BBTF's Newsblog Discussion :: ‘Cheap’ slide by A-Rod irks Pedroia

Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Wednesday, May 23, 2007

‘Cheap’ slide by A-Rod irks Pedroia

Screeching from Dustin on the diamond…

It doesn’t take Alex Rodriguez long to make enemies.

...“He went in late and kind of threw an elbow,” Pedroia said. “It was a little cheap but no big deal. I’ll remember. I play second base. I’ve got to turn two with the Yankees 19 times a year, so I know now when he’s coming in, my (arm) slot gets dropped to the floor. That’s it.”

Pedroia went to the clubhouse to view the slide after his at-bat in the top of the ninth and had his initial impression of the slide confirmed. When he returned to the field for the bottom of the ninth, he complained to second base umpire Joe West.

“I went back out and I said, ‘Hey, you should look at that; it’s a double play if he does that,’ ” Pedroia said. “I haven’t played football in years. That was all right.”

Repoz Posted: May 23, 2007 at 07:52 AM | 416 comment(s)
Related News: General, Boston, NY Yankees

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 1 of 5 pages 1 2 3 4 5 >

1. kevin Posted: May 23, 2007 at 08:05 AM (#2375610)

Rodriguez was unavailable for comment.

He was hiding in the closet in case Varitek came to have a word with him about it.

2. Sean McNally Posted: May 23, 2007 at 08:19 AM (#2375617)

Well, it certainly wasn't a "baseball" move - but was it cheap? Meh... I've seen worse and considering the situation and the teams involved it doesn't strike me as a real big deal.

Although, this strikes me as a bit of a double standard - if Peoria had done something like this, we'd hear praise for his scrappiness and guttiness and his "playing hard the right way."

It's not agism or sexism or racism or A-Rodism or even Yankee-ism... it's sizism. Peoria's so small relative to, well, everyone in the bigs not named Eckstein, it looked worse than it is.

kevin - how you taking the lottery results?

3. Shooty: Now rated AAA by Moody's and S&P! Posted: May 23, 2007 at 08:19 AM (#2375618)

Like most things A-Rod, it was kind of cheap and kind of not a big deal but will be hyped out of all sensible proportions. I'd be ticked if I were Pedroia, but I had a short temper as a player. For the rest of us, it should just be a weak excuse to snark. Not that we really need one!

4. kevin Posted: May 23, 2007 at 08:25 AM (#2375625)

kevin - how you taking the lottery results?

Fine. They're going to get a really good player at #5. This is an incredibly deep, talent-laden top-heavy draft, the best one since 1985, when Ewing, Mullen, Malone, McDaniel, Perkins, Schrempf and Dumars were available. I think there are at least 7 or 8 players in this one who will be difference makers. I don't think Oden is even the best available center.

5. Sean McNally Posted: May 23, 2007 at 08:31 AM (#2375627)

I don't think Oden is even the best available center.

The success of your Japanese rotation has you all excited for this Chinese center then?

6. kevin Posted: May 23, 2007 at 08:33 AM (#2375629)

The success of your Japanese rotation has you all excited for this Chinese center then?

I saw some clips of him yesterday. He's the real deal. He's better than Yao. A lot better. He's not quite as big but he's got skills galore and he's rawboned and rugged and has a mean streak.

7. Backlasher Posted: May 23, 2007 at 08:38 AM (#2375632)

The success of your Japanese rotation has you all excited for this Chinese center then?

Jianlian may go at #3 or #4. For the Celts, its one of Wright, Jianlian or Horford.

But Jianlian really is a 3/4 more than a 5. He's just a big mofo 3. He'll probably play at the PF slot though.

Kevin, who do you like better than Oden - Hawes, Hibbert?

8. kevin Posted: May 23, 2007 at 08:40 AM (#2375633)

Jianlian is a 7 footer, BL. He can play center. He's got the long arms.

And if Hibbert loses 20 pounds, he might be better too.

9. Backlasher Posted: May 23, 2007 at 08:44 AM (#2375634)

Jianlian is a 7 footer, BL. He can play center. He's got the long arms.

I really hope the Sonics see him as a dominant center, and they Darko their pick. I'd love nothing more than the Hawks to Carmelotize Kevin Durant.

10. The Bones McCoy of THT ... of DOOM! Posted: May 23, 2007 at 08:44 AM (#2375636)

Hey, A-Rod realizes that Pedroia is a rookie so he gave him a cheap slide. Once he gets his first big contract Rodriguez will charge him full price.

Pedroia should be thanking him. It's the first thing A-Rod has done in a while that didn't cost a bundle.

