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Wednesday, October 28, 2009

Caribbean Net News: Henry: Put greatness in perspective

The big takeover? Jack Rabid is early this year…

Who is calling the shots in baseball?

Baseball has been taken over by statisticians, mathematicians and experts in probabilities. Few people today will remember that during a pennant drive in 1948, Warren Spahn pitched 14 innings for a Braves victory. I wonder in what inning the pitch counters of today would have pulled him out of the game. That same season, Spahn and his teammate Johnny Sain, went 8-0 in just 12 days. Can you imagine any sports agent today letting his client start, pitch and complete four games in 12 days, much less pitch 14 innings in one game?

Few pitchers today ever get to complete games. With today’s ball counters,, Walter Johnson, Cy Young and Spahn would never have completed 1,662 games during their careers. Nolan Ryan would never have credit for seven no-hitters because he too would have been yanked after a certain number of pitches and not allowed to complete a game. Baseball managers today seem to have pitching specialists for every inning – a starter, a mid-reliever, a holder, a closer and others just for extra innings. It is a wonder they don’t have computers and geeks with them in the dugout.

I wonder how Joe Dimaggio, Babe Ruth and Ted Williams ever got a hit without wearing batting gloves, helmets, shin guards, elbow pads, wrist bands and other padded paraphernalia. I don’t remember any of them ever stepping out of the batter’s box after every pitch to adjust their gloves and guards the way many batters do today.

Repoz Posted: October 28, 2009 at 09:34 AM | 15 comment(s) | Bookmark
  Related News: GeneralHistorySabermetrics

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Page 1 of 1 pages
   1. RMc's grumbling has gone far enough Posted: October 28, 2009 at 10:01 AM (#3368214)
Modern ballplayers are homosexual pantywaist Communist terrorist wimps who drink lattes.

That is all.
   2. Baseball-Birthdays.com Posted: October 28, 2009 at 10:18 AM (#3368223)
I RTFA, and man...

this guy could teach Bob Feller a thing or two about gettin' kids off the lawn...
   3. Rants Mulliniks (formerly Cold Prosimian) Posted: October 28, 2009 at 10:52 AM (#3368228)
Not very often a rant touches on that many aspects of the sporting world. Guy knows his sports history though.
   4. Jose Can You Seabiscuit Posted: October 28, 2009 at 11:03 AM (#3368233)
I just enjoy the idea of a guy living in Seattle writing for the Caribbean Net News.
   5. gef the talking mongoose Posted: October 28, 2009 at 12:57 PM (#3368307)
Nice. I came across a copy of Big Takeover # ... 7? I think ... in my attic during a foray up there Columbus Day weekend. I subbed through ish #50something, but a few years ago I lost almost all interest in whatever the heck the young people (or, in Jack's case, the old people) are listening to these days.
   6. Harris Posted: October 28, 2009 at 01:43 PM (#3368355)
I think Nolan Ryan would still have his 7 no hitters. It's very rare nowadays that a pitcher gets pulled when he's throwing a no-no.
   7. rfloh Posted: October 28, 2009 at 03:52 PM (#3368507)


There is no doubt that Jamaica’s Usain Bolt is the fastest man in the world today. But I have to look back at Jesse Owens who sprinted on a cinder track and didn’t have the advantage of electronic timing. New composite tracks are not only easier, but much faster to run on than cinders.


Modern sprinters definitely do have technological advantages that sprinters from the 30s, the 50s, even 80s didn't have.

But Bolt's greatness isn't that he is faster than everyone else today. It is that he is so much faster than everyone else today. Especially in the 200m, he is running the kind of times that his contemporaries cannot even dream of running.

Perhaps Bolt is greater than Owens. Perhaps not. But Bolt's career isn't anywhere close to being over. Who knows what his limits are?

Technology and equipment has improved even since Carl Lewis’ records in the mid-80s. Cornelius Warmerdam and Rev. Bob Richards were the first two men to break the 15’ barrier in the pole vault and used rigid aluminum vaulting poles, a modest improvement over the ash and bamboo wood poles that had been used for years. The flexible fiberglass poles that virtually catapault an athlete over the cross bar were still years away from being used. I doubt if world record holder Sergey Bubka could clear 20’ today with the same rigid, no-bend, poles used by Warmerdam and Richards.]


I doubt if Warmerdam and Richards could even dream of touching Bubka's records EVEN with modern poles, modern training, modern everything.

Serhiy Bubka stands head and shoulders above everyone who ever picked up a pole vault or even contemplated picking up a pole. Every vaulter who has come after him, after his retirement in 2001, with access to BETTER technology, BETTER training, has not been able to come anywhere near Bubka's records. Not even in their dreams.

