Mark Bagley is one of my five favorite comic book artists from my days of being a big comics fan (1996-2002). In no particular order:

Mark Bagley
Chris Bachalo
Adam Kubert
Carlos Pacheco
Steve Skroce

I never got into comic books, but this is really cool.

I'm not particularly surprised about Bonds joining the Rays, myself.

#1 -

Jack Kirby
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everybody else

Us hate beauty. Us love ugliness. Is crime to make anything perfect on Bizarro World.

Shock wins for first to state the obvious! ;)

Bizarro Upton lives in the backwards Bizarro world. Up is down. Down is up. He says "hello" when he leaves, "goodbye" when he arrives. He's black, and being a (devil) ray, he lives underwater.

I guess I have a dirtier mind, but I am thinking-man it looks like Upton is fisting Jeter and thrusting him into the air.

Also, there's no roof on the Tropicana Dome, and somebody is attempting to market "Sleet."

Bud Selig IS Mr. Mxyzptlk!

somebody is attempting to market "Sleet."

Heh... that brings back fond memories of Love and Death. "Sleet! My favorite!"

Bud Selig IS Mr. Mxyzptlk!

Gilesdub?

Hey, it was worth a shot.

I want to crawl into Curt Swan's coffin and suck the remaining ink out of his fingers.

Kirby was the Babe Ruth of comics artist, it goes without saying, but his decline phase was long & painful, lasting some 2 decades ... sort of comparable to what Babe's might've been if he'd hung on until his late 50s, maybe. Also, he insisted on doing his own writing, which would've been comparable to Babe insisting on, I dunno, being not only a player-manager but doing it from the catcher's position.

Accordingly --

John Severin (look at his just-concluded Bat Lash -- he's as good as he was 55 years ago! It's as if Minnie Minoso came back today & hit .300 with power & speed!)
Russ Heath
Marie Severin
Steve Ditko
Wally Wood
Curt Swan
Kirby
Gene Colan
Joe Kubert
Kurt Schaffenberger, maybe. Or John Romita. Matt Baker? Basil Wolverton? Mac Raboy? Lou Fine?

It also goes without saying that Carmine Infantino was great, but the quality of his work was heavily inker-dependent. Same goes, to a slightly lesser extent, for Gil Kane.

Also -- Bill Elder, RIP

All-overrated -- Neal Adams

The current crop? Bagley is fast, at least (quite an attribute in a field where lazy layabouts like Adam Kubert & Frank Quitely [imagine Steve Trachsel. Now imagine Steve Trachsel embedded in frozen molasses] are allowed to spend months if not years presumably gazing soulfully into mirrors while dawdling over a "workload" that Kirby in his prime could've dispatched with in a weekend ... & no, I'm not exaggerating one jot), but overrated. He's not a patch on Amanda Conner or Cliff Chiang or maybe even Barry Kitson, among others.

I want to crawl into Curt Swan's coffin and suck the remaining ink out of his fingers.

When I posted this item I was wishing I could borrow Repoz's brain for the intro. Mine just doesn't mingle the macabre and the arcane with enough delight to have done this thread justice.

Hey Mongoose! No Will Eisner?

I would also move Kirby up a lot simply based on the insane quantity that he produced. Yeah, not everything was perfect, but it's not going to be when you're churning out a couple thousand pages a year.

In terms of more recent guys, I'd also throw Mignola, Eric Powell and Darwyn Cooke on the lists. All have fantastic, and instantly recognisable, styles.

With all due respect to all of these guys, but when I think of COVER ART, I think of only one man: Alex Ross.


But inside, I agree with most everything else that has been said, especially Kirby.

Eiser's place on the list is hard to decide on, in large part because he was at least as important as a theoretician as he was as an artist. Definitely an inner-circle HOFer, along with everyone else I named & quite a few more besides (that clump of immortals at the 10th spot should definitely include John Buscema, for instance, as well as proably about half of everybody who ever drew for EC, like Ghastly Graham Ingles & Al Williamson & Reed Crandell & Jack Davis & Johnny Craig ... & that's just for starters). Steranko wasn't bad, either, but of course gets penalized for low quantity & presaging (along with, god knows, Adams) the current crop of "rock star" artists baffled by the very concept of a deadline.

