Harveys opening rant was sooo good n' plenty...it wouldn't fit on the intro. Here tis'.

There are many here who know of my distaste of Brewer manager, Ned Yost. I have stated pretty clearly that while I understand Ned has his positives that overall he is not the man for the job to guide this team on a go forward basis.

In the past I have outlined what I believe to be the important aspects of a manager’s job: recognize talent, organize talent, motivate talent, long-term planning, in-game (short-term) tactics. That’s it in my opinion. A manager can be deficient in possibly one, maybe two, of these areas and still be an effective manager.

So what of Yost? Well, the Brewers have been blessed with some OBVIOUS talent of late plus the GM, Doug Melvin, somewhat dictates who is going to be on the roster so the talent recognition is somewhat out of Yost’s hands. Talent organization is also a joint process between the manager and the front office. It’s very likely that given a choice Ned would not have kept Rickie Weeks at second base. But the club declared that Rickie was the second baseman so second base it was. Bill Hall moving to center was also the result of group think. Yost tinkers around the edges like every so often having Corey Hart play centerfield or making Carlos Villanueva a swingman in the mode of baseball before the one inning reliever but mostly he is given an outline before the season begins.

The long-term planning is also something done by the front office WITH the manager’s input. The Brewers decide in the off-season what is working, what isn’t, and what needs to be done in the future. Doug Melvin is a firm believer in NOT making decisions on the fly that impact the team’s long-term future.

So that leaves Ned with two primary responsibilities: Motivate the players and handle the day to day tactical chores.

Regarding the latter item, I think most readers here have noticed that the Brewers starters have imploded (ERA over 6.50 since the All-STar break) with a juicy helping hand from the bullpen. Since July 1st the pitching staff has evolved from mediocre to bad to poor to disaster to Chernobyl. Folks can ruminate if they want but trust me in that the manager had a WEE bit to do with this fiasco.

Failure one.

NOW we get to the item of today. As background, folks may remember that a few weeks back when the losing was really starting to gain some momentum Ned Yost decided to stage a fight with his charges. I write “stage” because Ned admitted as much the next day in the papers as he appeared to boast of his motivational ploy. That did not go over well in most quarters of the clubhouse. Amazingly enough the modern player doesn’t respond well to being manipulated.

Furthermore, some here may have noticed that Chris Capuano has stunk since mid-May. Capuano is now 0-a lifetime (actually 0-10) over his last sixteen starts and on Friday lost again in relief. His ERA over the past three months is almost 7. SEVEN. Despite his struggles Capuano stayed in the rotation while receiving constant encouragement from his manager. MEANWHILE, a certain African-American second baseman was hitting less than his weight over the same time period. Said second baseman had suffered a wrist injury in the latter part of 2006 and by all accounts was still feeling the affects. After about six weeks of a .`150ish average Rickie Weeks was sent down to Triple A.

While Capuano stayed in the rotation. While Jeff Suppan, who also stinks, stayed in the rotation. While Derrick Turnbow, who has also stunk it up for about a month, kept getting pats on the back from his manager.

Now, sending Weeks down was reasonable. But look at it from a a younger team member’s or fellow African-American teammate’s perspective. You got several guys over HERE staying. And YOUR guy GOES. Why?

And NOW, Yost goes after the emotional centerpiece of the team. Bill Hall has done everything but give Doug Melvin’s wife his KIDNEY. The guy played second, third, short and now centerfield. He has hit and hit and hit some more. Bill Hall was the team MVP in 2006. He spends an inordinate amount of time in the community doing charitable works. He has two somewhat tough games while the rest of the team is downright putrid and the manager has the unmitigated GALL to say this for all the public to see?!!

ARE YOU F*CKING KIDDING ME??!!! BILL HALL?? BILL HALL IS THE PROBLEM??!!

No, Ned. YOU are the godd*mn problem. You have TWO F*CKING JOBS TO DO. And you FAIL at BOTH. You methodically, and I commend you on your tremendous focus, tear apart the pitching staff. Then, once that task has been completed, you ALIENATE the most popular guy on the club while SIMULTANEOUSLY creating racial tension.

Machiavelli would have been proud.

I know Doug Melvin doens’t like to do anything in the “heat of the moment”. He also likes to let his manager, manage. But this isn’t managing. This is some grotesque performance art display of how not to handle people. This is the anti-Carnegie. Tony Robbins gone bad.

This post is already way too long. But having observed this waste of skin for FAR TOO LONG I can restrain myself no further. Ned Yost needs to be relieved of his command.

Harveys Wallbangers : Ned Yost :: Ahab : Whale

From hell's heart I stab at thee!

Is he in fact creating racial tension?

