Why make the commercial at all if you’re going to insult the intelligence of baseball fans?

Because we love Big Brother?

I'm not here to talk about the (recent) past.

It would have been more honest if they would have mentioned the suspected 'roiders and included an asterisk after their names, even if they didn't explain the reason for the asterisk.

MLBtv ran a similar commercial leading up to Manny Ramirez hitting his 500th. IIRC, they had clips of Mike Schmidt, Mel Ott, and Frank Robinson. Is the commissioner's office deceitfully excluding Eddie Murray from the record books? Or do they want to keep the commercial under 15 minutes?

You be the judge.

Oddly enough, Manny ended up hitting #500 in Baltimore, in the same ballpark where Murray hit his 500th back in '96.

And MLB is in the business of selling nostalgia and "remember when" moments. Few people feel nostalgic for Barry Bonds or Sammy Sosa, in part because those #600 events were fairly recent.

I think the writer's point would seem more credible if he could spell "weenie".

IMO, 600 is quite a bit different than 500.

Bonds and Sosa’s numbers haven’t been stricken from the record.

No, they haven't been. But where is it written that they have to be celebrated to the same degree as the numbers of players about whom there's no suspicion of steroid use? During the height of the Bonds furor, when the prospect of striking numbers from the record book was being debated most heatedly, his defenders magnanimously offered that while erasing history was impossible and asterisking it an unmanageable mess, fans and historians were free to keep the debate alive by continuing to remind themselves and others that the achievements of certain players were likely not obtained honestly. Now that an example of such history-with-commentary has cropped up (at least implicitly), it's meet with howls of outraged indignation by the PED amen corner? Please.

Bonds and Sosa? who are these guys?

I don't have any problem in being selective about who is ahead in homers.

There are just too many names to choose from.

“MLB.TV…keep whitewashing history.”

In the picture they show of Babe Ruth, it does look like he has a Hitler mustache.

In the picture they show of Babe Ruth, it does look like he has a Hitler mustache.

Bonds furor

Hmmm ....

The funny thing is that there are far more fans and writers "staying tuned" for Bonds In Exile than there are "staying tuned" for Griffey and #600. Nice job, MLB. Your masterful plan is really paying off.

Bonds and Sosa’s numbers haven’t been stricken from the record.

No, they haven't been. But where is it written that they have to be celebrated to the same degree as the numbers of players about whom there's no suspicion of steroid use? During the height of the Bonds furor, when the prospect of striking numbers from the record book was being debated most heatedly, his defenders magnanimously offered that while erasing history was impossible and asterisking it an unmanageable mess, fans and historians were free to keep the debate alive by continuing to remind themselves and others that the achievements of certain players were likely not obtained honestly. Now that an example of such history-with-commentary has cropped up (at least implicitly), it's meet with howls of outraged indignation by the PED amen corner? Please.

Several things to be said about this. First, there's absolutely no evidence that Sosa juiced, beyond conjecture that's based on extrapolation and a corked bat. That's not exactly like having your trainer rot in jail for several years rather than testify under oath about whether or not you used steroids. Lumping Sosa with Bonds is neither fair nor accurate.

That said, leaving either Sosa or Bonds out of the commericial really does strike me as the sort of airbrushing of history associated with certain unmentionable comrades.

This isn't a separate organzation like the HOF, where character issues surrounding steroids are entirely legitmate. This is MLB itself, where neither Sosa nor Bonds has failed a steroids test.

This isn't the asterisk ball, where you get the asterisk but you also get the ball itself and Bonds's name along with it. That ball spurs and enlivens debate; it doesn't pretend that the debate doesn't exist, or that home run #756 itself never happened.

This is in a completely different category. And I hate to say it, but
there's no way to avoid the obvious analogy.

This is in a completely different category. And I hate to say it, but there's no way to avoid the obvious analogy.

I don't understand your reference. Steve Garvey finished his career with nowhere near 600 HR.

IMO, 600 is quite a bit different than 500.

How different? 100.

