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Cole Hamels says "spare me."
Or he could join a women's extreme fighting circuit.
Edit: spelling
you guys are good
There was a PBA Experience league here last year. A bunch of 220 bowlers tried it out, the high average was 185 or so. Bo Burton bowled in it, though he said they weren't that much like the pro conditions.
I practiced on them after the league a couple of time. They were definitely tough, my high was only 172.
Sounds like a headline we'd hear if A-Rod were a pitcher.
You want the lane slicked up in certain spots in a house shot. The oil pattern typical is like a top hat. Oil in the first few feet, then no oil on the outside of both lanes and, of course, none the last 20 feet of the lane. Pro oil patterns are purposely less uniform to make the conditions more challenging. Think of your public golf course versus a pro course.
Thank you.
Not a good choice of props for Myers.
Question: It's always been my thought that those old-fashioned alleys were MUCH easier than the modern, oil-slicked versions. Is that true? Do you really need a lot more skill to bowl a 300 game today than you used to way back when?
Okay, I've now read the thread, and I see that AJM's pretty much answered my question. It's a bit like the difference between the super tight shimmed pockets on the pool tables you have in the pro men's nine ball tournaments vs. the sloppy seconds pockets you see with the women on the WPBA tour events on ESPN.
No mo...Haven't picked up the holed-rock in years.
But I'm sure 57-year old Mark Roth...after placing a heavy Ranger hockey bet, wolfing down a few fully-fixed Paramustardy hot-dogs, unleash a squishy brown resin shiitbag in the bathroom and huff a nose twisting jar of Nu-Skin...could still kick Myers' ten-in-the-pityless ass.
Twenty or thirty years ago if you had a 300 bowled by an amateur in a league, the lane had to be shut down after the league and the USBC would send lane inspectors out in the next day or two looking for anything they could find to disallow the game. I bet half the 300 games bowled in leagues back then (and it wasn't very many) were disallowed.
It's not so much that the lanes are easier, it's that they are oiled precisely by machine so the same shot is always there. The synthetic lanes don't soak oil like the old wood lanes (which would do that unevenly). The other major factor working for today's bowlers is the modern ball, which pretty much hooks for you. The bird-brained 20-somethings still want to crank it up with Roth-like revs, but that's not even the way to win in leagues. And if you bowl like that on Tour you better be accurate to within an inch or so in either direction. There are about five guys in the world who can be with that plant-your-foot-and-rip-it approach.
So all in all, how would a 200 game on a wooden alley that was oiled only periodically (and might have been right next to a radiator) roughly translate into a modern regular lane and a modern pro tour lane? (I didn't even know until now that they don't still use wooden lanes. When did they switch? And do they look any different?)
First 200 game I ever bowled was when I was 12, and it was on the end lane of an upstairs inner city alley that WAS sitting right next to a radiator. IIRC you aimed your ball straight at the gap between the 6 and the 10 (no hook necessary) and the lane did the rest. Cheap thrill at 25 cents a game--or "line", as they used to call it.
I've had 2 300 games. My first one was in 1986, and I was the only person in the entire house for the entire season to have one. I was averaging 205, which was the 4th or 5th best average that season for the entire association.
My second one was in 2005. I averaged 212 that season. There were 41 300 games....in the league I was in (yes, it was a very high-average league). I don't know exactly where 212 ranked for average, but when they listed the top 25 averages for the year, I wasn't on the list.
The technology has outpaced ability.
Interesting how things are working this year. There's a group of guys who don't take it very seriously at all. Some throw it hard - not hard and crank it, but just hard and straight like some young guys do. They are running away with the league this year. The conditions are very kind strike-wise to anyone who throws hard like that with hardly any hook. The big hookers are doing okay, and the guys like me with a moderate hook are struggling a lot.
As for wood, it's not that they were harder to bowl on. But league conditions were tougher because of the degree to which the lanes varied. Also, no one complained. Now if a shot isn't there a few weeks straight for the top bowlers in a particular house, they run up like little babies and complain to the owner, who almost always responds with a new, easier shot. People don't want to bowl anymore. They want to score. I like going to the lanes after the FDU women's team practices on that NCAA Slop Shot, which is literally a swamp of oil from gutter to gutter. If you miss your mark by a board, you miss your pin -- no exceptions.
