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Saturday, September 06, 2008

Bradford: Why I Would Take Pedroia Over A-Rod

Yea…and I would take Olive Brasno over Alix Talton.

“Insanity Grips Bradford Files” is being printed up in 100-point type on some intraweb concoction right now, I’m sure. But, as we sit here, I believe the player you want down the stretch is Pedroia, not the highest-paid baseball player in the history of historic history.

One baseball executive was asked to what player Pedroia would be equivalent if he was 6-foot-4. The answer: “Alex Rodiguez.” I’m saying save the extra nine inches for savings, Pedroia is doing more to fill the quota for baseball-playing importance than his much taller Yankee counterpart.

...That said it all right there — Pedroia likes coming to the park, likes playing baseball, likes being a teammate, and, above all, likes winning. I’m not around ARod, but that’s not the vibe I get from him. Sure, he wants to win, play well, and all that other gobblygook. But does he HAVE to have baseball every day, like Pedroia? I don’t think so. And that is the reason for one the biggest differences between the two — pure baseball instincts.

This is my thing with ARod. I just have always believed that his biggest roadblock is that his baseball instincts are just a bit off. The flaw is just big enough that it has become a serious divider between a great talent and what could be great achievements.

Repoz Posted: September 06, 2008 at 12:58 PM | 57 comment(s) | Login to Bookmark
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   1. ekogan Posted: September 06, 2008 at 01:30 PM (#2931055)
Why I Would Take Pedroia Over A-Rod

1) Younger
2) Cheaper
3) He's pre-Madonna
   2. OCD SS Posted: September 06, 2008 at 01:34 PM (#2931057)
Bradford: How did Kevin steal my log in?
   3. Lassus: Posted: September 06, 2008 at 01:37 PM (#2931060)
Stupid.
   4. AROM Posted: September 06, 2008 at 01:56 PM (#2931066)
Contract. Nothing more need be said.

About the height, I don't think it's much of an advantage in baseball. Because of his (lack of) height, it is that much harder to throw strikes to Pedroia, and he gets better pitches to hit because of it.
   5. David Concepcion de la Desviacion Estandar (Dan R) Posted: September 06, 2008 at 01:57 PM (#2931067)
Eddie Gaedel > Frank Thomas
   6. robinred Posted: September 06, 2008 at 02:00 PM (#2931069)
If I ran a small-market rebuilding team, like my teams, (Reds and Pads), I might agree, I think.

However, warts, age, she-males, chokes and all, Rodriguez is still Rodriguez, and I would take him in terms of on-field production over a five-year window if the money and length of contract were not big issues.
   7. Darren Posted: September 06, 2008 at 02:06 PM (#2931072)
If ARod didn't love baseball, "need" it, I doubt he would work so hard at it.
   8. Robert Machemer Posted: September 06, 2008 at 02:13 PM (#2931075)
If I ran a small-market rebuilding team
I know just the market you mean.
   9. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: September 06, 2008 at 02:18 PM (#2931078)
But does he HAVE to have baseball every day, like Pedroia? I don’t think so.


A-Rod? We're talking about A-Rod here. Seriously. Say what you will about the guy, but he seems to be really into baseball.

If were were talking about John Halama, then yes, I understand.
   10. RB in NYC (Now with New Running Goal!) Posted: September 06, 2008 at 02:20 PM (#2931080)
So what great players "loved" baseball in the way that scrappy white ones do? In the past week we've had basically this same column about Pedroia/A-Rod and Cody Ross/Beltran. Pete Rose definitely has that "loved the game" thing in the popular imagination, and at his best he was an elite player. Junior Griffey also probably fits that qualification. But there aren't a lot of others.

It seems that for some people, you can be ultra-talented or you can "love" the game, but you can't be both.
   11. Jon T. Posted: September 06, 2008 at 02:23 PM (#2931083)
It's not just scrappy white players, Orlando Cabrera was loved beyond reason during his time in Boston because he seemed to really love playing baseball. I'm sure there are many other examples.
   12. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: September 06, 2008 at 02:27 PM (#2931084)
Was Luis Polonia scrappy? I honestly forget. He seemed to have a scrappy game, but then he committed statutory rape.
   13. Jeff K. Posted: September 06, 2008 at 02:31 PM (#2931085)
It would be really hard to make the argument that Cal Ripken didn't love or need baseball as much as any scrappy white guy.
   14. CW hits the pinata for the candy Posted: September 06, 2008 at 02:32 PM (#2931087)
Sometimes I wonder if there were fans of the 1923 Yankees that hated that glory hound Babe Ruth - all those selfish home runs! - and much preferred the team play of Everett Scott.
   15. Blackadder Posted: September 06, 2008 at 02:33 PM (#2931089)
Hey, if Eddie Gaedel could have run the bases adequately, he would have been the best hitter in baseball history!
   16. NJ is feeling better Posted: September 06, 2008 at 02:34 PM (#2931090)
But does he HAVE to have baseball every day, like Pedroia? I don’t think so.

