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Friday, September 03, 2010

Calcaterra: We’re still using “Moneyball” reference to bash the A’s? Really?

Mr. Madden, your BrainSeepuStar multi-media virtual video glasses should arrive in time for the Moneyball opening.

When you read stuff like this from the Daily News’ Bill Madden, you have to ask yourself two questions: (1) At what point will columnists stop using a now seven year-old book as a hook to write about the A’s? and (2) would Billy Beane have been better off if he had never provided Michael Lewis the access to write “Moneyball” in the first place?

  Bud Selig and the major league poobahs ought to be ashamed to be charging major league prices of $100 and stiffly upward for what amounted to be the $200 million world champions vs. Sacramento. What’s especially wrong with this picture, however, is that these are the same Oakland A’s that, in Michael Lewis’ 2003 best-selling book “Moneyball” - now being made into a major motion picture starring Brad Pitt as A’s GM Billy Beane - were depicted as the model franchise for all of baseball because of their ability to make the most out of spending the least.

Given the time that has passed—one of the main subjects of the book has retired already for cryin’ out loud—I can’t help but wonder if it’s really all that enlightening to critique the 2010 Oakland Athletics by referencing the book. And really, given that teams like the Yankees owe a lot of their recent success to co-opting and improving upon many of Beane’s ideas, it’s rather amusing to see “Moneyball” slammed over and over again like it is.

Repoz Posted: September 03, 2010 at 11:54 AM | 94 comment(s) | Login to Bookmark
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   1. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 03, 2010 at 12:20 PM (#3632757)
People hate what they don't understand. Especially if they realize they're too stupid to understand.
   2. Devin has a deep burning passion for fuzzy socks Posted: September 03, 2010 at 12:26 PM (#3632765)
Still better than Raissman's column today. If you can figure out what his point is...eh, I don't care anyway.
   3. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: September 03, 2010 at 12:30 PM (#3632768)
#22Org?

(I forget what the actual fangraph ranking was, Sorry!)
   4. Bob Dernier Cri Posted: September 03, 2010 at 12:37 PM (#3632776)
I don't know why you'd criticize the 2010 A's at all. Yes, they can't hit their way out of paper bags, but they have a very good shot at >.500 after several years at 86-87 losses, they've got excellent young pitchers, and their divisional competition in '11 isn't going to be world-beating. If anything, it's this season that ought to get people respecting Beane's ability to make silk purses out of AAAA players.
   5. Swedish Chef Posted: September 03, 2010 at 12:39 PM (#3632778)
Billy Beane should read Moneyball so he won't do stupid #### like throwing money at Coco Crisp.
   6. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 03, 2010 at 12:41 PM (#3632779)
Billy Beane should read Moneyball so he won't do stupid #### like throwing money at Coco Crisp.

And Ben Sheets.
   7. villageidiom Posted: September 03, 2010 at 12:43 PM (#3632780)
That's the thing about the A's. They're not afraid to get swept by the Yankees. You've gotta admire them for that.
   8. GregD Posted: September 03, 2010 at 12:45 PM (#3632781)
People hate what they don't understand. Especially if they realize they're too stupid to understand.
I don't think stupidity is the right framework here. I think it's schadenfreude. All these journalists worked for years in sports, and it is hard work, not compared to digging ditches but compared to my job (college history professor.) 200 days of travel, daily assignments that aren't easy to complete and write (even if they seem banal to us. They are supposed to seem banal to us! The Daily News would go bankrupt if it wrote for an audience as narrow and small as us.) Then Michael Lewis traipses in and makes millions of dollars and also pokes fun at them and at the people that these journalists work with.

Of course they resent him! I would, too, in their shoes. So, probably, would you. And of course they take joy in seeing the hypothesis seem to (though not really) collapse.
   9. Jose Can You Seabiscuit Posted: September 03, 2010 at 12:46 PM (#3632782)
I don't know why you'd criticize the 2010 A's at all. Yes, they can't hit their way out of paper bags, but they have a very good shot at >.500 after several years at 86-87 losses, they've got excellent young pitchers, and their divisional competition in '11 isn't going to be world-beating. If anything, it's this season that ought to get people respecting Beane's ability to make silk purses out of AAAA players.


This is my take too. Looking at them from afar I see a team that has the foundation of a successful group. Even accounting for a favorable ballpark they have one of the best pitching staffs in the league. If Beane can find a way to elevate that offense to "competent" there is no reason they can't be a divisional contender in 2011 and for the next couple of years beyond that (at which point they would probably have to move guys like Anderson, Braden, etc...like they did with Hudson and Mulder).
   10. Win one for Agrippa (haplo53) Posted: September 03, 2010 at 12:54 PM (#3632785)
Billy Beane should read Moneyball so he won't do stupid #### like throwing money at Coco Crisp.


