Whoever listed Kyle Kendrick at #2 should never be allowed to vote again.

Whoever listed Kyle Kendrick at #2 should never be allowed to vote again.

It's worse that 5 people listed Kendrick at all. He wasn't one of the six or seven best rookies in the league.

Wow. No votes for Lincecum.

Kendrick went 10-4 in 20 starts with a 119 ERA+. Who do you think was better? He likely won't replicate his success with his peripherals but his year was certainly very good. He was better than Lincecum, for example.

dare I ask, is this the first Jewish ROY award?

Kendrick went 10-4 in 20 starts with a 119 ERA+. Who do you think was better? He likely won't replicate his success with his peripherals but his year was certainly very good. He was better than Lincecum, for example.

By ERA+ he was better than Lincecum, but Lincecum was better. Regardless of that, I can see voting for Kendrick #3, but no way was he better than Tulo or Braun.

Kendrick went 10-4 in 20 starts with a 119 ERA+. Who do you think was better? He likely won't replicate his success with his peripherals but his year was certainly very good. He was better than Lincecum, for example.

Maybe I'm underrating him. I assumed he had just got the votes because of the ten wins and had no idea he had done that well. Still, I'd rank Braun, Tulo, Pence, Loney, Moylan, Owings and Lincecum ahead of him.

So someone's ballot must have been Tulowitzki-Kendrick-Braun? Check those Colorado voters.

dare I ask, is this the first Jewish ROY award?

Up till now, it's been the GOY award.

By ERA+ he was better than Lincecum, but Lincecum was better.

This is something of a pet peeve of mine. This is confusing the predictor with the criterion. Lincecum wasn't better last year. Is he likely to be better next year? Of course, because his peripherals suggest he is a better pitcher. At the end of the day, performance should be judged based on keeping runs off the board, not by how good your peripherals are.

Self-avowed lover of all things Braun... but Tulo got jobbed.

As wonderful as Braun's offensive numbers were (and a roto player knows!) - Tulo was really the whole package.

Lincecum wasn't better last year.

Well, this opens up what could be a long and interesting debate about what makes one pitcher better than another. I think Lincecum WAS better than Kendrick last year. Pitchers aren't completely in control of how many runs score on them. Defense matters and relief pitching matters and, well, depending on how much you believe in DIPS, luck matters. Lincecum struck out more guys, gave up fewer home runs in more innings, and gave up fewer hits per inning. The only thing Kendrick beats him on is walk rate. I think Lincecum was better. Now, I do agree that it's debatable whether or not Lincecum was better last year, but if we're going to have this debate, I'm on the Lincecum performed better than Kendrick side.

I don't agree with #10. A pitcher with better peripherals was more likely to actually be responsible for keeping those runs off the board, since the player with lousy peripherals had to rely a lot on his defense.

You are one step away from saying we should just judge pitcher performance based on wins/losses since that's the name of the game anyway.

dare I ask, is this the first Jewish ROY award?

Does Rod Carew count?

Self-avowed lover of all things Braun... but Tulo got jobbed.

Hardly "jobbed". 1972 USA basketball got "jobbed". Braun had a higher slugging percentage as a rookie than any player that has ever played the game.

Congratulations Hebrew Hammer!

Does Rod Carew count?

"He converted."

Does Rod Carew count?


"He converted."

Man, Rod Carew might have achieved total joke immunity, no?

Braun helped win me fantasy championships. He deserves it.

I never understood this. I mean, he couldn't help being black and all, but why on earth did he decide to turn jew?

If this is a joke, it's not funny. If it's not, seek help.

dare I ask, is this the first Jewish ROY award?

Yes and No:
Ryan "the Hebrew Hammer" Braun has a Jewish Father and a non-Jewish Mother...According to traditional Jewish law (in regards to descent, this is held by the Orthodox and Conservative movements in the USA) this makes him not-Jewish...According to the policy of the Reform ("liberal" in Europe) movement, he is considered Jewish by patralinneal descent (ignore my spelling)...The above is in accordance with the old religious maxim "Mother's Baby...father's maybe"...So, I will not play religio-social-identity politics with this one and will instead just congratulate Mr. Braun on his outstanding rookie season. If there is one thing I know, however, it is that Rod Carew is not Jewish...He is married to a Jewish woman, has agreed to help raise his children Jewish, but he himself is not Jewish nor has he ever converted to the Jewish faith.

