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Saturday, October 27, 2007

Boston Globe: Shaughnessy: Winning isn’t the only thing

Shaughnessy…and his love of the game.

Really. It has come to this. The Sox are so good and they’ve been clutch for so long (five straight postseason wins and six straight Series wins) that they’ve spawned a small legion of new fans who have no idea what rooting for the Red Sox was like. And so now we have some alleged “fans” who aren’t satisfied with just another world championship. They want the cherry on top. They want all the Fenway trappings to go along with it: “Sweet Caroline,” “Dirty Water,” the Dropkicks, the Irish Step Dancers, and Papelbon Riverdancing on the Fenway lawn with a bottle of Korbel in his pitching hand and a Luis Tiant cigar in his mouth.

It’s no longer about the contest. Now it’s performance art with style points.

Peter Gammons, the greatest baseball writer of them all before he became Hardball Guru of ESPN, yesterday said, “Right after the game Thursday, I ran into a guy who said, ‘I hope they lose a couple in Denver so they can come home and win it.’ Wow. Now it’s not just about getting a Mercedes. They want a blue Mercedes.”

Repoz Posted: October 27, 2007 at 01:28 PM | 57 comment(s) | Login to Bookmark
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1. BaBaBooey Posted: October 27, 2007 at 01:54 PM (#2595666)

Leave it to Shank to come up with some bush league controversial topic. He loves to play the card that no one likes him in Boston after he purposefully writes stirring topics. He should move to Miami or LA where fans could not give two XXXXs about the game, rarely attend, and when they do have their backs turned to the game.

2. rpackrat Posted: October 27, 2007 at 02:13 PM (#2595681)

Are Red Sox fans becoming the new Yankee fans?

3. winnipegwhip Posted: October 27, 2007 at 02:14 PM (#2595683)

There was none of this in 2004 when the Sox used the St. Louis Cardinals as props in the final scene of the greatest sports story ever told.

Not even close - it can be a never ending debate what is the greatest sports story ever told but I don't even think of this team being mentioned. Some that do come to mind.

1951 Pennant Race and its finish - Didn't Shirley Povich write, "Fiction is dead." to describe that conclusion.

1980 Miracle on Ice - amateurs beating a professional all star team. Fluke or not it was an amazing story.

1960 World Series

Super Bowl 3

Villanova vs Georgetown.

Secretariat at the Belmont

Ali Frazier

Buster Douglas

Twins and Braves both going from worst to first in 1991 and having the greatest World Series IMO.

4. AROM Posted: October 27, 2007 at 02:19 PM (#2595684)

Are Red Sox fans becoming the new Yankee fans?

No, they are infinitely more annoying.

5. G.W.O. Posted: October 27, 2007 at 02:24 PM (#2595688)

winnipegwhip: The greatest sports stories ever told and every single one took place in the United States! What are the odds?

6. Juan V is the mustard of your doom! Posted: October 27, 2007 at 02:28 PM (#2595690)

In a Greatest Sports Stories discussion, I always feel the need to point this one out: 1999 Champions League final.

7. winnipegwhip Posted: October 27, 2007 at 02:35 PM (#2595698)

The greatest sports stories ever told and every single one took place in the United States! What are the odds?

I would list Canada Russia 1972 when Paul Henderson beat the godless commies was noteworthy. I am sure there are other noteworthy moments around the world that I am not aware about. Heck there are probably moments in youth and high school sports that merit mentioning.

8. Mister High Standards Posted: October 27, 2007 at 02:40 PM (#2595705)

WW - The difference between the Redsox 86 year journey and all of those stories is the you know at least 85 and a half years of story telling.

Miricle on Ice was insane though.

9. winnipegwhip Posted: October 27, 2007 at 02:54 PM (#2595714)

Why doesn't the Phillies get this treatment after they won in 1980? There season was quite the storybook with Schmidt's homer off of the Expos to clinch the NL East and the winning the best and most tense LCS ever and in comeback fashion. Even the World Series wasn't a cakewalk. In the same amount of seasons they were back in the World Series but they were not hated like Sox are today.

10. HowardMegdal

Posted: October 27, 2007 at 03:01 PM (#2595719)

11. Mister High Standards Posted: October 27, 2007 at 03:06 PM (#2595722)

Why doesn't the Phillies get this treatment after they won in 1980? There season was quite the storybook with Schmidt's homer off of the Expos to clinch the NL East and the winning the best and most tense LCS ever and in comeback fashion.

