Hmm.... a hitter huh? There must be some hitter out there with bonds to the giants...

And the reason the Giants would want to take on a failing power hitter with $13 million left on his 2010 contract would be????

A scary thought is that Lee is almost old enough for Sabean to consider him a catch.

You know who would be perfect? Aubrey Huff.

Not that this story has any real credibility, but I imagine trading Lee would be a bit of a concession on the season by Hendry. After a terrible start, Lee's been the team's only good hitter.

Wild card push, eh? Hilarious. There's 100 games to go. I'd be surprised if the Giants are still within 7 in half that time. Or within 6 if they trade for Derrek Lee.

Wild card push, eh? Hilarious. There's 100 games to go. I'd be surprised if the Giants are still within 7 in half that time.

Well, they're the Wild Card leader as of right now, so you're expecting them to fall off the pace by 7 full games over the next 50?

The Cubs are what, 2.5 games behind a couple of teams that they were universally considered better than before the season--in mid-June. It would be crazy for them to concede the season.

The Giants are riding on the crest of a hot steak right now, and almost certainly playing over their heads. The Cubs are in the exact opposite situation on both counts. Count me as among those who'll be surprised if both teams are still in this alignment a month from now.

The trouble with the idea that the Giants should pick up a hitter is that hardly anybody is out of contention yet, limiting their options..(Who's out..the Nationals, and maybe the Orioles? Everybody else is within a few games of the wild card.) I agree Huff would be a great fit. In another month more options may open up. That Lincecum/Cain one two punch can make up for a lot..

You know who would be a perfect fit? Mike Jacobs. Maybe pick up Guillen while they're in a trading mood...

It would be crazy for them to concede the season.

Is the difference between D. Lee and Hoffpauir really big enough that trading Lee would mean conceding the season?

I believe Eric Byrnes is the difference maker the Giants are looking for.

If the Nationals want to give us Nick Johnson for Merkin Valdez, happy to make the deal. Beyond that though, the Giants team has been the best staff in baseball and the bullpen has been magnificent; that's pretty hard to sustain.

I thought a month ago that Adam LaRoche made a lot of sense here, and I haven't changed my mind.

Juan Pierre. Juan Pierre can be had!

Johnson for Valdez works. Valdez probably couldn't pull Huff or Jacobs, but Sanchez might be too much for a rental on either of those two - notwithstanding the fact that the luster has really faded on Sanchez over the last few starts since Sabean came out and told everybody how bad he wanted to trade him. Another problem is the speculation that Sandoval's arm troubles lately mean he can't play third, casting some doubt on how good a move for a first baseman would be.

I still think the best idea is Sanchez for Mark DeRosa. I'm pretty confident as well that what we'll actually end up seeing from Sabean is a nonsensical and counterproductive move like acquiring Carlos Lee.

The Giants have had good pitching - fewest RA in the league - but is it really the "one/two punch" of Lincecum and Cain? It looks like it from the records and ERA (6-1, 2.66 for Lincecum and 8-1, 2.55 for Cain), but take a look at the numbers above.

Pitcher B is Lincecum, and those are the dominant numbers you'd expect from him.

Pitcher A is Cain, and while there's still plenty of time for regression, his K rate is down from his career rate while his BB rate is about the same.

Pitcher C is Barry Zito, and those numbers look awfully similar to Cain's.

Cain is getting good luck & defense (LOB%, BABIP) and most importantly, run support, which the poor guy never gets. He was arguably a better pitcher last year with his 8-14 record than this year with the 8-1 record, and it's about time he got some support.

Cain is good, but it's not Lincecum and Cain; it's Lincecum and everybody else. Randy Johnson has been a lot better since he stopped giving up 7 HR per game, and I would bet on him being better than Cain going forward.

Also, Lee or Huff? Yikes. I'd rather take a chance on Nick Johnson. Where the Giants really need help is at 2B - there's more room for improvement there.

Edit: that worked better in preview. Edit: ok fixed.

