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Sunday, May 10, 2009
Brew Crew Ball: Why Bob Brenly Hates Ryan Braun
Has anyone caught Mitch Williams’ crusher broomfieldian one-man gangup of Ryan Braun on MLB hugwork? Sad.
The Cubs broadcast shows that Braun was indeed hollering a bit as he approached home plate during his home run trot, and he certainly stared down Dempster after getting out of the box. I can understand taking offense to that, but I think context has to be considered, namely Braun’s heightened anxiety from the previous plate appearance; homering off the guy that, intentionally or not, buzzed your tower has to be cathartic. Cubs fans will no doubt point out the additional context of Braun’s history of somewhat flamboyant home run celebrations, and that’s valid, but I think the key here is that this is was not a premeditated, elaborate ritual, but rather a spontaneous outburst of victory after a perceived direct challenge. I’m more on board with the antipathy toward his standard airplane-arms saturnalia.
Okay, so that’s how I feel about it; Bob Brenly, the Cubs color announcer, clearly feels a bit different. In fact, besides making fun of the size of Braun’s eyeballs, he said the following:
Braun had some issues with some rib muscles early in the season; he may have some issues with his rib muscles as this season progresses if he acts like that on every home run he hits.
I’ll leave it to you to decide whether Brenly is advocating violence against Braun or merely predicting it. I guess it’s a good thing Brenly didn’t get the Brewers gig and have to manage someone he so detests, eh?
Repoz
Posted: May 10, 2009 at 09:02 AM | 94 comment(s)
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That's pretty clever. I posted that in the game chatter too. It was a fairly meaningless home run. Personally, I don't have a problem with guys watching their homers (the Soriano or Manny ####), but I do have a problem when it turns to showing up the pitcher. Dempster had just given up a home run to Craig ####### Counsell, which means the home run Braun hit wasn't that difficult or impressive. Braun's hit much more important homers against the Cubs (like the game winner Friday, or the wild card clincher last season).
And for the record, I doubt Dempster was throwing at Braun. 1-0 count, runner on first, and only 1 out. Dempster's control was erractic last night. Of course, Braun should just shut up since the pitch didn't hit him (it hit his bat) and he got first base anyway. It was one of those pitchers that the batter ducks into which makes it closer to their head too (and it wasn't a fastball).
I'm pretty sure I've heard Brenly make similar comments about Soriano, FWIW.
Also, I certainly don't think this is evidence that he "detests" Braun. That's ridiculous. It appears to me that battlekow is being hypersensitive to how the Cubs broadcasters are treating his team.
Furthermore, who cares?
I wrote this post. What did you find appallingly bad about it?
Certainly sounds like Mitch Williams does. Wanting to blacken his eyes, "wear a pitch", teach him a lesson, blahdee-da...asshump.
What is the basis for that comment?
And what would post #1 be but crying about what someone said?
To me it seems that ALL of the young brewers players do this kind of thing after nearly every good thing they do. Between that and the shirt-untucking, it's hard not to dislike almost all of them, but Braun seems to be the worst of them at it, so he gets remembered for it the most. Or maybe he's just the best player.
I'm guessing it's about the same way cubs and brewers fans felt about edmonds 4-5 years ago, except that edmonds never did anything as blatant as untuck his shirt after a win. I was rooting for the brewers when they played the cubs this week, and it still caused my blood pressure to rise watching those punks do that after they beat them the first 2 games.
That just a clever turn of a phrase. Concluding from it that Brenly "detests" Braun is just, well, ridiculous.
JAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJA
you're joking, right?
Let me guess...not only do these guys untuck their shirts, they do it with panache.
You're a loser.
Umm, ok.
As others have noted, I think it's quite a bit of a stretch to suggest that Brenley would have had a problem managing Braun because of his statements here. Also, in general I find fan fascination with rivals' broadcast and/or beat writers to be hysterical.
Yes, because intentionally bringing up Fielder as the winning run with 2 outs in the 9th would be such brilliant baseball strategy.
I think this is supposed to be sarcasm, but sarcasm should have some logic or relate to what was said in some way.
All I said was I don't see how it matters at all how someone celebrates (before anyone goes here, obviously there are limits that make the game unplayable or break existing rules).
I'll say again, if you don't like the other player's celebration, then don't give up the HR in the first place.
I think every player should be thoughtful, and dedicate every HR to a make-a-wish kid, etc. But not everyone is a saint, and that makes the game interesting.
Well, you're probably right that Brenly does not harbor some sort of deep-seated hatred for Braun, but he was definitely upset with him. We tend to reach for hyperbole to make points (see: "appallingly bad").
As for the fascination with the Cubs' broadcast, if you read my entire post, I was presenting it to my fellow Brewers fans in an effort to be informative, because the Brewers' broadcast neglected to show most of Braun's antics. Inevitably, Cubs fans trickle over to our blog whenever anything happens between to two teams, and I thought it would be much more helpful if we could at least agree on what Braun did and didn't do before arguing about how we felt about what he did.
It's intended for a very specific demographic (i.e. Brewers fans), and why Repoz posted it, I have no idea; I certainly didn't submit it to BTF. Actually, I know exactly why Repoz posted it: he likes to start ####.