Blue Regards

John

11. Backlasher Posted: May 23, 2007 at 08:47 AM (#2375637)

Hey, A-Rod realizes that Pedroia is a rookie so he gave him a cheap slide. Once he gets his first big contract Rodriguez will charge him full price.

Give him some credit. He has gone from a slap to an elbow. I guess he hopes that emulating Cheap Shot Rob will lead him to getting as many rings as Horry.

12. KoolAidMixer Posted: May 23, 2007 at 08:48 AM (#2375638)

13. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 23, 2007 at 08:49 AM (#2375639)

Although, this strikes me as a bit of a double standard - if Peoria had done something like this, we'd hear praise for his scrappiness and guttiness and his "playing hard the right way."

No way. As with the slap, there is a pretty clear ethic of acceptable contact in baseball, and one of the big standards is that you don't take a swing at another player. The hip check at second base that Jeter likes to pull is a good example of a dirty play that gets called "playing hard the right way" - because it can be made to look like the natural extension of a baseball play, it's generally acceptable, if dirty. Throwing elbows and slapping has been beyond the pale since the 1890s. It's not, to me, a normatively worse play than what you see everyday, but within the code of baseball, it's just not done.

What striking to me here isn't that ARod is a dirty player - what he does isn't much worse than what others do - but that he doesn't seem able to play dirty the way everyone else does. He has to do it in a way that sticks out, that looks unnatural, that looks sort of silly, and that gets him in trouble. He plays baseball like he's profoundly uncomfortable out there, which is really weird for the guy who's like the best player alive.

14. Daryn Posted: May 23, 2007 at 08:50 AM (#2375640)

The Raptors should trade up to get Jianlian -- he is exactly what they need.

15. kevin Posted: May 23, 2007 at 08:50 AM (#2375641)

Yeah, BL. I think he's a solid 4. But he has the skills of a 3. He could be as good as McHale with better ballhandling skills, and that would be a hell of a player.

16. dogma bites Posted: May 23, 2007 at 08:51 AM (#2375643)

He was hiding in the closet in case Varitek came to have a word with him about it.

varitek sat in his chamber and as his chair spun around, lord varitek's mask descended upon his face. he then had the ability to face skywalk..er rodriguez.

Fine. They're going to get a really good player at #5. This is an incredibly deep, talent-laden top-heavy draft, the best one since 1985, when Ewing, Mullen, Malone, McDaniel, Perkins, Schrempf and Dumars were available. I think there are at least 7 or 8 players in this one who will be difference makers. I don't think Oden is even the best available center.

yeah, durant and oden were upgraded to 'stable condition' upon hearing the news the celtics would not be killing either of them with the #1 or #2 selection.

any celtic fan saying they're 'fine' with the celtics getting the #5 slot is full of crap. but i will say this, it's good to see the karma wheel steamroll that organization for so brazenly tanking two months of the season.

17. Backlasher Posted: May 23, 2007 at 08:51 AM (#2375644)

The Raptors should trade up to get Jianlian -- he is exactly what they need.

I bet the Hawks would give you the third pick for Bosh and Calderon.

EDIT: I'm turning into the NBA levski.

18. Shooty: Now rated AAA by Moody's and S&P! Posted: May 23, 2007 at 08:52 AM (#2375645)

One of the reasons that A-Rod may have done this is due to the fact that Pedroia tried to break up a double play at the beginning of the same game by sliding into Jeter and was nowhere close to second base. He couldn't have touched second even with Manute Bol type arms. Even the announcers on NESN commented about how that could cause a double play automatically.

Yeah, but that just doesn't LOOK as bad as A-Rod's kind of weak elbow flail. Once again, it's not the intent that's going to get him made fun of, it's the milquetoasty execution. If he wanted to slam Pedroia, he should have MFing SLAMMED him Pete Rose into Bud Harrelson style. Otherwise he should ahve just slid hard and out of the baseline like most guys do trying to bust up the DP.

19. kevin Posted: May 23, 2007 at 08:55 AM (#2375647)

any celtic fan saying they're 'fine' with the celtics getting the #5 slot is full of crap.

Eh, do you mind if I can have an opinion and express it as my own? Is that too much to ask?

20. Backlasher Posted: May 23, 2007 at 08:56 AM (#2375648)

Yeah, but that just doesn't LOOK as bad as A-Rod's kind of weak elbow flail.

As I am sure the Herald will point out, that is just Arod being Arod.

21. kevin Posted: May 23, 2007 at 08:57 AM (#2375649)

Yeah, but that just doesn't LOOK as bad as A-Rod's kind of weak elbow flail. Once again, it's not the intent that's going to get him made fun of, it's the milquetoasty execution.