I like Darwyn Cooke's work a lot, but I'm told his current style -- which, again, I love -- is a deliberate aping of someone else's ... Tim Sale's, maybe? (My real period of near-expertise is the Silver & Bronze Ages, as my list obviously shows. I laid out of comics for a quarter-century till getting back into them about 4 years ago, to my wallet's painful detriment.) Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I'm not sure how much credit to give him for a "fantastic, and instantly recognisable" style if it's not really, y'know, his.

With all due respect to all of these guys, but when I think of COVER ART, I think of only one man: Alex Ross.

A very nice renderer of statues. Wake me up when he draws, y'know, a comic.

Also, there's no roof on the Tropicana Dome

Well, that's because they appear to be in Yankee Stadium. Which is odd, because Jeter's wearing his road uni. Then again, it also has his name on the back.

But it is Bizarro World, so anything goes, really.

My real period of near-expertise is the Silver & Bronze Ages, as my list obviously shows.

My interests lie more in the Gold and Silver ages - hence my interests in seeing Eisner on the list. I've got almost nothing from the Bronze age.

I laid out of comics for a quarter-century till getting back into them about 4 years ago, to my wallet's painful detriment

If you change quarter century to twenty years, that almost perfectly describes my experience.

With respect to Cooke and Sale, I've gone through stuff by both and, although there are some limited similarities, I can't say that I see anything that would constitute aping. Besides, can it really be aping when it seems to be better than the alledged source?

Not suprisingly, given that he sucessfully ressurected The Spirit, I'm willing to fight like a bastard to get Cooke's name on the list of top-notch recent guys.

Bizarro Upton lives in the backwards Bizarro world. Up is down. Down is up. He says "hello" when he leaves, "goodbye" when he arrives.

Shouldn't he say "bad-bye"?

I would also move Kirby up a lot simply based on the insane quantity that he produced. Yeah, not everything was perfect, but it's not going to be when you're churning out a couple thousand pages a year.

I would no doubt move him up several slots if not for the fact that I was downright traumatized by his butcherings of Captain America & Black Panther after he came back to Marvel in the mid-'70s. (Yeah, I know he co-created the characters, but that didn't give him license to completely ignore the previous several years of continuity & character development. I remember that I wrote Marvel saying as much about Black Panther & got a letter back from Roy Thomas expressing a certain amount of symphathy.)

With all due respect to all of these guys, but when I think of COVER ART, I think of only one man: Alex Ross.



A very nice renderer of statues. Wake me up when he draws, y'know, a comic.

Hey - there was nothing wrong with his work on Kingdom Come and Marvels. Justice, on the other hand, was not a pleasant book to go through.

That being said, I agree that he's more of a "Covers and Merchandise" guy than a comics guy. I'm talking work-wise, of course - his interviews and articles have shown that he really loves comics for the sake of comics.

Not suprisingly, given that he sucessfully ressurected The Spirit, I'm willing to fight like a bastard to get Cooke's name on the list of top-notch recent guys.

And I certainly don't feel like opposing you. His rendering of Wonder Woman alone -- actually, of every woman I've ever seen him draw -- earns him major points in my book.

Speaking of the new Spirit, I wonder who drew the issue that came out today (I skipped going by the comics store till this weekend)? Supposedly, we were getting Mike Ploog, but I think he's done only one issue. Just another typical industry lie these days, sad to say.

I would no doubt move him up several slots if not for the fact that I was downright traumatized by his butcherings of Captain America & Black Panther after he came back to Marvel in the mid-'70s. (Yeah, I know he co-created the characters, but that didn't give him license to completely ignore the previous several years of continuity & character development. I remember that I wrote Marvel saying as much about Black Panther & got a letter back from Roy Thomas expressing a certain amount of symphathy.)

Ah. You're referencing the Captain America and Falcon: The Mad Bomb years. I can't say that I've read any of that, so I really don't have any way to argue with you on that point. I did, however, really enjoy his work on The Eternals from roughly the same period, and his Fourth World stuff which preceeded his return to Marvel.

Incidentally, his choices in that era with Marvel may seem a bit more reasonable if you read Evanier's biography on him. The guy was just a brilliant artist who had an absolutely fantastic record at getting screwed over in his business dealings - for which he does bear some responsibility.

Hey - there was nothing wrong with his work on Kingdom Come and Marvels. Justice, on the other hand, was not a pleasant book to go through.

Don't get me wrong -- Ross is immensely talented. I just don't get the sense of, I dunno, dynamism that I think separates comics from illustration. (Granted, John Severin & Russ Heath are at least as much illustrators as they are comics artists, but they're also John Severin & Russ Heath.)