I thought a month ago that Adam LaRoche made a lot of sense here, and I haven't changed my mind.

How about Russ Branyan? The Giants have a huge hole at 1st base. Branyan can hit. (He'd be their best hitter.) He's not making too much money ($1.4). And he's only signed through the end of this season. Realistically, Seattle is not going to make the post-season. The Mariners could get some long-term value dumping a player who is not young and who is not signed for the long-term, anyhow.

So whom to trade for Branyan? How about Kevin Frandsen? Frandsen might not be all that good. He might, at best, be a utility infielder. (Because he got hurt last year, it's not certain.) But it's not as if Seattle is overloaded with hard-hitting middle infielders. I think it's fairly clear by now that Betancourt will never be a good hitter. If the M's want a little more than Frandsen, maybe throw in Danny Otero, too. Otero is a quality relief pitcher, now in AA.

I still think the best idea is Sanchez for Mark DeRosa. I'm pretty confident as well that what we'll actually end up seeing from Sabean is a nonsensical and counterproductive move like acquiring Carlos Lee

Why on earth would we gave up Jonathan Sanchez for a 35 year old FA to be? I like DeRosa, but he was acquired for 3 bullpen prospects, only of whom was close to the majors; that's not worthy of Sanchez.

15. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: June 14, 2009 at 01:50 PM (#3218939)
I thought a month ago that Adam LaRoche made a lot of sense here, and I haven't changed my mind

Yeah, but what would it take? LaRoche is an FA after the season, correct? As rentals go, he wouldn't be awful (contingent on Pablo being able to play 3b), but I'm guessing the Pirates would want more than the value of 2 1's, and there's no way the Giants should give up Alderson/Bumgarner/AnVil/Posey for him. I dunno - Henry Sosa is a nice live arm, but that's enough for the Pirates.

Yeah, but what would it take? LaRoche is an FA after the season, correct? As rentals go, he wouldn't be awful (contingent on Pablo being able to play 3b), but I'm guessing the Pirates would want more than the value of 2 1's, and there's no way the Giants should give up Alderson/Bumgarner/AnVil/Posey for him. I dunno - Henry Sosa is a nice live arm, but that's enough for the Pirates.

Not sure about that. Adam LaRoche seems like a guy who would take arbitration, and the Pirates don't seem to want to pay LaRoche another year. They'll take what they can get.

edit: Also, the Giants should look into trading for either Figgins or Brandon Wood because the Angels are going to want to trade one of them/let Figgins walk in free agency in the off season.

Why on earth would we gave up Jonathan Sanchez for a 35 year old FA to be?

Is this a serious question? I was under the impression Sabean had all but promised that this is precisely the type of move he was planning to make.

I still think the best idea is Sanchez for Mark DeRosa. I'm pretty confident as well that what we'll actually end up seeing from Sabean is a nonsensical and counterproductive move like acquiring Carlos Lee.

Ugh. Not El Caballo. They already have OF help in AAA in John Bowker if they only would call him up and play him.

How is DeRosa's defense at 2B these days? Burriss is so bad offensively that any middling legitimate major-leaguer would be a big improvement. Playing Juan Uribe would be a big improvement. A lower-profile trade for someone like Ryan Raburn would help immensely.

My worry is that Sabean doesn't realize how bad Burriss is. I can imagine Sabean thinking "well, he is hitting .246, which is low, but he has 11 SB! And he's fast, so he must be good at defense."

Burriss has a SLG of .277. .277!! His OBP of .302 isn't exactly rocking either. He's just really bad.

So whom to trade for Branyan? How about Kevin Frandsen? Frandsen might not be all that good. He might, at best, be a utility infielder. (Because he got hurt last year, it's not certain.) But it's not as if Seattle is overloaded with hard-hitting middle infielders. I think it's fairly clear by now that Betancourt will never be a good hitter. If the M's want a little more than Frandsen, maybe throw in Danny Otero, too. Otero is a quality relief pitcher, now in AA.

