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Wednesday, March 26, 2008

Chicago Tribune blog: MacPhail: No Roberts deal with Cubs

Baltimore president of baseball operations Andy MacPhail told reporters in Ft. Lauderdale Wednesday that a Brian Roberts deal with the Cubs is off the table.

“We worked at it this long and we don’t have deal,” MacPhail said. “There’s other sides characterizing it as an impasse. You make the judgment.”

The Cubs have privately been saying Wednesday what MacPhail just laid out for the media. They feel they’ve done everything possible to acquire Roberts, but after nearly four months of stalemated talks, there’s no reason to believe a deal could happen by Opening Day.
...
So the Cubs will go with Ryan Theriot as their leadoff man and Mark DeRosa as their second baseman. When left-handers are starting, manager Lou Piniella said Wednesday morning that he may bat Kosuke Fukudome first.

But look for Piniella to go with Reed Johnson leading off against lefties at the outset of the season, so as not to put added pressure on Fukudome, who has had a sub-par spring.

NTNgod Posted: March 26, 2008 at 06:20 PM | 26 comment(s)
Related News: General, Baltimore, Chi Cubs

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1. Gamingboy Posted: March 26, 2008 at 05:30 PM (#2721217)

...... for now...........

2. Dewey, Local Boy and Soupuss Posted: March 26, 2008 at 05:32 PM (#2721221)

Is this thing finally laid to rest?

3. Sweet Posted: March 26, 2008 at 05:35 PM (#2721229)

Too bad. I do think Roberts would have been a meaningful improvement, both in direct comparison to DeRosa and in terms of optimizing the lineup and bench. (Also, I didn't realize until today just how much PECOTA loves him.) But, without knowing all the details, it's tough to fault Hendry for failing to come to terms with an organization that's notoriously hard to deal with.

Reed Johnson over Pie in CF gives me hives. Pie has looked great this spring and -- again, today's discovery -- has the second highest Upside score on the team. (Incidentally, he's tied with Colby Rasmus and just ahead of Cameron Maybin in this metric.) Let him play.

4. zenbitz Posted: March 26, 2008 at 05:38 PM (#2721231)

How about a shiney Dave Roberts? Only slightly used. Good as new, really...

5. hscs Posted: March 26, 2008 at 05:38 PM (#2721232)

I am so relieved... Mark DeRosa commented on the blog post.

Thank God!

I hope this really puts this to rest. Yes, Roberts would have been a decent addition to the roster, but not for the price they were asking for... a 5 for 1 for Roberts was just pure insanity. DeRosa was our MVP last year... hopefully he won't have to hear all this trade rumor crap anymore. I'm more worried about the rotation.

6. Gambling Rent Czar Posted: March 26, 2008 at 05:45 PM (#2721238)

Nooooo! I have the number one waiver in my NL Only. This blows!

7. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: March 26, 2008 at 10:17 PM (#2721389)

I'm torn, as usual, about this. On the one hand, the asking price seemed pretty steep and looked like it would cost the Cubs some of their better prospects. On the other hand, this is a team built to win now, not later and Roberts is probably the kind of guy who would help the team now.

As a slight aside, I know Cedeno's name was regularly connected with the various trade rumors. While I'm not high on Theriot, when did Cedeno become such a fashionable pick? Or is it just because he's got more upside than Theriot? Because he's been abysmal in the bigs and he's had some decent opportunities.

8. David Nieporent (now, with child) Posted: March 26, 2008 at 10:30 PM (#2721394)

Yet another brilliant move by the Orioles.

9. Moses Taylor's bus bench has been Tom Sellecked Posted: March 26, 2008 at 10:41 PM (#2721398)

Too bad, and hopefully we're done hearing about it. This probably hurts both teams, and there are definitely pieces that would help the O's and this would be an outstanding deal for the Cubs.

Looks like Murton didn't make the team, so someone's gonna get a good OF cheap. Bench is officially Ward, Johnson, Blanco, Cedeno, and Fontenot. I thought Matt was out of options, but the Trib story seems to think they can send him down. He made his ML debut in '04 and has spent time in the minors every season since then. Pretty much the same as Cedeno, IIRC. They acknowledge Ronnie is out of options.

10. Belfry Bob Posted: March 26, 2008 at 11:14 PM (#2721413)

For cripe's sake, David, why do you follow the Orioles at all? You do nothing but b###h. I mean, NOTHING. You don't even know what was offered, what was turned down, what happened, only speculation.

I've never met you, but you must be one unhappy guy.

11. David Nieporent (now, with child) Posted: March 26, 2008 at 11:49 PM (#2721431)

I know what didn't happen. Yet again.

12. Non-Fat Listachio Ice Cream Posted: March 27, 2008 at 02:12 AM (#2721466)

What didn't happen was probably the same thing last year... when Roberts wasn't traded for Giles.

Offer wasn't good enough.

13. David Nieporent (now, with child) Posted: March 27, 2008 at 07:00 AM (#2721486)

Great. Is it going to get better if we wait?

14. Belfry Bob Posted: March 27, 2008 at 07:45 AM (#2721512)

Even if a club is rebuilding, why do you trade someone just for the sake of trading them?

15. DKDC Posted: March 27, 2008 at 08:15 AM (#2721527)

Even if a club is rebuilding, why do you trade someone just for the sake of trading them?

What does that even mean?

