Jeez, it must be the offseason. Lot of stuff wrong here, as one may expect from the Columbia Tribune. I can't decide which fish to shoot - that Mac, that bum, couldn't hit the best pitching staff ever, or that Rose didn't cheat the game.

Ha.

Ha ha.

Ha

*drools*

Career stats:

McGwire v. Maddux -- .316/.435/.737 (in 23 PAs)
McGwire v. Smoltz -- .167/.286/.167 (in 7 PAs)
McGwire v. Glavine -- .182/.375/.455 (in 16 PAs)

McGwire had 3 homers lifetime in 46 PAs against those three pitchers, or 39 homers per 600 PAs. That's not quite as embarrassing as the author makes it out to be.

And 8 walks in 46 PAs suggests that the Atlanta trio's method of pitching to him was to avoid him. That's a pace for over 100 walks in 600 PAs.

McGwire v. Maddux -- .316/.435/.737 (in 23 PAs)

Nice try, but he clearly said Maddox against whom McGwire had not a single hit.

How many hitting coaches or managers in the league right now were good major league hitters?
20% maybe?
How many were better hitters than McGwire?

Not to say that that qualifies McGwire to be a good hitting coach, but the notion that McGwire will fail as a hitting coach because he wasn't a very good hitter seems kind of silly.

McGwire may or may not be a HOF but it isn't because he didn't steal bases.

Stupid

Never a league most valuable player, even when he set a record of 70 home runs in 1998.

This one always bothers me. Let's keep him out of the Hall because MVP voters screwed up!

(To be fair, at the time I thought Sosa should win. On the other hand, I was a 12-year-old Cubs fan.)

Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens? Hold your nose, but both earned the right before the steroid era. Bonds was the modern-day Ty Cobb, hated and feared, before he became a muscle man. Clemens was the best around for years before he allegedly juiced. Put Bonds, Clemens and Rose in together and hold your nose only once.

At least this is a coherent and arguable point.

Sportswriters spend a lot of time being outraged.

And moronic.

In addition to being stupid, the cognitive dissonance on display when these people try to argue that McGwire was not REALLY that great a player is breathtaking, as if he wouldn't have waltzed into the Hall easily with 90%+ without the steroid scandals.

Sportswriters spend a lot of time being outraged.

Ray, you could spot any given sportswriter three hours a day in the outrage department, and you know it. You've spent enough time fulminating on Ichiro and Rice alone to top the entire BBWAA's outrage production for the last ten years. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

...as if he wouldn't have waltzed into the Hall easily with 90%+ without the steroid scandals.

But without his Bondsian peak at age 34-35, he doesn't waltz in

Say, Ichiro. There's an interesting HOF candidate on whom I haven't made up my mind. Anybody have something to say on the matter? Perhaps on whether or not he should get credit for his time in Japan? And, on a related note, whether minor league time should count towards the Hall?

Anybody?

Mr. DiPerna?

McGuire couldn't hold Maddox's jock.

Couldn't Will Clark come up with a better pseudonym than Bill Clark?

If Gill Hodges can’t get in the Hall of Fame, why McGwire?

WTF?

And what's this about McGwire and Maddux et al, lifetime. Did he spend a lifetime in the NL? How did I miss that? And to hold against McGwire the writers' stupidity in not voting him MVP?

Stupid stupid stupid.

Are papers in such bad shape they can't buy a subscription to P-I?

If you're gonna cherry-pick some numbers, at least cherry-pick ones that support your argument:

vs. Kevin Brown: 143/259/204 with 1 HR in 58 PA
vs. Clemens: 085/189/234 with 2HR in 53 PA
vs. Appier: 152/263/273 with 1 HR in 38 PA
vs. Stieb: 143/314/179 with 0 HR in 35 PA

and perhaps most amazingly, given what he did against lefties most of his career:

vs. Denny Neagle: 167/259/167 with 0 HR in 27 PA

C'mon, the guy couldn't even hit Denny Neagle, no way he belongs in the HoF. Or as anybody's batting coach!

There are so many logical flaws in these stupid arguments, I don't know why we bother. First, what #3 and #4 said. But what really makes these arguments reprehensible is their disingenuousness and bias.

"He must be able to win the game without the bat — with his speed, his glove, his arm, his ability to lead."
######## like Bill Clark would never say this about a non-juicer who likewise wasn't able to accomplish those feats, such as Tony Gwynn.

And as the HITTING coach, those other things are pretty much irrelevant, you dumb ####.

Leave out the drugs, the arrogance, the refusal to be truthful, and McGwire simply is not a Hall of Famer.
Ok, fine, you're limiting your analysis to his on-field performance.

If Pete Rose isn’t there, why McGwire? Pete never cheated the game. Flawed? Yes. Cheater? Never.
Wait, I thought you were leaving that out? And I guess breaking rules = not cheating, and not breaking rules = cheating.

