So Barry was always an @sshole. <sarcasm>Hard to believe.</sarcasm>

Look up jagoff in the urban slang dictionary and there's a picture of Barry.

Wasn't he almost thrown off the team at ASU?

Regarding Bonilla and respect, according to several accounts, the only guys Barry respected were other players who refused to take his ####.

Barry wasn't the kind of jerk who was nice to people only when he needed something from them. As far as I could tell, Barry was pretty much an ass to everybody all the time. ... Most of the players had as little to do with him as possible. ... Instead of berating me directly or just ignoring me, Barry would sometimes talk about me like I wasn't there."

I know two people who were in Barry's graduating class at Serra High School in 1982. Both (separately) said he was "the biggest a-hole I ever met." One of them later had a cup of coffee in the majors.

The thing that most people can't figure out about Barry Bonds (and as a writer interested in character it fascinates me, too) is how he turned out to be such a colossal knob. Barry's father had an outstanding professional baseball career. Barry grew up in a good home, as far as anyone can tell. ... It seems like it should be pretty easy for him to not be entirely consumed by his own hate.

It's possible, with an alcoholic father, it wasn't such a great household to grow up in.

He is probably the meanest person I've ever met...

Apparently many people who know Barry share this view. I remain a Barry Bonds fan, as far as Barry the baseball player goes. He's the best player I ever saw. I can't help but be influenced in my thoughts on his character by all the negative things so many people who've known him personally have said about him. However, I don't think we (as fans or other outsiders) ever really know celebrities, and as such, I don't think it's sensible to admire any celebrities beyond their performance on the field (or TV screen), even ones who put on a far better face to the outside world.

And yet Barry not only has chosen to make his own life impossible, he's thrown away tens of millions--maybe hundreds of millions--on lost endorsements simply because he never passes on an opportunity to demonstrate to anyone, big or small, that he doesn't give a damn about them.

But he's made plenty of dough doing things his way. I respect the choice of being one's self over selling one's self. (Now, the fact that one's self isn't such a good fellow isn't so good.)

Also, I agree with Rich. I wouldn't assume that Barry had a very good family life as a kid. In addition to the alcoholism, his father was traveling a lot and there was probably a lot of pressure on Barry to live up to his father's accomplishments.

I know two people who were in Barry's graduating class at Serra High School in 1982. Both (separately) said he was "the biggest a-hole I ever met." One of them later had a cup of coffee in the majors.

Joe Kmak, presumably.

I know two people who were in Barry's graduating class at Serra High School in 1982. Both (separately) said he was "the biggest a-hole I ever met." One of them later had a cup of coffee in the majors.

Serra Alum who played pro baseball

That's pretty amazing the talent that was at that school for a few years. In about four years, they had four future major leaguers play ball there, and two other guys that played minor league ball. And one of those guys would turn out to be the greatest home run hitter ever, while another would become one of the more overhyped players of his generation.

I'm guessing its Joe Kmak who thinks Barry is a big a-hole.

Plus um the greatest quarterback and impregnator of supermodels ever.

Thanks for posting this. Life has a way of working itself out, so whatever will happen to Bonds (and those who allowed it) won't give me an ulcer. The whole thing is a shame, but hey, it's just baseball!

I think Rich and Darren make good points here. Also, Bonds seems to often be a dick to people who want something from him and are associated with PR and the media, even if it is for a good reason and not much to ask.

OTOH, being mean to people you can get away with being mean to just for the hell of it is IMO a really bad character trait, and Bonds apparently has done a lot of that.

"Joe Kmak, presumably."

Yes. I'm not a friend of Joe's. I don't want to make it sound like I was his confidant. I knew him at UCSB. My roommate, who pitched for the Gauchos (and later in the Giants' system), was a friend of his.

"That's pretty amazing the talent that was at that school for a few years."

I don't know if Serra recruits athletes. I have been told -- and on the face of it, it seems likely -- that the reason De La Salle (another powerhouse Catholic school in the Bay Area) has had such a great football program for so many years, beyond the talents of the coach, is that they have recruited players to their school. Perhaps Serra did that, back in the day, for baseball? (BTW, Lynn Swan went to Serra, too. As did Merv Griffin.)

