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After all, how many players have we actually seen retire when they still have the skills or stuff to be a regular? Mike Mussina (at age 39), Bonds (involuntarily), Maddux and Clemens all qualify at the extreme end, but I can't think of anyone in their early to mid thirties who just walked away from the game when they were still effective.
It isn't just jocks, either. George Wallace retired at a young age, and look what happened to him.
EDIT: Well, that link went to the main page, but you get the idea. And before his widow was siccing thousands of rats on his wheelchair-bound self, she'd made him wear a maid's uniform and clean all the latrines in the Governor's mansion (which she now controlled). You can see this by clicking on the left hand page of the National Lampoon collection and going backwards a few images.
Didn't work
Um, maybe you missed that he can collect a cool hundred bucks just by keeping his word.
Didn't work
Well, I suppose it made sense to try, though--Ryno figured the only way to save his marriage was to get himself (and by extension, his wife) as far away from his teammates as possible. Tougher for Cindy to bed half the team that way.
Buerhle has made similar statements. Assuming that they both retain their health and effectiveness, I expect both of them to continue to pitch after their current contracts expire, especially since both of them would be pushing themselves into the realm of discussion for things like eventual election into the Hall of Fame.
Will Clark (he was 36 when he retired, but that's still mid-30s). Brad Radke.
Will Clark is a good example, and I should have remembered him.
Radke, on the other hand, had a shoulder which was so badly shredded that he would have required massive surgery to continue pitching (torn labrum which he pitched through for an entire season AND a stress fracture in his throwing shoulder). I can't remember the exact details, but I seem to remember stories about how the only thing he would use his right hand for was pitching, and he'd do everything else with his left to avoid the pain. He was effective in his final season, but he wasn't at all healthy, and wasn't going to get healthier any time soon.
Oh, agreed. But if one's bound and determined to save the marriage at that point, leaving the workplace is probably essential.
Sandberg's more willing to take crap than the rest of us, I guess.
I know this was a real issue when he was in the minors and what not.
But now that he's worth eleventy billion dollars, it would be very simple for him to fly his Mom and entire family to whatever town he's in on Mother's Day. Make a nice vacation out it. 3 days in a luxury hotel, catch the games, and do a big Mother's Day bash Sunday after the game.
There are a lot of problems that money can't solve. But seeing your family whenever you want is not one of them.
I think that's a pretty navie point of view, snapper. I'm not the biggest family guy in the world, but I can understand for some people quality time is more important than time. Just seeing your mother on Mother's Day instead of say spending a full weekend eating her food, going on a vacation with her, or maybe visiting her to spend the time is probably what Zambrano means. Any of those other scenarios are probably difficult with baseball season in tow even if you have the money.
Well, yeah, but it's not like he doesn't have 4 full months off every year he can do that stuff. Most of us who work for a living can't spent as much time with our families as these guys can b/c we don't have huge blocks of vacation.
Carlos can spend way more time with his Mom than I can spend with mine (even though she lives 30 min away) b/c both of us have to work all year. Carlos can spend four straight months with his Mon, 24/7 if he wants to.
I'm just saying, with the kind of money these guys make, there's no reason that they ever need to spend a night apart from their immediate family. And they can see their extended family very often if they want to.
But after what happened with Torrealba's kid, and Chavez's most recent tomfoolery with Globovision, I'd have second thoughts about leaving my family down there if I was his.
I thought he walked away from that huge contract so Cindy wouldn't get a lot of it in the divorce.
I just don't understand this. What, 5 athletes have been pointed out in this thread? Compared to hundreds who hang on until people won't offer them a job. I mean, look at Glavine. He's a HOF player who tried to play this year and was cut. Is Sullivan even paying attention?
Barry Sanders is the only guy I can think of who walked away while in his prime and with a significant record within reach. IIRC, he hated Bobby Ross (but wasn't the type of guy to start a public feud about it), knew the team was going to suck and didn't want to play anywhere else.
John Elway was old by football standards (although young compared to current Brett Favre),but he was the Super Bowl MVP and had something left in the tank.
Actually, after the first year away he offered to pay back his entire signing bonus if the Lions would release him. The Lions refused, so now Emmitt Smith holds the record for most career rushing yards. Which sucks because Sanders was a much better running back than Smith.
Then there is Rickey.