Quick quiz question...Who is the youngest Jewish (by Jewish law..although I don't think he acknowledged himself) Manager in Major League history? Need a hint? He is not Sandy Koufax and he is not Hank Greenberg but he is the long lost 3rd Jew in the Hall of Fame (sort of like the "Pete Best" of Jewish Hall of Famers

Lou Boudreau

No...Not Willie Mays.... I will give you another hint....He has never been in my kitchen.

If this is a joke, it's not funny. If it's not, seek help.

It was an Archie Bunker line to Sammy Davis Jr.

First off, it's Russlan, not Russian. Second, I apologize. It looks like it was a joke and I didn't get it because I am ignorant of the context. My bad.

Barry's Lazy Boy wins a free subscription to Baseballthinkfactory.org.

Barry's Lazy Boy wins a free subscription to Baseballthinkfactory.org.

Aw man. Lucky bastard. I never win anything.

It is skill, not luck. Helps that a guy in my APBA league is obsessed with Lou.

No...Not Willie Mays.... I will give you another hint....He has never been in my kitchen.

Henny Youngman's wife?

Wow, you've got 13,600 posts and I never noticed it wasn't Russian.

Wow, you've got 13,600 posts and I never noticed it wasn't Russian.

To be fair, the great majority of my posts are in Met game chatters. Second, people do it all the time. It's funny because I might be the exact opposite of Russian.

The right two guys finished at the top; argue amongst yourselves on orthidoxy of the order.

But not a single vote for Josh Hamilton??? Especially with Chris (OPS+ 89) Young getting 10 votes?

To be fair, the great majority of my posts are in Met game chatters. Second, people do it all the time. It's funny because I might be the exact opposite of Russian.

Kenyan?

Ryan "the Hebrew Hammer" Braun has a Jewish Father and a non-Jewish Mother

oh wow, here I was thinking he was a full-blood Tribe member. Oh well, nothing to be ashamed of. He's not Dustin Hoffman, but Paul Newman's still good.

According to the article, if Tulo was robbed, it was not just by the BBWAA:

Other organizations had already chosen Braun. He was named the league's top rookie by both Baseball America and Baseball Prospectus, then won a Player's Choice Award as the top NL rookie. But balloting for that award, which was selected by fellow big leaguers, took place in mid-September, before the Rockies began their surge.

These are two outstanding players. Either one would have been a good choice. Congratulations to the fans of the Rockies and Brewers, who will be enjoying their play for several years to come.

I might be the exact opposite of Russian

Ukrainian?

;-)

Kenyan?

Texan?

Braun had a higher slugging percentage as a rookie than any player that has ever played the game.

And yet, not the highest SLP of any ROY ever.

Braun had a .634 in 492 PA.

Wally Berger had .614 in 625 PA
Albert Pujols had .610 in 676 PA
Ted Williams had .609 in 677 PA

He is one of the top rookie hitters ever. He is far from the best rookie hitters ever.

edited for clarity and to change lowest to highest.

Dark-skinned Arab, for those that are wondering.

It's funny because I might be the exact opposite of Russian.

(looks at globe)

You're from Easter Island?

These are two outstanding players. Either one would have been a good choice. Congratulations to the fans of the Rockies and Brewers, who will be enjoying their play for several years to come.

5 more years to be exact!

"In Russlan, AITF makes jokes about you!"

I have read Miserlou's post 10 times and I still can't figure it out.

I have read Miserlou's post 10 times and I still can't figure it out.

try again. I made some corrections.

I have read Miserlou's post 10 times and I still can't figure it out.

I think because he meant to say "And yet, not the highest SLP of any ROY ever. It appears MLB.com was incorrect in stating Braun's SLG relative to other rookies.

EDIT:

McCovey didn't have enough PA to qualify when he was ROY; hence, the comment about Braun was correct at MLB.com.

Ahhh the edit function. Making me look dumb since 2006.

McCovey didn't have enough PA to qualify when he was ROY; hence, the comment about Braun was correct at MLB.com.

Qualify for what? If it is the batting title, neither did Braun.