As did Merv Griffin.)

So the richest entertainer from the school is not a jock.

Both (separately) said he was "the biggest a-hole I ever met."

Guess they never introduced their wives to Leo Durocher.

I, too, was surprised by the author's being unsure about why Barry Bonds "turned out to be such a colossal knob." Not that we can say anything for sure about even those we know well, but it surely didn't help to watch his father's struggles with the media, fans, and alcohol; without trying to excuse any particular behavior, it's not hard for me to imagine such early experiences embittering a person.

When I read Love Me, Hate Me, the portrayal of Barry's home life was terrible. For most of the first third of the book I was like, "No wonder he's so messed up." Then the rest of the book, when he behaves as the worst kind of sociopath, example after example of wings-off-flies cruelty to people far less powerful, I thought "Nope, he's mostly just a dick."

I don't know if Serra recruits athletes. I have been told -- and on the face of it, it seems likely -- that the reason De La Salle (another powerhouse Catholic school in the Bay Area) has had such a great football program for so many years, beyond the talents of the coach, is that they have recruited players to their school. Perhaps Serra did that, back in the day, for baseball? (BTW, Lynn Swan went to Serra, too. As did Merv Griffin.)

Catholic schools have been recruiting for years. I grew up in so-cal in the 70's and Mater Dei high always had a great basketball team because they recruited. It was pretty funny to go there for games as the only 3 African-American kids in the entire school were the 3 best players on the basketball team.

Now as a parent I'd never knock anyone for trying to get their kid the best education possible, but its clearly obvious that these schools recruit. And yes, De La Salle does recruit, I remember reading an article about in the SF chronicle way back in the early 80's

10. The whole thing is a shame, but hey, it's just baseball!

I can't tell if you're being ironic or not. The article, and to some extent this comment, get at what troubles me about this whole thing. I wished more people shared the author's view that "I [Mr. Guilfoile] can't imagine what satisfaction it would give me to know he's in prison." Whether or not Barry Bonds acted like a jerk to media &/or fans, whether or not Barry Bonds "defiled baseball", these should have nothing to do with how we feel about possibly sending a man--a man with kids, no less--to prison.

15. Guess they never introduced their wives to Leo Durocher.

Heh.

If a person broke the law and caused vast amounts of people distress what exactly is wrong about wanting to punish that man? Okay he has kids but he chose to break the law, he wasn't forced to break the law. He runs the risk of jail time now because he chose that path.

Why are people not allowed to be happy if a smug SOB of a criminal finally had to pay the price for his deeds? If anything he should have his kids taken away from him, if it's legal of course.

19:

I wished more people shared the author's view that "I [Mr. Guilfoile] can't imagine what satisfaction it would give me to know he's in prison."

What I was implying was that I'm in agreement with the author. I'm more sad for the game then angry at Bonds. It's not Bonds' character that bothers me; I'm sure there are plenty of "knobs" in the game who are lesser players. So it's more that Selig and the media let us down, not that somebody, regardless of his character, broke a record that Aaron had, and still has in my mind.

I don't know if Serra recruits athletes. I have been told -- and on the face of it, it seems likely -- that the reason De La Salle (another powerhouse Catholic school in the Bay Area) has had such a great football program for so many years, beyond the talents of the coach, is that they have recruited players to their school. Perhaps Serra did that, back in the day, for baseball? (BTW, Lynn Swan went to Serra, too. As did Merv Griffin.)

WCAL schools (I didn't go to Serra, but I went to another one which won a state championship in basketball when I was there) definitely recruit.

Why are people not allowed to be happy if a smug SOB of a criminal finally had to pay the price for his deeds?


My point was that people are conflating their feelings about how

A) Bonds is a jerk,
which is not criminal in itself and ought not be punished by the criminal justice system, and
B) Bonds is a criminal.

I don't think that B) alone can account for the many highly "happy" reactions to the Bonds indictment. And I don't think people should ever be "happy" to see the justice system working in such an objectionable manner as it has in this case.

In the context of the article, I think "I can't imagine what satisfaction it would give me to know he's in prison," was a response to A) rather than B).