As Matt pointed out-Bingo.

At least he upgraded from the girly-slap.

22. kevin Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:01 AM (#2375651)

Otherwise he should ahve just slid hard and out of the baseline like most guys do trying to bust up the DP.

That sort of happened too. Pedroia was standing about 8 feet behind second and to the left of it. A-Rod had to flail the elbow out there to make any contact at all because the momentum of his slide was causing him to drift past Pedroia without the chance for contact.

23. Tropical Storm Davis, aka Quilvio "Ebola" Veras Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:02 AM (#2375652)

The hip check at second base that Jeter likes to pull is a good example of a dirty play that gets called "playing hard the right way"

I haven't seen/heard about this. What hip check?

24. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:13 AM (#2375657)

I have a memory of Jeter popping up at second base and hip-checking the middle infielder as he releases the throw.

Dunno if it'll work, but here's a link, via SoSH, to a WMP video of the slide...

Edit: link doesn't work. But if you click the link, then delete the "http://" before "mms", and try it again, it should work.

25. dogma bites Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:19 AM (#2375665)

i have a memory of david ortiz sliding hard thru jeter two nights ago. where's the thread on that?

26. Backlasher Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:21 AM (#2375666)

i have a memory of david ortiz sliding hard thru jeter two nights ago. where's the thread on that?

You can submit one. I don't remember that being a big story though. You will probably have to write your own copy. Did Big Papi give Jetes an elbow?

27. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:24 AM (#2375669)

i have a memory of david ortiz sliding hard thru jeter two nights ago. where's the thread on that?

Oh, come on. We just spent half the thread discussing the difference between "sliding hard" like everyone does, and throwing an elbow like ARod did. You may disagree, but then you need to actually make a case for it.

28. Tropical Storm Davis, aka Quilvio "Ebola" Veras Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:25 AM (#2375670)

The Hawks get 2 lottery picks, right? I know they need a point guard, what else?

29. The Essex Snead Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:26 AM (#2375671)

Dominique Wilkins?

30. chris p Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:26 AM (#2375673)

What striking to me here isn't that ARod is a dirty player - what he does isn't much worse than what others do - but that he doesn't seem able to play dirty the way everyone else does. He has to do it in a way that sticks out, that looks unnatural, that looks sort of silly, and that gets him in trouble. He plays baseball like he's profoundly uncomfortable out there, which is really weird for the guy who's like the best player alive.

maybe playing dirty doesn't come naturally to him? like it does for jeter, for instance. arod was never known as a dirty player before he got to the yankees.

31. dogma bites Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:26 AM (#2375674)

pedroia was at a crossroads when asked by reporters about the 'slide'. he could've taken the man road and said 'it's baseball. what happens on the field happens on the field'...or he could start to complain and take the 'not so man' road.

all the words in the world can't change the fact that the game is played a certain way. guys slide. spikes hurt. get the hell out of the way if you don't want to get hit. seriously, it sorta takes the whole 'hate for arod' legitimacy down a few levels when we start to rip on a player's slide thru a DP. it rather exposes a particular agenda quite succinctly.

32. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:30 AM (#2375676)

all the words in the world can't change the fact that the game is played a certain way. guys slide. spikes hurt. get the hell out of the way if you don't want to get hit.

Right, and you don't take a swing at another player in the course of the game. Everyone knew that when I played ball. It's deadly obvious if you watch the games that contact is fine, and taking a swing at another player isn't. ARod could have slid off line, could have gotten his hip into Pedroia, and no one would be talking about it. It's that he swung his elbow at him, clearly after his sliding momentum had ended.

33. dogma bites Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:30 AM (#2375679)

...i can't help but think this is some cathartic excercise to help boston fans deal with the fact their basketball team got karma/donkey punched for tanking the final third of the season....

34. pkb33 Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:31 AM (#2375680)

Well, it certainly wasn't a "baseball" move - but was it cheap? Meh... I've seen worse and considering the situation and the teams involved it doesn't strike me as a real big deal.

You must not have seen the replay, then...there's absolutely no question it was a cheap shot. ARod stood up and launched an elbow at him outside of the context of the play! I guess I'm unaware of any knowledgeable definition of a cheap shot that wouldn't encompass that...maybe you have one that says this is ok from somewhere?

I also think its a weak comment to say there's a double standard since you haven't suggested what other incident shows it. What you seem to really be saying is that you are a Yankees fan and you like ARod and the best you can do here is pretend there's some media bias. Weak, frankly.