Doc:

Lots of stuff swirling around the clubhouse. What was reported in the papers is that the younger team members were VERY unhappy about Weeks getting sent down. Hall was benched earlier this year for allegedly poor play and then again this past weekend. Yost has not been that explicit in his explanation with any other player on the roster. Everyone else is "tired" or "getting into bad habits".

He may not be Alvin Dark in his approach. But there is enough sportswriter "code" being bandied about in print, radio stints, blogs, etc. coupled with my observations/discussions with others that no matter what Yost's GOALS its the PERCEPTION that is KILLING him.

Note that several years ago he almost lost the team by clearly playing favorites with Wes Helms. This led to a pretty serious altercation with Podsednik. Now, Scott is something of a jerk so folks could dismiss that set-to as being a POSITIVE for Yost. But now folks are looking hard at this guy's actions.

As a Cubs fan, I think Yost is the best thing for the Brewers.

As a human being, I think Yost is terrible for the Brewers. I believed the Brewers were playing over their heads to start the season, but I never expected a drop like this. The Brewers should still have a big lead given how much the Cubs sucked to start the year and much more recently, and how much the Cardinals have sucked in general.

All:

Note that it isn't just one thing. It's EVERYTHING.

I didn't even mention that during his tenure Yost's teams fall off a cliff in the second half of the season. It's SOP. The personnel has changed completely with few exceptions yet the team continues to nosedive after the All-Star break. The only constant has been the manager.

Before the All-Star Break

217-228 .487

After break

139-193 .419

Take out the horrendous 2004 finish of 22-53 and you get a second half of 117-140 or .455. And that's being generous.

What has Brewer fans steaming is that with the BETTER talent of 2006 and 2007 you have a cumulative first half of 93-85 and cumulative second half of 47-67. And folks can rummage around for all the excuses they want (injuries, bad luck, "true" level of talent) the fact is that with the SOLE exception of 2005 Milwaukee has regressed in the latter part of the season under Yost.

He has created an environment conducive to the young players getting adjusted to the major leagues. But even that seems to be an organizational focus in that it is stated well before the season that certain guys WILL play and WHERE they will play. JJ Hardy knew that when he was hitting .150 he was going to stay at shortstop. Rickie Weeks knew when he made 20 errors in two months he was staying at second base. Yost had his orders.

But Melvin doesn't order how he manages his rotation/bullpen.

Maybe Doug should...............

harvey,

anytime you want to talk about phil garner and the astros and his insisting on turning everyone he can into a utility/platoon guy

please do

- just a question - in your opinion, do most all managers play favorites? i mean, prefer a guy who is a worse player over someone who is better?

HW, I'm not familiar with the Brew Crew coaching staff. Is there a likely replacement manager on the staff who wouldn't be too closely tied to Yost? Or perhaps a manager in the minor league system?

Given Melvin's desire not to react in the heat of the moment, I would expect that Yost would only be fired if Melvin had a manager candidate that he really liked and knew was available.

I wonder if Davey Johnson would take the job. (Actually, his name almost always comes to mind when a team needs a change in managers.)

- just a question - in your opinion, do most all managers play favorites? i mean, prefer a guy who is a worse player over someone who is better?

You didn't ask my opinion, but I think Piniella's done a good job of not doing that, which has been a hugely refreshing change from the Baker era. He hasn't hesitated to bench players who I guarantee would've been starting under His Dustiness. He does not seem very prone at all to irrational emotional attachments to particular players.

bbc:

The "favorite" issue does exist but for good managers it's a bench guy who provides a certain comfort. Like Rafael Belliard for Bobby Cox. Or So Taguchi for LaRussa. Yost had Helms playing third base AND batting fourth (I kid you not) when the guy had a slugging percentage of around .350. That's crazy.

VG:

The manager of the Nashville Sounds is Frank Kremblas. The Sounds wrapped up their third straight PCL division. They are 83-53 this season despite losing Braun and Gallardo early in the season. The younger players on the Brewer squad surely know Frank and all had success playing under him.

He certainly has a better track record of success than Yost who hasn't won a godd*mn thing other than scorn and ridicule.

Harveys Wallbangers : Ned Yost :: Ahab : Whale

Ned Yost has no face!

I think Davey Johnson might be the perfect guy to try to right the Brewers ASAP. It sounds like they need someone who commands respect and, like Jim Leyland, will let the guys play with no BS. As crazy as it sounds, Bob Brenly might be good in the short term for this team as well. I know, I know...but I'm serious! The Brewers collapse has been a disappointment this year for sure.

Could the Brewers take a break from their collapse and win the series from the Cubs? TIA.

in your opinion, do most all managers play favorites?

Most of them do, in my opinion. Normally, it's with "established" players who retain jobs, while "younger" players have to "earn" them.