Well...besides that, I was really disgusted by the over-the-top comments by putriddled Mitch Williams (MLB Hugwork hasn't put up the video) on how Braun should be "handled"...and the BCC link was the only thing I could find.
If the HR isn't a walk off win job, the celebration should be identical. It should mirror exactly the celebration of a single, a double, or a strike out. Run the bases. Go to the dugout. Get your glove. When did baseball players become emotive children?
The Counsell HR is hilaripus.
I'm glad the Mets have David Wright, but Rolen is a damn fine ballplayer all around.
A little heat is good for everyone.
It's solely his obnoxiousness on the field that I'm basing it off of. He could be a saint off the field for all I know.
Judging by Canseco's behavior, terminal assholery?
Nothing wrong with showing emotion out there. If you strike someone out to get out of the inning, it's okay to be a little animated when you come off the field. If you hit a walk off shot, it's fine to do that silly little helmet slapping thing at home plate. What's not okay is to act like every single positive outcome is an excuse to show off like a 7th grader. Act like a man. Pretend like you've been there before. Leave the adolescent monkey posturing with your 20th birthday.
And get your showboating asses off of my ####### lawn!
Woo! Completed my spreadsheets at work! High FIVE!
You can either get your showboating asses of my lawn, or you can quit your damned whining when I plunk said asses. You can not do both. If you're going to behave like adolescent children shut your trap when I beat you with a leather strap.
What does Counsell's HR have to do with it. You shouldn't show up pitchers period. Your #### did not grow six more inches simply because you did your damned job.
Wow, if only, of course I would never waste my time here anymore. I need more work!
Why is intentionally throwing a baseball at someone the appropriate response to them pumping their fist or talking trash? I wouldn't do it personally but I have no problem with posing after an HR or doing a cart-wheel after a striking someone out. Why raise it to intentional physical harm just because someone beat you and told you as much?
To teach the child not to behave inappropriately again.
I agree. The fact that Dempster had just given up a HR to Counsell suggests that Braun's HR was even less impressive. But even if Dempster had been mowing down everyone in sight before Braun connected, Braun shouldn't make an ass of himself on the bases afterwards. While the Counsell jack does make Dempster look more like an ass than otherwise, the inappropriateness of Braun's showboating is not contingent on said Counsell jack.
This was a really dumb comment the first time you made it, and it still is now. The homer itself is "showing up" enough (unless, as others have said, it actually merits a celebration).
Anyway, the whole thing smacks of "if you don't want to incur health care costs, don't get sick." Please.
EDIT: Or to keep it within the baseball realm, it's like the pitching coach's advice to a wild pitcher to throw strikes. Giving up hits and home runs are expected parts of the game. Acting like a nutsack, as Braun did in this case, is strictly extracurricular.
I thought baseball games were entertainment. I didn't know I was watching heart surgery. If so, how can anyone think to cheer out of concern for distracting the participants?
Sssssshhhhhhhhhh
Much like a high hard one to the ear flap. I'm sure Macha sees it the same way.
I thought baseball games were entertainment. I didn't know I was watching heart surgery. If so, how can anyone think to cheer out of concern for distracting the participants?
Same here. I don't have a problem with any of those examples at all. As a fan, it's frustrating and/or angering when the celebrations turn into taunting. Of course, all it really does is make Braun look like a horse's ass. That goes for excessively celebrating any mundane accomplishment. Braun's excitement overraction and the staredown is taunting, IMO. I'm not saying it shouldn't be allowed or that it demands payback or anything. If Braun wants to act that way after every home run, he's more than welcome to. He can turn it into a whole routine like Sosa did. It just gives us more to ##### and moan about and use to insult Braun.
Nevertheless, I can understand why someone would get their nose out of joint. And if he gets some pitches inside it's not suprising.
Though a head shot is inappropriate. Plunk in the backside, I get that. Headhunting is dangerous.
Throw in Bonds watching his fly and The Rickey doing that thing The Rickey did. All of these things happened in the first seconds as the player exited the box on his way to first. A little chintzy, and if it got extreme (Ryan Klesko's occasional triple axl bat flip) I could see brushing them back the next time up. Just give 'em a little kiss to suggest they respect their opponents too. But if Braun was yapping and staring as he rounded the bases - more than two steps out of the box - he needs to be forcefully corrected by real baseball players. (And yes, gentlemen, I pretty much despise Yunel Escobar.) If it's not Gibson in the World Series, your "woo I hit a homer" hijinx should be done by the second step down the line.
I haven't seen the play in question, but if Braun really stared down the pitcher as he ran the bases and talked #### to him too, Dempster has every right to give him a very close shave.
Brenly yesterday:
No, no. Dempster threw a pitch that gave Braun a close shave, and then Braun stared him down after homering off him in the his at-bat.
So LATER in the game when Dempster was running on fumes Braun hit one into the second deck.
I explain all this for latecomers stating opinions where it's clear the timeline of events is playing a role in said opinions.