35. dogma bites Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:34 AM (#2375684)

Right, and you don't take a swing at another player in the course of the game. Everyone knew that when I played ball. It's deadly obvious if you watch the games that contact is fine, and taking a swing at another player isn't. ARod could have slid off line, could have gotten his hip into Pedroia, and no one would be talking about it. It's that he swung his elbow at him, clearly after his sliding momentum had ended.

you also don't start fights in full catching gear. who freakin cares anyway? arod's slide was *probably* in response to ortiz's hard slide thru jeter the night before. who can say for sure? the point is these things happen all the time, and repraisals are exacted shortly thereafter. ######## about it the press though sorta takes the shine off the player's 'cool' factor, imho.

anyway, isn't your team up TEN FREAKIN GAMES?

36. PJ Martinez Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:36 AM (#2375686)

Well, at least the other tanking teams got similarly punished: 4, 5, 6. Kind of funny if it weren't so sad (for a C's fan).

37. dogma bites Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:37 AM (#2375688)

You must not have seen the replay, then...there's absolutely no question it was a cheap shot. ARod stood up and launched an elbow at him outside of the context of the play! I guess I'm unaware of any knowledgeable definition of a cheap shot that wouldn't encompass that...maybe you have one that says this is ok from somewhere?

I also think its a weak comment to say there's a double standard since you haven't suggested what other incident shows it. What you seem to really be saying is that you are a Yankees fan and you like ARod and the best you can do here is pretend there's some media bias. Weak, frankly.

look at this objectively. i'm pretty sure i know where the 'bias' is coming from.

38. pkb33 Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:37 AM (#2375689)

Actually, baseball ethos is that the catcher protects his pitcher when someone refuses to take their base. So, you are wrong there....it's not Varitek's fault ARod wouldn't just take his base and decided to challenge him to a fight. If you had a mask on when someone started with you, you'd leave it on as well.

39. kevin Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:37 AM (#2375690)

...i can't help but think this is some cathartic excercise to help boston fans deal with the fact their basketball team got karma/donkey punched for tanking the final third of the season....

I can't help but think you're a frustrated Yankees/Knicks fan who is grasping at straws after watching his favorite baseball team do about as well against their chief rival as the HMS Hood did against the Bismarck.

40. PJ Martinez Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:38 AM (#2375691)

Yeah, there's a fairly clear difference between sliding hard and throwing an elbow.

I also think Pedroia should have been a little more subdued in his response. But he's young. He'll probably become less frank as time goes by.

41. bunyon Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:38 AM (#2375692)

Is there a video of the slide/elbow in question?

42. pkb33 Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:38 AM (#2375693)

That link doesn't work, what is it of?

43. Backlasher Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:39 AM (#2375694)

The Hawks get 2 lottery picks, right? I know they need a point guard, what else?

A post scorer
Another perimeter defender
A mentor for Josh Smith

The Hawks have pieces. A lot of their players would work well on any championship team. Zaza would be ideal either spelling a dominant front man or playing alongside a dominant front man. Josh Smith is athletic enough to have Don Nelson drooling.

But the problem is outside of Joe Johnson, the don't have many players that do more than one thing well. Salim can shoot, has trouble defending. Their interior players can defend, but they have trouble scoring.

They have wings galore, but they are all below all star level and none are stellar defenders. For all the bust talk of Marvin Williams, he is developing pretty nicely. If he had not been such a high pick, people would be thinking the Hawks have a good young player.

I think most people think they will go with Brandan Wright for his scoring ability with the #3 and take a PG with the #11. Conley appears who they want, but he may not last. If so, it looks like they will take Acie Law.

The problem they will have is expectation. Wright still needs a while to fill out to bang with others. Conley is undersized and can't shoot yet.

44. dogma bites Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:39 AM (#2375696)

pk, try the link again. and i can't stand the NBA. basketball season ends for me on opening day/ncaa championship.

this one should work.

45. PJ Martinez Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:39 AM (#2375697)

Wait, is dogma bites actually defending the play? We can debate its seriousness, and various other surrounding issues, but the guy threw an elbow! The replay doesn't really allow for ambiguity on this.

Also, maybe clean up that link.

46. DrStankus Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:40 AM (#2375698)

I saw some clips of him yesterday. He's the real deal. He's better than Yao. A lot better. He's not quite as big but he's got skills galore and he's rawboned and rugged and has a mean streak.

Sounds like Darko.

47. too fat and ugly to play third Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:40 AM (#2375699)

"Pedroia" is the Italian word for "#########."

48. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:41 AM (#2375700)

you also don't start fights in full catching gear

Game 3, 2003, Posada did the exact same thing.

arod's slide was *probably* in response to ortiz's hard slide thru jeter the night before. who can say for sure? the point is these things happen all the time, and repraisals are exacted shortly thereafter.