Get yourself some glasses, Andere. That's Steve Garvey's father---or didn't you see the documentary?

The funny thing is that there are far more fans and writers "staying tuned" for Bonds In Exile than there are "staying tuned" for Griffey and #600. Nice job, MLB. Your masterful plan is really paying off.

Total rubbish. The only people I know who wake up every morning wondering if/hoping that Bonds has been signed are a handful of hardcore sycophants here on this site, and a few writers who get paid to stir up trouble.

The overwhelming majority of normal baseball fans that I know have moved on, and are just enjyoing the game. And I can't wait to see "The Kid" hit #600.

Maybe they made this commercial 3 years ago, when Griffey would have hit 600 before his body broke down due to steroid use.

It's easy. Bonds and Sosa are white. Aaron, Mays and Ruth are black, like Griffey Jr.

With 5 of the 6 members of the 600 club black, is there going to be a call to establish a program to teach young white children how to hit homers?

With 5 of the 6 members of the 600 club black, is there going to be a call to establish a program to teach young white children how to hit homers?

And let's not forget, Ruth had those well-known "###### lips." I support BLB's white person HR initiative.

Whitey Hits ItFar Program. WHIP.

#21: And the thread comes to a screeching halt.

#21: And the thread comes to a screeching halt.

Too soon?

More like too late.

No, they haven't been. But where is it written that they have to be celebrated to the same degree as the numbers of players about whom there's no suspicion of steroid use? During the height of the Bonds furor, when the prospect of striking numbers from the record book was being debated most heatedly, his defenders magnanimously offered that while erasing history was impossible and asterisking it an unmanageable mess, fans and historians were free to keep the debate alive by continuing to remind themselves and others that the achievements of certain players were likely not obtained honestly. Now that an example of such history-with-commentary has cropped up (at least implicitly), it's meet with howls of outraged indignation by the PED amen corner? Please.

I think the steroids hysteria is silly and therefore the commercial is dumb, but do I meet the commercial with "howls of outraged indignation"? Hardly. I meet it with a yawn. The commercial is just retarded. If you view it as some sort of a victory, knock yourself out.

By the way, are people seriously claiming that Bonds wouldn't have gotten to 600 were it not for the steroids he's supposed to have taken?

Steroids were responsible for 160+ home runs? Really?

I could possibly see 160 if roids both increased his seasonal output and allowed him to play longer. Similar to how Babe Ruth hit 1048 when playing in the modern era.

Barry's Lazy Boy is really Bill Jenkinson?

and a few writers who get paid to stir up trouble.

Well, I do stir up trouble for free too y'know ;-).

I do agree though--I can't wait for No. 600, steroids or not only five other guys in baseball history have done that. Before the "silly-ball" era 12 guys had hit 500 HR. 600 is most assuredly not the new 500.

Best Regards

John

Barry's Lazy Boy is really Bill Jenkinson?

Fark. The great mystery comes to an end.

And let's not forget, Ruth had those well-known "###### lips." I support BLB's white person HR initiative.

#21: And the thread comes to a screeching halt.

Ruth had Hitler lips?

The players, the owners, the managers, the trainers, the umpires, the reporters, the fans – everyone who’s maintained any association with baseball over the last two decades bears some responsibility for the steroids culture. Everyone.

Wow....and all this time I thought that I didn't do anything wrong. Bummer.

I could possibly see 160 if roids both increased his seasonal output and allowed him to play longer. Similar to how Babe Ruth hit 1048 when playing in the modern era.

Keep in mind that without his increased performance level (i.e., his change in approach), he also doesn't get walked as much, particularly intentional walks. Even assuming a boost from steroids, that blunts the effect on raw HR totals somewhat.

And MLB is in the business of selling nostalgia and "remember when" moments.

Right, and you can add "creating" to that job list as well. This reminds me of the "Call Your Shot" promotion they keep plugging, with David Ortiz et al. apparently attempting to recreate a famous "remember when" moment in baseball history that never happened.

kevin!!!!!..............DRAW!!!

Right here, Ray.