As I said above

Whether or not Barry Bonds acted like a jerk to media &/or fans, whether or not Barry Bonds "defiled baseball", these should have nothing to do with how we feel about possibly sending a man--a man with kids, no less--to prison.

Okay he has kids but he chose to break the law, he wasn't forced to break the law.

I wasn't saying we should never send a guy with kids to jail; I was saying we shouldn't let feelings about the guy which are unrelated to the case affect how we think about the guy's potential imprisonment.

(EDIT: Forgot to paste one of the lines I was responding to)

The comedian Steve Martin also refuses to sign his name. He carries around business cards which read something like "This card certifies that you have just had a personal encounter with me, Steve Martin, and that you found me warm and witty," which he hands out to autograph hounds in lieu of complying with their requests.

I think that's very amusing. But it could effortlessly be spun as total dickishness if someone had an preexisting axe to grind.

Private high schools don't have to be Catholic to recruit; rock-ribbed Prot schools recruit too.

For that matter, so do public schools.

Nevertheless if celebrity is currency in America, writer fame surely has the lowest street value.

Back in the late '80s, I was wandering through a mall in suburban Chicago. I passed a book store (remember those?) and saw an author sitting in the window at a desk. I did a double take; it totally looked like Saul Bellow. There was absolutely nobody in line. Sure enough it was. I rushed in, bought a book, and asked him to sign it. Then I did something I am not totally proud of, but how often do you get a chance to meet a Nobel laureate? I asked if I could shake his hand; he graciously did so.

A few years later I was in the same mall passing the same bookstore. There was a line a hundred people long. I was wondering who the frig would be in a bookstore that so many folks would want to meet: Stephen King? Dave Barry? Cindy Crawford? Nope, nope, and (sadly) nopers. It was John Inman. Yup, the actor who played the fruity little floorwalker on the lowbrow Britcom "Are You Being Served?".

America.

Private high schools don't have to be Catholic to recruit; rock-ribbed Prot schools recruit too. For that matter, so do public schools.

Well, A) there aren't nearly as many Proddy/evangelical as Catholic, and B) it's one helluva lot easier to recruit when you're a private. It's used to burn me up that private schools got classed the same as public when it came to state playoffs in football and basketball, despite having a higher concentration of athletes and getting much of the pick of the litter. Illinois has done some to rectify this, but it's still unfair to the publics, who for the extremely large part have to settle for who's in their districts that the privates don't pick up.

I think that's very amusing. But it could effortlessly be spun as total dickishness if someone had an preexisting axe to grind.

If Bonds had politely told the guy, "I'm never signing any autographs," then you might have a parallel.

If Bonds had politely told the guy, "I'm never signing any autographs," then you might have a parallel.

Is that what Bonds said? Is this guy recalling something from when he was 20 18 years ago? Can you recall exact conversations from 20 years ago? Has it been re-told so many times that it's reached an exaggerated level?

Peter Gammons says Bonds is a very nice guy. He says he's very smart (brilliant, actually).

The most interesting baseball player on that list is catcher Tom Brady drafted in the 18th round by the Expos.

I guess he made a different career choice.

Schools like Serra at a minimum welcome athletes, who often want to go there without "recruiting". They provide access to better coaching, better competition usually a better education and increased exposure. Inner city kids are often offered scholarships . Hoops Dreams offers a very realistic look at tbig time HS sports for that era.

When a sports reporter of any sort says that "Player X is brilliant/very smart/cerebral/articulate," I usually think the sports reporter really means "Player X isn't a total Neanderthal" or "Player X speaks English fluently and without slang."

I never believe the sports reporter means, "Player X is just as smart (or smarter) than I am."

WCAL schools (I didn't go to Serra, but I went to another one which won a state championship in basketball when I was there) definitely recruit.

My crappy little Western PA high school used to recruit foreign exchange students from their travelling teams. We had a 6'10" center from Yugoslavia who looked like he had three children who took us to the state semi-finals and then played for 3 years at WVU and the year before we had a guy who played for the Puerto Rican national team while he was in college.