-- MWE

Mike:

Tell me if I am off the mark here. I would appreciate your feedback.

Regards,

Harvey

Could the Brewers take a break from their collapse and win the series from the Cubs? TIA.

Well, "TBD" is starting for the Brewers in the last 2 games, which in all likelihood means the Cubs are staring at 2 losses; the Cubs never seem able to handle garbage pitchers, or those they haven't seen before. (Apparently, though, Sheets may be one of those TBDs.)

Apropos of nothing--what the hell is up with the Cubs' total year in/year out inability to hit Doug Davis? I swear he must have an ERA of about 1.5 against them since '03.

Bob Brenly might be good in the short term for this team as well. I know, I know...but I'm serious!

Putting aside whether he's the right man for the job, I have to wonder if the Cubs would be able to stop him if the Brewers were interested in Brenly. I imagine that he has an out clause in his contract that he can trigger to become a manager, but it would certainly create a lot of interesting questions in this case. For example, what if the Brewers hired him today, right before the teams played this series? Brenly probably knows a lot about the Cubs that he hasn't mentioned during broadcasts.

I am comforted somewhat by the Cubs' first two opponents on this homestand (Brewers and Astros) being godawful road teams, but I'm afraid the Cubs might take that as a challenge. And not in the good way.

Interesting points, VG. That would certainly add some intriguing twists to what could be a bizarre race to begin with.

That said, I can't see the Brewers actually firing Yost in the heat of the pennant race. Call me crazy. I think the Brewers would have to fall several games out for that to even be seriously considered, and at that point, they'd likely be effectively out of the race anyway.

A better choice: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elwy_Yost

retro highlights an omission in my original post. I should have mentioned I don't expect the Brewers to fire Ned NOW. Doug Melvin just doesn't work that way. Milwaukee is stuck with Yost for the duration.

But if he is still calling the shots come 2008 I seriously have to wonder what performance metrics are in place in the Brewer front office.............................

Is that just cause Piniella is a new manager, and thus hasn't developed loyalties to guys who "got it done" for him in the past?

Although Leyland had already developed inexplicable favourites/non-favourites at this point in his first season in DET...

Brenly probably knows a lot about the Cubs that he hasn't mentioned during broadcasts.

On the other hand, he's Bob Brenly so I doubt he'd use it to much effect. I see Brenly as being good for the Brewers simply as a morale booster.

shooty:

No, no, no, no, NO!!! Yost has patted enough *ss in Milwaukee to be brought up on s*xual assault charges. Enough with this faux positive bullsh*t.

The players neither need a rosy optimist nor a tyrant. My impression of the team is that they just want someone they can TRUST to make the right call at the right time and to QUIT messing with their heads.

I think the Triple A manager for the Nashville Sounds should the team's first choice. No re-treads. Yuck........

How much of the blame goes to Mike Maddux for the pitching problems? He's often said to be one of the best pitching coaches in baseball.

HW:

I don't think you're off the mark. I hesitate to attribute racial motivations to actions that can normally be explained by other reasons, mostly because of the heightened scrutiny that management teams are under when it comes to even the potential of discrimination (not just in baseball). But the situations with Weeks and Hall have been handled *much* differently than other similar situations with struggling players have been, and the higher expectations on the team don't IMO explain it.

-- MWE

Mike:

I should have highlighted that it isn't a stretch for a player in the clubhouse to look over at player A and see one thing, look over at Player B and see something else, and then after minimal thought decide the change in treatment is due to race. I have NO IDEA Yost's motivations. But right now his clubhouse is breaking into splinters because of his inability to communicate what in the F*CK is going on.

Capuano has been absolute putrid for 3 1/2 months. And it took 3 such months for someone to do anything about it. Weeks didn't get three months.

Again, I didn't really disagree with Weeks getting optioned. But I am trying to convey a PLAYER'S perspective.

And the blunt fact is that Prince, Bill Hall, JJ, and Corey were some kind of p*ssed about Weeks getting sent down. I should have also mentioned the "generational" aspect as well. That's how bad the clubhouse is right now. Got more factions than the Iraq government................

So if I'm Dave Dombrowski, do I consider trying to pick up Bill Hall to play SS next season and move Guillen to first?

chemdoc:

Not an outrageous suggestion. I think even now the Brewer front office treats Billy as an afterthought. It wouldn't surprise me in the least that if a team offered some perceived quality pitching that Doug Melvin would be willing to deal Hall.

Deep down I get the sense that Bill was never part of the plan. And therefore doesn't merit the same level of consideration. As bizarre as that sounds, Doug Melvin is a guy with a definitie PLAN. Deviations or alterations to that plan just are not handled well. If he has a glitch that's it..........