You trade away Roberts because a team is offering you 4 young players of varying upside and ML-readiness that are going to do a lot more to help your team win in 2010 than Roberts.

Isn't that exactly what a rebuilding team is supposed to do?

And for the record, unlike DN, I do believe that the Orioles are 100% committed to rebuilding. However, not trading Roberts now could be a big mistake if he has a bad first half or gets hurt or has no suitors at the deadline.

MacPhail's negotiating style worked well for the Orioles with the Bedard trade, but I think it backfired here.

16. David Nieporent (now, with child) Posted: March 27, 2008 at 08:44 AM (#2721547)

Even if a club is rebuilding, why do you trade someone just for the sake of trading them?

You don't trade him "just for the sake of trading them." You trade him because it makes the club better in two years. It's hard to imagine any scenario in which Roberts is an important member of a competitive Oriole team.

And for the record, unlike DN, I do believe that the Orioles are 100% committed to rebuilding.

I think when they demoted Olson, they made it clear that they weren't at all committed to it. To be truly committed, both the GM and the manager must be on board. (That's not to mention George Sherrill.)

17. Andere Richtingen

Posted: March 27, 2008 at 08:51 AM (#2721551)

And for the record, unlike DN, I do believe that the Orioles are 100% committed to rebuilding. However, not trading Roberts now could be a big mistake if he has a bad first half or gets hurt or has no suitors at the deadline.

With MacPhail in charge, you might get a commitment to rebuilding, but unfortunately you may end up with something made out of papier-maché.

18. Weeks T. Olive Posted: March 27, 2008 at 09:47 AM (#2721613)

He made his ML debut in '04 and has spent time in the minors every season since then. Pretty much the same as Cedeno, IIRC. They acknowledge Ronnie is out of options.

He didn't debut with the big club until '05 and he didn't spend any time in the minors in '06. I had to look up that last part, since I more or less stopped watching in late June of that year.

19. DKDC Posted: March 27, 2008 at 09:54 AM (#2721628)

I think when they demoted Olson, they made it clear that they weren't at all committed to it.

So it's not a true rebuild unless you trade away all your veterans so you can rush your prospects?

Gotcha.

20. David Nieporent (now, with child) Posted: March 27, 2008 at 02:41 PM (#2721848)

So it's not a true rebuild unless you trade away all your veterans so you can rush your prospects?

Bringing up a 24 year old pitcher who has already pitched a successful season in AAA is not "rushing" him. Contrary to Oriole propaganda, the Orioles have never ever in the Angelos era "rushed" a prospect. Good prospects on well run teams do not spend a full season (or more!) at every level in the minors. If they called up Chris Tillman this year, that would be rushing a prospect. So, your premise is faulty.

As for "trading all your veterans away," talk to me when they trade more than two, okay? Teams routinely trade two veterans away in an offseason; that doesn't even qualify as making an effort, let alone the exceptional effort the Orioles should be engaging in. In any case, I don't know what a "true rebuild" is, but it's certainly not a full commitment to rebuilding when you don't trade away all your veterans who don't have a realistic prospect of contributing significantly to a contending team for you. The Orioles have no realistic prospect of contending before 2010; later the fewer veterans they trade away.

21. zonk Posted: March 27, 2008 at 02:46 PM (#2721851)

How about a shiney Dave Roberts? Only slightly used. Good as new, really...

I think we're going to see what Bip is up to, first.

22. David Nieporent (now, with child) Posted: March 27, 2008 at 02:58 PM (#2721859)

Robin Roberts appears to be more the age the Orioles like to focus on.

23. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: March 27, 2008 at 03:53 PM (#2721916)

The Orioles do have 162 games to play this year, including 81 at home. They need to sell tickets to those games. Putting a 48 win team on the field will impact the number of tickets they sell. You can negatively impact your rebuilding by completely decimating your revenue streams.

24. David Nieporent (now, with child) Posted: March 27, 2008 at 04:03 PM (#2721925)

Nobody is buying or not buying tickets to games based on the difference between 60 and 65 wins. (It's virtually impossible to be a 48-win team, and the Orioles are not, with or without Roberts.) Moreover, the Orioles' revenue streams have already been decimated (*). Ten straight years of losing, of being utterly noncompetitive. The only way they get better is if the team gets better. It's called long term thinking/planning.

(*) Of course, Angelos cleverly arranged to have the Nationals subsidize the Orioles, so the overall revenue streams have improved... but not through fan-related revenues.

25. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: March 27, 2008 at 04:30 PM (#2721946)

There are plenty of fans who buy tickets on the basis of how good they perceive the team is. Roberts is their most noticeable player. Then again, most of the tickets are sold by March 27th.

I think 48 wins is the theoretical replacement level team, which is why I used it.

26. David Nieporent (now, with child) Posted: March 27, 2008 at 07:36 PM (#2722028)

I think 48 wins is the theoretical replacement level team, which is why I used it.

I understand, but I don't think it's applicable. A trashing of the roster purely to cut payroll might make a team that bad -- though, I reiterate how hard it is to be a 48-win team -- but trading veterans for prospects can't possibly do that, unless the "prospects" are all A-ball starters, which I concede is a possibility if MacPhail is running things.

I think Markakis is their most noticeable player by now.

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Wednesday, March 26, 2008

Chicago Tribune blog: MacPhail: No Roberts deal with Cubs

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