Dayton Daily News: Brawl erupts at Dragons game, fan struck by ball

Castillo, both managers as well as 15 players were thrown out of the game. But almost an hour after the brawl, which lasted about 10 minutes, all of the ejections were reversed by the Midwest League.

The reversal came after the Reds and Cubs — parent teams of the Dayton Dragons and Peoria Chiefs — indicated they didn't want pitchers playing in the outfield, which is what each team would have needed in two spots.

Reds General Manager Walt Jocketty and Terry Reynolds, director of player development for the Chiefs, were in the stands and spoke by telephone with league President George Spelius, who likely will re-invoke the suspensions today.

Julio Castillo, winner of the 2008 Ben Christensen Award.

I think #32 for Peoria needs to take some serious time off, as well as the guy who threw the ball into the stands - and are those two the same person?

MiLB.com: Peoria's Castillo arrested in brawl game

Peoria pitcher Julio Castillo might have turned an ugly benches-clearing brawl into a criminal offense.

The 20-year-old Dominican right-hander was arrested on a felony assault charge Thursday night after heightening an already dangerous situation by hitting a fan with a ball in the first inning of the visiting Chiefs' 6-5 loss to the Dayton Dragons.
...
Interim Peoria manager Carmelo Martinez -- filling in for Ryne Sandberg -- came out of the dugout and got into an argument with Dayton skipper, Donnie Scott, who was coaching third. Martinez and Scott appeared to make contact before Castillo inexplicably fired a ball toward the Dragons dugout. The ball ricocheted into the crowd and hit a male fan, causing both benches and bullpens to empty.

Dragons left fielder Brandon Menchaca tackled Castillo from behind as skirmishes broke out all along the third-base line. The fan was taken to an unknown area hospital and his condition was unavailable.

Castillo is expected to be arraigned Friday, but the ramifications from this game will likely be felt by both teams for the remainder of the year, including their final regular-season meeting Friday night.

Absolute mayhem.

Peoria pitcher Julio Castillo appeared to be trying to hit a Dayton player with a thrown baseball in the dugout, instead hitting a fan in the stands who had to be taken to a hospital.

We have located Chuck Knoublach!

Yeah, Castillo's in some deep crap for this one. That was probably the last baseball he'll throw in a pro game this year.

This, I believe, was a deleted scene in the special edition DVD of "Sugar."

If it's a felony conviction - it's the last baseball he'll throw in the US in an actual game. That would get his visa revoked.

So it sounds like this Julio Castillo needs to work on his control.

I think #32 for Peoria needs to take some serious time off, as well as the guy who threw the ball into the stands - and are those two the same person?

Yup... about 0:22 is when you see him wing the ball into the stands.

#32 is indeed Julio Castillo.

In addition to Ryne Sandberg being the Peoria manager (luckily not present for the brawl), the Dayton Dragons hitting coach is Darren Bragg. If there are any Darren Bragg fans out there, let us know if he was involved in the brawl, because that could be the last straw that gets him kicked off my fantasy teams.

Castillo, both managers as well as 15 players were thrown out of the game. But almost an hour after the brawl, which lasted about 10 minutes, all of the ejections were reversed by the Midwest League.

The reversal came after the Reds and Cubs — parent teams of the Dayton Dragons and Peoria Chiefs — indicated they didn't want pitchers playing in the outfield, which is what each team would have needed in two spots.

Too effing bad. Then one of the teams should have had to forfeit.

That's an absolute disgrace, no place at all in professional baseball. The clip didn't have sound for me, but it seemed like the coach/manager of away team that was jawing was the one most culpable for getting the thing escalated as he was the one who insisted on poking his head around the umpire to continue his verbal barrage. 20 year-old kids will act like 20 year-old kids, but you'd expect a grown man to display a bit more maturity on the field.

Especially considering that it was the home team's player that got beaned... I'm not sure why the away team manager was so upset, as it was his pitcher that beaned the guy in the guy.

Regardless, total and utter disgrace. Unless Castillo is some uberstud pitching prospect, his days in American professional baseball are numbered.

Also, according to the Dayton Daily News article, Peoria's 2B suffered a broken leg in the melee.