"'Baseball can save the world'? 'The chicks are great'? I sound like a ****!"
   11. SoSH U at work Posted: September 03, 2010 at 01:01 PM (#3632793)
(2) would Billy Beane have been better off if he had never provided Michael Lewis the access to write “Moneyball” in the first place?


Other than increased name recognition (the value of which is certainly debatable from a GM's perspective), what did Billy Beane ever get out of allowing Michael Lewis to write Moneyball?
   12. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: September 03, 2010 at 01:08 PM (#3632800)
Then Michael Lewis traipses in and makes millions of dollars and also pokes fun at them and at the people that these journalists work with.

It's been a while since I read the book, but I don't remember Lewis making fun of sportswriters. He definitely made fun of scouts, with their old-fashioned ways, but I don't remember him talking about sportswriters at all.
   13. Yankee Redneck is a Pinhead. Posted: September 03, 2010 at 01:11 PM (#3632802)
nd really, given that teams like the Yankees owe a lot of their recent success to co-opting and improving upon many of Beane’s ideas, it’s rather amusing to see “Moneyball” slammed over and over again like it is.


Thank you Billy Beane, for showing the Yankees how to win.
   14. robinred Posted: September 03, 2010 at 01:12 PM (#3632803)
(2) would Billy Beane have been better off if he had never provided Michael Lewis the access to write “Moneyball” in the first place?


His public image might be better in the MSM, but I don't think it has affected him much otherwise...UNLESS, of course, it has affected his ability to do business with other GMs (Kenny Williams comes to mind). Has it?

That noted, I don't think letting Lewis write the book was a very good idea from Beane's POV, but I also don't think it has really hurt him. And, hell, it would be kind of cool to have Brad Pitt play you in a movie--even if the movie turns out to suck, as everyone seems to think it will.
   15. Greg (U)K Posted: September 03, 2010 at 01:17 PM (#3632809)
UNLESS, of course, it has affected his ability to do business with other GMs (Kenny Williams comes to mind). Has it?

He did work the Swisher trade with him. I can't think of any other dealings with the Sox off the top of my head
   16. Greg (U)K Posted: September 03, 2010 at 01:18 PM (#3632813)
And, hell, it would be kind of cool to have Brad Pitt play you in a movie

I'd want Adrien Brody, but probably get stuck with David Arquette.
   17. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: September 03, 2010 at 01:19 PM (#3632815)
UNLESS, of course, it has affected his ability to do business with other GMs (Kenny Williams comes to mind). Has it?

Kenny Williams was more than happy to hand over Gio Gonzalez and Ryan Sweeney to Beane just a couple of years ago.
   18. robinred Posted: September 03, 2010 at 01:23 PM (#3632820)
I'd want Adrien Brody, but probably get stuck with David Arquette.


This could be a fun hijack: If someone made a movie about your work and/or life, who would you want to play you, assuming a somewhat realistic match in terms of physical appearance?


Kenny Williams was more than happy to hand over Gio Gonzalez and Ryan Sweeney to Beane just a couple of years ago


Well, if Beane can deal with other GMs as he did before, then I don't see any reason to say that the book has "hurt" Beane in any substantive way. He still has his job, etc.
   19. Yankee Redneck is a Pinhead. Posted: September 03, 2010 at 01:28 PM (#3632828)
And, hell, it would be kind of cool to have Brad Pitt play you in a movie

I'd want Adrien Brody, but probably get stuck with David Arquette.


I'd want Daniel Day Lewis, but would probably end up with Paulie Shore.
   20. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: September 03, 2010 at 01:30 PM (#3632830)
It's been a while since I read the book, but I don't remember Lewis making fun of sportswriters

he was absolutely vicious towards sportswriters AFTER the book came out when reacting to their hatred of Moneyball--he called them the Ladies Auxiliary of baseball
   21. Jose Can You Seabiscuit Posted: September 03, 2010 at 01:31 PM (#3632832)
This could be a fun hijack: If someone made a movie about your work and/or life, who would you want to play you, assuming a somewhat realistic match in terms of physical appearance?


I'm a tubby guy with a baby face considering my age. I feel like Andy Richter would probably be a good fit.
   22. robinred Posted: September 03, 2010 at 01:36 PM (#3632836)
This could be a fun hijack


Of course, OTOH, this is a Calcaterra piece. Aren't we supposed to hijack it to talk about WW2 military history and strategy?
   23. SoSH U at work Posted: September 03, 2010 at 01:38 PM (#3632839)
This could be a fun hijack: If someone made a movie about your work and/or life, who would you want to play you, assuming a somewhat realistic match in terms of physical appearance?