Is that just cause Piniella is a new manager, and thus hasn't developed loyalties to guys who "got it done" for him in the past?

Maybe, but he's always had a reputation for riding the hot hand (a corollary of which is, he doesn't stick with what doesn't work). And I haven't seen him actively lobbying for crappy ex Mariners or ex-DRays to come play for him, a la Dusty.

Actually, I guess Don Baylor was more vocal about bringing in "his guys" than Dusty was; perhaps watching 2 years of Neifi warped my perceptions. I recall Baylor making noise about wanting Vinny Castilla, Joe Girardi, and various other crappy ex-Rockies.

No, no, no, no, NO!!! Yost has patted enough *ss in Milwaukee to be brought up on s*xual assault charges. Enough with this faux positive bullsh*t.

Of course, I defer to your kowledge of the Brewers. My recommendation of Brenly has to do with his standing as a manager that has won--which may impress the players though it doesn't impress snarky bastards like us--and as a manager with a reputation as a guy who lets the guys trot out there and play without too much interference. Obviously, Davey Johnson would be better than Brenly, but for whatever reason, no one wants to hire the guy. And yeah, you're stuck with Yost through the rest of the year. We're just chewing the fat here, obviously. (Larry Dierker would be better than either, but I won't even get into that.)

Also, and this is completely a non sequitur, but where are all of Ken Macha's friends in the media these days? Or was he only useful as an excuse to bash Billy Beane?

Capuano has been absolute putrid for 3 1/2 months. And it took 3 such months for someone to do anything about it. Weeks didn't get three months.

Indeed. Given how good Capuano was a couple years ago, it amazed me to read just how bad he's been of late. The Brewers lost *16* straight Capuano starts. Sixteen! It's one thing for a pitcher to go 16 starts without being credited with a win (though that's pretty bad as well), but to have the TEAM never win even once? That's half a season's worth of starts! I don't know if I've ever seen that before.

If the Brewers want to trade Hall, Billy Beane should definitely try for him.

Part of my nightmare scenario is that the Brewers "commit" to Ned and in so doing trade Bill stating that his "defense just never came together". I write that Billy goes because he is a well-respected member of the clubhouse. Though Hall has NEVER come out publicly against Yost he has been quoted as to being puzzled as to why HE is getting benched for a poor stretch while other players don't get the same treatment.

I WISH I was making this stuff up.

Yost is hurting this team on so many different levels it makes my head ache..................

If the Brewers want to trade Hall, Billy Beane should definitely try for him.

Teams will be lining up for Bill Hall. I'd love to have the guy on the A's, but I don't think we have the prospects/players to outbid all the other teams that would want him. Toronto especially.

I'd say something negative about Yost here, but am afraid that'll put me in Harveys doghouse again.

Though Hall has NEVER come out publicly against Yost he has been quoted as to being puzzled as to why HE is getting benched for a poor stretch while other players don't get the same treatment.

On the other hand, Corey Hart actually got to start on a day that Gabe Gross got a start. That's a positive, right?

#35

The Brewers appear to need pitchers. Beane appeared willing to trade Blanton at the deadline. Now, I'm not suggesting Blanton for Hall straight up, but maybe some reasonable package that doesn't screw either team can be worked out. Sacking Yost might fix their rotation.

Even though Gaudin's ERA is still pretty shiny, he's been struggling lately, so I don't believe he will get much interest.

North Side:

Ned is grasping at straws at this point. Gross got hot for a spell so all of a sudden he's starting in either center or right depending upon who is on the mound. If it was my team it would be Gross/Hall/Hart left to right. Jenkins .501 slugging percentage is nice but this team has plenty of power. It needs guys on base which is what Hart and Gross provide if playing every day. And both have some pop. Hall is the better all-around player than Jenkins.

The mix and match ends right now. If the organization is deluded into thinking this is a "pennant race" then play your best guys. There have been sufficient off days so that your best players can be on the field for the remaining 32 games.

Rickie Weeks is hitting .317 in August with a .462 on-base percentage. It's a handful of at bats, but considering it's been a LIFETIME since Rickie had any positive news a Brewer fan has to hang its hat on SOMETHING.

Infield of Fielder/Weeks/Hardy/Braun. Outfield of Gross/Hall/Hart. Miller catches 65% of the time.

You get OBP from Fielder/Weeks/Gross/Hart. You get power from everyone except Weeks/Hall/Miller. And the first two could easily slug .500 the rest of the way. Weeks/Hart/Braun can run. Defense? Well, let's talk about the offense.

It ain't that hard.....................