Private shcools have been barred by the Ohio High School Athletic Assoc. from recruiting for as long as I can remember (20+ years). Doesn't mean it doesn't happen - LeBron James was neither (a) Catholic nor (b) from Akron, which raised a few eyebrows - but they do seem to be somewhat diligent in enforcing it.

They've also taken steps towards limiting recruiting in public schools. Your parent or legal guardian has to live in the school district you attend (although you can transfer to an abutting district - but I think you have to have a good reason to transfer). There was a school who, it was whispered, was recruiting European kids as soccer players, then arrainging to have them come over as exchange students. The OHSAA changed the rules, and now that cannot happen.

Is that what Bonds said? Is this guy recalling something from when he was 20 18 years ago? Can you recall exact conversations from 20 years ago? Has it been re-told so many times that it's reached an exaggerated level?

No Chris. He's recalling a series of incidents with Bonds, each as unpleasant as the last. But he's probably just misremembering.

Peter Gammons says Bonds is a very nice guy. He says he's very smart (brilliant, actually).

Actually, this writer also says Bonds is very smart. Not so much on the very nice part.

I think that's very amusing. But it could effortlessly be spun as total dickishness if someone had an preexisting axe to grind.
If Bonds had politely told the guy, "I'm never signing any autographs," then you might have a parallel.

It's not a parallel at all, except in incredibly general terms; for starters, Steve Martin is not disliked. But let's say Steve Martin saw Dane Cook getting all the attention, took steroids to be funnier, and could no longer fit the novelty arrow over his massive PED-filled skull. Those who'd hate him for ruining comedy for the children could very easily add, "And furthermore, that arrogant cheating S.O.B. handed out stupid little pre-printed cards to his f'n FANS!" There's so much noise now that it's hard to determine how much Bonds' actions create the criticism, and how much the criticism recontextualizes Bonds' past actions into the worst possible light. It's a media-driven circumstance that's hardly unique to him.

As for your suggestion that a polite blanket refusal would do the trick, it's not like we haven't seen athletes quietly stick to their guns and get tormented by the press (Carlton's no-interview policy, Delgado's no-anthem policy).

Barry wasn't the kind of jerk who was nice to people only when he needed something from them. As far as I could tell, Barry was pretty much an ass to everybody all the time.

Isn't this exactly what used to be said about Thurmon Munson? "When you're moody, you're nice sometimes. Thurmon's just mean." Was Munson this widely loathed before his death?

As for your suggestion that a polite blanket refusal would do the trick, it's not like we haven't seen athletes quietly stick to their guns and get tormented by the press (Carlton's no-interview policy, Delgado's no-anthem policy).

I'm not saying it would "do the trick," but a reasonable guy like this writer wouldn't be telling us about it 20 years later if that was the case.

Edit: and as I recall, Carlton didn't come in for any opprobrium until he started opening his mouth to reveal his rather eccentric views.

Was Munson this widely loathed before his death?

Munson was the object of extremely high regard.

I don't believe there were any deeply reviled players from that era. Maybe Curt Flood. Anyone could have an anti-fan club, but I think we can agree Bonds is kind of in a class by himself.

Then I did something I am not totally proud of, but how often do you get a chance to meet a Nobel laureate? I asked if I could shake his hand; he graciously did so.

This is a respectable gesture on your part. I thought you were going to say "then I gushed how I was his biggest fan EVER! and asked if he'd sign his autograph on my ass."

Are we really to believe that this guy stood behind Barry Bonds with a 8x10 glossy waiting for him to sign for two hours? This kid stood behind Bonds while Barry kept him at bay ... what ever.

He claims it twice in his story, and in all honesty it is his only attack on Barry.

I really have a hard time believing that he stood behind him for two hours, like Barry was just sitting there scraping off toe fungus or something .. Barry had nothing else to do.

and I love how he tossed in the sick kid reference.

Every morning I would get a list of names--sick kids in hospitals or the children of people who knew one of the owners, mostly

he is a writer for gods sakes, he knows how to tug on your emotions.

I doubt very much this member of "The Mob" stood there for two hours.
and if by some miracle he did, its probably why it was his only season.