Of all the things you could say about A-Rod...this strikes me as one of the dumbest.
   17. philly Posted: September 06, 2008 at 02:42 PM (#2931095)
The flaw is just big enough that it has become a serious divider between a great talent and what could be great achievements.


18 comments and not a one on the use of the phrase "what could be great achievements"?
   18. David Concepcion de la Desviacion Estandar (Dan R) Posted: September 06, 2008 at 02:50 PM (#2931098)
I think that's probably a reference to his dearth of pennants.
   19. jwb Posted: September 06, 2008 at 02:51 PM (#2931099)
Tyrus Raymond Cobb: Scappiest, whitest player ever.
   20. PJ Martinez Posted: September 06, 2008 at 02:52 PM (#2931100)
I don't know much about Ty Cobb, but now that you mention it, I sort of think of him as a thinner, maybe slightly taller Pedroia who was also angry and racist. Am I wrong?
   21. The importance of being Ernest Riles Posted: September 06, 2008 at 02:57 PM (#2931104)
INSANITY GRIPS BRADFORD FILES

Hey, he was right.
   22. Darren Posted: September 06, 2008 at 03:03 PM (#2931108)
Anybody know how it came to be that Bradford left the Herald and ended up writing for WEEI? He's been one of the best writers covering the Sox over the past few years and that sounds like a large step down.
   23. Lassus: Posted: September 06, 2008 at 03:08 PM (#2931110)
Articles like this?
   24. Fred C. Dobbs Posted: September 06, 2008 at 03:09 PM (#2931111)
How exactly does one make the determination that a player loves the game? Seriously.
   25. Jeff K. Posted: September 06, 2008 at 03:13 PM (#2931113)
There are any number of good reasons why they can't, but there are times I wish athletes had a recourse to hold writers who question their motivations and desire to account for that. This example is particularly egregious, I think, given that other than "not winning World Series", the biggest criticism of Alex heretofore has been for slapping the ball, which can only be explained as wanting to win too much.

It's almost all guesswork, and writers don't even seem to be attempting to make good guesses. Yet they continue to be allowed by their editors, papers, and readers, to perform this sort of personal and career hatchet job with no repercussions.
   26. Darren Posted: September 06, 2008 at 03:15 PM (#2931115)
Articles like this?


No, I'd think this sort of thing would get him a promotion at the Herald.
   27. tjm1 Posted: September 06, 2008 at 03:16 PM (#2931116)
Anybody know how it came to be that Bradford left the Herald and ended up writing for WEEI? He's been one of the best writers covering the Sox over the past few years and that sounds like a large step down.


Maybe he had a kid or something and didn't want to be on the road half of every summer. Who knows?

How exactly does one make the determination that a player loves the game? Seriously.


There was an article recently about how Pedroia shows up 6 hours before every game, watches video, takes extra practice, etc., and where he was openly critical about unnamed teammates who do things like go sightseeing on the road. It reminded me of the part in Moneyball when Lenny Dykstra caught Billy Beane reading, and told him he shouldn't do that because it would ruin his eyes. Pedroia doesn't want anything to distract him from his primary purpose or being the best ballplayer he can. He's almost obsessive. I'm sure there are lots of other ballplayers we don't know much about who have the same attitudes, of course.
   28. Jeff K. Posted: September 06, 2008 at 03:18 PM (#2931117)
How exactly does one make the determination that a player loves the game? Seriously.

Exactly. I think you can say that it's much easier to determine who doesn't "love the game", but even that's dicey. A guy who shows up late every day, nurses injuries well past when he should, etc., that guy you can probably make the argument for not loving the game. Those are demonstrable actions. But in the universe of guys who show up on time, do what's asked of them, and all the rest (so, 99% of players), any differences you're making are personality-based. That guy doesn't smile? He doesn't love the game. That guy doesn't show up 4 hours before he's supposed to? He doesn't love the game.