If the "staged" fight wasn't enough to seal Yost's fate at the end of the season, I'll be very surprised and disappointed. I don't believe it was staged, either. I think Yost is an out of control jerk who finally got called on it by his players that day, and that he thought the best way to handle it after was to try and make it look like he's some master psychologist who was doing what was needed to motivate, like any good manager would. He seemed so proud of himself. Bottom line is that he is not qualified to do this job.

Can someone link me to a BBTF or MSM article on Yost's "staged" fight? I vaguely remember something about a dugout spat, but that's about it.

Rosenthal: Astros fire GM, manager

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7160596

Rosenthal: Astros fire GM, manager

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7160596

In keeping with the Brewers theme...Cecil Cooper!

Rosenthal: Astros fire GM, manager

whoa, that was unexpected ... well, not really, but still, whoa.

I would like to see them put Biggio in as interim manager. C'mon, 'Stros, bring back the player/manager! You have nothing to lose but more games!

Eso:

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/gamecenter/recap/MLB_20070802_NYM@MIL

The next day Yost seemed to be boasting about how he was trying to get someone to react.

Rosenthal: Astros fire GM, manager

This of course was done to further upset Harveys.

The Tim Purpura era was short indeed.

levski:

If you have a point please make it. I am not clever enough to decipher your scribblings to know their meaning.

Thank you.

Harvey

The Tim Purpura era was short indeed.

Unbelievable. As if it were Purpura who decided to do things like play the rotting corpse of Craig Biggio every day.

I think he's saying that you would be jealous of Houston because they cleaning house while the Brewers are going to Pat Gillick for the rest of this season.

If you have a point please make it. I am not clever enough to decipher your scribblings to know their meaning.

Harveys: I meant that, not only are the Brewers becoming worse by hanging onto Yost, but the Astros now may be improving by firing Garner... and making Garner a candidate to replace Yost.

levski:

Understood on all counts. And yes, that would be the nightmare scenario for me as I mention above.

I just want someone sensible calling the shots. Is that so much to ask?

I just want someone sensible calling the shots. Is that so much to ask?

Did you update your resume?

Harvey -

Thanks for the link.

The Brewers lost *16* straight Capuano starts. Sixteen! It's one thing for a pitcher to go 16 starts without being credited with a win (though that's pretty bad as well), but to have the TEAM never win even once? That's half a season's worth of starts! I don't know if I've ever seen that before.

Looking at bbref's PI, it appears that Capuano's current stretch is indeed the longest streak (since 1957) for games started in which the team failed to record a win.

Weeks:

You are a good Brewer fan. What say you on my tirade?

I was hoping battlekow or NTN might stop by to provide some additional perspective. Or Polish. Nothing like peer review.....

Thought Weeks was a Cub fan (though a cheesehead).

Kevin Hench considers Yost one of the "Manager of the Year" award candidates. No love for Garner

Hench on Manager of the Year

Looking at bbref's PI, it appears that Capuano's current stretch is indeed the longest streak (since 1957) for games started in which the team failed to record a win.

Amazing, especially given the strength of the Brewer offense; you'd figure they'd have bailed him out at least once or twice. What's Capuano's ERA during that stretch?

BTW, how'd you find that on bbref, Weeks? I love that site, but I get the feeling I've only scratched the surface of how I could use it.

retro:

6.70........

retro:

6.70........

Eh? *feeling breeze of jets rushing over my head*

Hench is clearly not in possession of such things as facts. The Brewers are a .500 team. They finished just under .500 last year. It's silly to consider that worthy of MOY.

Could someone please write and link to an article on Fred Haney so we could get the full Wallbanger Trifecta.

And since this is a Brewers thread & I'm, well, a whore, here's the 10 Greatest Cubs-Brewers games of all-time. All 17 of them.

Eh? *feeling breeze of jets rushing over my head*

Oh--Capuano's ERA. Heh. Thought you were responding to my post about Weeks being a Cub fan. I'm especially dense this afternoon. Then again, I was without power for 63 hours over the weekend, so I'm still a little disoriented...

Hate to disappoint you, HW, but I'm a Cub fan. However, as a Milwaukeean, I'm a general supporter of the team (earlier in the season, I'd hoped for the Brewers to take the wild card).

From what I've observed of the team, your analysis is spot-on (as usual).

Chris:

Don't you dare. Sweet J*sus but that might just push me over the edge.

<Insert Redd Foxx as Fred Sanford soundtrack>

Weeks:

Nah, you are much too rationale to be a Cubs fan. Gotta be a mistake.....................

Nah, you are much too rationale to be a Cubs fan. Gotta be a mistake.....................

I resemble this remark.

BTW, how'd you find that on bbref, Weeks? I love that site, but I get the feeling I've only scratched the surface of how I could use it.

Go to the bbref PI page and select the Pitching Streak Finder link. Then just select Starter as the Role and then "Team Ls" in the stat section.

