? An album's worth of top-shelf material hidden away there as well. Taken together, it makes their pre-2000 work just seem BANAL and boring my comparison.
   173. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: April 22, 2009 at 09:54 PM (#3148662)
I'd also strongly put in Lupe Fiasco. I'm not even a huge hip-hop fan, but The Cool is probably my album of 2008. Kanye should also be in there, and, if you want to broaden your definition of the genre, M.I.A. and Santogold.
Absolutely, on all counts. And I don't know how you could define hip-hop in such a way that M.I.A. falls outside its bounds - I was just trying to name a couple people, but it was pretty dumb of me not to include Kanye and M.I.A.
   174. Biff isn't really an apt handle anymore Posted: April 22, 2009 at 09:55 PM (#3148665)
Funny, because I find Kid A/Amnesiac etc. banal and boring. Opinions are fun!
   175. tyler Posted: April 22, 2009 at 10:01 PM (#3148666)
I don't know how you could define hip-hop in such a way that M.I.A. falls outside its bounds


I agree, and yet I feel like there's definitely a lot of resistance from certain quarters to including her.

Oh, and re: early 90's music being gone - 99% true, but I love what Silversun Pickups is doing. Sure it's derivative, but it's done really, really well.
   176. Esoteric Posted: April 22, 2009 at 10:05 PM (#3148675)
Oh, and re R.E.M.:

Their best album will always be Murmur, and their most interesting period will always be the early one from Chronic Town to Reckoning, but I give them credit for impressively reinventing themselves with Automatic For The People. There's only one terrible song on that album ("Ignoreland" - it's not the politics I object to, it's the chintzy arrangement and terrible mood-shattering out-of-place-ness), and the rest is beautiful, hauntingly mature material. "Sweetness Follows" and "Find The River" might actually be their two greatest songs, or at least close. And "Sidewinder" and "Man On The Moon" are two of those "popular hits" that miraculously never get old or annoying.

Their last great work was Up -- a powerful response to the pressure of coming up with something relevant after Berry's departure shook the group up -- but they've been godawful since then.
   177. Esoteric Posted: April 22, 2009 at 10:07 PM (#3148677)
Funny, because I find Kid A/Amnesiac etc. banal and boring. Opinions are fun!
Not when they're wrong! I demand complete agreement!
   178. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: April 22, 2009 at 10:18 PM (#3148683)
I agree, and yet I feel like there's definitely a lot of resistance from certain quarters to including her.
Yeah. I mean, I know the argument. Hip-hop, like any other form, has always had its traditionalists, its old-line folks trying to demarcate what is hip-hop and what isn't, even though almost everyone one of those traditionalists pushed the boundaries of the genre when they were younger.

What has made hip-hop the most important, and the defining art form of the millenial age, is its continual expansion - the genre born when an African-American block party tradition met Jamaican DJs and Hispanic dances and expanded almost immediately to various culturally and artistically hybrid settings, which developed a tradition of sampling in which the whole history of recorded music became a part of hip-hop's language, is going to be defined by its expansion and its continual pushing at boundaries. M.I.A., for me, is one of the truest hip-hop artists working today.
   179. Biff isn't really an apt handle anymore Posted: April 22, 2009 at 10:21 PM (#3148686)
Oh, and re: early 90's music being gone - 99% true, but I love what Silversun Pickups is doing. Sure it's derivative, but it's done really, really well.

I really like the Silversun Pickups. Yeah, pretty derivative of the Smashing Pumpkins, but still quite good.
   180. Maury Brown Posted: April 22, 2009 at 10:35 PM (#3148693)
'90s albums for me:

Undertow - Tool
Apple - Mother Love Bone
Dookie - Green Day
Temple of the Dog
Bad Motor Finger - Soundgarden
NIN - Broken
Dirt - AIC
Every track by Rage Against the Machine
   181. robinred Posted: April 22, 2009 at 10:39 PM (#3148696)
I really like the Silversun Pickups


Me too.
   182. Esoteric Posted: April 22, 2009 at 10:43 PM (#3148700)
Best '90s albums for me:

Loveless - My Bloody Valentine
Slanted & Enchanted - Pavement
Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain - Pavement
OK Computer - Radiohead
Vitalogy - Pearl Jam
Songs From Northern Britain - Teenage Fanclub
Blur - Blur
Sci-Fi Lullabies - Suede

(As you might have guessed, I'm quite the Anglophile)
   183. Crashburn Alley Posted: April 22, 2009 at 10:58 PM (#3148712)
Silversun Pickups FTW
   184. Esoteric Posted: April 22, 2009 at 11:11 PM (#3148722)
Silver Jews >>>> Silversun Pickups.
   185. Biff isn't really an apt handle anymore Posted: April 22, 2009 at 11:16 PM (#3148728)
'90s albums for me:

Undertow - Tool


Heh, you might be just about the only person in the world taking Undertow over Aenima. My favorite 90's albums in no particular order:

Tool - Aenima
Incubus - S.C.I.E.N.C.E.
Porcupine Tree - Stupid Dream
Radiohead - OK Computer
Pearl Jam - Vitalogy
Faith No More - Angel Dust
Smashing Pumpkins - Siamese Dream
Anathema - Judgement
Weezer - Blue Album (just barely over Pinkerton)
Dream Theater - Scenes from a Memory
   186. gef the talking mongoose Posted: April 22, 2009 at 11:22 PM (#3148738)
Early '90s? Tons of good releases. Stuff just off the top of my head that I'm pretty sure hasn't been mentioned ...

Billy Bragg -- Don't Try This at Home (by far his most consistently good LP)

Chumbawamba -- Shhhh (ditto for Jesus H Christ, the album that Shhhh would've been if they hadn't run into legal trouble over all the samples)

House of Love -- s/t (butterfly cover) (if the Stone Roses had been everything they were supposed to be, they would've been the House of Love, at least as manifested on this album)

KMFDM -- whatever half-dozen or so albums they put out during the era, because back then they were averaging more than one a year, or so it seems in retrospect

Mekons -- Curse of the Mekons (quite possibly the best album ever by a surpassingly brilliant band), I (heart) Mekons

Pogues -- Waiting for Herb (turns out these guys were capable of great pop after that toothless lush went off & crawled all the way into his bottle, or whatever the hell he was off doing at the time)

Wir -- The 3rd Letter (vastly better than it has any right to be)

Sisters of Mercy -- Vision Thing

Pegboy -- Strong Reaction

My Life with the Thrill Kill Kult -- Confessions of a Knife

Lemonheads -- It's a Shame About Ray

The Fall -- Infotainment Scan, Middle Class Revolt, Code: Selfish

Jazz Butcher -- Cult of the Basement

Buzzcocks -- Trade Test Transmission

Jack Frost -- s/t

Pulp -- His 'n' Hers


Again, those are all completely off the top of my head & by really obvious (to me, anyway ...) bands. I have to assume that I'm overlooking at least a couple of fine-to-excellent LPs by more obscure acts for every one of those.
   187. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn) Posted: April 22, 2009 at 11:27 PM (#3148747)
Albums I couldn't stop listening to in high school (1987-1990):

Hootenanny, The Replacements (still listen to it)
Tim, The Replacements (wore it out permanently)
Murmur, REM (wore it out permanently)
The Joshua Tree, U2 (wore it out permanently)
Electric, The Cult (wore it out permanently)
Surfer Rosa/Come On Pilgrim, The Pixies (still listen to it)
Damaged, Black Flag (still listen to it)
Every Dog Has His Day, Let's Active (don't like it anymore)
Vs., Mission of Burma (can't find it on Itunes, but would love to)
   188. Harry Balsagne's transparent jealousy Posted: April 22, 2009 at 11:42 PM (#3148777)
isn't it the case that EVERYBODY thinks that the music they were into when they were, oh, 16-21 was the best stuff ever?

Not for me. I listened to this stuff when I was in junior high, and then got into "classic rock" and jazz in highschool. As a teenage I could never really ignore contemporary music, and so had an opinion on it. But I stopped buying what was on the radio in about 1994.
   189. mike f Posted: April 23, 2009 at 12:23 AM (#3148830)
isn't it the case that EVERYBODY thinks that the music they were into when they were, oh, 16-21 was the best stuff ever?
Absolutely. Paul's Boutique, OK Computer, and The Bends. Probably all still in my top 10. I wish I had found out about Built to Spill back around Perfect From Now On, but I was a little too young.
   190. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: April 23, 2009 at 12:25 AM (#3148833)
rap today is absolutely horrible compared to the early 90's. I agree that it's comparable to glam rock in the late 80's.

I disagree. We've got Tip in his prime, Li'l Wayne crazying out all over the place, Nas and Jay-Z still performing at a high level - the early to mid-90s were undoubtedly a period of incredible artistic productivity within hip-hop, and I don't see anything going on today that compares, but this isn't a wasteland.

Yup, early-to-mid-90s rap was amazing as long as you ignore the fact that a lot of what was popular on the radio was Vanilla Ice and stuff like that.