Great to see people interested in bowling. About 30 years ago, a tourney winner would get a check for about $40 K. The average salary then was probably half that. Now they get a check for $25 K most weeks if they're lucky and good enough to win. But these guys are real athletes, IMO. At least as much as golfers. I'm trying to work with the PBA on some content that will convey to people just how hard it is to be a top pro.
short answer No, long answer Hell no. it's so much easier to bowl a 300 now than any time in the past that bowling one is nice, but nobody honest with themselves nowadays would compare themselves in skill with a person in the past. Bowling now is more or less a joke to carry a 200+ average.
In 1980 my dad bowled on the travelling league in St Louis, carrying barely a 200 average and was considered one of the best bowlers in the city, nowadays everyone carries a 200 average. not kidding. Today's game you don't even need to know how to bowl, just how to crank and speed.
I have no games in the 270's. 299, 288, then 269.
Ouch.
BTW...After hours we used to bowl overhand for cash...until one guy clipped a sprinkler on the ceiling and we all split the indoor rainstorm as the town rigs were coming.
I bowled juniors at a Castle Lanes in SF many, many, many years ago.
Ouch indeed. I had two of those in a 3 week period in 2006.
No, these Castle Lanes were in Jersey.
It now houses a lawyers group...so at least it has remained a "rigged house"
I used to work at a house in Cambridge called "Lanes and Games", on Rte 2 down by Alewife. It had candlepin and ten pin lanes. I used to hook up that machine that oiled the ten pin lanes. I'd set it in the gutters at the foul line, push the button and watch it oil the first 30 feet of the lane, and watch it return to me. Repeat until all lanes oiled.
The candlepin lanes were only dusted with mop. Candlepin balls don't grab the lane. They slide down the length of the alley. My ball had a back-up spin on it, so it would start out right to left but break back to the right near the pins. Most decent candlepin bowlers throw it harder that ten pin bowlers.
short answer No, long answer Hell no. it's so much easier to bowl a 300 now than any time in the past that bowling one is nice, but nobody honest with themselves nowadays would compare themselves in skill with a person in the past. Bowling now is more or less a joke to carry a 200+ average.
I honestly didn't realize that. Sounds a lot like today's SATs.
Great to see people interested in bowling. About 30 years ago, a tourney winner would get a check for about $40 K. The average salary then was probably half that. Now they get a check for $25 K most weeks if they're lucky and good enough to win. But these guys are real athletes, IMO. At least as much as golfers. I'm trying to work with the PBA on some content that will convey to people just how hard it is to be a top pro.
Salfino, if you ever have any luck with that, I wish you'd lend your talent to promoting pool. That's a sport that takes nearly incomprehensible skill and stamina to play on the professional level, and yet in 2007 exactly three players in the entire world earned over $100,000---for the entire year. A guy I know plays in every pro tournament and regional tournament he can find, travels around the world to play, was ranked in the top 10 in the U.S. and 33rd in the world in a poll conducted among players, and in 2007 finished in the money in over 30 tournaments.
His total winnings for the year were $36,700. Maybe I should tell him to take up bowling.
Unfortunately, the nearest places are more than 1000 mile away.
Yeah, the planets and stars were in the proper alignment those occasions.
I averaged 110-112 most of my "career". One year I averaged 116 and bowled in the "open" class in the MA state tournament. The singles event was a 10 stringer, and I started slow, but bowled a 450 my last 3 strings to finish at 1193. There were 2 to a lane in that event, and the guy I bowled with was an long time pro from Maine named Al Gallant. I was 22 or so, he was 60 something. After 9 strings, he was at 1200, and in the hunt for first. He tired and bowled a 101 for a 1301, which got him somewhere in the top 20. I was way back, near the bottom.
There were several dozen spectators that day, and during the last couple strings, we had about 30 people watching us. I'm sure some of them were there for Al. I brought no one, but they cheered for me the last couple strings as well as for him. I remember being embarrassed by the attention.
I stopped bowling when we bought our house in 1997. I'd bowled for about 20 years, and at that point decided I'd rather be at home with my wife than at the alleys. Last year, I came out of retirement and bowled the last half of the season (Jan to May). I set a goal to average 108 by the end of the year. I only got to 100. I had really good night...a 369. After that night I thought 330's would come easy. The next week I bowled a 289 or something like that, and then I knew it wasn't gonna come back.