Was Manny Corpas not eligible or did voters simply ignore how dominant he was? Surely 78 high leverage innings with a 231 ERA+ are worth at least some consideration.

Corpas spent exactly 45 non-September days on the big league roster last year and was under in the innings limit. I have never been able to find out if you're still a rookie if you hit exactly 45, and I've looked in quite a few places (with about a 50-50 split in wording). BPro for one thinks he's a rookie, and he did have a higher VORP than Kendrick, Lincecum, and Moylan (slightly).

Corpas was not a rookie.

Qualify for what? If it is the batting title, neither did Braun.

Good point. Missed that.

Corpas was not a rookie.

Source?

Even though Braun didn't qualify for the batting title, he'd still have the highest slugging percentage of any Rookie because even if you add 10 hitless AB (enough to qualify for the batting title), his slugging percentage would be .620.

Judging by the columns in October when the Rockies made the World Series, the sportswriters had never heard of Corpas or any of the other Rockies, so its no surprise he got no votes.

The highest SLP by a ROY is by Willie McCovey with a .656 in 219 PA in 1959.

The highest SLP by a rookie who qualified for the batting title under the rules of his time is .621 by George Watkins in 424 PA (and in 113 games. The rules at the time required 100 games to qualify) in 1930

The highest SLP by a rookie who qualified for the batting title under today's rules (3.1 PA for every team game), is .614 in 625 PA by Wally Berger in 1930.

The highest SLP by a rookie who didn't qualify for the batting title, but who, with the required 0'fers added to his batting line to make him eligible and have him still come out on top, is Ryan Braun with a .634 in 492 PA. Adding 10 AB's to his line to qualify him drops his SLP to .620, which is .006 higher than Berger.

Under definition 4, MLB.com is correct.

Again, one of the best rookie sluggers ever. Far from THE best. And far from the definitive "best rookie slugging season ever".

Edit.

Actually, what I wrote may not be entirely accurate. I based my post on a BBREF PI search of first year players with PA => 200, sorted by SLP. There may be someone who had a cup of coffee and was still eligible in year 2, 3, or whatever, who would fit into here somewhere.

According to bb-ref, you have to spend fewer than 45 non-September days on the roster to qualify as a rookie.

In addition, BPro is the only major source that referred to Corpas as a rookie. Here in Colorado, neither of the papers ever considered him a rookie. It simply wasn't an issue.

Given the way relief pitchers are used these days, the eligibilty rules really ought to include a factor for number of games pitched. Corpas came in under the innings limit last year, but he did pitch in 35 games, which is enough for most people to take that as his rookie year.

I think I recall BPro ignoring the days requirement before, but there are other sites out there which list it as "can not have more than 45 non-September days...". I had seen B-R, but the anecdote about the local papers probably means he wasn't eligible.

Thanks.

The highest SLP by a rookie who qualified for the batting title under today's rules (3.1 PA for every team game), is .614 in 625 PA by Wally Berger in 1930.

Mac had .618 in 641 PA.

The highest SLP by a rookie who qualified for the batting title under today's rules (3.1 PA for every team game), is .614 in 625 PA by Wally Berger in 1930.


Mac had .618 in 641 PA.

Russlan: Even though Braun didn't qualify for the batting title, he'd still have the highest slugging percentage of any Rookie because even if you add 10 hitless AB (enough to qualify for the batting title), his slugging percentage would be .620.

OK, doing a search for first or second year players, I find Rudy York with a .651 in 375 PA (104 games, so he qualified under the rules of his time), in 1937. He had played in 3 games in 1936.

God damn it! I bet Kyle that Tulo would win and he would have to suck my balls, but he bet on that jew so now I have to sing Heat of the Moment in front of the whole ####### class. This is totally gay.

Mac had .618 in 641 PA.

Yes. See my edit in #58. My initial search was for first year players only. I believe the true rookie slugging champ is Rudy York, who had a qualifying (at the time) .651 in 1937.

BTW, this post is a result of searching the BBREF PI for players in their first three years. If there is a rookie qualified player who had 3 cups 'o' Joe and a SLP in the range of the others, I give.

BTW, even going out to players in their first 3 years, and PAs of only 200 or more, Braun's .634 SLP is the 11th best all time. That is impressive. 7 of the seasons ahead of him are by HOFers, one by Pujols, and one each by Ryan Howard and Rudy York.