You have now ignored what others have said in every single one of your posts. You have followed up this utter failure to engage in reasoned debate with allegations of bad faith. Yeah, weak.

49. HowardMegdal Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:42 AM (#2375702)

"And if Hibbert loses 20 pounds, he might be better too."

Kevin, if Hibbert loses 20 pounds, he might be dead. His entire career has been spent trying to put on muscle so he can stay on the floor and bang with the big men. That said, he could help the Celtics- as could a lot of players at number 5. I do think there is a step down from Oden/Durant, but that the player picked 5 is likely to be a very good NBA player.

50. kevin Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:42 AM (#2375703)

Thanks for wrecking the margins, too, dogma.

51. dogma bites Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:42 AM (#2375704)

third time's a charm

video

52. PJ Martinez Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:43 AM (#2375705)

My problem with the link is not whether it works or not but that's its excessive letter count is screwing up the formatting of the page.

If you want to see the play in question, just go to MLB.com and read the game wrap-up on the game. The slide in question is the second clip provided at the top of the article, last I checked (at least for the Sox wrap-up).

53. pkb33 Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:43 AM (#2375706)

You are right, the video shows clearly who is biased. But since it shows that it's Sean, I'm not sure why you linked it. Do you see ARod's arm there? This is not close.

If you want to raise things that Sox players have done over the years, there's plenty of them...Pedro most obviously simply threw at guys and that's wrong. But to pretend this wasn't a dirty play simply says you don't have objectivity or, perhaps, have a very different understanding of the baseball rules on this type of play than most of us seem to.

54. dogma bites Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:43 AM (#2375708)

any time mchale

55. Alan S Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:45 AM (#2375711)

all the words in the world can't change the fact that the game is played a certain way. guys slide. spikes hurt. get the hell out of the way if you don't want to get hit. seriously, it sorta takes the whole 'hate for arod' legitimacy down a few levels when we start to rip on a player's slide thru a DP. it rather exposes a particular agenda quite succinctly.

That's not a fair way to depict the argument. I'm not a Red Sox fan and I'm a pretty big fan of Rodriguez. And I think what he did was pretty clearly "dirty," or whatever you want to call it. It's not like Rodriguez just slid into Pedroia. As he was getting up, he lunged at Pedroia, elbow first. I don't think it's such a big deal. I certainly don't think he was trying to hurt him. The consensus here seems to be that what he did was what most baseball players do, just in a very awkward and terribly masked fashion. No one really seems that bothered, but it's something to talk about and make fun of.

And, to do my part to contribute to this pissing match, if anything, your complete dismissal of what happened shows much more of a bias than anything any Sox fan here has sad.

56. kevin Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:45 AM (#2375712)

Can somebody go in and fix the margins, please? Dogma, edit your post so the margins are restored.

57. HowardMegdal Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:46 AM (#2375713)

OF course Kevin, maybe the Celts will just have to choose between Green and Hibbert- in next year's draft!

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=2879914

I'll believe it when I hear it- but I'd have one unbelieveable year of college basketball ahead of me if they both come back.

58. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:46 AM (#2375714)

What striking to me here isn't that ARod is a dirty player - what he does isn't much worse than what others do - but that he doesn't seem able to play dirty the way everyone else does. He has to do it in a way that sticks out, that looks unnatural, that looks sort of silly, and that gets him in trouble.

So this is a Ricardo Carvalho vs. Marco Materazzi type thing?

Ricardo Carvalho is a dirty player, he gest away with a tonne of shiite... while Marco is dirty, but has a bad rep?

59. JC in DC Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:46 AM (#2375715)

I saw the replay. He doesn't swing his elbow, he pushes with his elbow, and the distinction is that it would have been very difficult to hurt Pedroia doing the latter. It's really a nothing play. The ump could've called it, which would have been justifiable. Not a big deal, IMO.

60. ghost of perros Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:47 AM (#2375717)

If you're going to throw an elbow, make it count -- Pedroia couldn't have said much if his jaw was wired shut.

61. Mister High Standards Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:47 AM (#2375718)

Are people surprised by this? Lets see... Elijah Dukes acts like a psycho, Arod takes a cheap shot, THAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Yankees lose, and the Celts get boned. Seems like just another day to me.

62. bunyon Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:48 AM (#2375719)

Thanks for the link. My conclusion is that it was not dirty or cheap but just a poor play. It was a hard slide and ARod realized that he was late getting there and that Pedroia had done a good job of clearing the base. The only way for ARod to impede his throw was to use his arms. It didn't look to me like he was trying to land a punch or hurt Pedroia. He was trying to break up the double play and he failed. IMO, the ump blew the call - it should have been ruled interference as Arod went well out of his way and the basepath to make contact - intentionally - with the fielder making a throw. The slide itself was fine but late. The elbow was well past and to the side of the base.