The problem there is that guy just may not smile a whole lot. That other guy may love the game just as much as everyone else, but he also loves playing piano, and he values being a well-balanced person.

Another thing is this: What is "the game"? Is it baseball, the sport? Is it MLB and the context of his job? The next writer that accurately explains his term when he uses "the game" in an article like this will be the first. Guy A may love baseball way more than Guy B, but due to the way he's been treated or other factors, Guy B may love playing *in MLB* more than Guy A. Which guy loves "the game" more?
   29. Darren Posted: September 06, 2008 at 03:21 PM (#2931119)
he was openly critical about unnamed teammates who do things like go sightseeing on the road.


That's nothing, ARod once put down other players for taking time to care for their children!
   30. Jeff K. Posted: September 06, 2008 at 03:24 PM (#2931122)
There was an article recently about how Pedroia shows up 6 hours before every game, watches video, takes extra practice, etc., and where he was openly critical about unnamed teammates who do things like go sightseeing on the road.

I'm not saying this in earnest, but I think it holds the same "legitimacy" that Pedroia (if he believes what he's saying here) and the writer's arguments do:

Perhaps the only thing going on in Dustin's life is baseball. Maybe he's too stupid or simple to enjoy other things.

</aside>

Seriously, though. How is having an interest in other things besides baseball, and using non-work time to pursue those interests, somehow pejorative to your love of baseball? If I were one of Pedroia's teammates, I would be seriously pissed at that comment.

I work for the state of Texas through the University of Texas. I spend much more time at work than 99% of my colleagues who clock 40 and leave. Yet I would never dream of saying that I "love" my job more than them because of it.
   31. Fred C. Dobbs Posted: September 06, 2008 at 03:35 PM (#2931125)
There was an article recently about how Pedroia shows up 6 hours before every game, watches video, takes extra practice, etc., and where he was openly critical about unnamed teammates who do things like go sightseeing on the road. It reminded me of the part in Moneyball when Lenny Dykstra caught Billy Beane reading, and told him he shouldn't do that because it would ruin his eyes. Pedroia doesn't want anything to distract him from his primary purpose or being the best ballplayer he can. He's almost obsessive. I'm sure there are lots of other ballplayers we don't know much about who have the same attitudes, of course.


But this doesn't show that he "loves the game," it simply shows he is focused and determined to be the best. I don't know anything about A-rod's preparation (though I would hazard a guess is is pretty intense considering his physical conditioning) but maybe it has to do with Pedroia's only being in the league for three years and A-Rod having been there for 14...I mean, don't people think Pedroia's enthusiasm is gonna fade a bit? If he is still showing up 6 hours early for games 11 years from now I will be quite surprised. It's just like entering a new job...most people start out working hard and want to do a great job then the longer they are there the less effort they put in. Maybe Pedroia is one of those guys that never let up- I'm just saying it is WAY too early to tell.
   32. Francoeur Sans Gages (AlouGoodbye) Posted: September 06, 2008 at 03:36 PM (#2931126)
There was an article recently about how Pedroia shows up 6 hours before every game, watches video, takes extra practice, etc., and where he was openly critical about unnamed teammates who do things like go sightseeing on the road. It reminded me of the part in Moneyball when Lenny Dykstra caught Billy Beane reading, and told him he shouldn't do that because it would ruin his eyes. Pedroia doesn't want anything to distract him from his primary purpose or being the best ballplayer he can. He's almost obsessive. I'm sure there are lots of other ballplayers we don't know much about who have the same attitudes, of course.
But one of the guys we do know has the same attitude is... A-Rod!

But of course when A-Rod says he's working out early in the morning when others are sleeping or taking their children to school, that makes him a jerk. When Pedroia says it, it makes him a gamer. FWIW I love Dustin Pedroia, but A-Rod he ain't. Yet.
   33. NJ is feeling better Posted: September 06, 2008 at 03:53 PM (#2931132)
If he is still showing up 6 hours early for games 11 years from now

It would make him A-Rod.
   34. flournoy Posted: September 06, 2008 at 03:55 PM (#2931133)
Was Luis Polonia scrappy? I honestly forget. He seemed to have a scrappy game, but then he committed statutory rape.


How is that a problem? I don't think you can get much scrappier than that.
   35. James SC Posted: September 06, 2008 at 05:27 PM (#2931191)
My god, ok this is getting just insanely retarded. Now I guess A-Rod just doesn't "want" it enough as well? So to some people he tries to hard, is too hurt by people being down on him and to others he is apparently just such a great talent that even though he doesn't "try" enough he is the best player in the game.