The full list of results isn't available to non-subscribers, so you'll only be able to see the top result, and then more that are further down the list (11 in a row).

Nah, you are much too rationale to be a Cubs fan. Gotta be a mistake.....................

Yeah, I tell my Dad every time I see him that making me a Cubs fan was the biggest mistake of his life.

Poor parenting, that's what that is.

I just realized the Reds:

1) are only 6 games back.
2) Have better hotter than blazes lately,
3) Have a lot of games left against the Brewers, Cubs, & Cards.

When folks talk about NL MVP they better keep in mind Adam Dunn. The lad has 9 homers and 24 rbis in August and 12 homers and 33 rbi since the break..........

I just realized the Reds:

1) are only 6 games back.
2) Have better hotter than blazes lately,
3) Have a lot of games left against the Brewers, Cubs, & Cards.

That the Cubs and Brewers haven't put away the Cards and Reds is a disgrace.

retro:

EXACTLY.

People think I am by nature negative. Not so. I couldn't have lasted in my chosen profession (farming) if I was a tower of glower. But I do like to think I am honest about a situation. And what has transpired in Milwaukee this season is UNACCEPTABLE.

The use of the word unacceptable is an inside joke in the Wallbanger family. We were at a Packer game and some younger folks nearby were beginning to splutter profanities as the team struggled. A few folks nearby explained that cursing, at least in that section, is strongly discouraged. So the next time a poor play happened one of the youngsters stood up, waved his fist and yelled, "That is UNACCEPTABLE!"

Everyone cheered in approval.

So in keeping with that spirit I will work to restrain my vulgarities and state simply, this is UNACCEPTABLE.........

I just realized the Reds:

1) are only 6 games back.
2) Have better hotter than blazes lately,
3) Have a lot of games left against the Brewers, Cubs, & Cards.


If the Reds end up making the playoffs, I think the National League should just disband. Seriously. Bring back the Federal League if you have to.

you can't make adam dunn the mvp - he walks and strikes out.

horrors

and his own team's announcers and media hate him for that and they will talk him down to everyone else

As if it were Purpura who decided to do things like play the rotting corpse of Craig Biggio every day.

The problem isn't playing Biggio. It is playing him on the road.

At home, where he has the Crawford Boxes to aim at:

.290/.320/.467/.787

They should just leave him in Houston when they go on the road, where he is:

.198/.238/.294/.532

srul

correct

however the owner has basically told biggio he can play when he wants and where he wants so what can i say

Sorry I'm late to the party. Didn't have a chance to check BTF yesterday.

While I sympathize with much of Harveys' rampage, I am kind of stuck about what I would do with the pitching if I were in Yost's seat. Yes, Capuano sucks. But Suppan stinks. Vargas is godawful. Bush has turned back into the disaster he was in Toronto. Gallardo has fallen off a cliff. Ben Sheets is getting blisters from diddling his wife or something and is sitting around sipping mai tais and collecting that fat paycheck while the playoffs (and a .500 record) go up in smoke. Turnbow periodically (okay, more and more frequently) forgets how to throw in the general direction of home plate. What can possibly done to fix this---call up Ben Hendrickson? Good god, no. I suggested in another thread that they could try calling up Dickey, who seems to be doing okay starting at AAA after an ugly history, but beyond that I'm not seeing many options that wouldn't be totally overmatched and providing uglier results even than Suppan and Capuano, and in the process wrecking their development. It'd be doing something just for the sake of doing something, which I'm not confident is a good approach.

Now, part of Harveys' thesis seems to be that this pitching derailment was caused by Yost. I can see how leaving Gallardo in to be utterly slaughtered by the Rockies probably shattered his confidence (the most glaring instance of mismanagement by Yost that's coming to mind---in a Dusty Baker class, that), but it's not clear to me what he has done with the rest of them to make them all forget how to throw a ball, all at once. What has Maddux been up to?

Considering Rickie Weeks is a defensive liability, he has to hit; if he can't hit, he shouldn't be on the team. Period. If Ryan Braun's average dropped below .200, I'd expect him to be sent down too. I'd be much happier seeing Hall at 2nd, Hart in CF and a mix and match approach to the fringes of the outfield (benching Jenkins whenever possible).

Polish:

Ahhhh, now we get to a real discussion. Excellent.