"the guy just stood around and did nothing"

I don't actually know Sam Holman -- the guy who makes Bonds' bats. However his factory used to be about two blocks from where I work and we were both regulars at the same pub (There's a Holman bat, Barry Bonds model, behind the bar) . In other words I'm getting the stories about Bonds and Holman second-hand.

Bonds has bailed him out (not quite charity, $40K for a bunch of bats at a time Holman was in dire cash flow problems -- couldn't afford to buy new wood and couldn't get credit), he's flown in for PR purposes when Holman was having trouble raising money for an expansion (the only one of Holman's customers to do so) and was a gracious guest (including signing autographs) when Holman took him to his favorite eating spot. (The Mayflower. If Rusty happens to be reading this, he can attest to the fact that it's not what you'd call 5 star dining. It is basically a decent pub -- and a fairly small one)

Who knows? Holman's a pretty odd bird himself by all accounts. Maybe they happened to hit it off because (as somebody mentioned here) Holman doesn't do deferential. Maybe he's just consistently caught Bonds on good days.

m bad, it was 89. so Bonds wasn't a rookie, but I still have a hard time believing he stood behind him for two hours waiting for him to sign

fixed

Edit: and as I recall, Carlton didn't come in for any opprobrium until he started opening his mouth to reveal his rather eccentric views.

You recall wrongly. He was the "surly southpaw." Just like Eddie Murray, beloved by his teammates, was forever "the surly superstar." At the tailend of his career, Carlton started de-freezing reporters; at least one was publicly smirking about how Lefty was learning to say 'hello' just when everybody else was telling him 'goodbye.' But attention to Carlton's crazy talk didn't pick up any public steam until a 1994 magazine article that coincided with his being voted into Cooperstown.

#41: or maybe Bonds was nice to this guy cuz Bonds needed something from him, instead of the other way around.

#41: or maybe Bonds was nice to this guy cuz Bonds needed something from him, instead of the other way around

I have read this story before and I didn't get that tone.

You guys make it sounds like nobody gets along with Bonds. Like it is impossible or something.
We have seen many stories come out of people that have had great relationships with Barry, but you all choose to hang your hat on a spurned medias verbs .. .. .. oh and Jeff Kent. go figure.

you all choose to hang your hat on a spurned medias verbs .. .. .. oh and Jeff Kent. go figure.

Don't forget Jim Leyland, who yelled at Bonds on camera one day 17 years ago because he despised his leftfielder's guts as anybody would and who wanted Barry gone with a capital G. Anybody who says different-- for instance, Jim Leyland, repeatedly-- is just another pathetic Bonds apologist.

I doubt very much this member of "The Mob" stood there for two hours. and if by some miracle he did, its probably why it was his only season.

Well, he was an intern, they get the crappiest jobs. "Get Barry's sig on this and don't come back without it." "Yes, sir."

He was the "surly southpaw."

If that's true, I never saw it. Of course, the Chicago papers would've cared less, but I didn't even see it in The Sporting News. The most you'd get is "standoffish," "remote." The focus on Carlton (if there was one) was on his dedicated conditioning; I recall in particular that he had to have a can of raw tuna in the clubhouse before his starts as part of his overall training regimen.

at least one was publicly smirking about how Lefty was learning to say 'hello' just when everybody else was telling him 'goodbye.'

I do indeed recall that delicious bit of revenge.

But attention to Carlton's crazy talk didn't pick up any public steam until a 1994 magazine article that coincided with his being voted into Cooperstown.

It was known before then, if not as prominent because he was an uninteresting has-been by the time the Phils let him go.

Serra Alum who played pro baseball

Tom Brady played catcher?

Tom Brady played catcher?

They projected him as the next Joe Mauer.

You guys make it sounds like nobody gets along with Bonds. Like it is impossible or something.
We have seen many stories come out of people that have had great relationships with Barry, but you all choose to hang your hat on a spurned medias verbs .. .. .. oh and Jeff Kent. go figure.

Nobody, except possibly Kevin, believes Bonds is evil incarnate and incapable of decent behavior. At the same time, I don't see how you or GB can read this particular piece and not believe that maybe, just maybe, some of what the nasty media has been saying about him for 20 years isn't possibly true.