Dermot Mulroney, who does bear a bit of a physical resemblance, though I never had the whole got to sleep with Catherine Keener thing he had going for him.
   24. Alex Vila Posted: September 03, 2010 at 01:44 PM (#3632850)
For me, Rahm Emanuel with 30 extra pounds on him. Not a pretty sight.
   25. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: September 03, 2010 at 01:45 PM (#3632853)
People used to come up to me all the time and say I look like Tim Robbins. Nowadays, I get a lot more John C Reilly comments than I want. I'm not sure what the next step in this progession is.
   26. Random Transaction Generator Posted: September 03, 2010 at 01:47 PM (#3632854)
This could be a fun hijack: If someone made a movie about your work and/or life, who would you want to play you, assuming a somewhat realistic match in terms of physical appearance?

I'd want Chris Evans (with glasses), but probably get Anthony Michael Hall (with less hair).
   27. DA Baracus: dramatic facepalming in a 3 piece suit Posted: September 03, 2010 at 01:49 PM (#3632858)
It's been a while since I read the book, but I don't remember Lewis making fun of sportswriters. He definitely made fun of scouts, with their old-fashioned ways, but I don't remember him talking about sportswriters at all.


In the epilogue in paper back edition he ripped them pretty good. It was a fun read.
   28. Yankee Redneck is a Pinhead. Posted: September 03, 2010 at 01:49 PM (#3632857)
People used to come up to me all the time and say I look like Tim Robbins. Nowadays, I get a lot more John C Reilly comments than I want. I'm not sure what the next step in this progession is.


Jon Lovitz. Be very afraid.
   29. Kirby Kyle Posted: September 03, 2010 at 02:00 PM (#3632863)
People used to come up to me all the time and say I look like Tim Robbins.

People said exactly the same thing to me. He's not a handsome guy, but it was fine with me, since I had a thing for Susan Sarandon.
   30. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: September 03, 2010 at 02:08 PM (#3632874)
I'd want Sean Connery 40 years younger; I'd get Paul Giamatti 20 years older.

In my younger days, people used to tell me that I looked a lot like Bruce Springsteen. Of course, we both look much different than we did 30 years ago.
   31. tl; dr (Voxter) Posted: September 03, 2010 at 02:09 PM (#3632877)
I'd want Adrien Brody, but probably get stuck with David Arquette.


I'd Want Mark Ruffalo, but have to settle for the dude who plays Harry Crane on Mad Men

People used to come up to me all the time and say I look like Tim Robbins. Nowadays, I get a lot more John C Reilly comments than I want. I'm not sure what the next step in this progession is.


Winston Churchill?

I had a thing for Susan Sarandon.


Ew.
   32. bads85 Posted: September 03, 2010 at 02:10 PM (#3632879)
All these journalists worked for years in sports, and it is hard work, not compared to digging ditches but compared to my job (college history professor.)


No, it isn't. It is low pay, but it isn't hard. Sure, making deadlines are no fun, but we aren't talking about vast and documented research here.
   33. bads85 Posted: September 03, 2010 at 02:15 PM (#3632885)
Given the time that has passed


Seven years is nothing. Shakespeare should have never written that play about Hamlet.
   34. tl; dr (Voxter) Posted: September 03, 2010 at 02:16 PM (#3632886)
Have you ever actually done it? When I was a reporter, I worked 60 hour weeks. It's not medicine, but it's not easy, either.
   35. SoSH U at work Posted: September 03, 2010 at 02:19 PM (#3632890)
No, it isn't. It is low pay, but it isn't hard. Sure, making deadlines are no fun, but we aren't talking about vast and documented research here.


It's a lot of hours, particularly for a baseball beat writer. I got out of sportswriting because the hours really weren't conducive to having a semi-normal family life.

Edit: Coke to Voxter.
   36. Moneyball can't buy you love (Joey B.) Posted: September 03, 2010 at 02:26 PM (#3632899)
That's the thing about the A's. They're not afraid to get swept by the Yankees. You've gotta admire them for that.

At least we'll always have Dallas Braden telling A-Rod to get the f**k off his mound. They can never take that away from us.
   37. bads85 Posted: September 03, 2010 at 02:29 PM (#3632902)
Have you ever actually done it?