Again, just an absolute disgrace.

Also, according to the Dayton Daily News article, Peoria's 2B suffered a broken leg in the melee.
No.

...The hostility started to build when Brandon Waring grounded a ball past Castillo toward second baseman Gian Guzman. Castillo and Guzman collided as Waring reached base safely, but Guzman suffered a broken leg and left the contest on a stretcher.

but it seemed like the coach/manager of away team that was jawing was the one most culpable for getting the thing escalated as he was the one who insisted on poking his head around the umpire to continue his verbal barrage.

Carmelo Martinez.

I think he had a rep for his temper back as a Padre, IIRC.

The article says Peoria's 2B (Gian Guzman) broke his leg earlier in the game, fielding a grounder. A coincidence.

Castillo's stats do not peg him as an uberprospect, and he's never been written up as such. But he's still young for the Midwest League. Ah, well...

In addition to Castillo not pitching anymore, I don't think Carmelo Martinez can look forward to many more instances of interim managing.

Wow...this is the most disgraceful melee I've seen since Ron Artest climbed into the stands. Not even that entertaining, just sad and repulsive. When major league players go at it with each other, it's easier to enjoy as a wacky bit of venting - they're rarely throwing punches to truly harm each other and I've never heard of a bystander getting hit. But this looks like people were really aiming to maim.

Carmelo Martinez.

I think he had a rep for his temper back as a Padre, IIRC.

I presume that if his nickname really was "Mellow Carmelo", it was ironic?

I liked the part where Rick Mahorn came onto the field and was immediately suspended before he got a chance to knock anyone down.

Once again I have to be the weirdo. I have no problem with the fight; guys want to fight, whatever, that's fine with me. I honestly wish Organized Baseball would cut out all the silliness they engage in to prevent fights. The only one thing I have a serious problem with is Jorge Castillo firing a ball like that in the general direction of fans. If he were banned from baseball for life, that would be fine with me.

Julio Castillo should be banned from baseball for this.

I'm not joking.

I have no problem with the fight; guys want to fight, whatever, that's fine with me

You probably enjoy bear baiting too.

Nowhere in the rules of baseball is there a provision for fighting.

That makes less than zero sense, Bob T. For example, these guys are fighting voluntarily, not being forced into it. For another...no, that's enough to make this have nothing in common at all with bear baiting.

I don't enjoy bear baiting, I don't enjoy UFC, I don't enjoy fighting in general. But I also am absent of any moral outrage over a bunch of baseball players getting into a fight with each other. And I see batters able to stand on top of home plate and get a pitch over the outside corner right in their wheelhouse because umpires don't allow pitchers to throw inside, even a tiny bit inside, and I wish they'd just tolerate the occasional beanball war and brawl and let the players police themselves for the most part.

I watch this fight and think "wow, this is kind of ridiculous," but I *don't* watch it and think, "This is an outrage! This is a disgrace!" The fight, mind you. A pitcher firing the ball towards innocent fans, that *is* an outrage and a disgrace. The fight itself, no.

Julio Castillo should be banned from baseball for this.

I'm not joking.

That's ridiculous. Rob Dibble did the same thing, serving only a suspension.

I'm somewhat surprised that there have been only Julio Castillo and only one Jorge Castillo in the BB-Ref database. (compared to three Jose Castillos and four Juan Castillos). Jorge Castillo is a 1B prospect with the Bristol White Sox at the moment, and does not deserve to be banned from baseball, as far as I know.

"the Dayton Dragons hitting coach is Darren Bragg."

I would NOT want to pick a fight with Darren Bragg, if he's in anything like his playing shape.

"A pitcher firing the ball towards innocent fans, that *is* an outrage and a disgrace."

Unfortunate, maybe, but a disgrace? It's not like he was aiming for the fan...

Fine, let 'em all beat the crap out of each other all game long. Sounds like a great way to promote the game of baseball.

does throwing a ball into the stands constitute recklessness? otherwise there's no way he goes down on felony assault.

Bob, would you like to make an argument in favor of doing everything necessary to prevent fights, rather than leaping to ridiculous conclusions about what's in my mind?

does throwing a ball into the stands constitute recklessness? otherwise there's no way he goes down on felony assault.