Sure, it's possible this author's memories of Bonds have been shaped by all the negative media coverage around Bonds. More likely, all the negative media coverage has been fueled by the kind of behavior this author, and all those reporters who actually had to interact with Bonds (as opposed to love him from afar), witnessed on a regular basis.

But Doc, my memory of Carlton is the same as GB's. I thought the general impression of him as surly a$$hole existed long before he opened his mouth and demonstrated that we were all better off when he kept it shut.

I don't believe there were any deeply reviled players from that era.

Dick Allen was certainly reviled in some quarters.

I don't see how you or GB can read this particular piece and not believe that maybe, just maybe, some of what the nasty media has been saying about him for 20 years isn't possibly true.
Sure, it's possible this author's memories of Bonds have been shaped by all the negative media coverage around Bonds. More likely, all the negative media coverage has been fueled by the kind of behavior this author, and all those reporters who actually had to interact with Bonds (as opposed to love him from afar), witnessed on a regular basis.

Oh, I haven't any doubt that Barry's been a big grouchy douchewad to a whole lot of people. I believe a good chunk of the official story. But not all of it.

I'm just saying that the difference between being portrayed as your garden variety egotistical jerk (i.e. Reggie, Schilling, Rickey, Unit, Clemens, Rose, Blyleven, Bonilla) or upping the ante to frightening misanthrope/sociopath (i.e. Bonds, Carlton, Murray, Belle) always seems to be "does the guy throw me a useable quote?" Sometimes you get a John Rocker, who was perfectly willing to chat but was too much fun to kick back and forth. But usually it's a simpler proposition: "make with the quo, or we'll quid your ass from here to Christmas."

We know that the career-long Eddie Murray trashing was an almost total lie, fueled only by the media's peevishness and spite. And we know that the BBWAA's professed unawareness of steroids has, shall we say, evolved over time. Combine those two elements, and watch out! When we read, as we sometimes do, that Bonds told the grand jury that he used steroids, or that Jim Leyland wanted Bonds traded, my drug of choice is skepticism.

Bonds is evil incarnate because of a confluence of factors:

He's arguably the greatest player of all time.

He went after and broke baseball's most idolized record.

Is an a-hole, showing disdain for anyone beneath his station.

He's a Black man doing all of those things.

Having tried to discuss race many, many times on these threads, it's almost useless to even raise the issue because all the unconscious history of race in America makes it hard to focus. People immediately assume you are calling anybody that dislikes or even hates Bonds a racist, or that everyone's motivation who dislikes Bonds or his actions is racial, even if unconscious.

The point is that you cannot exclude race as an obvious factor in the treatment of Bonds. Sure, the press has taken a McGwire or Palmeiro or other steroid user to task, they've written columns critical of other baseball a-holes, the press was no fan of Ted Williams, guys like Ty Cobb are disparaged based upon his character.

Still, I don't think it's unfair to call the press and others calling for Bonds scalp a lynch mob. Look at any historical photo of a lynching, and what do you see: grinning, leering people proud of the fact that an uppity nig got his comeuppance.

How else can you explain the glee, the pure hatred, the long, long pursuit, all the columns written that want to wipe not only Bonds record out of existence, but the memory of the man himself?

I'm sorry, but it's FUBAR that it's beyond the pale to point out the importance of race in this story, and the reaction of mainstream America to this story.

The man took PEDs like thousands of other athletes, he didn't kill anyone, didn't commit any real crime against persons.

It makes no rational sense that people have devoted huge chunks of their lives to their Bonds animus, that no actual criminal gets this kind of reaction, that the only people rating this high are Presidents, war criminals, and Hilary Clinton.

Welp, there it is, come and bat me about the head and shoulders for writing it, or just simply ignore it.

Caveat: I am not saying people who's made the rational case against Bonds obvious PED use and its aid in his career have unconscious racial motivations.

But the overall reaction partakes of it -- how could it not in a country still in such deep denial about the devastating impact of racial animus upon Black Americans.

I never believe the sports reporter means, "Player X is just as smart (or smarter) than I am."

Well, presumably you lose your credibility if you go around calling 90% of the human race "brilliant".