Yes. I became fed up with working with and for dipshits and left the trenches a long time ago to lock myself in an ivory tower.
   38. gef the talking mongoose Posted: September 03, 2010 at 02:32 PM (#3632907)
What Voxter & SoSH U said. Reporting is an ungodly of work if you're doing it right (i.e. right for the employer & the readers &, theoretically, your clip file; wrong for yourself as a human being with at least a pretense to a life, of course), & a good portion of it is conducted off the clock while management looks the other way out of necessity if the stories are to get done & done right. (The men & women putting in 60 hours a week or more are almost certainly claiming only 40 or maybe a couple of hours of OT, which upper management tends to ban outright while at the same time allowing for no stinting in the final product. That's the way it was when I was a reporter & that's the way it was when I was an editor. I didn't like it in either capacity, but reality is reality.)

And management is even more work -- if, again, you're doing it right (again, read: wrong).

And all that was as of going on 8 years ago. Things have since gotten much, much worse industry-wide with respect to fewer & fewer reporters & editors being employed to perform not only their own work but also the work formerly done by people in positions that no longer exist.

And yeah, I'd probably still be doing it (assuming I hadn't keeled over dead from mental & physical exhaustion, of course) if my bridge to the Montgomery daily (i.e. the only game in town, & I'm in no position to move) hadn't been burned for me back in 11/02 by an executive editor who's now presumably (if the Christians are right, & in this one special instance I hope to god -- no pun intended -- they are) helping Satan put out the Hell Gazette between turns on a spit.
   39. bads85 Posted: September 03, 2010 at 02:37 PM (#3632916)
It's a lot of hours, particularly for a baseball beat writer.


A lot of hours doesn't equate to "hard" -- menial perhaps, but not hard.
   40. gef the talking mongoose Posted: September 03, 2010 at 02:42 PM (#3632921)

A lot of hours doesn't equate to "hard" -- menial perhaps, but not hard.


As I indicated (not that you were responding to me), "hard" if you're doing it right. Lots of people don't, of course. From what I observed at the two dailies of any size where I worked as a news reporter & editor, quite a few of them (but by no means all) work in sports.
   41. tl; dr (Voxter) Posted: September 03, 2010 at 02:48 PM (#3632928)
It was hard for me. That's why I quit before I'd been doing it very long: I didn't like working Saturdays, I didn't like getting up at five in the morning and not getting home until after dark, I didn't like the stress of a deadline, I didn't like the confrontational nature of some of the job, I didn't like fielding phone calls from pissed off yahoos who thought I'd displayed a liberal / conservative / anti-business / anti-environment / anti-sudent / anti-teacher bias, and I didn't like being paid -- at most -- for 80% of the work I was doing. And I felt like I was struggling just to be competent at the job. The guys I knew who were really actually good at it were working more, and at a higher rate, than I did. And though there are lazy dipshits in every field of endeavor, I definitely felt like what I was doing was the norm, not the exception.
   42. bads85 Posted: September 03, 2010 at 02:51 PM (#3632932)
Reporting is an ungodly of work if you're doing it right (i.e. right for the employer & the readers &, theoretically, your clip file; wrong for yourself as a human being with at least a pretense to a life, of course), & a good portion of it is conducted off the clock while management looks the other way out of necessity if the stories are to get done & done right.


Whoa, we aren't talking All The President's Men here -- we are talking about sports reporters. There is a Grand Canyon type chasm of difference. Look, there is a reason the sportswriter is the low man on the totem pole in the industry (the only lower is the now pretty much defunt rock 'n roll dude). It doesn't require a great deal of writing talent to be a beat writer (in fact, a beat writer trying to sneak in talent to his article is usually frowned upon; editors want it cut and dried). It doesn't take a great deal of documented research. Any beat writer with talent will quickly move unless he is a A)screwup, or B) is biding his time working for a notable paper, C) stuck in bumfuck. Most talented writers in sports don't stay in sports.
   43. gef the talking mongoose Posted: September 03, 2010 at 02:51 PM (#3632934)
and I didn't like being paid -- at most -- for 80% of the work I was doing.