Um... yes. That was quite thoroughly reckless.

It's just as reckless as firing a ball into any other crowd of people. I presume it was a fastball.

Bob, you're twisting around people's words here in a way that seems unlike you. Nobody has said they find brawls entertaining and wish there were lots more to satisfy their thirst for blood. Just that they aren't offended by the sight of grown men fighting consensually. There's a difference.

Deep breaths...

does throwing a ball into the stands constitute recklessness? otherwise there's no way he goes down on felony assault.

I think you can make a case that throwing the ball in the manner he did, even if he didn't intend for it to go into the stands (but rather hit a player in the dugout) is reckless per se. This isn't a question of tossing a foul ball into the stands for a fan to catch, after all.

What doesn't make sense is why he would be charged with felony assault. Felony assault falls by the wayside once an offensive physical contact occurs. If Castillo actually hit a guy with that ball, as the report says, then the charge should be aggravated (felony) battery: he intended to hit the player in the dugout with the ball (which is obviously being classified as a "deadly weapon" for these purposes, however questionable a call), and even though he missed that player, the intent transfers to the fan in the stands. He could conceivably be brought up on an additional charge of aggravated (felony) assault for tossing the ball at the player, however.

Either way, he ###### up big time.

does throwing a ball into the stands constitute recklessness? otherwise there's no way he goes down on felony assault.

Getting pissed off and winging a 90 MPH pitch into the stands for no good reason? Reckless to me.

Not only that, but it looks like he didn't just throw it in the stands, he pitched it and had a followthrough, like he intended to aim for someone.

Sorry, I guess the rational side of my brain was knocked out by an errant baseball tonight.

But I am offended at the sight of grown men fighting. Even if it is consensual. But I see that others aren't. I'm not going to fight about because I hate ironic fights.

Julio Castillo's stats from Peoria (in 2007 and 2008): 30 IP, 22BB/11K, 8 WP, 4 HBP

Yeah, I can see how he might be a bit wild.

That's ridiculous. Rob Dibble did the same thing, serving only a suspension.

Didn't he fire the ball into the stands from several hundred feet away?

Regardless, Albert Belle intentionally drilled a fan in the stands with a thrown ball, and if he got suspended, it wasn't for very long. I just wish his arm had been that accurate during actual games.

Scott & Martinez were teammates on the 1991 Reds. A brawling team--that was the year Dibble threw a ball into the stands and hit a woman way out in the OF. He also nailed Doug Dascenzo at Wrigley and got into it with Pinella. Reds & Astros had a several year beanball battle with a few dustups in '91.

I could swear I saw Shawon Dunston fire one of his trademark missiles 20 rows into the stands on an "errant" relay..

Belle's suspension was six games, FWIW.

What doesn't make sense is why he would be charged with felony assault. Felony assault falls by the wayside once an offensive physical contact occurs. If Castillo actually hit a guy with that ball, as the report says, then the charge should be aggravated (felony) battery: he intended to hit the player in the dugout with the ball (which is obviously being classified as a "deadly weapon" for these purposes, however questionable a call), and even though he missed that player, the intent transfers to the fan in the stands. He could conceivably be brought up on an additional charge of aggravated (felony) assault for tossing the ball at the player, however.

As in many states, Ohio has conflated assault and battery in its criminal code; what is assault under the common law has been renamed "menacing." If the ball is classified as a deadly weapon, and/or the fan suffered "serious injury," then Castillo is guilty of either felonious assault (ORC § 2903.11) or aggravated assault (ORC § 2903.12), both felonies, under Ohio law (*). My guess is that the situation represents typical prosecutorial overcharging for the purpose of plea bargaining, but it might well fit the elements of felony assault.

Does anybody know whether Castillo is considered a prospect? If he's not, I would suspect his career would be over. If he is, well, talent cures all sins, unless your name is Barry Bonds.

Regardless, Albert Belle intentionally drilled a fan in the stands with a thrown ball and just got a suspension. I just wish his arm had been that accurate during actual games.