I figured as much, Kevin. You're not going to make the 6:00 BTF News with that statement. :-)

In fact, and correct me if I'm wrong on this because I certainly could be, but isn't 600 exactly 100 more than 500? That sounds about right, doesn't it?

I thought so as well, but my hand held calculator says that if you take 500, add 100 to reach 600, then subtract 500, you get "99.9999999e"...

That ad does blow. The music is befitting of a funeral.

Bottom Line... this is a good thing.

Bivens, what are you talking about? Draw?

I wouldn't worry until he starts mentioning quartering.

Best Regards

John

“MLB.TV…keep whitewashing history.”

Know who else wasn't in the commercial? Trotsky!

kevin, you didn't see the picture of the meet-up posted in the lounge?

kevin, you didn't see the picture of the meet-up posted in the lounge?

Dumb question: How do you access the "lounge"? I may be the only person on this site who doesn't know the answer to that, but there are only so many hours in the day.

Or better yet, can someone just either e-mail me the picture or post it here?

I concur. I/d love to see the pic if you could link it here. The lounge frightens and confuses me.

I am similarly in the dark with respect to the lounge.

I tried to navigate its treacherous waters today in order to find the picture after reading the above. I was really out of my depth in there and had to abort mission and evacuate.

I will report, by the way, that Andy won something like 8 of the 9 nine-ball games that were played between me, him, and Kevin (and a couple with Hanging Chad Ogea). So I can confirm that Andy has indeed learned a thing or two from his years spent in pool halls.

Once I realized we were in danger of losing every game to him, I plotted to steal his glaucoma drops, but, thankfully, that ignominious act became unnecessary when he stumbled and gave up a game.

Anyway, it was a good baseball game at Camden Yards and it was nice to meet everyone. Even Kevin :-)

I know how to get to the lounge, but whereabouts in there is the meet up pic?

Posting a link here would be cool as well if anyone has time.

thanks...

The funny thing is that there are far more fans and writers "staying tuned" for Bonds In Exile than there are "staying tuned" for Griffey and #600. Nice job, MLB. Your masterful plan is really paying off.

Total rubbish. The only people I know who wake up every morning wondering if/hoping that Bonds has been signed are a handful of hardcore sycophants here on this site, and a few writers who get paid to stir up trouble. The overwhelming majority of normal baseball fans that I know have moved on, and are just enjyoing the game. And I can't wait to see "The Kid" hit #600.

If you honestly think there's been more coverage and discussion of Griffey's ascent to 600 than there's been coverage and discussion of Where's Barry?/No Barry, you must have invented an "ignore" feature for real life.

Repeating a point, Bonds could have been taking his 350 at-bats as the DH in Seattle or Texas, or even in LF for San Francisco-- with even fewer at-bats if the annual "exploding knee" prediction finally came true-- and Bonds' status would have been a blip. Instead, he's Banquo's ghost. It's another tactical bungle from Kenesaw Molehill Selig & co.

The lounge frightens and confuses me.

Awesome. I am still bummed about Phil Hartman.

I will report, by the way, that Andy won something like 8 of the 9 nine-ball games that were played between me, him, and Kevin (and a couple with Hanging Chad Ogea). So I can confirm that Andy has indeed learned a thing or two from his years spent in pool halls.

Once I realized we were in danger of losing every game to him, I plotted to steal his glaucoma drops, but, thankfully, that ignominious act became unnecessary when he stumbled and gave up a game.

Yeah, and now that I think of it, since under the terms of the bet you now have to vote for Obama, I wish I'd added a stipulation that the loser had to move to a swing state in time to register for November. I hadn't realized you lived in New York.

----------------------

Kenesaw Molehill Selig

Love it! Never saw that one before.

While it is hard to generalize, I don't think Bonds is a big issue for casual fans. A guy commenting on the Tango/James dust-up at The Book blog said the attitude he encounters among casual fans is "I thought Barry Bonds was already in jail." The guy who posted this was a Mariners fan, and he said that in his exp hardcore Mariners fans are divided over whether Seattle should consider signing Bonds to DH.