80 percent? Wow. You must've been working at the Workers' Paradise Daily.
   44. gef the talking mongoose Posted: September 03, 2010 at 02:54 PM (#3632936)
Look, there is a reason the sportswriter is the low man on the totem pole in the industry


Depends on where you are & what you're covering, I'd say. In, for instance, SEC territory (which is where I am now, albeit as alluded to above no longer at a newspaper), the sports guys pretty much have their pick of who wants to pay how much for the privilege of sucking their pica poles. The fact that one of 'em is basically a teenage girl (with a voice to match) trapped in a man's body, as far as his real interests (reality TV, idiotfuck movies & such garbage) are concerned, hasn't kept him from a cush local radio gig, for instance.
   45. bads85 Posted: September 03, 2010 at 03:00 PM (#3632940)
I didn't like the confrontational nature of some of the job,


This. This is exactly why I left. I quickly grew tired of pissing matches with assclowns. I guess if we are throwing that in the mix, then the business might be the hardest in the world.
   46. Still Waiting on Pork Chops (John R.) Posted: September 03, 2010 at 03:00 PM (#3632941)
This could be a fun hijack: If someone made a movie about your work and/or life, who would you want to play you, assuming a somewhat realistic match in terms of physical appearance?


I'd want Drew Carey. I'd get...Corey Haim after putting on 75 pounds and fake glasses? me working for a percentage of the non-existent profits. Those are the only two actors I've EVER been compared to...and the second didn't happen until last week.

Pre-edited when I remembered that one of the Coreys was dead and Wikied to find out which it was...
   47. Swedish Chef Posted: September 03, 2010 at 03:05 PM (#3632944)
This could be a fun hijack: If someone made a movie about your work and/or life, who would you want to play you, assuming a somewhat realistic match in terms of physical appearance?

Some muppet, I guess.
   48. gef the talking mongoose Posted: September 03, 2010 at 03:09 PM (#3632947)
John Fogerty, if he (a) tried his hand at acting, (b) grew a beard & (c) had a couple of Volkswagens for lunch.
   49. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: September 03, 2010 at 03:22 PM (#3632958)
God, I love the muppets.
   50. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 03, 2010 at 03:32 PM (#3632966)
At what point will columnists stop using a now seven year-old book as a hook to write about the A’s?


How long was it before Jim Bouton stopped being a pariah?
   51. CFiJ Posted: September 03, 2010 at 03:47 PM (#3632982)
If someone made a movie about your work and/or life, who would you want to play you, assuming a somewhat realistic match in terms of physical appearance?

Me. Edward Norton.
   52. bads85 Posted: September 03, 2010 at 03:49 PM (#3632983)
the sports guys pretty much have their pick of who wants to pay how much for the privilege of sucking their pica poles.


If that is the bar, then the rock dudes are king. Hands down. Ignoring the soft curve you threw me about SEC country, that type of "royalty" is the exception, not the norm.
   53. gef the talking mongoose Posted: September 03, 2010 at 03:52 PM (#3632986)
then the rock dudes are king. Hands down.


Could be. Wasn't a whole lot of call for that in Little Rock & Montgomery, though. (Though we did at least get the Stones in LR back in 11/94. Here in this pathetic excuse for a city, if, say, the reconstituted version of the Fixx plays, there are ####### riots in the streets.)
   54. Sox Machine Posted: September 03, 2010 at 03:54 PM (#3632990)
This. This is exactly why I left. I quickly grew tired of pissing matches with assclowns. I guess if we are throwing that in the mix, then the business might be the hardest in the world.

Why wouldn't it be included? Interaction is kind of a big thing.
   55. gef the talking mongoose Posted: September 03, 2010 at 04:01 PM (#3632995)
I assume he was expressing weariness with the assclowns part, rather than the interaction part per se. Athletes & their coaches & fans may indeed be bigger jerks than school board members, judges, lawyers, government officials or whatever; luckily, for the most part, as a (former) journalist I can vouch only for non-sports subjects of interaction.
   56. Davo the Magnificent Posted: September 03, 2010 at 04:05 PM (#3632998)
If someone made a movie about your work and/or life, who would you want to play you, assuming a somewhat realistic match in terms of physical appearance?
Robert Pattinson. He's the only one who can pull off my pastiness.
   57. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: September 03, 2010 at 04:08 PM (#3632999)
Thank you Billy Beane, for showing the Yankees how to win.


Not to hijack the hijack, but the Yankees do the opposite of Moneyball.
   58. Yankee Redneck is a Pinhead. Posted: September 03, 2010 at 04:17 PM (#3633004)
But the article says the opposite of that.
   59. Swedish Chef Posted: September 03, 2010 at 04:19 PM (#3633006)
Not to hijack the hijack, but the Yankees do the opposite of Moneyball.

I assume a team doing the opposite wouldn't win so much, the Royals or the Cubs might be doing the opposite.
   60. BourbonSamurai is not Fausto Carmona Posted: September 03, 2010 at 04:24 PM (#3633016)
Not bad, 51.