Dempster gets close to Braun's head THEN Braun hits home run and THEN Braun does his Chatty Kathy routine
Though a head shot is inappropriate. Plunk in the backside, I get that. Headhunting is dangerous.
Concur. Hit him in the back, or the ribs, but he should get plunked if an appropriate situation arise next time they play the Cubs (blowout, on way or the other, etc.)
in other words, 'get suspended like a man'
How is hitting a guy with a pitched baseball not violent? I didn't say Brenly was putting a hit out on the guy, but yeah, saying someone should be thrown at is advocating violence against him. That's a pretty non-controversial statement to me, but hey, this is BTF.
He hit the next pitch over the fence. He did not fist pump. It was pretty awesome.
I do find the preference for charging the mound over staring the pitcher down/chirping at him a little odd.
I think the situation can be boiled down as such: Braun, when he first came up, cadillacked (go to 1:50) on a lot of home runs and heard about it, both from the Brewers and other teams. He's made a conscious change to only celebrate exuberantly after important home runs (of which he's hit a bunch in the last half year, which is why it may seem to casual observers as if his behavior hasn't changed). Nevertheless, it's hard to shake first impressions, and he got thrown at by Jeff Karstens earlier in the year despite pointedly not celebrating. That HBP, which was between his shoulder blades, has put him on edge both because of its location and its lack of justification. So, even though Dempster almost certainly wasn't throwing at him, Braun's developed a bit of a complex about pitchers headhunting against him. Maybe it's part of the me-against-the-world attitude that athletes seem so eager to cultivate. I don't know. I'm just trying to provide the proper context.
Where I disagree with you is that I don't think showing a little emotion is childish.
Braun's antics were less than classy, but I don't think he should be drilled.
Dempster has every right to give him a very close shave.
I'm sorry but this is just insane. On what cave is this Neanderthal line of thinking carved? Throwing a baseball at a guy's head is really a viable solution to trash talking??? Really??? I'll be sure to use this defense the next time I wrap a 9-iron around my buddy's neck because he laughed at me for missing a 3-foot putt.
Ugh, is this really that hard to understand? If Z was pointing at the batters, it'd be taunting. If Braun were simply celebrating, he's just look foolish and that'd be the end of it (maybe there's someone on the team that'd be upset, but I can't predict that). There are people in this thread (note none are Cubs fans) that are complaining about basic celebrations and talking about payback. Brenly and myself are calling out Braun for the taunting part, and I'd do the same were Zambrano to do that. He sure came close that one time when he and Edmonds were yelling at each other during Edmonds trip around the bases after a HR, oddly enough that was Z complaining about Edmonds admiring the ball (so in that instance, I'm ok with Edmonds watching the ball but not with Z for turning it into an argument - and for throwing at him later in the game).
I don't watch enough Cubs to know. Brenly has really criticized Zambrano for thanking g-d/UFC for nearly every opponent out?
People are complaining because Braun directed the obnoxiousness at the pitcher, trash talking him around the bases and staring him down. Zambrano(who points to the sky after every inning, not out) doesn't point to the guy he just struck out and tell him to sit his ass down.
He's persistent enough to make it obnoxious.
I don't disagree. And that obnoxiousness isn't limited to Zambrano (look how many other threads today were about similar things - the Joba/Huff thing, the Blake/Wilson thing). Most people (under 80) tend to accept the on field celebration stuff (like the examples throughout this thread: Sosa, Soriano, Manny, K-Rod, etc). But in all three instances today, the acts are being interpreted as taunting, thus leading to all these annoying discussions where most people are just resorting to defending the laundry they root for.
Give me 10 guys who really care over your 25 Boy Scouts any day of the week.
Zambrano can be on my team any day...
I thought the technical term for that was a "crow hop".
Mollycoddling wimp. He should hit him in the head with his best heater, and then when he is writhing on the ground, he should run to home plate and spike him in the groin. THAT would get his attention
What, no love for "One Flap Down"?
He is not celebrating. He is communicating with the Mother Ship.
he did it the other night when he hit one, I think he was trying for a triple.
He's 26. I strongly suspect the lad knows this is one real chance to make an impression.
Now, if he started fielding third base sans boxing gloves that would help as well...........
Yes, and calling something dumb if you disagree and making hilariously bad analogies is a mature response to someone having a different sensibility.
I just don't get it. I didn't showboat and didn't feel the need to. It didn't bother me when other people gloated--I figured them making themself look like a "nutsack" was good enough for me, and as I said, I SHOULD feel foolish for getting dunked on/burned on a route/giving up a HR.
A guy runs that fast, he deserves to get drilled in the head his next time up. He was clearly showing up adam wainwright.
Seriously, that was one of the more awesome home run trots I've ever seen. You could tell he was doing everything he could not to giggle; it was his first career MLB home run, and although it was against the team I root for, and it tied the game, I still wanted to hi-five him because he was just so happy (and trying so hard not to show it).
Oh, wow, just realized he did it 2 nights in a row.
Tonight the Reds' pre-game broadcaster expressed concern that opposing pitchers wouldn't take kindly to this behavior and he said that with a straight face. That's when I turned off the Reds' pre-game.
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