This is really ridiculous. The story wasn't nearly as dramatic, and if you actually spend more than 30 seconds thinking about you would realize it.

12. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: October 27, 2007 at 03:23 PM (#2595739)

1951 Pennant Race and its finish - Didn't Shirley Povich write, "Fiction is dead." to describe that conclusion.

it was actually Red Smith

http://www.baseballlibrary.com/baseballlibrary/excerpts/red_smith3.stm

13. Nasty Nate Posted: October 27, 2007 at 03:23 PM (#2595740)

since weve had to suffer thru a lot of ham-handed articles about the changing atmosphere of sox fandom, check out this article

14. Nasty Nate Posted: October 27, 2007 at 03:25 PM (#2595742)

ok the link doesnt work, but heres the address:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=ApsLowasxjAwQME_hma9W145nYcB?slug=dw-fenway102507&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

15. Rough Carrigan

Posted: October 27, 2007 at 03:32 PM (#2595748)

Is anyone surprised that CHB essentially says that the story covered, in part, by his hack magnum opus is the greatest sports story?

16. Chris Hansen, NBC Dateline Posted: October 27, 2007 at 03:36 PM (#2595751)

17. Rough Carrigan

Posted: October 27, 2007 at 03:40 PM (#2595755)

Wow. Thanks, Nate. That was a very good piece by Wetzel. Dead on in almost every respect.

18. Nasty Nate Posted: October 27, 2007 at 03:42 PM (#2595756)

i was only 1 at the time in 1980, so maybe it was just as dramatic.

if not its because the Phillies hadnt lost in the 7th game in 4 world series like the sox had. i think the most they had ever won in a previous postseason series was 1 game.

19. Nasty Nate Posted: October 27, 2007 at 03:43 PM (#2595757)

post #19 was in response to #17 which he appears to have deleted/edited

20. TheTwonOne Posted: October 27, 2007 at 03:45 PM (#2595758)

Are Red Sox fans becoming the new Yankee fans?

They are worse.

21. booond Posted: October 27, 2007 at 04:14 PM (#2595768)

Red Sox fan here. Went back to Boston twice this summer and everywhere you go are Sox shirts, hats and other schlock. The great part of it is there are many more baseball fans than before. while Boston was always a hotbed for baseball, it is even hotter now. The worst part is that we've gained the people that know little but talk a lot. In that regard, Red Sox nation has become the twin of Yankee nation. The difference is tone. Yankee fans were old money, they believed they had an entitlement to the World Series, Red Sox fans are the boorish recent rich.

Neither fan is fun to be around (had a former CEO who was a Yankee fan say in all seriousness that he hoped the Red Sox plane went down before Game 7 in 2004) but have seen and heard plenty of Sox fans Yankee's suck or worse. Both fans suck.

As to the Greatest Sports story, the 1980 game "Miracle on Ice" was one game with a hot goalie, exciting moment, yes, greater than Red Sox winning four straight down 3-0... not even close. I'll give you 1951 and still get goosebumps watching Secretariat. Buster Douglas... don't make me laugh.

22. The Bones McCoy of THT Posted: October 27, 2007 at 04:15 PM (#2595769)

i was only 1 at the time in 1980, so maybe it was just as dramatic.

Wow, good memory. The only thing I remember from that age is playing with the neighbor's pit bull. I have no idea how I got on the other side of fence however. I guess the aspirator made me dizzy.

Best Regards

John

23. ekogan Posted: October 27, 2007 at 04:15 PM (#2595770)

Are Red Sox fans becoming the new Yankee fans?

The more interesting question is are Yankee fans becoming the old Red Sox fans? Meaning pessimistic neurotics.

24. Darren

Posted: October 27, 2007 at 04:21 PM (#2595774)

You know who the biggest jerks are? Fans of every team but the Red Sox. Have you ever had to deal with one of these people? They are the most annoying idiots in the world.

25. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: October 27, 2007 at 04:54 PM (#2595792)

the most annoying fans are old Brooklyn Dodger fans (imagine RedSox fans with the team suddenly moved to Portland)

26. PJ Martinez Posted: October 27, 2007 at 05:02 PM (#2595797)

"the most annoying fans are old Brooklyn Dodger fans (imagine RedSox fans with the team suddenly moved to Portland)"

And some of them became Sox fans (Doris Kearns Goodwin comes to mind).