I get a lot of comparisons to Steve Zahn. I don't get it, but more than once I've had people I don't know stop me to mention it.
   61. gef the talking mongoose Posted: September 03, 2010 at 04:29 PM (#3633018)
I've been compared over the years to Mel Gibson (honest! by the ticket-taker at some $1 theater in Phoenix where we saw Mad Max around '82 before anybody knew who the hell Gibson was! & she wasn't wearing dark glasses &/or carrying a white cane, either!) & 3 non-actors -- Paul Simonon, Bryan Adams & John Fogerty (hence #48), none of whom probably look (a) a thing alike or (b) like me in any way, shape or form. Maybe they all have deep-set eyes, which I certainly do.
   62. bads85 Posted: September 03, 2010 at 04:52 PM (#3633035)
I assume he was expressing weariness with the assclowns part, rather than the interaction part per se.


Right -- the interaction part is one of the perks. The downside is the assclowns (in my case, I was talking about the assclowns within the profession). There are assclowns in every profession, so I didn't count that as part of the job criteria.

My original point which I guess I didn't phrase well enough is that, in general, sports reporting (not to be confused with other types of reporting) isn't hard -- menial and time consuming perhaps, but not hard. I don't equate long hours to hard work if you aren't completing a hard task. In general, writing a book (what Lewis did) is hard; writing sports articles is not. Given the chance, any first year journalism student can write a beat article. Writing an article to stand up to peer review is hard; writing a grant proposal, which is one of the most time consuming, menial writing chores that exists, is not.
   63. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: September 03, 2010 at 05:00 PM (#3633039)
But the article says the opposite of that.


Really? (I didn't RTFA) For me the main tenet of Moneyball was finding hidden value and exploiting a market inefficiency. The Yankees don't do either of those things.
   64. zenbitz Posted: September 03, 2010 at 05:10 PM (#3633053)
In profile, I look kind of like Tchéky Karyo in Joan of Arc, The Messenger. Although that was back in 2001 or so when I had a similar haircut.

Also, I look nothing like him from the front. Also, he's 17 years older than I.
   65. villageidiom Posted: September 03, 2010 at 05:19 PM (#3633063)
I've been compared over the years to Mel Gibson (honest!
So have I, but only relative to his appearance in Hamlet. My appearance has also been compared to Chad Lowe, but that was back in high school.

But if they were to do my life story, I'd want Bill Paxton to play me. My life story would be so boring that it would inspire those who watch it to take vengeance on the cast and crew for wasting their time. As part of that, someone would almost certainly torture Bill Paxton. And I really don't like Bill Paxton.
   66. McCoy Posted: September 03, 2010 at 05:24 PM (#3633074)
I've been compared to Mario Van Peebles which is odd.
   67. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: September 03, 2010 at 05:28 PM (#3633082)
For me the main tenet of Moneyball was finding hidden value and exploiting a market inefficiency.

But for all those who bash it without having read it, the main tenets of Moneyball are a) OBP rules, and b) fat catchers who walk and hit homers are da bomb.
   68. SoSH U at work Posted: September 03, 2010 at 05:32 PM (#3633090)
I've been compared to Mario Van Peebles which is odd.


Being that you look much more like Melvin?
   69. gef the talking mongoose Posted: September 03, 2010 at 05:39 PM (#3633094)
My appearance has also been compared to Chad Lowe, but that was back in high school.


In 7th grade a friend compared me to John Denver, but I cling to the belief that that was because I probably had shaggy blond hair, may've been somewhat round-faced at the time & wore glasses. (Better John Denver than Robbie Ritter, I suppose.)

Except, come to think of it, I didn't start wearing glasses till 10th grade.

Hmmmm. Well, my friend was black (& almost certainly still is, though I haven't seen him in 33-odd years; I'm assuming he hasn't lost his mind a la Sammy Sosa), so maybe we all looked alike to him.
   70. Davo the Magnificent Posted: September 03, 2010 at 05:59 PM (#3633111)
The non-actor celebrity I'm compared to the most is Adam Lambert, since, you know, I have long black hair that I comb over my eyes. And I wear eyeliner.
   71. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: September 03, 2010 at 06:30 PM (#3633141)
But for all those who bash it without having read it, the main tenets of Moneyball are a) OBP rules, and b) fat catchers who walk and hit homers are da bomb.


I didn't realize Moneyball was about Jorge Posada. That must be the hidden connection.
   72. shattnering his Dominicano G Strings on that Mound Posted: September 03, 2010 at 06:44 PM (#3633152)
Yeah, I was gonna say, how is a team with a high OBP and a husky cather who gets on bas and has upper-deck power not a plus?
   73. Yankee Redneck is a Pinhead. Posted: September 03, 2010 at 06:47 PM (#3633154)
But the article says the opposite of that.