The funny thing is that I felt physically stronger last year than I did 10 years ago. So much so that I was overthrowing and couldn't keep the ball on the alley. In warm-ups, everything I threw hard went way left. So I had to throw at half speed to keep it around the head pin. But I wasn't as consistent as I was ten years ago, and it didn't seem like I was gonna ever be that good again, so at the end of the year I was leaning towards quitting again, and I did.
One more highlight: One string I had eleven marks (spares or strikes). A had a strike in the 10th box (frame), punched out the half Worcester left (the 2 pin and the 8 pin,leaving the other 8 standing). Then, I converted that for the spare on strike, for a 178 string.
Extra credit question: What's the derivation of the term "half-Worcester"?
In candlepin, 100 is a good score, 140 is outstanding, and I've never seen a 180 and we have some good leagues up here.
Tons of laughs. Good times.
I don't think pool's lack of popularity as a spectator event revolves around people thinking it's easy. There are a lot of things that are really hard to do but boring to watch--millions of people feel this way about baseball, for example. On the other hand, televised poker seems to be finding an audience, so maybe there is hope for billiards.
Er, up in the northeast of where, now?
I bowled in a league in jr. high. It has been awhile since I bowled, and I've always loved it, but (GET OFF MY LAWN) it has gotten so damned expensive now. When I was in Portland in the 90's we played every week on the $1-a-game nights, which was a favorite for the various broke stoners and hipsters. I realize that was special, but even on the NON-stoner nights it wasn't all that much more. In the NYC now, it's about $10 a game. ACK! Granted, that is the "HIP" manhattan places, it may be less out in the recesses of Queens or SI.
Can someone give me an idea of what a weekday night game costs in a less-populated area? I'm curious what the average is these days.
As far as pool, what's your game, Andy? I'm in a straight-pool league, and I'm thinking of finding a snooker league to play in. That is one hard game, but a great combination of a lot of skills that cut across many of the standard smaller-table games.
But that was nearly a year ago.
And you're right, it often provokes the same sort of "BO-RING" comments that baseball does, for just that reason. OTOH you can compete against some of the best players in the world in regional tournaments for an entry fee of $65.00. And you can get a seat in the front row (about eight feet from the table) for the entire week of the U.S. Nine Ball Open for considerably less than a box seat behind the plate for a frozen night game between the Nats and the Marlins. So perhaps there's something to be said for a lack of popularity---for the live spectator, baseball itself was a vastly better dollar value a couple of generations ago than it is today. Not even close.
Same as it ever was. Forty years ago, when I was an undergrad in the Boston area, Stasia Czernicki ruled the lanes and the Saturday afternoon airwaves. Just looked her up now on Wikipedia; sad to see that she's been dead for quite a while.
I play only nine ball---I absolutely loathe eight ball---but if they had snooker tables around here and some decent gambling action or tournaments, I'd love to play that game again, because of the big tables, small pockets, and the required skill sets. (The two best women nine ball players in the world both grew up playing snooker in England and Ireland.) They used to have a snooker table in every pool room in North Carolina when I was at Duke in the 60's, and I loved the game.
I remember once going to Toronto on vacation in 1975, and wandering over to the pool room nearest to my downtown hotel. It was a walk-up that was almost invisible from the street, but when I got up there I discovered a jam-packed room (and on a Tuesday afternoon, no less) with about fifty 6' x 12' snooker tables, all in perfect condition. I thought I'd died and gone to heaven, until I found out that in that entire pool room, not one person wanted to play for more than two dollars a game. But I'd still love to see a place like that here in the DC area.
Maybe you can teach Pete Rose some snooker. ;-)
Something about 9-ball (which at varying times I've played quite a bit of) doesn't always stick with me. Too quick. I get the feeling, however, that if there were more than 2 snooker tables in all of Manhattan I'd abandon straight pool for it.
When I win the lottery, my first purchases will be a Bösendorfer grand and a snooker table. Er, after I find the apartment these items would fit in.
The Phillies aren't worried about it. I volunteer with an organization that the team sponsors, and for a few years we've had a bowling fundraising event where several players participate. Usually more position players, but among pitchers I know at least Randy Wolf has rolled.
Edit: the event is in-season, btw.
But, I was playing pool in a place called "Mr. Reds" in Utica in the 80's. It may not have been NY, but Utica was no picnic either. Mr. Reds had bullet holes in the walls and a sign that stated in absolute seriousness: "DO NOT SIT ON HEAT DUCKS".