So on top of being the worst team in the history of the world, the Detroit Lions also ruined the NFL record book worse than steroids.
The answer is always no. Paul Sullivan is a bitter little hobbit who knows nothing about the game of baseball.
I assume you mean Barry, and that's simply not true. For one thing, Sanders was never the type of back to just follow his block and pick up 3 yards. Emmitt hit the hole quickly, Barry juked and spun and usually ran east-west before trying to turn it upfield. Furthermore, Sanders was an open-field runner who needed space and open lanes, Emmitt was always an in-the-trenches type of guy. Sanders had a lot of trouble with disciplined defenses that had speed on the outside; Emmitt ate good defenses for lunch -- he snapped the Eagles' 60-something game streak of not allowing a 100-yard rusher, and was great in the postseason. Sanders was terrible in the postseason.
In 1994, the Lions were 6th in the league in points scored. Sanders had a 13/-1 game in the playoffs. The next year, the Lions scored 436 points (2nd in the league and more than Smith's teams ever scored). Brett Perriman had 108 catches for 1,488 yards; Herman Moore had 123 catches for 1,686 yards. Sanders had 9 carries for 40 yards in a playoff loss.
Emmitt played most of his career behind a phenomenal offensive line. He had gigantic holes to run through. While he was obviously a talented back, he was nowhere near the level of Barry Sanders.
What he had most of his career was exactly what he needed, an offense based on spreading the field with 3-4 wide receivers (if you research it, most backs who played in the run-and-shoot had very good yardage/yards per carry).
Barry had more "talent" in the traditional sense that he was faster, had more agility, greater lateral movement and was hence a much higher pick. But he was never a power runner, never a guy who was going to consistently pick up first downs. He had some of the most amazing -1 yard runs in history. But if you traded them for each other early in their careers, neither guy would have benefited and their teams would have been worse.
Incidentally, I think Emmitt's style really benefited the Cowboys' line. It was synergistic. The Cowboys had what was considered the worst line in football before Emmitt. No one thought Nate Newton was going to be anything special.
Mike Mussina said that his decision was retirement or three more years, which is what he felt he would need to reach his 300th win. He chose to walk away with 270 wins, because he knew he wouldn't be able to leave with, say, 286.
That's quite an accomplishment for someone through his age 31.
Then, he wrote a best-selling book (one of the best sports-books ever), along with several other books, became a commentator (including next to Al Michaels), president of the Toronto Maple Leafs, Cabinet member in Parliament, ran (and lost) to be leader of the Liberal Party.
Somewhere in there, I think he also was a full-time lawyer.
That's something like 6 different peaks. I suspect virtually all athletes would not be able to be satisfied in their non-sports lives the way Dryden was.
It doesn't necessarily sound like Dryden was satisfied.
And if they sign Shea Hillenbrand, you could have a Zambrano-Guillen-Pierzynski-Hillenbrand brawl. I'd put money on Zambrano because he's surprisingly athletic for his size.
As for Barry, much of his early career he played in Wayne Fontes Silver Stretch offensive scheme which was very conducive to his style of running. It the spread the defense out and forced teams to use their linebackers to protect against the pass and not just key on the run.
Flipping the ball ten yards at a time to Jay Novacek is probably one of those things that's slightly more difficult than it looked, though :)
I also think the reason the Cowboys offensive line wouldn't have been considered nearly as good with any RB but Emmitt. Emmitt made them look great, not the other way around. That isn't to say it wasn't a good line, but I definitely think they get a bit more credit for Emmitt's success than they deserve.
Highest OPS+, 250+ PA's, Last season of career, 31 years old or younger:
Player Age PA OPS+ Year1. Joe Jackson 30 649 172 1920
2. Happy Felsch 28 613 143 1920
3. Dave Nilsson 29 404 140 1999
4. Steve Evans 30 638 139 1915
5. Frank Huelsman 31 465 135 1905
6. Bill Keister 31 429 135 1903
Ok so we know about those first two guys, but heh, Dave Nilsson. I got this from the BR Bullpen:
Man, that sucks.
