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Monday, April 07, 2008

Canadian Press: Frank Thomas always ran to first base

Just as Alan Ashby always runs his mouth…

Two examples created some buzz last week. There was New York Yankees reliever Joba Chamberlain screaming on the mound after striking out Thomas at the end of an inning, and Red Sox slugger Manny Ramirez standing and watching a big blast in Oakland, one that ironically ended up in centre-fielder’s Chris Denorfia’s glove.

“It bugs me,” says Alan Ashby, the longtime catcher and current Blue Jays radio analyst. “When I first came up seeing guys like Mark (The Bird) Fidrych and Dennis Eckersley, the stuff that was done was showmanship. I remember Eckersley as a rookie, coming in and striking out Rod Carew and telling him, ‘Go sit down, meat,’ so I have a feeling it’s been part of the game to some degree for a long time.

“But when guys stand at home plate after hitting home runs and some of the jogging around that goes on, it’s way too much for me.”

..."When I played you weren’t supposed to smile or show that kind of emotion and I actually think it’s fun to play the game like a kid sometimes,” he says. “But when you’ve got pitchers on the mound, giving the big pump after a strikeout, I think you’ve crossed the line. You can go back in the dugout and show that kind of emotion.”

Repoz Posted: April 07, 2008 at 07:18 PM | 25 comment(s)
  Related News: GeneralHistoryToronto

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   1. Paul Mazurkiewcz Posted: April 07, 2008 at 07:29 PM (#2734280)
"When I played you weren’t supposed to smile or show that kind of emotion and I actually think it’s fun to play the game like a kid sometimes,”


Translation: I couldn't, so now they shouldn't.
   2. Dewey, Local Boy and Hero Posted: April 07, 2008 at 07:31 PM (#2734281)
I just like the term "centre-fielder".

For some reason, admiring home runs bothers me, but pitchers celebrating after a strikeout doesn't.
   3. too fat and ugly to play third Posted: April 07, 2008 at 07:37 PM (#2734288)
He many never ever give you up another, know what I mean?

Due to the typo and poor phrasing, I don't think I do, Frank.
   4. Roy Hobbs of WIFFLE Ball Posted: April 07, 2008 at 07:56 PM (#2734317)
I remember Eckersley as a rookie, coming in and striking out Rod Carew and telling him, 'Go sit down, meat,'


That's classic right there.
   5. schuey Posted: April 07, 2008 at 08:26 PM (#2734360)
What did Eckersley say to Rick Manning when he struck him out?
   6. snapper Posted: April 07, 2008 at 08:31 PM (#2734362)
For some reason, admiring home runs bothers me, but pitchers celebrating after a strikeout doesn't.

Probably b/c a lot of the admiring is of non-HRs, and it ends up costing the team.

There's no on-field downside to celebrating a strikeout. Admiring a home run often costs a base, or even an out.
   7. too fat and ugly to play third Posted: April 07, 2008 at 08:33 PM (#2734363)
If that Eckersley-Carew story is accurate, Carew went two for six that day to drop his average to .418 on June 10, 1975.
   8. Fred C. Dobbs Posted: April 07, 2008 at 08:44 PM (#2734379)
Back in my day we ran to first base- and we liked it!
   9. AlouGoodbye Posted: April 07, 2008 at 08:57 PM (#2734398)
It was uphill to first base in my day. Actually it was uphill all around the bases, like one of those trick pictures, but we ran anyway, without a glint of emotion.
   10. Exploring Leftist Conservatism since 2008 (ark..) Posted: April 07, 2008 at 09:08 PM (#2734408)
My understanding of the game is that we don't chortle after beating someone. It's just bad form. Why add a dose of humiliation when we've won?
   11. Shock Posted: April 07, 2008 at 09:10 PM (#2734412)
I don't mind either. It's a freaking game, people. Get a grip.

Probably b/c a lot of the admiring is of non-HRs, and it ends up costing the team.


"A lot" seems like an exaggeration. A lot of an exaggeration, actually.
   12. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: April 07, 2008 at 09:15 PM (#2734417)
It was uphill to first base in my day. Actually it was uphill all around the bases, like one of those trick pictures, but we ran anyway, without a glint of emotion.


That damn M.C. Escher Stadium. Thank God they tore that place up.
   13. Benji Gil Gamesh Posted: April 07, 2008 at 10:13 PM (#2734471)
More fist-pumping after Ks in random games = more like the NBA/NFL = bad
   14. Rich Rifkin I Posted: April 07, 2008 at 10:24 PM (#2734481)
That damn M.C. Escher Stadium.
   15. Misirlou hasn't payed the phone bill in 300 years Posted: April 07, 2008 at 10:33 PM (#2734484)
That damn M.C. Escher Stadium.


It's a trap!
   16. jscape2000 Posted: April 07, 2008 at 10:47 PM (#2734490)
It wasn't just a fist pump after a K- it was a fist pump after a K to get out of an inning with the tying run on second. At least he didn't do an Irish Jig.
   17. Nolan Giesbrecht Posted: April 07, 2008 at 11:23 PM (#2734508)
"When I played you weren’t supposed to smile or show that kind of emotion and I actually think it’s fun to play the game like a kid sometimes,”

Translation: I couldn't, so now they shouldn't.