Belle was being specifically taunted by that fan, however. Not a defense, of course, but it's likely to make it different than Castillo, who injured an innocent bystander. (Comparing this to Dibble is silly; Dibble heaved a ball from the mound into the outfield stands, not at someone.)


(*) This ain't legal advice, yadayadayada. I'm not admitted in Ohio; I'm just reading the ORC.

My understanding is that Castillo was trying to throw the ball at someone in the dugout and missed, the ball going into the stands. There certainly seems to be intent to injure someone. You shoot a gun at someone and miss the intended target but hit an innocent bystander, you're no less guilty.

The case may hinge on the condition of the injured party. Either way, Castillo should see an Artest-type suspension at the very least.

But almost an hour after the brawl, which lasted about 10 minutes, all of the ejections were reversed by the Midwest League.

If this wasn't grounds for a double forfeit, what is? Putting those players back on the field was absolutely silly.

So did that mean that, technically speaking, Julio Castillo was allowed to resume pitching after this?

They reinstated all of them, according to every article I read. Castillo was not returned to the mound, and was credited with the loss. Dayton's starter was also pulled after the brawl, but I'm guessing that had to do more with the long delays (1:09) than anything else.

Box score

I don't think this is an unfortunate consequence of baseball's beanball and brawl culture, I think it's the inevitable result of that culture.

How many times are we going to tolerate grown men acting like thugs and pass it off as simply boys being boys. Professional baseball's tacit approval of these behaviors creates an environment where Julio Castillo feels emboldened to do what he did. Same for Shawn Chacon. Same for Frankie Francisco.

What's the problem with holding baseball players to the same expectations as you would any other person?

The fight part looks even worse in the footage below, but the guy misses the ball getting tossed into the stands.

For some reason, after Castillo threw the ball and the fight wore down, Castillo (I think it is - couldn't fully make out the uni number) was escorted over to his dugout, and after he's getting jeered hardcore, picks up a bat off-camera and appears to possibly be brandishing it at someone who is off-camera (a fan?) as he's getting held back by a coach.

#5 on the Dragons seems to score a couple of takedowns.

WARNING: LANGUAGE NFSW!
Very shaky YouTube footage of the brawl

How many times are we going to tolerate grown men acting like thugs and pass it off as simply boys being boys. Professional baseball's tacit approval of these behaviors creates an environment where Julio Castillo feels emboldened to do what he did. Same for Shawn Chacon. Same for Frankie Francisco.

So we severely punish Julio Castillo for doing what he did. We're adults; we can draw a line. Fight with other players, that's not cool; you receive a light penalty (suspension for a week, give or take). Recklessly endanger the safety of innocent fans, that's completely unacceptable; you receive a severe penalty.

Suspension for the remainder of 2008 is the penalty I lean toward. Anything more than that--say a calendar year, the Artest penalty--sends the message strongly, which is good, but for a prospect, that's pretty close to a death sentence on his career because of lost development. I wouldn't complain if the guy got banned for life, but it's harsher than I'd choose. I'd rather see the draconian banned for life than the wristslap suspended for 10 games.

It's just as reckless as firing a ball into any other crowd of people. I presume it was a fastball.

If it's a knuckleball, it's okay. He actually could have been throwing that towards home plate. If Jamie Moyer does this it's just a misdemeanor as the fan probably could throw it back harder.

I watch this fight and think "wow, this is kind of ridiculous," but I *don't* watch it and think, "This is an outrage! This is a disgrace!" The fight, mind you. A pitcher firing the ball towards innocent fans, that *is* an outrage and a disgrace. The fight itself, no.

I agree with this. I only wish that when there is a baseball brawl, someone would throw those prop bottles and chairs they use in Westerns onto the field to give it all a little oomph.

Good timing:

"Chicago Cubs Hall of Famer Ryne Sandberg will return to the Wrigley Field dugout as a minor league manager on Tuesday, July 29 when his Single-A Peoria Chiefs host the Kane County Cougars in an official Midwest League contest. The game will begin at 7:05 p.m. and is believed to be the first minor league contest in the ballpark's 94-year history."

Juan Castillo will throw out the first pitch.