Casual fans in SD that I deal with--maybe 20 people--have not mentioned Bonds at all. 1 or 2 have brought up Griffey and 600, but that is not a big story, either.

I do agree with Gonafalon that the MEDIA is more focused on Bonds than on Griffey, but I also agree with Joey that only a certain segment of hardcore fans is concerned about Bonds not playing.

I do agree with Gonafalon that the MEDIA is more focused on Bonds than on Griffey, but I also agree with Joey that only a certain segment of hardcore fans is concerned about Bonds not playing.

Yeah, about 1% is steamed that he's being "blackballed," and about 1% is gloating about it. But for most people, they think of Chazz Palminteri's great line in A Bronx Tale: "Nobody cares." If nobody signs him by the end of July, he's going to be largely forgotten until his first HOF vote.

Here you go, guys.

I hope the link works.

Yeah, and now that I think of it, since under the terms of the bet you now have to vote for Obama, I wish I'd added a stipulation that the loser had to move to a swing state in time to register for November. I hadn't realized you lived in New York.

Andy, you're going to think I'm welching, and you'll have every right to think so based on the exchange I'm going to quote below. But I will say with 100% honesty that I didn't realize those were the stakes until this very moment.

After reading your above comment I went back to review our discussion of pool in the Pete Rose thread. I see this exchange between you and me:

but there's an Edgar's Billiards Cafe at 1 East Pratt Street # 14. I just found it on google and it had 2 pretty good reviews. From the map it looks like it's between Harborplace and the park and an easy walk to both.

We can play it cheap--- race to 5 and the loser has to vote for whomever the winner names.

Sounds fine to me if you guys are game. Kevin and I are supposed to meet up around 5:30 or so, but I can get in a little earlier.

The meaning of the underlined portion totally went over my head when I read it the first time. I couldn't figure out what you were talking about with "race to the 5" and so I tuned out the entire sentence. When I replied "Sounds fine to me" I really was just talking about the plan to meet at Edgar's.

I realize none of this sounds believable in the slightest. Nevertheless, I wish to plead ignorance and appeal to your sense of fair play with this bet. Ask yourself why I would agree to a bet that I knew I would be sure to lose...

The meaning of the underlined portion totally went over my head when I read it the first time.

I believe you.

I believe you.

Hilarious.

I hope the link works.

So who is who?

Andy did say something during the game about me having to vote for Obama "based on the bet" as I lined up to shoot; I replied "Not" and meant to ask him what in the world he was talking about, but in attempting the shot I got distracted.

Here you go, guys.

I hope the link works

It did:

I have never seen any of these guys in person--saw a pic of kev once. So

kevin-green button down shirt?
andy-blue polo shirt?
David--head behind Andy, Orioles hat, orange shirt?
Retro-guy with goatee whose head is visible over kev's shoulder?
Ray-glasses, black shirt visible over Andy's shoulder?
Guy in Orioles jersey?
Guy in Nats' hat?

kevin-green button down shirt?
andy-blue polo shirt?
David--head behind Andy, Orioles hat, orange shirt?
Retro-guy with goatee whose head is vislble over kev's shoulder?
Ray-glasses, black shirt visible over Andy's shoulder?

All of the above are correct except Retro. He's the guy in the back behind me.

The guy with the goatee whose head is visible over Kevin's right shoulder is Hanging Chad Ogea.

The guy in the front with the red shirt is Larry Mahnken.

Thanks, Ray. Who is the dude in the O's jersey?

AROM.

The meaning of the underlined portion totally went over my head when I read it the first time. I couldn't figure out what you were talking about with "race to the 5" and so I tuned out the entire sentence. When I replied "Sounds fine to me" I really was just talking about the plan to meet at Edgar's.

I realize none of this sounds believable in the slightest. Nevertheless, I wish to plead ignorance and appeal to your sense of fair play with this bet. Ask yourself why I would agree to a bet that I knew I would be sure to lose...