My contention has been that Yost created the POTENTIAL for this situation in Spring Training when he laid out his "master plan". Starter goes six followed by Wise (7th inning), Turnbow (8th inning), and Cordero to close. He CONDITIONED his starters to go six innings from the very outset of the season. And he managed as such. Yost created an environment of acceptance of the starters finishing their contribution at six innings or 100 pitches. This should have been branded as unacceptable early on with veterans like Suppan and Vargas. If Vargas couldn't expand on his contribution swap him out with Villanueva who early in the season was still healthy and pitching well. Gallardo could have been inserted much sooner for say a Dave Bush whose stuff really seems to be better suited for relief anyway. And with his history as a starter he could have been your swingman in the bullpen versus a younger Villanueva who by now we understand didn't have the requisite conditioning to hold up to that type of usage pattern. Bush is older, his arm is stronger, and he is in great shape. Dave Bush would have handled the chore with alacrity.

So now the rotation would have been Sheets, Gallardo, Villanueva, Capuano, Suppan.

Based on early season returns Gallardo and Villanueva would have produced better results with a tad more innings meaning less stress for the bullpen.

When Capuano leaves for the DL maybe a better focussed Vargas works harder at attacking the strike zone.

Upon Capuano's return if Vargas is pitching well then send one of the kids to the bullpen to rest until something else happens.

Sheets injury then reinsert whomever was sent to the bullpen and call up Parra.

If somebody in the starting rotation continues to flail around then give Dickey from Nashville a chance. I know the Sounds are in the playoff hunt but the big club takes precedence.

Yost hasn't ATTACKED the pitching problems. He had a rigid plan with the anchor point of Sheets eating up innings. When that plan failed he looked on like a d*mn cow chewing its cud while a semi slammed into the barn and blew up the farm.

Yost should be PROACTIVE. Instead he and the organization are REACTIVE. They should have sent Rickie down EARLY on the pretense of letting his wrist get some rest instead of having it look like a punishment for not producing. Kids need to be handled more delicately than the vets. Yost has it all backwards. He coddles and caters to the veterans who haven't WON A D*MN THING.

As for Maddux, that's a legit question for which I have no answer. It's baffling.....................

I'll grant you this one for sure:

Yost hasn't ATTACKED the pitching problems. He had a rigid plan with the anchor point of Sheets eating up innings. When that plan failed he looked on like a d*mn cow chewing its cud while a semi slammed into the barn and blew up the farm.

Anyone relying on Ben Sheets to do anything other than go on the DL is a fool.

I like the idea of Bush as swingman; I seem to recall he occasionally did that for Toronto too. Villanueva vs Bush vs Vargas---was kind of a tossup really, and I seem to remember Yost early on saying something about possibly using Vargas as a swing man; but when he started racking up higher than expected strikeout totals he ended up a fixture in the rotation.

Whether Gallardo should have started the year with the club, I dunno. Remember, he only had 13 starts each in A and AA under his belt...since it looked as if there was some depth in the rotation early on, I'm not too upset about them starting him off in the minors---and I'm guessing Melvin probably dictated that anyway.

But I'm still not seeing where Yost's plan led to Suppan and Capuano losing the ability to pitch. How does turning it over the bullpen after six make them forget how to throw the ball?

Ned Yost should get back in the game.

The end is near.

This is a classic case of unexpected early-season success creating unreasonable expectations and late-season disappointment. How many people at the beginning of the year picked the Brewers to be better than .500? That's the talent they have, and that's where the talent has taken them. Thanks to NTNgod's irrationally exuberant and obnoxious daily "every team with an 8.5-game lead at THIS point in the season has made the playoffs" updates, we all started to believe it. If they had been cruising along at .500 all year, a lot of people would be excited to find they're only 2.5 games out right now. ("Hey, a couple things break right and they might have a chance!") Instead, because the hot start makes this appear to be a collapse, Harvey finally gets his wish and will see Ned go away. You see, it all comes down to sample size. Any .500 team can go 24-10 at some point in a given season. I mean, come on. We knew Claudio Vargas and Greg Aquino suck; we can't be surprised that Jeff Suppan collapsed; we had no reasonable expectation that Turnbow would be even *this* good; and we knew F-Chord wasn't *that* good. Ryan Braun has far exceeded anyone's reasonable expectation, and he too will soon come back to earth. And sorry, Harvey, but Bill Hall is *not* as good as he seemed last year, and, not his fault, but he's also learning a new position. What did we expect?

I don't know what the hell Harvey's talking about with Weeks. On the one hand, they want to avoid the "perception" of racism. On the other hand, Harvey and everyone else knows damn well that it's not racial but purely about performance. If you have to tiptoe around certain players because they might think that your personnel moves are racially motivated when they obviously are not, then the problem lies with the players. So what if one of them happens to actually be one of your good players. Shut the #### up and hit, and we'll manage the club. If Rickie Weeks had one season in which he contributed anything near what Chris Capuano produced in any one of the last three seasons, they might have a point. As it is, Rickie Weeks's spot on the major league roster right now is owed to 6 weeks of hitting in AAA in 2005. In his 4-year professional career, one 6-week stretch at Nashville in 2005 is the only indication that the number 2 pick of the 2003 draft wasn't wasted. Maybe Ned Yost is a bad manager, but that doesn't mean that this team also doesn't have enough talent.