My favourite part of baseball brawls is the sideways skipping most of the players do, when looking for a partner. It's quite comical imo.

I liked the comment in the Peoria paper by Sarcastic Teenager.

This could have been avoided if all the fans and coaches had been carrying handguns!

Castillo will probably never play in organized ball again.

Every time I see a brawl, I think of the fight in Ball Four.

"Chicago Cubs Hall of Famer Ryne Sandberg will return to the Wrigley Field dugout as a minor league manager on Tuesday, July 29 when his Single-A Peoria Chiefs host the Kane County Cougars in an official Midwest League contest. The game will begin at 7:05 p.m. and is believed to be the first minor league contest in the ballpark's 94-year history."

FWIW, Ryno wasn't in the dugout for this game as he's in Cooperstown for HoF weekend...

This is why they are minor leaguers. They don't know you are supposed to wait for someone to come and hold you back, while everyone else just stands around trying to look tough.

FWIW, Ryno wasn't in the dugout for this game as he's in Cooperstown for HoF weekend...

I assumed he was being suspended again. I know he had at least one 3-game suspension and I heard he has been kicked out of other games. I don't remember him ever being tossed in a major league game.

Anyone remember the Mario Soto-Claudell Washington insanity?

I don't think this is an unfortunate consequence of baseball's beanball and brawl culture, I think it's the inevitable result of that culture.

This is pretty much my stance on the whole matter, too. Just a few threads up, there's a thread about a commentator calling on the pitcher to throw at Reyes' neck. There are hardly ever severe punishments handed out, and violance on the pitch is not just tolerated it's often encouraged. Honestly, how do you expect players to behave, if that is the example you are setting...

Bahhh...

Unless I'm just not seeing everyone's tongue firmly in cheek, much ado about nothing.

Baseball is nowhere near as beanball, spikes high, take-out-the-catcher, anything's legal if the umps not watching as it used to be.

I'm not defending this brouhaha, but people act like there's some sort of epidemic of brawls happening, completely forgetting that our digital age simply makes the fewer number of brawls more prominent.

Young athletes occasionally get in fights. Sometimes those fights get out of hand. Punish accordingly, but it's hardly something I'm wringing my hands over.

As best as I can tell:

The previous day, 3 Peiora batters get hit.
In the top of the first, Lotzkar hits a Peiora batter.

OK, so Peiora want payback.

Bottom of the first:

Castillo hits Cozart in the head - Cozart leaves game.
Castillo collides with Guzman (his own teammate) - Guzman leaves game with broken leg.
Castillo gets tagged for four runs.
Castillo hits Cabrera.
Cabrera slides "hard" into Samson.
Castillo nearly hits Menchaca.
Scott complains to umpires (presumably saying Castillo should be ejected).
Martinez comes on to field (presumably saying Dayton have brought this on themselves with their own actions).
Martinez and Scott go at it, Castillo is standing around on the mound.
Both teams presumably furious and aggrieved.
At this point I assume someone on the Dayton bench shouts something uncomplimentary at Castillo.
Castillo throws the ball at the Dayton bench (unforgiveable). Misses, hits fan.
All hell breaks loose.

I don't think this is an unfortunate consequence of baseball's beanball and brawl culture, I think it's the inevitable result of that culture.

QFT.

Look at the sequence of events. Maybe Castillo is a lunatic, but both teams are just following the "unwritten rules." Four Peiora batters get hit - payback! But now Cozart gets hit in the head - payback! But now a fielder gets hurt and the pitcher is getting slapped around - payback! But now the batting team aren't going to take being hit again - more payback! But how dare you slide in hard on our fielders - payback for the payback! But you're going to hit another of our batters? It just gets fiercer and fiercer at every stage. And the teams play each other several days in a row and so the bad blood keeps running. And there is no way for either side to back down without losing their machismo, which is what this was all about.

Both managers and both sets of players will feel they are in the right - "I was just protecting my teammates." That's what makes it the inevitable result of the beanball culture. Castillo deserves a lengthy suspension, sure, but both organisations need to be heavily fined, and I would be considering suspensions for the managers too.