Speaking of the new Spirit, I wonder who drew the issue that came out today (I skipped going by the comics store till this weekend)? Supposedly, we were getting Mike Ploog, but I think he's done only one issue. Just another typical industry lie these days, sad to say.

Not a clue. I got up to issue 14 and decided that I just didn't like the look and feel of the comic once Cooke dropped it. It just seemed like it had become a matter of stuffing whichever guy in the office who wasn't working on the art, and I don't think I like the writing duo of Aragones and Evanier. The DC site says this month's art is Paul Smith, which is a name that I don't happen to recognize.

All-overrated -- Neal Adams

Close choice between Adams and John Byrne.

I lost touch a good 35 years ago, so my all-time team is slanted very gold and silver. The top ten after Kirby:

Carl Barks
Matt Baker
Steve Ditko
Will Eisner
Creig Flessel
Hal Foster
Carmine Infantino
Joe Maneely
Alex Raymond
Jim Steranko

Sad to say, all of Kirby's '70s stuff leaves me pretty cold. I've decided the fault lies much more with me than with the comics, but it's no less real. As a words guy, I'm probably prejudiced by the fact that the King, incredible idea-man though he was, was pretty much tone-deaf to the English language when it came to dialogue & captions. (I plowed through most of the Evanier book a couple of weekends ago, btw. I assume you're aware that, nice as it is, it's pretty much only a teaser for the real biography that Evanier's been preparing for lo these many decades.)

Ross is immensely talented. I just don't get the sense of, I dunno, dynamism that I think separates comics from illustration.

So I see you've gone through the set of books he did on Superman/Batman/Wonder Woman/Shazam then. Beautifully drawn, and extremely static.

Speaking of Captain Marvel - the original one - Jeff Smith should also be added to the list of current top-tier artists.

Very nice list, ACE. (Were you aware that Flessel is still alive? Amazing. He's got to be close to 100.) I would balk only at Hal Foster & Alex Raymond, simply because they did comic strips, not comic books.

Barks is undoubtedly an all-time great, but for some bizarre reason I just can't deal with funny animals. (Krypto & Streaky do not, of course, count.)

Shouldn't he say "bad-bye"?

No, it's still a good bye.

I lost touch a good 35 years ago, so my all-time team is slanted very gold and silver. The top ten after Kirby:

Carl Barks
Matt Baker
Steve Ditko
Will Eisner
Creig Flessel
Hal Foster
Carmine Infantino
Joe Maneely
Alex Raymond
Jim Steranko

Carl Barks is one of the great quasi-forgotten artists. I mean, the guy defined the Disney comic style for decades, but very little of his stuff is available in any collected format.

Incidentally, they're just beginning to release a full set of everything he ever did for the Mouse. Volume 1 (of 10) comes out in December - all 960 pages of it.

Don Rosa also does the most incredible aping/homage of Barks' style, and his stuff is well worth buying.

I assume you're aware that, nice as it is, it's pretty much only a teaser for the real biography that Evanier's been preparing for lo these many decades.)

I'm well aware, and looking forward to it. Incidentally, there's also a biography on Ditko coming out soon. It should be interesting, as Ditko seems to be/have been a unique personality.

The DC site says this month's art is Paul Smith, which is a name that I don't happen to recognize.

I know Smith drew last month's issue, which may well be the last one I buy new (the idiot things are insanely expensive, of course -- as we all know, a comic should never cost more than a coke, & where I live, at least, coke machines sure as hell don't ask for $2.99 or $3.50). I wouldn't know his art if I saw it, but I do know he's very highly thought of because of his work on one of the hundreds of X-Men titles some time back, as well as a neat little fantasy book a few years ago called Leave It to Chance.

Barks is undoubtedly an all-time great, but for some bizarre reason I just can't deal with funny animals.

It's not Barks, but try picking up a copy of "The Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck". If you can't enjoy that, then you're completely right about your inability to enjoy funny animal comics. On the other side, if you want to read something really painful in that vein, you should try Marv Wolfmans' "Scrooge's Quest".

Ditko seems to be/have been a unique personality.

That may the understatement of the year.

I figured that it might be rude to call him completely insane.

Edit: Removed an accidental evasion of the filter.

Speaking of Captain Marvel - the original one - Jeff Smith should also be added to the list of current top-tier artists.

Very nice artist, yes. Unfortunately, I'm still in a snit over his turning Mary Marvel into a toddler.