I would do that in a second - would the Mariners? Shouldn't they be able to get more than Kevin Frandsen? Frandsen is 27, you know. He's not even marginally a prospect.

Then again, maybe the Mariners want to compete and would like to take Edgar Renteria? Seattle's one of the few teams who would be improved by replacing their SS with Renteria.

interesting speculations...

The Giants have been pretty clear they are not getting a loaner to try and win this year...their youth bonanza starts hitting next year and that is when they expect to contend. They are enjoying being in contention now but not letting that cloud their judgement.

If they do make a trade they are almost guaranteed to be trading to get younger. And if they do trade for a bat it will be a right handed bat. One of their biggest weaknesses right now is a horrible line against lefty pitching.

The one loaner bat i could see them chasing is Kevin Millar, rightie, good defense, relatively cheap.


But honestly I don't see them making a trade for this year. Right now the organization feels like it went into the season with a decent plan and it seems to be working.


Other points:

Burriss is sticking at 2b, no power but he walks and hits enough to keep a decent OBP, so he is saving outs at one end and not losing them at the other, would like to see them move to #2 in the order instead of

Renteria, the worst player in the lineup, on the field or in the batters box. If the Giants are in contention 50 games from now they should be bringing in Brandon Crawford to be this years Sandoval.

Winn, I like the guy but he needs to be platooned right now, he is hopeless vs. lefties.

Rowand, is there something about batting leadoff that relaxes him, lowers the pressure? who knows but keep him there as long as he hits.

Cain, I think the change this year is real, he has started following the Reuter pattern, pitch to contact with no one on and shift inbto high gear once runners are on base. He is absolutely lights out with runners on base this year. (.149/.248/.240).

but in the larger sense...The Giants have given up the fewest runs in the league and also scored the fewest. I think the pitching and defense is quite authentically that good, and the offense, well in all seriousness, it can't get worse than it is. put it together and barring a Peavy or Webb type of injury i think this team is performing and winning at a rate they can maintain for the rest of the season.

Not that this story has any real credibility, but I imagine trading Lee would be a bit of a concession on the season by Hendry. After a terrible start, Lee's been the team's only good hitter.

Fukudome's been fine. No power, but .400 OBP is always acceptable.

Broadly speaking, a 2b is the largest marginal improvement - if DeRosa's defense is decent, getting him for similar scrubs to what CLE gave up would be very helpful (and keeping Manny Burriss around as a defensive sub and late inning pinch runner). Alternatively, we could move Uribe there, Pablo back to 3b, and acquire a 1b.

Vlad, what's the schpiel on Freddy Sanchez? How's his defense out there? I know the Pirates don't want his option to vest, so I imagine they would be amenable to moving him.

Winn, I like the guy but he needs to be platooned right now, he is hopeless vs. lefties.

That isn't true throughout his career, and it wasn't true as recently as last year - .812 OPS v. LHP and .781 OPS v. RHP.

He has been horrific against LHP this year, but it's 53 AB vs. his entire career.

I would do Lee for Sanchez or Branyan for Frandsen. Not sure if the other club would do it, but if that's the price than why not?

Neither is worth much more than that, though.


Broadly speaking, a 2b is the largest marginal improvement

And that was just as true four months ago, when Sabean was an idiot for not jumping at Hudson for 1 yr at less than $4M.

Local sports media is under the impression that Burriss is "the guy" at 2B and will be the starting 2B for the next contending Giants team, whether that's this season or next. No idea what Sabean thinks of the guy, but there's zero speculation about improving that position. For whatever that's worth.

Burriss has a very nice VORP. Here's how the Giants rank so far this year.

hmmm I wonder if Ty Wigginton is available...

Yeah, but local sports media isn't particularly good - ####, this town employs Bruce Jenkins. I agree that Manny's gotten a free pass, which is absurd - he has an OPS under .600!