63. dogma bites Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:49 AM (#2375721)

You are right, the video shows clearly who is biased. But since it shows that it's Sean, I'm not sure why you linked it. Do you see ARod's arm there? This is not close.

If you want to raise things that Sox players have done over the years, there's plenty of them...Pedro most obviously simply threw at guys and that's wrong. But to pretend this wasn't a dirty play simply says you don't have objectivity.

you're funny. look, the game's played on the field. arod slides hard thru pedroia. arod may or may not get hit the next time up. no wait, the sox have already thrown at jeter 25 times over the past few seasons. this 'wow arod's so dirty' crap is a tad ludicrous considering the red sox have led the AL in pitchers hitting batters in '06, '05 and came in 2nd to tampa in '04.

64. kevin Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:50 AM (#2375723)

You a Georgetown alum, Howard?

65. kevin Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:51 AM (#2375725)

dogma, quite bullshitting for a second and fix the goddamned margins by deleting the link in #44 for Christ's sake.

66. dogma bites Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:51 AM (#2375727)

Thanks for the link. My conclusion is that it was not dirty or cheap but just a poor play. It was a hard slide and ARod realized that he was late getting there and that Pedroia had done a good job of clearing the base. The only way for ARod to impede his throw was to use his arms. It didn't look to me like he was trying to land a punch or hurt Pedroia. He was trying to break up the double play and he failed. IMO, the ump blew the call - it should have been ruled interference as Arod went well out of his way and the basepath to make contact - intentionally - with the fielder making a throw. The slide itself was fine but late. The elbow was well past and to the side of the base.

objectivity! you mean he didn't leap and lunge on pedroia after the play as some have implied?

67. kevin Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:51 AM (#2375728)

Thank you.

68. JC in DC Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:52 AM (#2375729)

The new Chinese guy is NOT better than Yao, at least not at center.

And after watching Hibbert play for two years, ain't no way he's better than Oden. He's fat, slow, and lazy. Even JT II gets on him about his effort. He's a real risk.

69. PJ Martinez Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:54 AM (#2375732)

Here's a longer quote from Pedroia on this:

"He went in late and kind of threw an elbow. A little cheap, but no big deal... He's the one who slid in like that. Some people play like that and some people slide in, good, clean slide. I think he probably got a little carried away. It happens."

Sounds reasonable to me.

70. kevin Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:54 AM (#2375733)

71. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:55 AM (#2375734)

Dustin Pedroia should have have went apeshiiite on A-Rod, and called him a racist or something.

That would have been infinitely more fun.

72. dogma bites Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:55 AM (#2375735)

Thank you.

you're welcome. btw you're looking a little pekid. want to come into my office to throw up?

73. Backlasher Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:55 AM (#2375737)

OF course Kevin, maybe the Celts will just have to choose between Green and Hibbert- in next year's draft!

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=2879914

I don't think this is a great move by either. Jeff Green has very high stock coming off his Big East player of the year. Hibbert shot up about 10 places with his play against Oden. Joakim Noah saw his stock fall after having a better season.

You are playing for slightly better money against an equal chance your stock will fall plus the chance of injury.

Plus, you do have the next wave of underclassmen coming out like Thabeet, Budinger and Lawson. Moreover, the HS that will be freshmen next year aren't chopped liver (Rose, Beasley, Jordan, Mayo, and Green). You also have the likelihood of getting Batum to post, and a graduating Harden. At least some of that group is going to improve their stock come NBA time, and challenge for 1-3 position.

74. The Orodruin of DOOM Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:56 AM (#2375739)

DRAMA!

75. dogma bites Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:56 AM (#2375740)

well, i'm off to go print off that national league hall of famer thread...i'll read it in stall #3. i gotta shut this thing down before the IT cops tell me i'm not doing my job.

best to all of you -

dogma

76. kevin Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:57 AM (#2375742)

What makes me nervous about Oden is that he doesn't have any well-developed skills. He's all sizzle and no steak at this point. I suppose he'll rebound and defend right away but there is no guarantee he'll ever develop offensively. You would like something more of a sure thing with the #1. I think BL might be right that Durant is going to have the better career.

77. pkb33 Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:58 AM (#2375743)

http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?s=&showtopic=19028&view=findpost&p=778747

Click the video here. ARod did lunge at Pedroia after the play, and it's beyond dispute really. I doubt anyone remotely objective would argue that.