And until McGwire levels with the baseball world and acknowledges his baseball past, let him pay to get into Busch Stadium.
Why is an admission of cheating (if applicable) a prerequisite to being a hitting coach? How would that make him more qualified?

Why, oh why, return to an issue we need not resurrect? Mark McGwire is soiled linen. We don’t need to cuss and discuss his record again.
Yes, Tony La Russa should consider the inconvenience to the media and public when hiring his coaches.

McGwire’s arrogance in denial has not wavered.
Did he really laugh about it? If not, his behavior might exhibit plenty of things, but arrogance isn't one of them.

The same Mark McGwire refused in 2005 to answer questions at a congressional hearing regarding use of steroids in Major League Baseball, saying he was only interested in the future, not the past.
This is my favorite. You'd have to be a lunatic (e.g., Palmeiro) to have answered questions at that hearing under the circumstances, whether you juiced or not.

I give Clark credit for acknowledging that andro wasn't against the rules at the time, which many of his peers either are either too stupid to learn or too big of frauds to acknowledge.

I only read TFA to see if this publication was from Columbia, MO or Columbia's J-School (it's the former). The first comment

Beretta92 says... Bill you're obviously a complete buffoon.

made me think of, "Jane, you ignorant slut!"

I wouldn't call Bill Clark a sportswiter. He has a much deeper background than most of us ink-stained wretches.
As someone who welcomes McGwire back, I admit I don't necessarily agree with Clark's opinion, but this man has a very intriquring background.

I'm not sure how to post links but here is a link to a SABR article on Clark from a few years ago.

http://www.sabr.org/sabr.cfm?a=cms,c,1494,34,0

I wouldn't call Bill Clark a sportswiter. He has a much deeper background than most of us ink-stained wretches.
As someone who welcomes McGwire back, I admit I don't necessarily agree with Clark's opinion, but this man has a very intriquring background.

I'm not sure how to post links but here is a link to a SABR article on Clark from a few years ago.

http://www.sabr.org/sabr.cfm?a=cms,c,1494,34,0

You're right, ballfan, that was a very interesting interview with Clark, and here's here's a live link.

BTW to post a link to an article, do this:

1. copy the article's URL

2. click on the <a> tab above the message box

3. paste the URL into the blank field that pops up and hit "OK"

4. then give the link a title and hit "OK" again

Not to say that that qualifies McGwire to be a good hitting coach, but the notion that McGwire will fail as a hitting coach because he wasn't a very good hitter seems kind of silly.

Silly? It's certifiable.

What an immensely stupid article.

What an immensely stupid article.

On many different levels. It's not even worth rebutting.

"He must be able to win the game without the bat — with his speed, his glove, his arm, his ability to lead."
######## like Bill Clark would never say this about a non-juicer who likewise wasn't able to accomplish those feats, such as Tony Gwynn.

Umm, Tony Gwynn excelled at all of those things, though the legs went when he got older, which brought down his glove and speed later in his career. He is exactly who Bill Clark had in mind. It doesn't make his point any less ridiculous, but your example is equally nonsensical. Maybe Harmon Killebrew or Ralph Kiner is closer to what you had in mind?

Not to say that that qualifies McGwire to be a good hitting coach, but the notion that McGwire will fail as a hitting coach because he wasn't a very good hitter seems kind of silly.

There's an excellent anecdote in Moneyball where Scott Hatteberg claims Jim Rice was a terrible batting coach precisely because he was a good hitter.

There's an excellent anecdote in Moneyball where Scott Hatteberg claims Jim Rice was a terrible batting coach precisely because he was a good hitter.

That might be Hatteberg just being generous. It could be Rice is just a shitty coach.

Umm, Tony Gwynn excelled at all of those things, though the legs went when he got older, which brought down his glove and speed later in his career. He is exactly who Bill Clark had in mind. It doesn't make his point any less ridiculous, but your example is equally nonsensical. Maybe Harmon Killebrew or Ralph Kiner is closer to what you had in mind?

You're right. I was trying to come up with a recent HOFer for whom being a great hitter (without any suspicion of juicing) was his primary attribute, and who is universally well-liked. I forgot that Gwynn was at one time very athletic.

I clicked on the link to see if it is the same Bill Clark that was profiled by Jack Etkin in one of the Bill James books.

There's an excellent anecdote in Moneyball where Scott Hatteberg claims Jim Rice was a terrible batting coach precisely because he was a good hitter.

It may be that Hatteberg found it uncomfortable to hit with s#*t in his jock due to TEH FEAR.

It may be that Hatteberg found it uncomfortable to hit with s#*t in his jock due to TEH FEAR.

They he shouldn't have worn his jock backwards...

They he shouldn't have worn his jock backwards...

Obviously, TEH FEAR was even more fearsome than we realized.