Uh, maybe my reading comprehension is a little slow, but he's saying that he likes it when players show they're enjoying the game; he's just against players showing up other players.

[didn't RTFA, just the blurb]
   18. Vaux, A.B.D. Posted: April 07, 2008 at 11:34 PM (#2734515)
You know what I was saying the other day about progress? Well, that's true, but it doesn't mean that something is good, or even okay, solely because it's new. Any given thing, or way of doing things, could have been better at some point in the past than it is now. I really have no opinion about this particular issue, though; I think how to behave between the lines is a matter of personal style. If a player wants to be a gentleman, that's great--people who like that will like him. If a player wants to be a showboat, great--people who like that will like him. It's no fun to legislate that kind of thing.
   19. Boots Day Posted: April 07, 2008 at 11:48 PM (#2734520)
Frank Thomas always ran to first base

That's being awfully kind to Frank. I'd call it more of an aggressive jog.
   20. Rusty Priske Posted: April 08, 2008 at 08:33 AM (#2734639)
Sigh.

There was nothing wrong with the fist pump...and I'm a Jays fan.

Getting excited about doing something well at a key moment in a game against a respected opponent?

We should ENCOURAGE that!
   21. Padraic Posted: April 08, 2008 at 08:51 AM (#2734647)
We should ENCOURAGE that!

Eh, it depends. If it turns into NFL-style (celebrations after every tackle and five yard run), then it will become annoying. I don't attach much of a moral aspect to it, it's just that celebrations are boring when ubiquitous.
   22. CrosbyBird Posted: April 08, 2008 at 09:42 AM (#2734669)
For some reason, admiring home runs bothers me, but pitchers celebrating after a strikeout doesn't.


Normally, I'd agree with you, although it didn't bother me when Hanley Ramirez admired his "HR" earlier this season and got gunned down at 2B by Church.
   23. CFiJ Posted: April 08, 2008 at 09:55 AM (#2734680)
Actually, in a sports world where fists pumps are perfectly normal, and ostentatious celebration a hallmark of the NFL, I actually like sluggers who stand and admire their homeruns. People get on Bonds case for standing and watching his homeruns, and I can see where they're coming from, but on the other hand, it's awesome that in baseball the equivalent of an endzone dance is to nonchalantly observe your handiwork. It's like the epitome of "act like you've been there before, and you'll be there again." It's like when a pitcher strikes out a batter for the third out at a key moment in the game, and just walks off the mound like nothing's happened. That's cool.

After watching a lot of baseball (and sumo, also very understated), I was a bit taken aback when watching pro tennis, and seeing all the fist pumps after every point. And most sports are like that. So, I don't mind that much celebration in baseball, either. But, actually, I do like it when a player gets all of a pitch, and he knows it, and his reaction is not even to start running, watching the ball leave the park, but rather complete indifference to what he's just done.
   24. bunyon Posted: April 08, 2008 at 10:28 AM (#2734696)
Actually, in a sports world where fists pumps are perfectly normal, and ostentatious celebration a hallmark of the NFL, I actually like sluggers who stand and admire their homeruns. People get on Bonds case for standing and watching his homeruns, and I can see where they're coming from, but on the other hand, it's awesome that in baseball the equivalent of an endzone dance is to nonchalantly observe your handiwork. It's like the epitome of "act like you've been there before, and you'll be there again." It's like when a pitcher strikes out a batter for the third out at a key moment in the game, and just walks off the mound like nothing's happened. That's cool.

I agree with this, though I do like genuine celebration. Most displays in most sports look more like efforts to show up the other guy/team. But an actual fit of happiness is fine, no matter how the loser may feel about it, IMO. And, of course, it's hard to know what is really going through the player's mind at the time. I'm mostly thinking about great catches where it's clear that the fielder is both happy, and a little surprised, that he made the catch. Junior had several of these. Spontaneous celebration is cool.

I aalso think admiring a HR is cool but only for the real, no doubters, mammoth HR. If you hit a fly ball that carries a bit and plops just past the fence, you'd better have been busting it. If you hit a 540 footer off the top railing, go ahead and watch. I also like it because it does carry some risk - if you stand and admire it and the ball falls in, you lose bases (and may get thrown out). That risk of humiliation adds to the moment, I think.
   25. SoSH U at work Posted: April 08, 2008 at 10:33 AM (#2734698)
I aalso think admiring a HR is cool but only for the real, no doubters, mammoth HR. If you hit a fly ball that carries a bit and plops just past the fence, you'd better have been busting it. If you hit a 540 footer off the top railing, go ahead and watch. I also like it because it does carry some risk - if you stand and admire it and the ball falls in, you lose bases (and may get thrown out). That risk of humiliation adds to the moment, I think.


Agreed. I think of Pujols' homer in the NLCS - how can you expect a guy to not watch that thing. That was a thing of beauty.
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