How bad it is to do that, people can disagree on I guess. But it's clearly a cheap shot.

78. JC in DC Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:59 AM (#2375744)

Here's a longer quote from Pedroia on this:

"He went in late and kind of threw an elbow. A little cheap, but no big deal... He's the one who slid in like that. Some people play like that and some people slide in, good, clean slide. I think he probably got a little carried away. It happens."

Sounds reasonable to me.

I agree.

I agree w/BL about Wright's frame, too, but (as I've said before) have the same concerns about Durant's. I must say I find this draft very interesting, in part b/c I think it looks so promising superficially, but I see lots of players with clear limitations. For instance, if Horford's a top 8 or so pick, I think you've got a draft with high bust potential. Horford looks ok to me, but not much more, and I think he's the best of the FLA group. In a way, this may be a good draft to be in the middle of the round and take an int'l player or a no-name guy who may be as good or better in the long run than one of the marquee players. (I'm excluding Durant and Oden from this, of course; maybe Wright too.)

79. Backlasher Posted: May 23, 2007 at 10:00 AM (#2375747)

BL, you really think Wright's slight frame is a problem?

Look at what Tayshean Prince has been able to do.

Speaking of Prince, is he at the top of the list for most effective player who looks like ####?

Tayshaun (who was added to the USA Olympic roster today) is a perimeter player. When he was at KU, they used him as a primary ball handler.

As I mentioned in other threads, Wright's best comparable is Bosh, who is also slight of frame.

I think Wright needs to gain weight, b/c his best moves are his post moves. At 210, he can get bodied out. That is particularly going to be true for the Hawks where he is going to be a focal post option in the offense. Its not like they are going to rotate him down from the perimeter. He is going down there Duncan style.

I think he is going to be a good NBA player. I also think he needs to gain weight.

80. Backlasher Posted: May 23, 2007 at 10:02 AM (#2375748)

I agree w/BL about Wright's frame, too, but (as I've said before) have the same concerns about Durant's.

Durant is closer to being a Prince thought, but a much better rebounder. You can play and will play Durant on the perimeter.

81. JC in DC Posted: May 23, 2007 at 10:03 AM (#2375750)

What makes me nervous about Oden is that he doesn't have any well-developed skills. He's all sizzle and no steak at this point.

This is nonsense. As you added immediately after, he's a great defender and defensive rebounder. Additionally, he's got decent (not great) footwork and soft, strong hands. He'll continue to develop the little offensive game he flashed in the tourny. He'll be a fine player. The bigger problem than his skills, to my mind, are the environment he's going into. I can't think of a worse place to put a young man with money and fame than Portland.

82. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: May 23, 2007 at 10:04 AM (#2375751)

I, for one, am crushed that the Celtics aren't getting Oden or Durant. Looks like I'll be crawling back inside the bourbon again this winter.

A-Rod through an elbow and it wasn't the cleanest, but so what? I've seen guys get more carried away at beer league softball games. It happens. True, those guys are jerks, but people get carried away sometimes.

83. PJ Martinez Posted: May 23, 2007 at 10:06 AM (#2375753)

"I can't think of a worse place to put a young man with money and fame than Portland."

How come?

84. JC in DC Posted: May 23, 2007 at 10:08 AM (#2375754)

By "Portland" I mean on the Trailblazers. If you follow the NBA, you'll know what I mean. It's been an asylum for close to a decade. It's like the NBA's Cincinnati Bengals.

The Celtics got what they deserved for tanking their season.

85. kevin Posted: May 23, 2007 at 10:09 AM (#2375755)

Isn't Portland the meth capital of the US?

86. kevin Posted: May 23, 2007 at 10:10 AM (#2375756)

JC, everybody tanks. It's a time-honored NBA tradition.

87. Josh Posted: May 23, 2007 at 10:10 AM (#2375757)

Speaking of Portland, Clemens vs Buchholz tonight.

88. Guapo Posted: May 23, 2007 at 10:12 AM (#2375758)

This reminds me of when Clemens threw that pitch over the plate in the 2003 ALCS, and Manny freaked out and claimed it nearly hit him. The Red Sox are very protective of their personal space.

89. bunyon Posted: May 23, 2007 at 10:17 AM (#2375762)

"He went in late and kind of threw an elbow. A little cheap, but no big deal... He's the one who slid in like that. Some people play like that and some people slide in, good, clean slide. I think he probably got a little carried away. It happens."

Yeah, that is a good take. Is this whole thing just a media construction?