If you pay any attention to athletics, and cannot the appreciate greatness of Bubka, you are nothing but a nostalgia blinded luddite.
   8. Swedish Chef Posted: October 28, 2009 at 04:07 PM (#3368526)
Serhiy Bubka stands head and shoulders above everyone who ever picked up a pole vault or even contemplated picking up a pole. Every vaulter who has come after him, after his retirement in 2001, with access to BETTER technology, BETTER training, has not been able to come anywhere near Bubka's records. Not even in their dreams.

Athletes in the 80's Soviet Union had access to state doping programs that were far better than any available now.
   9. jwb Posted: October 28, 2009 at 04:18 PM (#3368545)
Serhiy Bubka stands head and shoulders above everyone who ever picked up a pole vault or even contemplated picking up a pole
but Stacy Dragila looked better doing it.

Edit: Athletes in Northern California had access to some pretty good stuff, too.
   10. rfloh Posted: October 28, 2009 at 04:34 PM (#3368574)

Athletes in the 80's Soviet Union had access to state doping programs that were far better than any available now.


No they didn't. The USSR never really had a state doping program; there were coaches who were in favour of doping, there were those who were (vehemently) against doping. They succeeded because they had an outstanding sports science program, because they pretty much more than any country tried to approach sports training scientifically, instead of being influenced by cultural / societal beliefs; even today their system continues to have tremendous influence on the field of sports training.

Not to mention that none of Bubka's USSR contemporaries came anywhere close to his records.
   11. Ron Johnson Posted: October 28, 2009 at 04:45 PM (#3368589)
And because of perverse incentives (a large part of Bubka's living came from bonuses for breaking records so he never had any incentive to to the absolute best he was capable of) we probably never saw the absolute best Bubka was capable of.
   12. DCA Posted: October 28, 2009 at 05:08 PM (#3368622)
If you pay any attention to athletics, and cannot the appreciate greatness of Bubka, you are nothing but a nostalgia blinded luddite.

Yiannis Kouros similarly -- in all likelihood even more so -- dominated ultra-running.

He holds every men's world record from 100 to 1,000 miles, and none have been seriously challenged (today's best runners are usually not able to get within 10% of his times ... that's like holding the marathon record by 10 or 15 minutes).
   13. DCA Posted: October 28, 2009 at 05:10 PM (#3368628)
Few people today will remember that during a pennant drive in 1948, Warren Spahn pitched 14 innings for a Braves victory. I wonder in what inning the pitch counters of today would have pulled him out of the game.

The same inning in which the pinch hitter knocked in the winning run, I hope.
   14. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot Posted: October 28, 2009 at 05:16 PM (#3368639)
Technology and equipment has improved even since Carl Lewis’ records in the mid-80s. Cornelius Warmerdam and Rev. Bob Richards were the first two men to break the 15’ barrier in the pole vault and used rigid aluminum vaulting poles, a modest improvement over the ash and bamboo wood poles that had been used for years. The flexible fiberglass poles that virtually catapault an athlete over the cross bar were still years away from being used. I doubt if world record holder Sergey Bubka could clear 20’ today with the same rigid, no-bend, poles used by Warmerdam and Richards.]


I doubt if Warmerdam and Richards could even dream of touching Bubka's records EVEN with modern poles, modern training, modern everything.

Serhiy Bubka stands head and shoulders above everyone who ever picked up a pole vault or even contemplated picking up a pole. Every vaulter who has come after him, after his retirement in 2001, with access to BETTER technology, BETTER training, has not been able to come anywhere near Bubka's records. Not even in their dreams.


But Henry was only saying that he didn't think that Bubka could clear 20' with the rigid aluminum pole, which is certainly a defensible position. He wasn't comparing Bubka directly to Warmerdam and Richards, or claiming that Bubka wasn't better.
   15. Something Other Posted: October 29, 2009 at 03:51 AM (#3369839)
I wonder in what inning the pitch counters of today would have pulled him out of the game. That same season, Spahn and his teammate Johnny Sain, went 8-0 in just 12 days. Can you imagine any sports agent today letting his client start, pitch and complete four games in 12 days, much less pitch 14 innings in one game?
Freak of nature Warren Spahn aside, I assume this is the Johnny Sain who was never the same after being worked extremely hard his first three full years in the majors?

So, we're regretting the Darwinism that blew out hundreds of arms in order to get our rocks off over the occasional feat of endurance? Very nice.
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