Well, what else would a "race to 5" mean in the context of a pool room? Perhaps a race to 5 beers, I guess.

Of course it's also possible that you thought I was bluffing. And as you found out, I really do have a bad case of glaucoma, even if it doesn't hurt my pool game.

But that's OK, Ray, you're excused---as long as you don't move to a swing state. We'll call it a Mulligan a la Clinton.

robin,

You got em all right as far as you went. Larry's in the Nats' hat. I forgot who was the one in the Orioles' shirt, and also the guy in the white shirt behind Ray and David. They were sitting several seats away, we only got introduced once, and the crowd was very loud.

EDIT: Oops. I thought Retro and Chad were the same person.

But that's OK, Ray, you're excused---as long as you don't move to a swing state. We'll call it a Mulligan a la Clinton.

Thanks. I promise not to move to a swing state between now and November.

Robin, you didn't do badly guessing, I must say.

Robin, you didn't do badly guessing, I must say

.

Andy described who was sitting where in an email (I sent him a quick line asking how the ballgame was; this was after he talked smack about the pool game) so I already had info. I know Andy's age, your age when you mentioned it in a political thread (34, IIRC) and I figured David would have to be in O's gear. I knew Retro, HCO and Mahnken are pretty young dudes from other threads, and had seen a shot of kev before from another meetup and know his age. Andy said it was good times, and (sadly or happily--YMMV) no one talked politics.

So, at a primer meetup do people call each other by the screen names or their given names (I realize that for many of you, it's the same). Just curious. Thanks for the link.

Oh, and the Braves hall of famers are having a rough night.

I would call kevin, andy, ray and david by their screen names.

Man, I'm pissed I missed. I'm gonna have to treat some of you guys to a game in August or September to make up for my absence.

EDIT: Oops. I thought Retro and Chad were the same person.

A common mistake. And understandable; after all, until Saturday, the two of us had never been spotted in the same place at the same time.

Anyway--nice meeting the east coast folk on Saturday; seeing Ramirez's 500th was icing on the cake. My only disappointment lay in sleepover girl's failure to show.

And the game I saw at Citizens Bank Park the next day was just as exciting, with the Phils rallying from 4 down.

Man, I'm pissed I missed. I'm gonna have to treat some of you guys to a game in August or September to make up for my absence.

Saturday Sept. 23rd will work. Yanks at O's, 7:05. Ten dollar ring game at Edgar's beginning at 4:00.

I knew Retro, HCO and Mahnken are pretty young dudes from other threads

I appreciate the compliment, as I'm guessing Mahnken and Ogea are both a fair piece younger than I am. Hell, I think Ray probably is, too.

EDIT: Duh--didn't read far enough. If Ray's 34, I was correct.

I indeed am 34. And on that note, I wish to inform everyone that I will be turning 35 in August and, thus, will be eligible to hold the Office of President on that date. If you're unsatisfied with your choices in the current election, let me know.

Thanks for sharing the pic. Also for the descriptive guide to who's who.

I replied "Not" and meant to ask him what in the world he was talking about, but in attempting the shot I got distracted.

Well, if you are really contacting us from the first Bush administration, you shouldn't worry too much about affecting the current election, unless you step on a butterfly or something.

I'm 31, so I guess I'm young. I don't always feel young, though.

And another thing: I would bet that I would come in second to Andy in any 9 ball match with that crowd.

Listen, gramps, all of you over 30 are old. Old! I'm 24, and that's young.

But, uh, if you happen to ask me in 2014, 30 is upgraded to "young" and 40 to downgraded to "old" (No change at 50 which remains "ancient" and 60 which "older than dirt").

But, uh, if you happen to ask me in 2014, 30 is upgraded to "young" and 40 to downgraded to "old" (No change at 50 which remains "ancient" and 60 which [is] "older than dirt" ).

That reminds me of one of my favoritest songs back when I was in my 20's. I always did need something to aspire to.

Man, I'm pissed I missed. I'm gonna have to treat some of you guys to a game in August or September to make up for my absence.

You could just send cash.