Really, a deal with the Pirates to get LaRoche and Sanchez wouldn't suck if we didn't give up any of the Big 5 (Alderson/Bumgarner/AnVil/Posey, and prob Crawford) I'd be happy if Laroche accepted arb on a 1-year deal.

Artist, how good is Crawford? I've never seen him play. I know he was tearing up at San Jose, this year, but he was also a little old (22) for the California League. Is he a good shortstop defensively? If he was all that good at UCLA, why did he go so late (4th round) in last year's draft?

And before he got hurt last year, the local media were claiming that Frandsen was our 2B of the future. 15 months later, he's an afterthought. As #34 says, SF local sports media isn't exactly the cream of the crop and will generally jump on the bandwagon of whoever seems to be the flavor of the month.

That said, there's a good argument to be made that 1B is a bigger problem than 2B (assuming Sandoval can return to being primarily a 3B).

Is Josh Phelps still in the organization on some sort of injury rehab?

Agree, moving Sandoval back to 3B and finding a playable 1B would be a much bigger improvement. Keeping Sandoval at 1B and finding a real 3B (while more difficult), should in my opinion also be a higher priority than replacing Burriss. Getting LaRoche and Sanchez for Sanchez and some mid-level prospects would be a win-win, I think. The Pirates may be gun-shy after the McClouth ****storm, though.

I wasn't trying to say that local sports media has any actual value, or to make any kind of argument for Burriss based on their opinion, just offering that for whatever it's worth as an idea of what kind of moves are actually realistic. To the extent that it reflects some (debatable) level of insight into what management thinks about certain players.

The local sports media is friendly, non-confrontational, and incredibly f*cking easy for a PR-conscious organization (which the Giants undoubtedly are) to put in their pocket.

There's certainly good sides to that - not much rabble rousing here and you don't get the media with the knives out for a player - but you don't get many calls for change in the local media. Especially when the most prominent beat writer (Schulman) is a huge f*cking pushover.

It's really a miracle that the 49ers and warriors have managed to get anybody on their bad side, but it's also a miracle that their continued poor play hasn't gotten more condemnation.

Fukudome's been fine. No power, but .400 OBP is always acceptable.

He's been absolutely worthless since mid May, just like last year. Much though I hate to say it, until he shows me some ability to make adjustments as the season progresses, I'd hesitate to call him a "good hitter." Not until he sustains production resembling a major league outfielder for more than six weeks.

And DeRosa's defense is perfectly acceptable, if not particularly impressive, at second. He'd be a pretty big upgrade on Burriss.

The one loaner bat i could see them chasing is Kevin Millar, rightie, good defense, relatively cheap.

HA! Though I suppose if you consider "good defense" to mean "stealing the second baseman's plays and then not having a play at first", then sure, he's an excellent defender!

Sanchez is a below-average defender, but not a butcher. Maybe a -5 or so true-talent at 2B. He was a plus glovenat 3B the last time he saw regular play there, in case you're interested in that option.

That said, while Freddy is definitely gettable, I think they're going to want (and get) solid value back for him.

That said, while Freddy is definitely gettable, I think they're going to want (and get) solid value back for him.

Is Eddy Martinez-Esteve still in the system? We could trade him.

By the way, Cain is going to win the Cy Young this year.

I'm thinking the Giants can trade Pucetas and English to somebody...

Btw, The Giants have the 3rd best record in the NL....

And yes Cain has the inside track on the CY...but Timmy's gonna make it close...

Chad Billingsley just won his 9th game, and has a 2.72 ERA. He's going to be in the conversation.

Btw, The Giants have the 3rd best record in the NL....

With the caveat that you never know in a short series, it seems like this year's Giants rotation, should their team make the playoffs, is built for a nice run in the post-season. Zito and Unit are better than average pitchers, and following Lincecum and Cain you don't need that much. The back of their bullpen, too, has been fine. Of course, I'd like this club's chances a lot more if they could add some offense. As the unofficial representative of the A's, I'll accept Posey for Holliday.