Regardless of Braun's bloodlines, its my understanding that he's a practicing, Bar Mitzvahed Jew.

Yom Kippur, the Jewish holiday of the Day of Atonement, begins just before sundown on Sept. 21, and some wondered whether that meant Brewers third baseman Ryan Braun would sit out two games. He cleared it up on Friday. "I am half Jewish, and I am not Orthodox," Braun said. "So I never grew up celebrating the holidays. I'm going to play."

link

Dark-skinned Arab, for those that are wondering.

Hm... Ruslan (or Russlan) is a Russian name, so I am guessing... Azerbaijan?

Anyhow, I think Braun's definitely deserving. Tulowitzki was pumped up hugely by Buck and McCarver during the post season, not to mention the fact that he was a .719 OPS hitter away from Coors. Braun was definitely more deserving.

This is something of a pet peeve of mine. This is confusing the predictor with the criterion. Lincecum wasn't better last year. Is he likely to be better next year? Of course, because his peripherals suggest he is a better pitcher. At the end of the day, performance should be judged based on keeping runs off the board, not by how good your peripherals are.

It's not confusing the predictor with the criteria, it's disagreeing about what the criteria is. I don't think Lincecum should have rated better than Kendrick because I think he'll be a better pitcher in the future - I think he should have rated better because he pitched better than him this year.

The reason he projects better by the way is because he pitched better this year. If I thought Kendrick had pitched better this year, I'd probably (stuff aside) project Kendrick to pitch better in the future.

Regardless of Braun's bloodlines, its my understanding that he's a practicing, Bar Mitzvahed Jew.

I've heard the opposite, actually.

MIL Journal-Sentinel:

The news today that Ryan Braun is the National League's Rookie of the Year is great news for the team and the team's efforts at marketing the team.
...
Specific numbers are not available, but Schlesinger said the Brewers were in the top 5 in the major leagues in the sale of player shirts. "The numbers have been great so far, and I'm expecting greater growth because of our new store," Schlesinger said.

Sure, Packer gear is always amongst the highest-selling stuff nationally, but the Brewers?

He is not Sandy Koufax and he is not Hank Greenberg but he is the long lost 3rd Jew in the Hall of Fame (sort of like the "Pete Best" of Jewish Hall of Famers
Willie Mays?
Lou Boudreau
Ty Cobb?

Zack "Unleavened" Wheat?

Sure, Packer gear is always amongst the highest-selling stuff nationally, but the Brewers?

I'm not surprised. These are the same intense, over the top fans that follow the Packers and Badgers. They are a hard core bunch, it is not like the Brewers are pulling in latte swilling sissy fans like Seattle or disaffected Arizona fans.

>Tulo got jobbed

Yes. 10 years from now people will be going, "Ryan who?"

Yes. 10 years from now people will be going, "Ryan who?"

Perhaps. But see post 66. No one's forgotten Ted Williams, Chuck Klein, Joe Dimaggio, Albert Pujols, Willie Mays, Willie McCovey, Ralph Kiner, or Eddie Mathews. Nor are they likely to forget Albert Pujols, or Alex Rodriguez. Many still remember Rudy York, and people will probably remember Ryan Howard. Those players, along with Braun, hold the top 13 SLP (Braun is # 11) seasons with over 200 PA among players in their first three MLB seasons.

Hm... Ruslan (or Russlan) is a Russian name, so I am guessing... Azerbaijan?

Azerbaijan isn't an Arab country.

You are correct that Russlan (or Ruslan) is a predominantly Russian name but don't think that's the origin of my name. The sultans of the Seljuk Dynasty often had the name of Arslan, which is very similar to Russlan when written in Arabic. That's where I think it comes from.

Russ beats Arse.

Zack "Unleavened" Wheat?

Natzoh much him, I think.

Azerbaijan isn't an Arab country.

You are correct that Russlan (or Ruslan) is a predominantly Russian name but don't think that's the origin of my name. The sultans of the Seljuk Dynasty often had the name of Arslan, which is very similar to Russlan when written in Arabic. That's where I think it comes from.

I see. Brain fart on my part, should've read the Arab part more carefully (I'm Iranian, so I know how that is). I've seen the name Arslan, never made the Russlan connection though. Interesting :-D