Chicago Cubs Hall of Famer Ryne Sandberg will return to the Wrigley Field ... believed to be the first minor league contest in the ballpark's 94-year history."

Insert your own punch line.

Julio Castillo's stats from Peoria (in 2007 and 2008): 30 IP, 22BB/11K, 8 WP, 4 HBP

Does that count yesterday's game?

Oh, and Alou, it's "Peoria." I usually think acting as the spelling police on web threads is lame, but you misspelled it the same way four times. It isn't that difficult.

Castillo sounds like he sucks, so I needn't have any cognitive dissonance re. rooting against him. Kind of like Christensen. The one Cub first rounder I was very happy to see fail miserably.

and I would be considering suspensions for the managers too.

I'd make the one for Martinez a heck of a lot longer. He instigated contact while the other manager was arguing with the ump.

If this wasn't grounds for a double forfeit, what is? Putting those players back on the field was absolutely silly.

Do they have to refund tickets if they do that? No way they'd ever put themselves in that position.

Does pro ball have a provision for a double forfeit? At worst, the game would have just been postponed and made up today as part of a doubleheader.

I will admit to being a jerk (very sorry about that) last night here in this thread, but I'm doing better than the comments about the brawl on the Dayton Daily News site:

By Pimp D-Lux

July 25, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this

On the upside, it was the only time you’ll see so many black folks fighting without someone pulling a gun.

Ohioite

July 25, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this

Bush is to blame!!

Look at the sequence of events. Maybe Castillo is a lunatic, but both teams are just following the "unwritten rules." Four Peiora batters get hit - payback! But now Cozart gets hit in the head - payback! But now a fielder gets hurt and the pitcher is getting slapped around - payback! But now the batting team aren't going to take being hit again - more payback! But how dare you slide in hard on our fielders - payback for the payback! But you're going to hit another of our batters? It just gets fiercer and fiercer at every stage. And the teams play each other several days in a row and so the bad blood keeps running. And there is no way for either side to back down without losing their machismo, which is what this was all about.

The thing that annoys me, is that 8 out of 10 times, these things can be avoided with a few timely ejections. What some of the players did was just plain dumb, and I am in no way trying to excuse their actions.

But I guarantee that everybody in the stadium could see that this situation was likely going to get out of hand. So why didn't the umpires decide to do something before it did?

My favourite part of baseball brawls is the sideways skipping most of the players do, when looking for a partner. It's quite comical imo.

True story. First year of pro ball for me, 1992 with the Helena Brewers (NDFA) in the Pioneer League. We have a double header at the friendly confines of the Butte Copper Kings (the Rangers affiliate, the Butte Rangers, I can't make this up). They played at Montana State, a beautiful area but an awful baseball facility, even back then. I pitch the first game of two seven inning contests and miracously get at least one future major league out (Rich Aurilla) although Desi Wilson (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/W/Desi-Wilson.shtml) takes me deep and get my second professional win. Helena wins like 7-1, 7-2. There's no clubhouse, so you just sit on the dugout bench as the trainer works on you. We get the standard 30 minutes between games and I get iced down once our trainer gets someone else taped up for the next game.

The Rangers start some lanky Latin kid (Madrigal) in the 2nd game and the first 5-6 guys for Helena score, culminated with a grand slam home run. The kid proceeds to throw a pitch over Danny Perez's (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/P/Danny-Perez.shtml) head, which prompts Danny, who was always ready to go a little nuts, to head out to meet him before the ball hits the back stop. The benches clear, and I've still got ice on my shoulder and elbow as I run out on the field thinking, "I've never been in a bench clearing fight...not in college, not in high school...NEVER". And now I'm running out here half dressed with one arm. And to be honest I was pretty nervous. People are throwing lots of punches at people, including some very strong people like Kenny Felder. But here I go, running out there and Aurilla, the Copper Kings starting SS, gets thrown out of the scrum on the mound very quickly right into me, so I grab him. He's smaller than me, I'm helping out, "keeping" him from getting onvolved. He laughs and says, "Cool. Just stand here." I laugh, relieved, because I've just met someone who wants to do exactly what I can do here...and just as he relaxes one of our relievers, my roommate TJ Schenbeck http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/S/Tommy-Schenbeck.shtml) de-cleats with a tackle after taking a 70 yard sprint from the bullpen which was all the way down in the rightfield corner. I was literally standing there holding air as TJ proceeded to drill poor young Rich Aurilla. They finally calmed everyone down, ejecting Madigral, Perez, and a couple other players.

