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Thursday, July 24, 2008

BPro: Silver: Shrinking the Ballpark

More broadly, there are many ways to follow baseball these days without actually watching it, such as being into fantasy, video games, or even sabermetrics. What might seem like anti-social behavior to a 50-year-old—sitting on one’s computer, flipping back and forth between several games, obsessively checking one’s fantasy statistics, and IM’ing or text-messaging friends—may seem like the most natural thing in the world to a 20-year-old.

Still, I’ll bet you that most of those 20-year-olds were significantly influenced by having attended games as 12-year-olds, or by continuing to attend games occasionally as young adults. The experience of watching a game at the ballpark need not necessarily be a superior experience so much as it is a different experience that allows these younger fans to enjoy and embrace the game in different ways. Conversely, I tend to think that, if one’s engagement with baseball becomes overly virtual, it is at more risk of being displaced by other virtual pursuits, such as playing Grand Theft Auto or renting something from Netflix.

Although...The Rise and Fall of the Pavano Crime Family was never made into a flick.

Repoz Posted: July 24, 2008 at 04:43 PM | 13 comment(s)
  Related News: GeneralBusinessSabermetrics

Reader Comments and Retorts

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Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

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   1. Alex Gordon's #1 Fan Posted: July 24, 2008 at 05:02 PM (#2871778)
Speaking personally, I am nowhere near that way with baseball yet, but I remember having attended a block of NCAA (Basketball) Tournament games at the United Center while in college, and regretting that I couldn’t catch up with the close finishes elsewhere around the country.


Yea, but the energy of an NCAA Tournament game (not including the Final Four) is about as palpable as a Royals/Orioles game in September.

The experience of watching a game at the ballpark need not necessarily be a superior experience so much as it is a different experience that allows these younger fans to enjoy and embrace the game in different ways.


It may now be time to make the ballpark experience more like the home experience.


Baseball does not need to make the ballpark experience more like the home experience. As he states earlier, they want a different experience than the home experience when they go out. People go to games because they are events, with energy, a sense of community, and a chance to get out of the house. Sure, I could get more stats and replays watching the game at home, but there will always be a desire by people to "get out" which is why theaters will never fully die, and why people will continue to go to the ballgame.
   2. Rough Carrigan Posted: July 24, 2008 at 07:50 PM (#2871874)
I admire the discipline of yankee fan Silver in managing to never mention Fenway Park in the course of this article. This is especially conspicuous considering the importance of Fenway in showing how perceived scarcity can inflate prices to the point that overall ticket revenues are as great or greater with fewer seats.
   3. greenback06 Posted: July 24, 2008 at 08:11 PM (#2871884)
Yea, but the energy of an NCAA Tournament game (not including the Final Four) is about as palpable as a Royals/Orioles game in September.

This is so wrong. The Final Four games are generally less "energetic" than competitive regional games and something like Belmont-Duke cannot be touched by baseball.
   4. kubiwan Posted: July 24, 2008 at 09:55 PM (#2872037)
yankee fan Silver

Note that it matters to the substance of his article, but Silver is a Tigers fan, which he noted in his last chat.
   5. MM1f Posted: July 24, 2008 at 10:05 PM (#2872058)
3,
Yeah, I really don't know how the poster thought that. Maybe he misspoke and meant to say the opposite because, while I've never been, I could see how the corporate atmosphere at a Final Four game could be a letdown regardless of the great stuff on the court. But to me the first two weekends are a GREAT in-person sporting event. The tickets aren't cheap but they aren't out of anyones price range of anyone looking to do some entertainment spending, and you're getting two games per session ticket (in the opening round at least).

Maybe seeing a non-competitive, non-upset game in a location across the country from either school participating, and thus weak fan atmosphere, could be a let down but most regionals feature at least one, if not more, really tight game and there are usually enough fans there to give it a really charged atmosphere.

I LOVE the early round NCAA bkball games in person. One of the best sporting events out there. I'd recommend it to anyone.
   6. GGC won't apologize for liking the Red Sox Posted: July 24, 2008 at 10:12 PM (#2872074)
Repoz, were you actually aware of this place? I believe that they are related to the pitcher. They're in the general vicinity of where he grew up.
   7. Fargo Posted: July 24, 2008 at 10:28 PM (#2872108)
If you're looking for an excellent auto repair shop, with no crime in the family, here ya go: http://www.jakesautobodyshop.com . It used to be in my family.
   8. Repoz Posted: July 24, 2008 at 10:54 PM (#2872168)
Repoz, were you actually aware of this place?

Yea, I know he has an extended familia up in Conn...but The Pavano Crime Family used here is the one from Grand Theft Auto (bless my twins and their deviated ways!)
   9. HSF Posted: July 25, 2008 at 01:27 AM (#2872352)
Dear Nate:
You ought to apply this principle of bigger is better to your own site. Lower your rates and make yourself more accessible to the average fan. You have good content, but I won't pay $4.95 a month for it. All due respect/no disrespect, but you're not the New Yorker or New York Review, etc., which are all still cheaper than you. I know - they have ads. I have no doubt you have looked at this every which way, and you know what you're doing, but imagine how many more fans you'd have at a price point of $1.95. I know this all sounds smart-assy, but I actually am serious. Sincerely,
Me.
   10. Gold Star for Robot Boy Posted: July 25, 2008 at 01:30 AM (#2872356)
If we're giving unsolicited advice to Nate, I'd start with a request for either moderating comments on 538.com or doing away with them entirely.
Too many damn trolls there.
   11. Fargo Posted: July 25, 2008 at 03:18 AM (#2872448)
Massive: You mention $4.95/mo as the cost of BP, which is the rate if you only subscribe for one month. I bet few people subscribe that way because you can't get PECOTA that way.

But their basic first year sub is $39.95, which works out to $3.33/mo. After one year a renewal is $32.95, which works out to $2.75/mo.

IOW, a sub to BP is a lot cheaper than you think.

You can even get a "fantasy" sub for $19.95, which does give you access to PECOTA and some other stuff but not their basic articles. That works out to $1.66 per month.
   12. Brandon in MO (for America!) Posted: July 25, 2008 at 03:25 AM (#2872450)
I'd start with a request for either moderating comments on 538.com or doing away with them entirely.


DailyKos-esque comment voting could work, as long as the morons don't have too large of a majority.
   13. OsunaSakata Posted: July 25, 2008 at 09:15 AM (#2872558)
I'm surprised didn't mention another reason for shrinking the park - creating incentive to purchase season tickets - which is money in the team's pocket before the season starts - as opposed to walk-up sales - revenue they don't get until that game happens.

If you build at 40,000 and expect 38,000, you might get 35,000 in season tickets. If you build at 50,000 to accomodate the high demand games, you might get 25,000 in season tickets because people can expect to purchase walk-up tickets.
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