There's a tremendous amount of great hip-hop that's been produced over the last decade, although most of it hasn't made it into the mainstream. Talib Kweli, Mos Def, the Roots, Slum Village, Jurassic 5, Blackalicious, Lyrics Born, Strange Fruit Project, k-os, Lupe Fiasco, most of the stuff that's been put out by Def Jux, Rhymesayers, Justus League, etc. It's obviously not for everyone, but if you like hip hop the only reason you can't find something you like today is that you haven't really looked.

The same thing can probably be said for any musical genre. When I was growing up, the only music we really had access to was what they played on the radio and what they sold at the local Sam Goody. Now, all you need is an internet connection and a little bit of time.

</rant>
   191. Drexl Spivey Posted: April 23, 2009 at 12:27 AM (#3148837)
"I dig grunge (except Pearl Jam and Alice In Chains)"

This is like saying "I like women (except for their boobs and vaginas).
   192. Der_K is getting more dogmatic. Posted: April 23, 2009 at 12:28 AM (#3148839)
Also, people in this thread are drastically misusing the phrase "glam rock"

You ain't kidding. Glam rock was fine anyhow.
M.I.A., for me, is one of the truest hip-hop artists working today.

Putting aside what "truest" means, I agree. Anyhoo, there's plenty of solid hip-hop/rap out there (I tend to favor the backpack crowd), it just tends not to get radio airplay... kinda like the top rock artists, etc...
Dave, here's your Coke.
   193. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: April 23, 2009 at 12:36 AM (#3148856)
And by the way, yes to Chris Cornell. Part of this is the "music that peaked when you were 15" phenomenom, but those Soundgarden albums never get old for me. Also yes to "Automatic for the People", especially "Drive".
   194. bumpis hound Posted: April 23, 2009 at 12:40 AM (#3148862)
Beasties and Pearl Jam are headlining the SF Outside Lands fest this Aug (the same one that Radiohead played). Dave Matthews is also headlining. FYI.
   195. Don't want the truth; just wanna see some dingers Posted: April 23, 2009 at 12:50 AM (#3148872)
A couple of things:

I like "Vs" better than "Ten" or "Vitalogy". "Rear View Mirror", "Leash", and "Elderly Woman" are amazing. "Glorified G", "Dissident" and "Daughter" are all great.

Sugar Ray's "Every Morning" and Lit's "My Own worst Enemy" are two of the catchiest songs of my lifetime, in that they get stuck in my head big time.
   196. Chip Posted: April 23, 2009 at 12:56 AM (#3148886)
Their best album will always be Murmur, and their most interesting period will always be the early one from Chronic Town to Reckoning


Murmur will always have a special place in my collection, but the album from their I.R.S. years that I like the most is Life's Rich Pageant.
   197. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 23, 2009 at 01:22 AM (#3148939)
No other band of this decade is nearly as cool as Hazmat Modine.

There, I said it.
   198. gef the talking mongoose Posted: April 23, 2009 at 01:24 AM (#3148941)
Also, people in this thread are drastically misusing the phrase "glam rock", which has nothing to do with the hair metal that Nirvana was a response to.


Jesus, yes. Marc Bolan, RIP.
   199. Lassus: Posted: April 23, 2009 at 03:58 AM (#3149083)
90's albums my roommate wanted to destroy for me overplaying them:

Jellyfish - Bellybutton & Spilt Milk
Redd Kross - Third Eye & Phaseshifter & 2500 Redd Kross Fans Can't be Wrong
Tool - Aenima
Mike Watt - Ballhog or Tugboat
Prince - Graffiti Bridge & the Gold Experience
Trip Shakespeare - Lulu
Everclear - Sparkle and Fade
Smashing Pumpkins - Gish & Siamese Dream
Sugar - (everything)
Fishbone - Reality of my Surroundings
Material Issue - Freak City Soundtrack
Vernon Reid - Mistaken Identity
Semisonic - Great Divide
Slayer - Decade of Aggression
Sunny Day Real Estate - The Rising Tide
Team Dresch - Personal Best
Mr. Bungle - Mr. Bungle
Oranger - Doorway to Norway
Oingo Boingo - Farewell Concert
Poster Children - RTFM
Terminator X and the Godfathers of Threatt
They Might be Giants - Factory Showroom
Anthrax - Attack of the Killer B's
D-Generation - D-Generation
Fountains of Wayne - Fountains of Wayne & Utopia Parkway
Pavement - Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain
Nine Inch Nails - The Fragile
   200. Esoteric Posted: April 23, 2009 at 04:21 AM (#3149090)
Jesus, yes. Marc Bolan, RIP.
Completely correct. Glam-rock was an exclusively British phenomenon encompassing artists like Bolan/T-Rex, early Bowie, Slade, late Mott The Hoople, etc. It sure as hell isn't about '80s hair metal.
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