HSF:

Long time no chat.

See, this is the stuff that I don't understand. There are fans who accept perpetual mediocrity. When do you imagine Milwaukee is "worthy" of finishing above .500. 2008? 2009? 2012? Seriously. What timeline is acceptable?

As for Hall, I have explained my stance toward Bill's season ad infinitum in other threads. I believed early on with many others that the new position would impact his offense. And recently Bill testified to that very fact. What bothers me is Ned repeatedly castigating Bill in the press while not criticizing players just as deserving.

I have explained multiple times how the Weeks situation is potentially being perceived when compared to the Capuano/Turnbow/Suppan situations. Before, that is, Capuano got kicked to the bullpen.

Do you not think that in this day and age that the African-American athlete may see a "white" manager seeming to coddle his non-performing white pitchers and think, "What the heck?" These are not deep thinkers here.

I have stated MULTIPLE times that Weeks should have been sent down MONTHS AGO. Barring that just put him on the DL.

And as is all too common, you perceive me as some half-witted fan who expects his team to win 100 games every season. That by having ANY expectations I am unreasonable.

This division STINKS. The Brewers have a talent collection that should win 85 games given the usual ebb and flow of individual seasons. That is a 10 game improvement over last season which is well within the range of improvement.

I am disheartened that having ANY expectations is deemed too onerous..................

I'm no Brewers fan, but I figured them for around 85 wins this year and battling the Cubs for the division. Melvin must have, too, which is why he went after Suppan. It looks bleak now, but they could still do it.

Bring back the Federal League if you have to.

Hell, the Chicago Whales' home park is still around! (And a rekindling of the Whales/Pittsburgh Stogies rivalry would rule.)

HSF:

Two things. The NTN criticism is unwarranted as he stopped posting in that fashion MONTHS AGO.

Second, my issues with the team revolve not in the RESULTS but in the manner in which those results are ACHIEVED. I am a firm believer in the maxim in that if you do things properly the results will come. The Brewers continue to putter because there are so many GAPS in how they play the game.

And that is a reflection of their manager.

The NTN criticism is unwarranted as he stopped posting in that fashion MONTHS AGO.

Well, yeah. :-) Anyway, I was mostly joshing about that. I'll take back the "obnoxious" part, though. I know he was just having fun.

In case you care, I don't think you're a half-wit, and I don't mean to come off that way. I think you're completely witted, maybe even 110%-witted. But you certainly don't need my validation. The sample size thing was a joke (although, like most good jokes, it's also true) meant for you to laugh with. The last thing I want is to be put in the Joe Sheehan bucket. I'm not a know-it-all; in fact, the point I'm trying to make is that I'm a know-nothing. I don't know what the hell's going on, but I'm not sure anyone else does, either. I'm just as disappointed as - no - MORE disappointed than you. It's tough being a fanboy AND a saberist with the whole head-heart conflict. Anyway, I thought I was showing a way to feel GOOD about the season, with the team playing roughly as expected and only 2.5 games out - and now with Sheets coming back.

I agree that Ned's lost the team, though, and I think from the beginning that's been his downfall - his lack of command. I think he might be one of those guys, maybe like DePodesta, who's great in a second or third role, but for whatever reason lacks the skills to be a number one.

HSF:

You may not have noticed, but based on your feedback I gave Yost every kudo possible during the season. I recognized his firm stance toward platooning Mench/Jenkins despite the grousing. I gave him credit for pushing Shouse beyond just being a LOOGY. I was very effusive in his approach of putting Corey in the leadoff role. Those were all suprises from Ned, and I worked mightily to recognize his steps forward.

But ultimately I was drawn back to my original suspicions. That he can create a positive atmosphere for a bad team or a young team finding itself but is incapable of being a leader of a talented squad looking to push forward. That his lack of skills handling a pitching staff (which are mind-boggling in their ineptitude) would not only generate sub-par performance but in turn cause the team to question his overall judgement and command of the situation. Toss in his overt habit of playing favorites and unwillingness to move forcefully until a situation has become a crisis and the guy was the perfect storm of managerial incompetence in 2007.

Yost is a lesser version of Phil Garner. He can say all the right stuff and SOUND like he has a clue. But in the dugout with the action happening he just can't move the pieces correctly.

Phil gives great interview and with a veteran team his rah-rah stuff can get results for a year or two. But eventually his lack of everything else bites him.

Ned is more attuned to being a protective father than cheerleader. So he can help the young guys get their sea legs. But beyond that he's a mess............