Really? (I didn't RTFA) For me the main tenet of Moneyball was finding hidden value and exploiting a market inefficiency. The Yankees don't do either of those things.


From the excerpt above:

"Given the time that has passed—one of the main subjects of the book has retired already for cryin’ out loud—I can’t help but wonder if it’s really all that enlightening to critique the 2010 Oakland Athletics by referencing the book. And really, given that teams like the Yankees owe a lot of their recent success to co-opting and improving upon many of Beane’s ideas, it’s rather amusing to see “Moneyball” slammed over and over again like it is."
   74. Lassus: Posted: September 03, 2010 at 07:00 PM (#3633167)
Over the years the two I got most were Baryshnikov and Joaquin Phoenix (before the insanity). This has, sadly, somehow intimidated women so much as to prevent me from getting as much tail as those two have.
   75. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: September 03, 2010 at 07:02 PM (#3633171)
And really, given that teams like the Yankees owe a lot of their recent success to co-opting and improving upon many of Beane’s ideas, it’s rather amusing to see “Moneyball” slammed over and over again like it is.


1) That's not evidence; that's merely a statement without facts.
2) Even if it's true that the Yankees have co-opted Beane's ideas, how many of those ideas were actually Moneyball?
   76. Harry Balsagne's transparent jealousy Posted: September 03, 2010 at 07:08 PM (#3633173)
A woman at a bar once told me I looked like Edward G. Robinson. I took that as a pretty clear indication that she didn't want to sleep with me.

Also, someone once told me I looked like their lesbian cousin.
   77. Yankee Redneck is a Pinhead. Posted: September 03, 2010 at 07:09 PM (#3633175)
1) That's not evidence; that's merely a statement without facts.


Welcome to the world of journamalism!
   78. gef the talking mongoose Posted: September 03, 2010 at 07:12 PM (#3633182)
My first novel will be called Edward G. Robinson, My Lesbian Cousin.

I suspect it will also be my last novel.
   79. tshipman Posted: September 03, 2010 at 07:23 PM (#3633192)
husky cather who gets on bas and has upper-decker power


I didn't know Bernal Diaz was on a major league team.
   80. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: September 03, 2010 at 07:41 PM (#3633208)
I've been told that the closest celebrity I look like is Brendan Fraser. Which sucks, because I hate Brendan Fraser.
   81. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn) Posted: September 03, 2010 at 07:57 PM (#3633224)
I get the guy who played Steve on "Sex and the City" a lot.
   82. Yankee Redneck is a Pinhead. Posted: September 03, 2010 at 08:01 PM (#3633231)
Too much information.
   83. The Good Face Posted: September 03, 2010 at 08:04 PM (#3633235)
I've been told that the closest celebrity I look like is Brendan Fraser. Which sucks, because I hate Brendan Fraser.


Sure, he's not the most discriminating actor when it comes to choosing roles, but Fraser has a reputation of being one of the nicest guys in Hollywood. So you've got that going for you.
   84. bads85 Posted: September 03, 2010 at 08:11 PM (#3633242)
But for all those who bash it without having read it, the main tenets of Moneyball are a) OBP rules, and b) fat catchers who walk and hit homers are da bomb.


One of the other tenets is the Billy Beane is the coolest, slickest bond trader in a world of chumps. Lewis was completely bedazzled by Beane, and it sickenly comes forth in every chapter. This tenet has certainly caused the most backlash from both who have and have not read the book.

In retrospect, the draft chapter is absolutely hilarious.
   85. Dag Nabbit and his imaginary friends Posted: September 03, 2010 at 08:12 PM (#3633246)
Awesome Joe Posnanski post on Brendan Fraser

It takes a while for Joe to get around to Fraser, but then he makes an interesting case for why Fraser is his favorite actor.
   86. phredbird Posted: September 03, 2010 at 08:25 PM (#3633261)
i suppose i could be played by richard dreyfuss, sort of ... i'm starting to look like alan arkin a bit.
   87. Moneyball can't buy you love (Joey B.) Posted: September 03, 2010 at 08:28 PM (#3633264)
One of the other tenets is the Billy Beane is the coolest, slickest bond trader in a world of chumps. Lewis was completely bedazzled by Beane, and it sickenly comes forth in every chapter. This tenet has certainly caused the most backlash from both who have and have not read the book.

In retrospect, the draft chapter is absolutely hilarious.


I'm glad you said it and not me!