27. Los Angeles ALBERT F. PUJOLS of Anaheim

Posted: October 27, 2007 at 05:04 PM (#2595799)

Are Red Sox fans becoming the new Yankee fans?

I think they've essentially merged into one titanically hateful entity.

28. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: October 27, 2007 at 05:07 PM (#2595802)

the most annoying fans are old Brooklyn Dodger fans (imagine RedSox fans with the team suddenly moved to Portland)

Portland, Oregon, that is (I should have said)

(Portland, Maine would be a whole different story)

29. PJ Martinez Posted: October 27, 2007 at 05:20 PM (#2595810)

"And so now we have some alleged “fans” who aren’t satisfied with just another world championship. They want the cherry on top. They want all the Fenway trappings to go along with it: “Sweet Caroline,” “Dirty Water,” the Dropkicks, the Irish Step Dancers, and Papelbon Riverdancing on the Fenway lawn with a bottle of Korbel in his pitching hand and a Luis Tiant cigar in his mouth."

All of this based on one comment from one girl that Peter Gammons overheard?

There are a lot of obnoxious Sox fans. Is there any team that, once it began to win a lot, didn't accumulate a lot of obnoxious fans?

The San Antonio Spurs, maybe.

30. ekogan Posted: October 27, 2007 at 05:44 PM (#2595827)

There are a lot of obnoxious Sox fans. Is there any team that, once it began to win a lot, didn't accumulate a lot of obnoxious fans?

The San Antonio Spurs, maybe.

That shows you how incredibly boring the Spurs are

31. Swedish Chef Posted: October 27, 2007 at 05:52 PM (#2595836)

I think they've essentially merged into one titanically hateful entity.

That would be one way to contract MLB, with a megamerger. The East Coast Red Yankees, payroll $350 million, HOFers everywhere.

32. PJ Martinez Posted: October 27, 2007 at 06:14 PM (#2595846)

Belated thanks to Nate for that Wetzel piece. Really good. He got a New Yorker-style word count and made it count.

33. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: October 27, 2007 at 06:34 PM (#2595864)

The Sox are so good and they’ve been clutch for so long (five straight postseason wins and six straight Series wins)

Wait, two weeks is "so long"?

Where was their "clutch" in 2005?

34. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: October 27, 2007 at 06:35 PM (#2595866)

Well, that lasted a day.

35. winnipegwhip Posted: October 27, 2007 at 06:49 PM (#2595880)

A short 4 years before, the Czechs beat the Soviets in the '68 Olympics by a score of 1-0. The game was being played in the aftermath of the Soviet invasion of their country, after Alexander Dubcek took steps to move the country towards a path of democratization and intellectual freedom. That game was huge, and the entire country wept after the outcome.

Everything is based on ones perspective and on that I will agree with you Kevin and match you with the Water Polo match in 1956 between the USSR and Hungary.

36. TFTIO who can remember his past lives Posted: October 27, 2007 at 07:27 PM (#2595905)

Nothing about Jesse Owens in '36?

37. Curse of the Graffanino (dfan) Posted: October 27, 2007 at 07:56 PM (#2595926)

No, they are infinitely more annoying.

Sorry about that.

38. karlmagnus Posted: October 27, 2007 at 08:02 PM (#2595934)

Botrham's Ashes in '81 (hi, Phil!) England were quoted at 500-1 to win the third game of the series, then Botham hit an amazing century, Willis took a bunch of wickets and we beat them by 20 runs or so and went on to win the series. I was at an Australian community party in Puerto Rico that evening, on which I had heard the final score over short wave radio, and the Aussies hadn't. Good times, good times!

39. Bernal Diaz has an angel on his shoulder. Posted: October 27, 2007 at 09:34 PM (#2595980)

The greatest moment in sports history was Mohammad Ali lighting the Olympic flame in 1996.

40. walt williams bobblehead Posted: October 27, 2007 at 09:43 PM (#2595982)

The greatest moment in sports history was Mohammad Ali lighting the Olympic flame in 1996.

It figures a Cleveland fan would pick a moment that had nothing to do with winning or losing. (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

41. Bernal Diaz has an angel on his shoulder. Posted: October 27, 2007 at 09:46 PM (#2595986)

It figures a Cleveland fan would pick a moment that had nothing to do with winning or losing.