Seems like a lot of guys from way back though. Here's the top five since 1950:
1 Dave Nilsson 140 404 1999 292 Junior Felix 128 339 1994 26
3 Troy Neel 122 320 1994 28
4 Tim Naehring 117 301 1997 30
5 Cass Michaels 115 344 1954 28
ERA+:
Cnt Player ERA+ IP Year Age+----+-----------------+----+-----+----+---+
1 Sandy Koufax 190 323 1966 30
2 J.R. Richard 173 113.2 1980 30
3 Mike Sirotka 132 197 2000 29
4 Roger Bailey 121 191 1997 26
5 Ben McDonald 115 133 1997 29
Anybody know anything about this Koufax guy?
Current Tower of Power lead trumpet Mike Bogart is leaving the band next month to be able to raise his daughter.
Bogart's replacement? Mic Gillette, whose baby girl is all grown up now.
Runningbacks take such punishment though, so I can't argue with his decision.
Shoulder injury - he played his last game of the season on June 23, and was never healthy enough to get back into the lineup.
As I said, Emmitt was a talented running back, but he was not a great one. I'm not a football expert by any means, so maybe in some way he made the line better, but I saw countless runs where nobody was even close to him until 3 yards beyond the line of scrimmage. They opened up gigantic holes for him on a regular basis. Whether that was because the line was great or the opposition keyed on Aikman or what, I don't know, but I'm not sure how Emmitt would make that happen. Yes, he had to hit the hole, and yes he was strong, but he was not a great running back.
Hitting the hole hard and following your blocks is an underrated part of being a running back. In this regard, he was vastly superior to Sanders. Sanders would often take the same hole, dance around and break it back to the other side because he was looking for a seam to bust it 80 yards.
Now it's true that a bazillion dollars opens up certain doors. But what if you're not interested in going through those doors? If you're not interested in getting into a stunningly expensive hobby (say breeding horses or getting into F1), or ... well you can come up with your own list.
I don't see Zambrano as caring about the extra money.
On the other hand I think he's more than likely out $100 for the reasons that others have mentioned.
Who says things like this?
I think Griese is his perfect comp. I thought Aikman was a glorified caretaker quarterback, a slightly better version of the Brad Johnson-Trent Dilfer guy you can win a super bowl with because you have all of the parts around him and he won't do anything stupid. The moment Emmitt lost a step and Michael Irvin had too many collisions with the Philly turf, Troy stopped winning big.
why?
do you think he'll take another look at his daughters in 4 years and say - eff em, they don't need no daddy around and i sure as heck don't see that spending my life with my growing children is worth it
Emmitt finished at 4.2, having only one season at greater than 5 yards per carry.
Well, you could probably argue that he doesn't need the money now, considering how much he's already made. Yet he keeps playing.
I do think most athletes are serious when they say it, but the lure of reaching some important individual (or team) goals, the simple joy of playing baseball and the promise of even more money can be too much to resist when the time comes.
Because there have been all sorts of players over the years who have talked about retiring young to be with their families, to watch their kids grow up, and so on, but almost none of them have actually followed through with it. For most of these guys, but the time they reach free agency, they don't NEED the money, but they sure WANT to have more of it around.
Zambrano may be one of the exceptions, but there's no way to tell that until he actually retires. In the mean time, I'll continue with my belief that (assuming health) he'll still be in uniform for a lot longer than the next 5 years.
who knows, maybe you right
but you don't never get back those years with your kids. you got your milestones but no kids and you might could say - well then no problem cuz kids are all this work and now somebpdy else gotta deal with them while i go out and do what i want, but then you miss out on actually having kids
like that mary poppins song goes
and then before you known
they up and grown
yeh. i figure why have kids if you don't wanna be with them?
but theres a whole lot of professional people (and non-professional people too you feelin me here) don't feel the same way
you can't have real too much of a relationship with someone you don't hardly know at all
So when Aikman's #1 running back & #1 receiver declined or got hurt, he looked worse as a result? And that's different from other QBs not named Peyton Manning in what way?
Then, for July and August, the whole family can travel with them, and with most games at night, they can spend virtually all day with the kids. For the rest of the season, you're only on the road 50% of the time.
I bet, if they plan it correctly, a rich ballplayer can spend more actual hours with his kids than a 9 to 5 dad. Even though it's not every day. Not to mention dads that have to work night shifts, or well over 40 hours to make ends meet.
Social experimentation, mostly.
