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I mentioned that Buchholz had a no-hitter going after the 2nd inning in the game chatter. Then I did it again after the 4th and every inning after that. Take THAT, superstitions!
Didn't someone do it for the Bill Veeck era St. Louis Browns?
How come we didn't get a thread on this during the game. Blasted primer and it's Central Time Zone bias!
Bobo Holloman of the St. Louis Browns no-hit the A's in his first start in 1953. It was raining so hard that sometime around the 7th inning Bill Veeck announced that the fans could use their rain checks for another game of their choice. Holloman was back in the minors for good within a couple of months, and died a forgotten man, a footnote to history.
Just to cross post
That was pretty increadible. I can't believe how HUGE his curve was or what type of seperation he had between his fb and cu. 93 on the fb 78 on the cu is pretty much cy young contender stuff.
I hope the kid stays healthy.
Well done.
Oh, come on. He lost the perfect game in the first inning!
Next thing you know he has a no hitter going on after 7.
The Pedroia save at 2nd was the clincher for me. I was almost in tears after that and started calling everyone to let them know what was going on.
It wasn't Wilson Alvarez's first start, but it was the first out he ever recorded.
I hope the kid stays healthy.
Well done.
Not attempting to be a dick, but...does the "stuff" you described REALLY qualify as the best all year?
I only caught the last inning but I'd almost have to agree with that. And the "almost" is only because I've seen Joba every time he's pitched, and it wasn't always against teams like the Orioles.
But that curve ball of Buchholz must have been taught to him by Camilo Pascual---talk about dropping off the table. Sure hope that he matches up against the Yanks in Fenway, just to see how good he really might be.
Best I saw. Though, a couple of the really good games I only saw the condesed version. But he was filthy with huge movement on his change, with huge seperation and a BIG 12-6 curve... throwing all 3 for strikes in any count.
In addition to Holloman, Ted Brietenstein and Bumpus Jones both threw no-hitters in their first start, Breitenstein in 1891 and Jones in 1892.
Jones's was in his first game as well, and he would win only one more game.
Ok, point taken. I would say the best I've seen this year was Felix against you guys back in April.
No, Freddy Kreuggar will be bannished.
I didn't watch any of Santana's recent 17 K game, which I imagine has to have been on par with both Hernandez and Buchholz.
Good memory. That was the most impressive pitching I've seen since Pedro was Pedro.
I imagine he'd take Tavarez's spot?
Or Lester's
Beckett
Dice
Schilling
Clay
Wake
Suits me fine
In truth, I'm not even sure that Chamberlain's stuff is better than Buchholz, and I only saw the last inning of tonight's game, compared to every inning Chamberlain's pitched.
Good memory. That was the most impressive pitching I've seen since Pedro was Pedro.
Pretty damn close for now, though let's see what he does for the next few years before getting into that kind of a comparison! Pedro at his peak was the greatest of them all.
Wow, what a terrific performance. All of his pitches were working, to say the least. It looked as if the ump might decide to screw him, but he managed not to. I also wasn't a big fan of the long bottom of the 8th (lots of worked counts), but it all worked out! What a great moment.
One question on etiquette: I understand that guys aren't supposed to bunt in the 9th, but is it kosher for the 1B and 3B to play back on speedy guys, daring them to?
Oh, I'm not saying he's as good as Pedro, just that on that day, he was as dazzling to me as a viewer as I've seen since Pedro. Not even Santana, although I've never seen any of Santana's vintage games.
I kind of suspect that if it were Schilling out there doing it, things would have gone down differently. I think the Orioles more inclined to be kind to a rookie.
Especially Coco who never seems to work the count...
I don't know, but it shows a lot of class for BR, CP, and NM to take their swings and not try and take an easy way out.
With Joba, Kennedy, Hughes, Clay and maybe a few more coming through, we are in for amazing times. Hopefully the teams won't need to waste more money in the winter if they keep drafting like this!!!!
He got picked off 1st base, Lugo style.
Also, somebody did try to bunt earlier in teh game, but Clay fielded it.
The Orioles hit a bunch of balls hard at people: they were better off swinging.
I hadn't seen Buchholz pitch before tonight and, yeah, he's got nasty stuff. I had heard that his changeup was a killer, but he threw some of the prettier curveballs I've seen tonight. Still, I think the King Felix game against the Red Sox earlier this year was the best performance I've seen in the past several seasons. Buchholz made himself look great tonight, but Felix made the Sox look bush league in that game.
Would the Sox have to go through some DL machinations to get Buchholz on the post-season roster?