The Dave Stieb of bowling.
Best Regards
John
No kidding. Though I'd be more pissed if I actually threw a good shot on the last ball.
And for all the years I bowled, I've never had a wrist injury.
I'm always hurting something. I've hurt my wrist, my knee, and I haven't bowled since May because of my elbow.
...with some woman's severed head?
in the military, the only thing we ever played was eight ball, and I despised nine ball thinking it was slop only, hooked up with a girl who's dad owned a pool hall and I saw some good nine ball playing that made me respect it, years later I'm at a ball and all of these guys were playing nine ball and I saw some of the most amazing shooting imagineable and I learned to appreciate that game much better, the whole concept of not calling a shot will still always bother me, but at the upper levels nine ball players are pretty good.
as to watching it on tv, sorry the best players rarely play, and outside of two women, I've never seen a wommen on tv that could beat me consistently at pool...and I personally know several women that can beat me consistently, but the girls on tv just suck. (except the asian girl and one other one) the guys on the other hand are good, but I've seen 3 times more female pool aired on tv than quality pool.
You're right, though, about the lack of good TV coverage of the men, although YouTube has lots of good matches, including the entire final round of the recent World Cup. The main problem for this is that the politics of the men's tour (which isn't even a tour these days) is cannibalistic, and splintered in all different directions. The women are a lot smarter and better organized.
And I totally agree that while nine ball's by far the best game, the luck factor is annoying. But it isn't so much the lucked in balls (after the break, that rarely happens), it's the lucky snookers after a miss (which happens a LOT). Grady Matthews deals with this in his tournaments with a rule that says if you miss a shot without calling "safety" beforehand, your opponent has the option of making you shoot again. It's a great rule, but most players (I'm an exception) feel that (a) it slows down the game too much, and (b) the luck evens out in the long run. They're right, but in a hill-hill game those lucky safes can tend to really plss you off.
We used to play for 45 minutes to an hour before our league started. If you were hot, you could win 80 bucks. Not bad.
I once saw a payball game in Dayton that over the course of 3 or 4 days attracted all the best players in the country, who were in town for the biggest tournament of the year. At one point there were seven players in the game, playing for $50 on each of the lower balls and $100 on the 7. At one point I went for a water change and when I got back to the table less than five minutes later, a hustler named Denny Searcy from San Francisco had just broke and ran two racks. Do the math: 2 x (6 x 350 x 2) = $8400 in less than five minutes. Not bad for 1974 dollars.
I sharked a couple of rich jerk kids playing 8-ball in college (Literally, a couple. One freshman year, one junior year, perhaps all the more satisfying by the lack of frequency.) at around $50-$75 each time and I've won over the last 15 years maybe $100 total in various rounds off my stepfather and his friends. I really am one of those "love of the game" guys, though, money doesn't make it more or less satisfying. It is the WINNING that's satisfying to me. Gym teacher parents. ;-)
For me, love of the game is not about winning but doing my best. Not that winning is not satisfying, but I'd play anyone for the fun of it, even if they are likely to beat me easily.
My best friend of my late teen years was strictly interested in the betting, though. He and I were an odd mix; I wrote up my eulogy for him.
Unless you're a true world class player, that's the only approach to the game that will keep you from going insane. Of all the hundreds of people I've known in my life who might consider themselves "pool players," there are exactly two who've made and kept serious money. One of them is a retired mailman with rare money management skills, and the other was (he died a few years ago) a child prodigy who may have been the most talented player I've ever seen, and he made his real money by parlaying his winnings into real estate that he placed in his mother's name. It's a great game with absolutely no real money in it for anyone other than maybe the top dozen or so players in the world, exactly three of them at this point (Shane, Jeannette, and Johnny Archer) being Americans.
Funny pool story relating to baseball: The White Sox broadcaster Ken Harrelson used to fancy himself a pool shark, and even bragged about it in his early book, Hawk. When he played for the expansion Senators back in 1966-67 he used to come into the old Brunswick Billiards on Irving Street looking for action. He wound up losing to practically everyone he matched up with, including one guy who never ran three racks in a row in his entire life. He and Michael Jordan are the two athletes that I would've loved to get on a table. Guys like that have no idea just how tough the game really is when people shoot back at you.
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