You don't get to be as good as A-Rod has been on talent. He has a dogged determiniation and a drive to play this game. I love watching Pedroia hit, but if there is any fool that was putting together a team picked Pedrioa before A-Rod (not including contract values), he doesn't deserve to be writing about baseball, and certainly shouldn't be running any baseball teams.

I wonder how often A-Rod wishes he could go back and force the Union's hands to trade him to the Red Sox?
   36. ...even Chuck Norris was afraid of Jim Rice Posted: September 06, 2008 at 05:29 PM (#2931194)
Jesus, this thread just gave me a nose bleed. Is Bradford really making this argument, based on the baseless and unsustainable assumption that ARod doesn't live/breathe/eat/sleep baseball?
   37. zaniac Posted: September 06, 2008 at 06:12 PM (#2931224)
I think some are missing the point here. I would take Pedroia for the remainder of the stretch drive and postseason because of all the points I picked out. I would also take Jeter over ARod for many of the same reasons. There is a reason Pedroia made it a point to pal around with Jeter during the All-Star Game. This is the type of player he strives to be, a winning player. You are starting to see similarities in the way they approach the game, and the kind of winning instincts they both possess. And somebody asked why I moved from the Herald to WEEI.com ... Some know already, but WEEI.com is in the process of building something pretty special that is just beginning, but has the potential to transcend sports pages because of the resources, talent, and backing of the most powerful medium in New England. Just in case you cared. -- Rob Bradford
   38. Crispix Attacks Posted: September 06, 2008 at 06:16 PM (#2931227)
I don't know much about Ty Cobb, but now that you mention it, I sort of think of him as a thinner, maybe slightly taller Pedroia who was also angry and racist. Am I wrong?

Hey, let's not go bananas here and say Ty Cobb was more racist than Pedroia. Are you correcting for league and era?
   39. The District Attorney Posted: September 06, 2008 at 06:19 PM (#2931230)
I think some are missing the point here. I would take Pedroia for the remainder of the stretch drive and postseason because of all the points I picked out. I would also take Jeter over ARod for many of the same reasons. There is a reason Pedroia made it a point to pal around with Jeter during the All-Star Game. This is the type of player he strives to be, a winning player. You are starting to see similarities in the way they approach the game, and the kind of winning instincts they both possess.
Yeah. I don't think people were "missing" those points.
   40. Baldrick Posted: September 06, 2008 at 06:25 PM (#2931233)
Paging Randall...
   41. Francoeur Sans Gages (AlouGoodbye) Posted: September 06, 2008 at 06:27 PM (#2931235)
There is a reason Pedroia made it a point to pal around with Jeter during the All-Star Game. This is the type of player he strives to be, a winning player.
You slay me.
   42. Repoz Posted: September 06, 2008 at 06:39 PM (#2931240)
but WEEI.com is in the process of building something pretty special that is just beginning, but has the potential to transcend sports pages because of the resources, talent, and backing of the most powerful medium in New England.

Including, now, Will Leitch.
   43. karlmagnus Posted: September 06, 2008 at 06:44 PM (#2931245)
Personally I would take Manny over either. It's what's known as being "balanced." Neither Petunia nor A-Rod has a sense of humor, as far as I can tell.
   44. Walt Davis Posted: September 06, 2008 at 07:03 PM (#2931258)
Oh, this is easy:

Players who don't love baseball sleep with Madonna.

Players who love baseball sleep with Jessica Biel.

Players who play baseball sleep with Alyssa Milano.
   45. Marcel Posted: September 06, 2008 at 07:13 PM (#2931262)
I think some are missing the point here. I would take Pedroia for the remainder of the stretch drive and postseason because of all the points I picked out. I would also take Jeter over ARod for many of the same reasons.


Sorry Rob, but if I had to pick between a 2B or SS that hits like an average thirdbaseman and has intangibles coming out their ass or the best freakin' player in the game (non-Pujols division,) I'd have to go with the better player everytime. I really don't care about intangibiles, I care about their ability to produce runs and no player in the AL does that better than A-Rod.
   46. Fancy Pants Handle is the AntAgonizer Posted: September 06, 2008 at 07:19 PM (#2931264)
Personally I would take Manny over either. It's what's known as being "balanced." Neither Petunia nor A-Rod has a sense of humor, as far as I can tell.