That is kind of the point.

42. Darren

Posted: October 27, 2007 at 09:46 PM (#2595987)

BTW, I love how quickly the terrain shifts for Red Sox fans. A couple years ago it was "Look at these sad sacks still rooting for a loser against all odds." And now nobody can stand the fact that a Red Sox fan might have a little confidence in his/her team.

43. The importance of being Ernest Riles Posted: October 27, 2007 at 09:56 PM (#2595992)

"Look at these sad sacks still rooting for a loser against all odds."

Now that I don't remember.

44. Phil Coorey, You Won't Posted: October 27, 2007 at 10:05 PM (#2595993)

Real Boston fans don't care about CHB, and he wrote a point on what a guy who had brain tumors over heard???

45. Margo Adams FC Posted: October 27, 2007 at 10:16 PM (#2595998)

I'm not gonna be satisfied until people are feeling pretty sorry about those plucky Yankee fans, rooting against all odds.

46. villageidiom Posted: October 27, 2007 at 11:15 PM (#2596021)

The secret to how this happened, I believe, can be found, among other places, in a concession stand glass door refrigerator under the right field grandstands. It carries a sign and contents that simply would never be found here before Henry took over and remade ancient Fenway.

"Healthy Choices," it reads. Inside are sandwich wraps, low calorie meals and, even, salads. Lots of salads.

What he failed to mention was that, in the same "Healthy Choices" case, they had Twinkies. I'm not kidding; they've had Twinkies (and cupcakes and Sno-Balls) in that case all postseason.

Here's what wasn't at Fenway on Wednesday: waving white towels, exploding scoreboards, fireworks and other assorted Disney gimmicks.

On Thursday they handed out yellow towels, courtesy of DHL, to each ticketholder. I didn't see a single one being waved all night. We used ours to wipe the peanut shells off our seats, and then put them away.

47. Swedish Chef Posted: October 27, 2007 at 11:18 PM (#2596024)

And now nobody can stand the fact that a Red Sox fan might have a little confidence in his/her team.

Just quit whining about your underdoggitude.

48. Flynn Posted: October 28, 2007 at 01:56 AM (#2596505)

Just quit whining about your underdoggitude.

Quit whining about our winning.

49. birdlives is one crazy ninja Posted: October 28, 2007 at 02:56 AM (#2596682)

There are a lot of obnoxious Sox fans. Is there any team that, once it began to win a lot, didn't accumulate a lot of obnoxious fans?

Braves and Angels fans?

50. gay guy in cut-offs smoking the objective pipe Posted: October 28, 2007 at 03:27 AM (#2596770)

Braves and Angels fans?

Considering Braves fans used to get lambasted for their relative indifference (not selling out playoff games, etc.), they seem like a good bet.

51. birdlives is one crazy ninja Posted: October 28, 2007 at 04:33 AM (#2596897)

Considering Braves fans used to get lambasted for their relative indifference (not selling out playoff games, etc.), they seem like a good bet.

Ok, how about Minny fans? Successful franchse, not even a hint of people complaining that their fanbase is obnoxious.

52. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: October 28, 2007 at 04:59 AM (#2596911)

The best sports moment ever is still when Fukudome hit that dinger off BHK.

53. Richard Gadsden Posted: October 28, 2007 at 04:06 PM (#2597135)

1999 Champions' League
2005 Champions' League
1954 World Cup
1978 World Cup second phase, with bribery and all
1989 Football League championship ("Fever Pitch")
1981 Ashes

54. Darren

Posted: October 28, 2007 at 04:17 PM (#2597142)

I just had a casual baseball fan say to me that we should be rooting for the series to go back to Boston so they can celebrate at Fenway. ??? I'm stunned that anyone can think this way. Did 86 years teach people nothing about appreciating any type of victory?

55. Halofan Posted: October 28, 2007 at 06:31 PM (#2597204)

Angels bandwagon has a lot of casual fans who get in the way but they are basically harmless, while the surly smugness of the new Boston fan so perfectly mimics Yankee fans that the ire is up with everyone else.

56. Darren

Posted: October 28, 2007 at 06:53 PM (#2597206)

Surly smugness? The person I'm talking about is neither surly nor smug. He just doesn't quite realize how special it is to win a World Series.

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Boston Globe: Shaughnessy: Winning isn’t the only thing

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