Sure, Gaylord Perry and Ray Washburn pitched back-to-back no-hitters against each other's teams (the Giants and the Cardinals) back in about 1968.
I think the score had a lot to do with it. Schilling wa bunted on in a 2-0 game, iirc. The player was trying to win or tie a close game on a "bunt and a blast".
Down 10 runs that's not an issue. I don't think it was classy that the O's swung away so much as it would have been completely bush league to bunt on the short side of a blowout no hitter attempt.
I was at that game. If I remember correctly, it was his 2nd start, 1st with the Sox, and in his only other apprearance he didn't record any outs.
...and, as the link to Retrosheet showed, it was also against the O's.
Fred Toney-Hippo Vaughn had an almost double no-hitter, with Vaughn giving up his first hit, and the game, in the 10th inning.
Dave Stewart and Fernando Valenzuela both threw no-hitters on the same day... and both games were the scheduled ESPN doubleheader.
Gaylord Perry and Ray Washburn both shut out the other's team on consecutive days in 1968.
Yeah, the Felix game was the best "stuff" I feel that I've ever seen since Pedro's 1-hitter. He was throwing 90MPH sliders, hitting the black with 98 MPH fastballs, and had a great mid to high 80s "change" working.
yes, he hit 93 to get Brian Roberts in the 9th
Would the Sox have to go through some DL machinations to get Buchholz on the post-season roster?
No, all they'd have to do is ditch some deadweight (Snyder, Tavarez, HINSKE)
Buchholz' stuff was more like vintage David Cone. Which, of course, is plenty good.
Mike Warren had a lower career ERA+ (76 to 80) though he at least played in parts of 3 seasons. Bud Smith's career didn't last long, either.
OTOH, Warren was ok in Hill Street Blues.
I'd rather have more of his contributions - and have a better idea about what he can do against major league hitters (and that Baltimore lineup, despite being weak, does have a number of them) than be just as in the dark about what he can do as the opposition.
The hitters decided not to hang the pitchers out to dry as the only reason for a historically bad three week stretch.
/Pavano
/Clement
I was unimpressed with my decision making to say the least....
Someone could die of AIDS :(
I saw Bourne as well today mate....
At 2pm , two hours AFTER the no hitter!!!!
I wonder what Bobo Holloman's game scores might have been, or Karl Spooner's first two starts, which were low-hit shutouts with 15 and 12 K's. Guess I'll have to wait till they work their way back to to 1954 and 1953 to find out.
Expand it to 5 starts and see what you get.
Buchholz's 93 is tied for 5th, behind Rob Gardner, Kerry Wood (20K game), Dick Selma and Juan Marichal. Gardner's 5th career start was very impressive - he had a game score of 112. I'd never heard of the guy before.
The other two interesting names that pop up are those of 18-year old Von McDaniel (#66) and 18-year old Lew Krausse (#97), who was Charlie Finley's first big-time bonus baby. He came straight out of high school, pitched one great game, and then went 67-91 after that.
Von McDaniel was Lindy's younger brother and a true phenom, whose first or second game was almost as good as the one listed here. He went 7 and 5 that first year but then wrecked his arm and never won another game after that. If only he'd had Joba's handlers.
One of the odd things about Buchholz: control of the fastball seems to be his Achilles Heel, while control of the changeup and curve are terrific. Are there many other pitchers out there who have a harder time controlling their fastball than their offspeed stuff?
If he wasn't in the majors, he wouldn't have had to deal with their training staff. :) Seriously, although there's no conclusive evidence that being in MLB has hurt him, there's never conclusive evidence in these cases. What we do know is that he's struggled a bit in the Majors. That could be because he was rushed or it could be for some other reason (maybe he's soaking up all the bad defense).
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v688/ottocrat/buchholz.gif
He put in the locations himself-- he wasn't using enhanced Gameday-- so I suppose the accuracy of those locations is up for debate. That said, if I'm reading it correctly, it looks like there zero pitches in the middle of the strike zone-- everything was on the edges or out of the zone.
What's with the SOSH guys' obsession with spelling of players' names? It's one of the worst offenses you can commit over there, right next to starting any kind of topic.
Obviously not the same class of prospect, but Tyler Clippard had little to no clue where his fastball was going during his big league time this year.
Since his return hes looked like a rusty pitcher that needs to build arm strength.
I don't think Kennedy belongs to be grouped with these guys. He's definitly at least a notch behiind Hughes and Joba. Likely more than one notch.
I decided to go back to BED after the 2nd inning.
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