Neither does your mom.
   47. ...even Chuck Norris was afraid of Jim Rice Posted: September 06, 2008 at 07:56 PM (#2931293)
WEEI is not going to transcend sports pages. Ever. The sports IQ of the target WEEI audience is extremely low and the main hosts (D&C/Arnold/Ordway) know a little bit about the four major Boston sports teams, but have a very shallow understanding of the rest of the leagues and give you nothing for college sports coverage.

Case in point, Ordway couldn't name a single player on the Hornets not named "Chris Paul" and used this as proof that no one knew anything about the Hornets last spring. Another example, neither Dale or Holley could tell you a single catcher in the Sox minor league system when a caller brought up Varitek's contract situation.

I'm not expecting a comprehensive knowledge of all of these things from everyone on the station, but my 13 year old nephew has a greater awareness on what goes on in the sports world west of the Berkshires than any of these personalities. WEEI is a source of entertainment, not a credible newssource. Tony Maz and Rob Bradford, who both come across as extremely condescending when they are called out on the radio, aren't going to make WEEI a site of interest for people who actually follow sports at the level of the BTF community.

As for Bradford's article, it's stupid. The premise that certain players are inherently "winners" (i.e. Jeter or Pedroia) or that others simply aren't (ARod) doesn't even deserve a rebuttle.
   48. Golfing Great Mitch Cumstein Posted: September 06, 2008 at 08:32 PM (#2931324)
Is zaniac Rob Bradford? If so, he has been lurking since registration was required. I don't have the access to look at all his posts, apparently.
   49. SteveF Posted: September 06, 2008 at 08:49 PM (#2931330)
Yeah. Because what we really need right now is for someone to Ringolsby Bradford right off the site.
   50. The Grich Who Stole Christmas Posted: September 06, 2008 at 09:10 PM (#2931343)
So, to recap:

Cocky player who plays for the Yankees = overrated jerk.
Cocky player who plays for the Red Sox = scrappy winner who plays for the love of the game.

Considering their track records & talent level, I think A-Rod has more of a right to be cocky than The David Eckstein 9000.
   51. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: September 06, 2008 at 09:39 PM (#2931354)
Yeah. Because what we really need right now is for someone to Ringolsby Bradford right off the site.


I think Bradford is Ringoslbying Bradford, based on the name at the end of zaniac's post.

Signed,

The guy who Ringolsbied Ringoslby.
   52. Darren Posted: September 06, 2008 at 09:47 PM (#2931356)
Rob,

Great to see you posting here and thanks for the answer.
   53. Erik A Posted: September 06, 2008 at 10:29 PM (#2931377)
I think Bradford (and a number of other writers recently) do see something legitimately unique with Pedroia - a drive to succeed that almost certainly has contributed to his success. I think Arod is just an available foil - the first guy many think of when they think of personality trumping talent. IMO, the Pedroia points are valid, but the Arod thing is not.
   54. Chase Utley, Shooty's Favorite Robot (Joey Belle) Posted: September 07, 2008 at 05:49 AM (#2931670)
The only reason anyone gives a damn about Pedroia is because he plays for the Red Sox. Stick him in Pittsburgh, and no one would care, his intangibles and gameliness wouldn't prevent the Pirates from sucking, and no one would feel the need to turn him into the messiah.
   55. tjm1 Posted: September 07, 2008 at 09:55 AM (#2931675)
The only reason anyone gives a damn about Pedroia is because he plays for the Red Sox. Stick him in Pittsburgh, and no one would care, his intangibles and gameliness wouldn't prevent the Pirates from sucking, and no one would feel the need to turn him into the messiah.


He may get more attention because he plays for the Red Sox, but people always love the little guy who can succeed despite a perceived lack of natural ability by hustling, etc. Think Kirby Puckett or Lenny Dykstra.

Considering their track records & talent level, I think A-Rod has more of a right to be cocky than The David Eckstein 9000.


Yes, ARod has more of a right to be cocky. On the other hand, Pedroia has proved more people wrong. No one ever said anything about ARod as a young player except that he would be a superstar. With Pedroia, there were a lot of people questioning what the Red Sox were thinking by drafting him in the second round. Pedroia has more of a right to have a chip on his shoulder. He manifests it in more of a playful manner than a mean-spirited one.

Now - as for the Eckstein comparison - yes, they're both short middle infielders who hustle. The comparison basically ends there. Pedroia at 23 last year put up a season much better than Eckstein ever did in his career. Eckstein didn't even make it to the majors until he was 26.
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