I don't think Oden is even the best available center.

Although, this strikes me as a bit of a double standard - if Peoria had done something like this, we'd hear praise for his scrappiness and guttiness and his "playing hard the right way."

He was hiding in the closet in case Varitek came to have a word with him about it.

Fine. They're going to get a really good player at #5. This is an incredibly deep, talent-laden top-heavy draft, the best one since 1985, when Ewing, Mullen, Malone, McDaniel, Perkins, Schrempf and Dumars were available. I think there are at least 7 or 8 players in this one who will be difference makers. I don't think Oden is even the best available center.

The hip check at second base that Jeter likes to pull is a good example of a dirty play that gets called "playing hard the right way"

i have a memory of david ortiz sliding hard thru jeter two nights ago. where's the thread on that?

all the words in the world can't change the fact that the game is played a certain way. guys slide. spikes hurt. get the hell out of the way if you don't want to get hit.

Right, and you don't take a swing at another player in the course of the game. Everyone knew that when I played ball. It's deadly obvious if you watch the games that contact is fine, and taking a swing at another player isn't. ARod could have slid off line, could have gotten his hip into Pedroia, and no one would be talking about it. It's that he swung his elbow at him, clearly after his sliding momentum had ended.

You must not have seen the replay, then...there's absolutely no question it was a cheap shot. ARod stood up and launched an elbow at him outside of the context of the play! I guess I'm unaware of any knowledgeable definition of a cheap shot that wouldn't encompass that...maybe you have one that says this is ok from somewhere?

I also think its a weak comment to say there's a double standard since you haven't suggested what other incident shows it. What you seem to really be saying is that you are a Yankees fan and you like ARod and the best you can do here is pretend there's some media bias. Weak, frankly.

I saw some clips of him yesterday. He's the real deal. He's better than Yao. A lot better. He's not quite as big but he's got skills galore and he's rawboned and rugged and has a mean streak.

you also don't start fights in full catching gear

arod's slide was *probably* in response to ortiz's hard slide thru jeter the night before. who can say for sure? the point is these things happen all the time, and repraisals are exacted shortly thereafter.

You are right, the video shows clearly who is biased. But since it shows that it's Sean, I'm not sure why you linked it. Do you see ARod's arm there? This is not close.

If you want to raise things that Sox players have done over the years, there's plenty of them...Pedro most obviously simply threw at guys and that's wrong. But to pretend this wasn't a dirty play simply says you don't have objectivity.

Thanks for the link. My conclusion is that it was not dirty or cheap but just a poor play. It was a hard slide and ARod realized that he was late getting there and that Pedroia had done a good job of clearing the base. The only way for ARod to impede his throw was to use his arms. It didn't look to me like he was trying to land a punch or hurt Pedroia. He was trying to break up the double play and he failed. IMO, the ump blew the call - it should have been ruled interference as Arod went well out of his way and the basepath to make contact - intentionally - with the fielder making a throw. The slide itself was fine but late. The elbow was well past and to the side of the base.

Thank you.

Here's a longer quote from Pedroia on this:

"He went in late and kind of threw an elbow. A little cheap, but no big deal... He's the one who slid in like that. Some people play like that and some people slide in, good, clean slide. I think he probably got a little carried away. It happens."

Sounds reasonable to me.

What makes me nervous about Oden is that he doesn't have any well-developed skills. He's all sizzle and no steak at this point.

you also don't start fights in full catching gear.

the sox have already thrown at jeter 25 times over the past few seasons.

I'd root for Bard if they played G'town... so far, it hasn't come up.

pkb33 Posted: May 23, 2007 at 09:58 AM (#2375743)

http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?s=&showtopic=19028&view=findpost&p=778747

Click the video here. ARod did lunge at Pedroia after the play, and it's beyond dispute really. I doubt anyone remotely objective would argue that.

How bad it is to do that, people can disagree on I guess. But it's clearly a cheap shot.

One of the most annoying things Jeter does is that exaggerated jackknife backward at anything that is remotely inside. He doesn't really crowd the plate in his stance but he steps decidedly toward it when he strides; so yeah, he's going to get hit a lot.

I always thought he lunged over the plate to cover the outside of it.

Ten and a half.