Because being a winning quarterback is the sum of Aikman's greatness case. His numbers were never overly impressive. He wasn't noted for putting a team on his back and carrying them (while fourth-quarter comebacks is a stupid statistic, I struggle to recall one game where Aikman led a Cowboys comeback, though the playoff loss to SF was genuinely a great performance on his part). But he was a first-ballot, no-questions asked HoFer, and that never made sense to me.
They represent an excellent source of emergency kidneys.
It doesn't necessarily sound like Dryden was satisfied.
It's tough being a contemporary of Milton at the tail end of the first generation after Shakespeare. He must have had a feeling that, despite his great esteem at court, history would pretty much overlook him.
yes they do have 4 months at home
but as for july/august and traveling that assumes that the wives don't have no life or career and they are not ALL ex-strippers/playboy sluts you know
and the kids get a little older, THEY gonna have a life too you know
and the kids get a little older, THEY gonna have a life too you know
Well, I assume most wives of guys making $10M+ p.a. don't work, at least when their kids are young. I guess there could be exceptions, but if I were a baseball wife, I be on every road trip. No good can come of a rich, famous guys being alone on the road for a week or two at a time.
Also, I think the kids can skip any summer activities. I mean, I know there are some regular families where the kids sports/activities take precedence over family activities, but if you let that happen, you're not too concerned with family time anyway.
- you got THAT right
like i always say, it ain't i don't trust my own man, it's i do NOT trust any other females around him
i'm always surprised so many wives who DON'T work and don't have kids don't travel with their husbands.
shrug
maybe they figger he's gonna be a dog whether they go or not and they married him for the $$$ anyhow
Did you enjoy your conversation with Shaq, Mrs. Christie?
i know about the all day part, but i think the guys are in the clubhouse and working out by like 1 in the afternoon. i know they have a lunch spread even for a night game
- grinning
now chris dial, he the anti-ballplayer
i don't bet he would agree to be away from HIS little grrrrl like ballplayers are away from their kidz
and you know that the ballplayers can't bring there DAUGHTERS in the clubhouse/on the field
- and as for the rich and famous part,
well even if he wasn't rich/famous i wouldn't want MY man alone for 1-2 weeks without me or kids along
So, the wife and kids have to give up any semblance of ordinary life so they can spend hotel time with dad. That doesn't sound like something a guy concerned with his family would require/allow.
Living out of a suitcase, and spending every third day in a new city you're not familiar with and without many people you know, sucks. Yeah, they'd probably be staying in a better class of hotel than the ones my company typically puts me in, but business travel is still (generally speaking) crap.
Maybe they're at home banging the poolboy.
Better than having your husband out on the town with every gold-digger/groupie in the city having him in the cross-hairs. Trust is one thing, but giving the general weaknesses of man, better to keep the temptation to a minimum.
I've spent one night away on business in my four year marriage, and my wife wasn't pleased. I'd literally never take a job that required any substantial travel, unless I was absolutely desperate, so I guess yu can chalk me up with Chris.
IIRC Scott Brosius had his family travel with him full-time. He and his wife home-schooled the kids. They appeared to love it.
I don't think travel by private charter, staying in luxury hotels with everything pre-arranged for you, is anything like the business travel we mere mortals experience.
Unless you actually know the Brosiusi, how on earth would you know how the kids honestly felt about the arrangement?
And I hope none of the Brosius brood has hopes of following daddy's footsteps into the big leagues, because that doesn't sound like a lifestyle that will allow for it.
Why not? This seems like an odd reaction to one night away.
You're very lucky about the travel then, since my job (and industry as a whole) doesn't allow people the luxury of completely avoiding travelling on business.
I've stayed in some quite nice hotels, with everything being booked for me, and with generous allowed expenses for food and drink. After a couple weeks, no matter the location/accomodation, business travel sucks.
But then again, I'm a poor traveller. I certainly wouldn't be able to travel and then perform to the best of my ability mere hours later, the way baseball players do, no matter how nice the accomodations.
She likes having me around, a lot. I don't know why, but it's a good thing.
long silence
can we talk about it later?
- ah luuuuvvv yew boyz
If she's having scandalous affairs while on the road...well, it's not a bad tradeoff.
She would love my marriage, where for one calendar year of our marriage (3 years so far), she worked in Indy two weeks at a time, while I was at our Milwaukee area home, and then return for two weeks.
i could handle my husband not being home for 1 night.
sort of
but mostly because of all the calls i get every hour from him
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