Zach Duke just won his 7th game, and has a 3.10 ERA. Eh? Eh?

If you could sign Holliday to a decent extension, I actually think the Giants should do that.

EDIT: Damn intervening post. "That," of course, being trading Posey for Holliday.

Which is not happening since Scott Boras is his manager. And also replacing Fred Lewis with Holliday wouldn't be so big of a upgrade that you would think.

Which is not happening since Scott Boras is his manager.

Actually, Bob Geren is his manager.

Agent. Not manager.

And also replacing Fred Lewis with Holliday wouldn't be so big of a upgrade that you would think.

Why not?

I heard they were looking for a 3Bman.

Mike Lowell, hobble on down!

I mean, he's even under contract for another year.

And also replacing Fred Lewis with Holliday wouldn't be so big of a upgrade that you would think.

Why not?

because Holliday isn't very good.

because Holliday isn't very good.

That's not any kind of an argument as to why Holliday would not be an upgrade over Lewis. I can't find a reasonable metric which suggests he is not a big upgrade over Lewis:

Matt Holliday OPS+ 2009 -- 124
Fred Lewis OPS+ 2009 -- 93

Matt Holliday OPS+ career -- 131
Fred Lewis OPS+ career -- 103

Matt Holliday UZR 2009 -- 3.8
Fred Lewis UZR 2009 -- 1.3

Matt Holliday VORP 2009 -- 13.3
Fred Lewis VORP -- 2.7

35. Rich Rifkin Posted: June 14, 2009 at 04:38 PM (#3219253)
Artist, how good is Crawford? I've never seen him play. I know he was tearing up at San Jose, this year, but he was also a little old (22) for the California League. Is he a good shortstop defensively? If he was all that good at UCLA, why did he go so late (4th round) in last year's draft?

Rich, I'm not enough of a prospect hound, but I believe the knock on Crawford was that he was a tool shed in college who never put it together; he had 1st round talent. I don't think he's going to be a star, but he could be fairly good - especially since his defense gets raves. He's olding his own offensively in AAA and while I think he's due for some regression, there is definite upside here.

BA's recent (non-subscriber) writeup

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/prospect-hot-sheet/2009/268365.html

Team: Double-A Connecticut (Eastern)
Age: 23
Why He's Here: .321/.385/.388 (32-for-116), 7 2B, 3 3B, 8 HR, 23 RBI, 18 BB, 61 K, 4 SB, 7 CS
The Scoop: It's hard to imagine a player having a worse 2008. Brandon Crawford saw his once pristene draft status slip due to concerns about his bat, as he struggled during his junior year at UCLA. But all of those concerns have proven overblown since he became a pro. In a lineup that included Buster Posey, Conor Gillaspie, Angel Villalona and Roger Kieschnick, Crawford was the hitter who earned the first promotion thanks to an outstanding first month. His numbers have slipped a little in Double-A, but he's still hitting well enough considering he's also a solid defensive shortstop.

On the sports media, Flynn is dead-on; there just aren't absolute CHB like ########## (Jenkins aside) and for the most part, they parrot the official line; but neither are there any guys who question the team like a Dejan in Pittsburgh or a Joe Pos in KC. I like Andrew Baggerly, but the next time he asks a hard question will be the first time, and Kawakami is just bleh.

Btw, anyone else watch Cain today? He was hitting 95/96, and even 97 - the fastball was just dancing. I know the stadium gun is fast, but this was Jason-Schmidt like domination.

Cain is good, but it's not Lincecum and Cain; it's Lincecum and everybody else. Randy Johnson has been a lot better since he stopped giving up 7 HR per game, and I would bet on him being better than Cain going forward.

NS Chi, loved the numbers, but Randy J at 45 better than Cain from here on it?Not buying......Cain is also a lot better than Sanchez and Zito....maybe a Cy Young..now 9-1,BTW

There must be some hitter out there with bonds to the giants...

That's a barry bad pun.

That's a barry bad pun.

Yes, it isn't very punny, is it?