TJ later told me he thought Aurilla was going after me and with one arm and I couldn't protect myself. He was exactly right. Poor Rich, thank god for friends like TJ.

But I think this story emphasizes some important points.

1) Minor league fights are real, unstaged, and the mojority of the combatants may not know what they are doing
2) The combatants who grew up a little tougher, whether because of socioeconomic circumstances or because they had a cruel older sibling (TJ), are way ahead of the majority of the rest of the "dancers" or pitchers who aren't stupid or directly involved in the fracas.
3) It's good to be friends with the #2 guys.
4) In a bench clearing brawl, always look for middle infielders if you aren't emotionally involved. They are smaller, are easier to intimidate by just size, and make good dance partners.

Despite this pathetic first participation, I redeemed myself years later coming out of bullpen and Shenbecking a guy "going after" one my our middle infielders. He had our guy by the shoulders, was at least 4 inches taller, and "looked like" he had evil intent.

I will say this. We had a pretty good team, but as a bunch of guys thrown together this "first fight" seemed to bring the team a little closer together. I'm not advocating it as a solution to any problem but that can be the "good" that comes out of it, if any.

Now a pitcher throwing a ball in the stands....that guy is going away. Look at his stats; if he was a prospect he might have survived that (see Frankie Francisco), but his team will release him the first chance it can and get him out of the country.

The thing that annoys me, is that 8 out of 10 times, these things can be avoided with a few timely ejections.

Exactly what I was thinking. Not only is Castillo's career over, but the umps who worked that game ain't long for the business, either.

#71

Thanks for the story. I'd love for more ex-pros to jump in on the site and give us their perspective. Good stuff.

Bush is to blame!!

You are right, current Chicago Tribune headline "President Bush plays Peoria"

It is not clear if Bush is coming to congratulate them or take them on in an iron cage death match.

I originally read the headline as "Fan injured, 17 ejected in Peoria Chiefs game".

Cool story, TC. Are you and TJ still friends? Aurilia now has enough money to have him whacked. :-)

Julio Castillo, winner of the 2008 Ben Christensen Award.


What is it with the Cubs and psycho pitchers? Christensen, Castillo, and didn't they have that guy that killed a bird intentionally? Maybe instead of psychos they should get guys that can throw strikes.

Really, Castillo couldn't hit the freaking dugout? IT'S HUGE!

and didn't they have that guy that killed a bird intentionally?

Jae Kuk Ryu.

Really, Castillo couldn't hit the freaking dugout? IT'S HUGE!

"You're not gonna hit me, meat, because you're thinking about. About how it would look to miss in front of all these people. Show me that million dollar arm, cause I've got a pretty good idea about that 5-cent head."

Baseball fights remind me of this.....

Comedian Greg Warren and One-Star People

About halfway, he starts talking about fighting the american way.

BTW, does this mean I have to update my Dayton reports? Luckily, I don't have Peoria or I'd have to adjust Castillo's "command" grade, among other things...

Thanks for the story. I'd love for more ex-pros to jump in on the site and give us their perspective. Good stuff.

CONCUR.

The most alarming thing about that story was that the Butte Copper Kings didn't have a clubhouse at their ballpark. ! An A-ball affiliate is less well equipped than a random high school team?

I originally read the headline as "Fan injured, 17 ejected in Peoria Chiefs game".

That's what it says.

on the plus side, Castillo closed off his front side and buried his throwing shoulder. ChadBradfordWannabe would be proud.

EDIT: whoops, didn't see CBW had already posted. My joke isn't funny now.

Good story there....

One thing to add:

Unless you really, really enjoy fighting for fighting's sake, I found it to be tough to build up the necessary hate that you would need to attack a guy that had nothing to do with it. In those parks where the bullpens are next to each other, one minute you're shootin' the breeze with the opponents' relievers and next minute you are supposed to go get him? Come on....