I'm still rather amazed that a Hollywood studio was willing to pony up the money to bankroll a movie on this. I could have understood doing it way back in the day when the guy was still getting results worthy of a Rocky-like plucky underdog, but the book has been rendered so obsolete by events in recent years, it's almost ludicrous.
   88. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: September 03, 2010 at 09:07 PM (#3633278)
One of the other tenets is the Billy Beane is the coolest, slickest bond trader in a world of chumps.

I think that was the overall theme, as opposed to being a mere tenet
In retrospect, the draft chapter is absolutely hilarious.

Someone in my office, just last week, actually asked me how "that fat catcher Beane drafted" was doing...

Anyway, one bit I love was how Grady Fuson told another scout how Depo "forced" him to sign this double jointed soft tosser... and Lewis brings that up to Depo, "I did not tell him to sign him, I told him to take a look at him"

The book portrays Fuson and Depo as enemies and Fuson as not fitting in with Beane's regime- and yet since then Depo and Fuson worked together in SD with no reported conflicts and Beane rehired Fuson earlier this year.

Lewis also makes comments that are difficult to see the source of, a team drafts Kazmir and he goes off on how on earth can team waste a 1st round pick on a HS pitcher... is that Beane's view? Bill James' view? Or Lewis view? I suspect that it was Lewis' view after having been exposed to Bill James- of course in hindsight it doesn't hep that the 3 HS pitcher draftees he fells fit to deride the most- 2 of the 3 went on to become reasonable effective MLBers...
   89. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: September 03, 2010 at 09:24 PM (#3633290)
From 2000-2010 The A's have had 25 1st round picks (incl suppl)
From 2000-2010 the Mets have had 14 1st round picks

Mets 1st round picks with more than a cup of coffee;

Traber 215 ip, got hurt lost mph
Keppel 92 ip, ditto
Heilman
Wright
Kazmir
Milledge
Humber 42 ip, got hurt lost mph
Pelfrey
Ike Davis


A's:

Crosby, was good, got hurt really can't play anymore (and yet he tries)
Bonderman
Blanton
Swisher
Teahen
Street
Pennington
Buck

I'm probably missing 1-2 guys, but no one really significant, if the A's are drafting better than the Mutts (a wholly direction-less and dysfunctional team insofar as scouting and drafting is concerned)I don't see it- ok Ethier and Cahill are second rounders, Niese was a 7th, Joe Smith a 3rd, there is also a very good chance one or more of the Mutts later round 2008 picks is going to be a decent MLBer
   90. Walt Davis Posted: September 04, 2010 at 01:32 AM (#3633374)
(1) At what point will columnists stop using a now seven year-old book as a hook to write about the A’s?

In fairness to the writers, a "big" Hollywood movie is being made about this SEVEN-YEAR-OLD book ... which was mostly about a season, what, 10 years ago? If it's "fresh" enough for Hollywood, it's surely "fresh" enough for sportswriters to get a column out of.

Also it's probably evidence that "Moneyball" was a sufficiently terse, catchy title.

As to actors, I once proposed Ice Cube (no reason a black man can't play this role) but got John Candy in return. Once was compared to William Hurt which I still desperately cling to even if he is a has-been now.
   91. Gaelan Posted: September 04, 2010 at 02:01 AM (#3633381)
In my late twenties and early thirties almost every new person I met would compare me to Vince Vaughn. Then for some reason it stopped and it hasn't happened once in three or four years.

So I guess I'll say I'd like Vince Vaughn to play me but I'd probably end up with Jon Favreau.
   92. radioman Posted: September 04, 2010 at 02:46 AM (#3633396)
Sure, he's not the most discriminating actor when it comes to choosing roles, but Fraser has a reputation of being one of the nicest guys in Hollywood.

About 10 years ago Brendan Fraser and I were at the same wedding and got chatting at one point. He was just about the nicest person you could meet- sweet and humble. I knew the bride from childhood and knew few people at the wedding and he and his wife also hardly knew anyone there. After our chat, every time I passed his table, he'd wave to me. I felt pretty cool about it. I guess that makes me kind of lame.

Oh, in terms of actors to portray me, I would want Alfred Molina from 20 years ago, but I would probably be played by Judah Friedlander.
   93. theboyqueen Posted: September 04, 2010 at 03:53 AM (#3633418)
Carlos Gonzalez (who is receiving the league minimum) has now crept into the NL triple crown race. Is he the MVP? How far back do you need to go now to find a worse trade than Gonzalez/Street for Holliday?
   94. Lassus: Posted: September 04, 2010 at 04:39 AM (#3633425)
Wait, this is Madden's work? Well, that's not a shock. 30 Rices in the hall are better than one Madden.
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