90. PJ Martinez Posted: May 23, 2007 at 10:34 AM (#2375783)

I wondered if you meant that JC. I thought the whole "Jailblazers" thing was over, but you probably know better than I do. Brandon Roy seems like an upstanding guy, though.

91. HowardMegdal Posted: May 23, 2007 at 10:36 AM (#2375785)

"You a Georgetown alum, Howard?"

Nope. I'm a Bard man. But my father went to G'town law, and I've followed them since age 5. I'd root for Bard if they played G'town... so far, it hasn't come up.

"I don't think this is a great move by either. Jeff Green has very high stock coming off his Big East player of the year. Hibbert shot up about 10 places with his play against Oden. Joakim Noah saw his stock fall after having a better season.

You are playing for slightly better money against an equal chance your stock will fall plus the chance of injury."

I can see it more for Hibbert than Green. Hibbert has been improving- he could put himself into place as the consensus Number 1 with a dominating senior season, or even merely a good one, since he's 7'2". The argument for Green is he'd get to be the best player on a team with a very good chance of winning the national title, so not only would his draft position likely improve, he'd also get to experience that beforehand. But I don't disagree that he's not going up very much, particularly with the Celts apparently hot to take him fifth.

They are the consensus number 1 with both next year- they made the final four this year, and add two McDonald's All American guards. Even with just Hibbert, probably are consensus number 1.

92. milford_blatti has gap power! Posted: May 23, 2007 at 10:38 AM (#2375786)

you also don't start fights in full catching gear.

I haven't been around here long enough to see the original debate about this; but it's astonishing that with circumstances surrounding this fight, this is what Yankee fans choose to harp on. Arod takes a weak curveball off the elbow pad, then, instead of manning up and either taking his base, or charging the mound, pulls this grammar school tough guy routine where he stand at the plate and whines at Arroyo. Varitek steps up to protect his pitcher and tells Arod to take his base and Arod challenges him to a fight on National TV. So in this situation Varitek is suppposed to stop, remove his gear, and then smack Arod around? Wow.

the sox have already thrown at jeter 25 times over the past few seasons.

93. Cowboy Popup Posted: May 23, 2007 at 10:42 AM (#2375790)

"Is this whole thing just a media construction?"

Yeah, unless someone gets hit tonight.

94. ghost of perros Posted: May 23, 2007 at 10:47 AM (#2375792)

The hidden jewel in this draft is Corey Brewer.

95. Sean McNally Posted: May 23, 2007 at 10:57 AM (#2375802)

I'd root for Bard if they played G'town... so far, it hasn't come up.

St. Leo's must have put in a better bid to JT the elder then.

96. dcba Posted: May 23, 2007 at 11:07 AM (#2375809)

pkb33 Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:58 AM (#2375743)

http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?s=&showtopic=19028&view=findpost&p=778747

Click the video here. ARod did lunge at Pedroia after the play, and it's beyond dispute really. I doubt anyone remotely objective would argue that.

How bad it is to do that, people can disagree on I guess. But it's clearly a cheap shot.

And Pedroia didn't even get the force, either. Complaining to cover his tracks...

97. Benji Gil Gamesh Posted: May 23, 2007 at 11:13 AM (#2375814)

This is one of my favorites. EVERYBODY throws at Jeter. He hangs out over the plate. BB-ref's active HBP leader board shows 3 current Yankees in the top 10 (4 if you count Sheff.) It's not the Red Sox. Some Yankees just get hit alot. Jeter and Arod are two of them.

One of the most annoying things Jeter does is that exaggerated jackknife backward at anything that is remotely inside. He doesn't really crowd the plate in his stance but he steps decidedly toward it when he strides; so yeah, he's going to get hit a lot.

98. PJ Martinez Posted: May 23, 2007 at 11:16 AM (#2375820)

Yeah, Brewer looked amazing in the tourney. In fact, he looked like the best player on that team.

I think Ainge will take the best player available (assuming he doesn't trade the pick), and it seems at least possible that will be Brewer.

99. Tropical Storm Davis, aka Quilvio "Ebola" Veras Posted: May 23, 2007 at 11:20 AM (#2375823)

I've noticed a lot of softball players in my league mimicing Jeter by holding their right arm palm-up towards the umpire as they dig in. They do the jackknife too, but come on, it's softball.

100. winnipegwhip Posted: May 23, 2007 at 11:27 AM (#2375830)

Hal McCrae tells Dustin to quit whining.

Page 1 of 5 pages 1 2 3 4 5 >

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

<< Back to main

Wednesday, May 23, 2007

‘Cheap’ slide by A-Rod irks Pedroia

Reader Comments and Retorts

Support BBTF

My Bookmarks

Hot Topics