Hence, why I (and many others) preferred to "dance around" in a "peacekeeping" capacity

Alekel---

I'd be lying if I didn't think of his "intent" to throw and his arm action when I saw it.

#71 was great. thanks for posting it.

So why didn't the umpires decide to do something before it did?

Exactly.

There were 3 Peoria HBPs in the previous night's game, and one in the top of the first in this game. It should have been obvious to Messrs. Wilson and Amaral what was happening when Cozart got hit in the head. Wilson probably should have bounced Castillo then (the umpires have the leeway to toss a guy without a warning if they believe he's throwing at a hitter) and absolutely should have issued a warning to both benches then and there, which would have led to ejections when the second guy was hit.

-- MWE

That's what it says.

I know. I wasn't trying to say that my mis-reading was actually a humorous re-interpretation. Sometimes I just like to let people know what I see.

Someone's got to ask...

Torn_cuff, are you David England, Andy Paul, or Rafael Torrez? (I think those three guys are the only candidates from the information you provided.) Great story.

I can't believe no one has yet given props to the complete bad-assery of #7 Brandon Menchanca. Hes the one who Flying Death Monkey'd Castillo right after that jerk chucked the ball.
Castillo chucks the ball, then stands there for a second staring or something and then you see Menchaca come from off the screen - already in midair - and tackle him. It was awesome.

Too bad Menchaca can't hit (.174), he sure could in college (.395/.458/.786 with 28-30 SBs as a soph)

Torn_Cuff could always be Bobby M. Jones

Well the way he phrased, "miraculously get at least one future major league out" makes it sound like he probably wasn't a big leaguer, but I've been wrong before!

I'll go with Andy Paul. NDFA, won >= 2 games in '92, started and relieved throughout his career, and was in the minors many years later. Also missed the 1997 season (could have been in Indy ball, of course), given Torn_Cuff's handle, sounds reasonable. All of the other pitchers on the Helena Brewers were either drafted, won fewer than two games in '92, only lasted a season or two in organized ball, or made the majors.

That's ridiculous. Rob Dibble did the same thing, serving only a suspension.

Didn't he fire the ball into the stands from several hundred feet away?

Regardless, Albert Belle intentionally drilled a fan in the stands with a thrown ball, and if he got suspended, it wasn't for very long. I just wish his arm had been that accurate during actual games.

It's funny (in a sad way) that the Big League precedent for this stuff is a slap on the wrist, and the consensus here is that this Castillo kid is done in baseball, ought to be prosecuted as a felon, and might lose his visa/get deported.

But yeah-- I agree-- you can't just fire a fastball into the stands.

Too bad this whole thing went down the way it did, too, because that crazed act of chucking the ball into the stands was the only thing that made this brawl anything more than the garden variety baseball non-fight playing at a minor-league ballpark near you. The kind that should have that Benny Hill music playing in the background as 98% of the guys on the field pretend to care as much as the two or three hotheads that caused the whole thing.

The thing that annoys me, is that 8 out of 10 times, these things can be avoided with a few timely ejections.

That's not my experience. At least half the time it seems to make things worse by feeding a weird sense of persecution. By and large when things get to the brawl stages you're talking about people who aren't in their right mind.

OK, my experience is reffing high level touch football, but there are plenty of ugly situations with weekend warriors.

The only thing that worked at all for me in terms of diffusing ugly situations was to allow the guy with a grievance to vent briefly. Comes with no guarantee but it did work often enough that at one point I was routinely assigned games where they were expecting trouble.

I'll go with Andy Paul.

The btfwiki agrees with you. And his story was good.

Between this and the Sexson thing from earlier in the year, you could consider the mid-brawl hurling of objects to be the differentiator between dangerous brawls and "bench-clearing brawls."

Thank you Greg Franklin. I guess T_C likes giving a few clues and seeing if somebody like me or TdiEEnders can track him down. I remember that thread, but not the handle or identity of the player who played in El Paso. Agree with the great story part. Got more?

Which would you rather be drilled by, Castillo's throw or a flying bat?

Besides, you can't outlaw evolution.