Dammit, if I'm gonna pay $5.95 or whatever obscene prize for a slick-paper pamphlet (I realize, of course, that OPEC/DC, not Smith, sets the price), & over the course of 5 or 6 issues at that, I by god want teenage Mary Marvel!

Also, my funny animal near-phobia appears to extend to Bone.

I figured that it might be rude to call him completely insane.

I think we can safely call him eccentic as hell. It's not like he's, oh, Dave Sim. That's completely insane.

Also, my funny animal naer-phobia appears to extend to Bone.

Well, I guess that means you're a horribly flawed individual then.

I can understand your position. There are certain styles which I just can't seem to enjoy, even though I recognize them as being well done.

Well, I guess that means you're a horribly flawed individual then.

A new front-runner for understatement of the year already!

But yeah, it's comparable to how I'm a big (or, rather, was, as I've largely drifted away from the field, though my roomful of books would seem to indicate otherwise) sf fan who nonetheless has no affinity whatsoever for stories set anywhere but earth ... & a recognizable earth of the near-future (or or course the past or present as well). My sense of wonder is ... somewhat hobbled.

(I blame the Republicans. Just because.)

It's not like he's, oh, Dave Sim. That's completely insane.

I just did a quick check, as I had him mixed up with a comic blogger. Your description seems dangerously accurate.

Dave Sim=Darren Daulton. To the nth degree. If Daulton were a virulent misogynist. Who felt compelled to interrupt interviews repeatedly to go pray, as he made sure to announce to all & sundry. And was still playing (after what I gather was some time off devoted to communing with god & dodging the men in the white coats, Sim is putting out an absolutely looney-tunes -- & not in the funny animal sense -- new comic these days).

I normally have no use for SI in paper (and barely the website), but I'm gonna have to run across the street to the newsstand to get a copy of that.

Sad to say, all of Kirby's '70s stuff leaves me pretty cold.

As an auteur, he wasn't much. That jarring habit of homonymic names (Apokolips, Sersi, Darkseid, Kamandi, Makarri, etc.) got old fast. Like you say, his dialog could be pretty stilted.

But there was nobody in his league as a creator of characters or as an artist.

I would balk only at Hal Foster & Alex Raymond, simply because they did comic strips, not comic books.

All right. Substitute Robert Crumb and Shelly Moldoff, then.

Poor Shelly Moldoff. Probably 3 generations of comics fans -- me very much included ... when I first saw you mention him, I automatically thought Sugar & Spike, not Batman -- have been confusing him with Shelly Mayer (who wasn't so bad himself).

All-overrated -- Neal Adams

Close choice between Adams and John Byrne.

Just noticed that. Good call. Though Byrne does get points for having been quite prolific, at least by post-Kirby standards, in direct contrast to Adams. Also, I'm pretty unfamiliar with Byrne's post-'78 work, which I gather is what really made him a legend in his own mind, but when he was just starting out his art on 3rd-tier strips like Doomsday+1, Iron Fist & The Champions was pretty darned fun.

Shelly Moldoff ... Batman

Some beautiful work on Hawkman, too. Kubert seems to be more closely identified with the character, as well as more admired, though.

Dan de Carlo, Jay Scott Pike, and Al Hartley also belong somewhere in this discussion.

No love for George Herriman? Tough crowd, but maybe it's the wrong format.

I have never liked Bagley, although he was one of the first comic book artists whose work I could recognize, once I realized that there were individual comic book artists, with names, and the art wasn't just created by "Marvel Comics". In a way I grew up with his work on Amazing. But I just don't like the art. And that cover looks awful.

Bizarro is one of the many cultural references that illustrates how much impact Seinfeld's had on our culture. It's so pervasive that you almost never hear anyone even use the word "bizarre" anymore. They instead say "That's bizarro."

Oh, and 'Me am best player. Me strike out every time when batting.' etc.

No love for George Herriman? Tough crowd, but maybe it's the wrong format.

Well, if we're talking cartoonists, then we should add the following:

George Herriman - his colour work is some of the best stuff I've seen
Chester A. Gould
Charles Schulz
Milt Caniff
Bill Mauldin
Windsor McKay
EC Segar
Frank King
Bill Watterson
Berke Breathed
Gary Larson

And, of course, Raymond and Foster as mentioned above.

Bizarro is one of the many cultural references that illustrates how much impact Seinfeld's had on our culture. It's so pervasive that you almost never hear anyone even use the word "bizarre" anymore. They instead say "That's bizarro."

I think SeaLab when I hear "Bizarro."

I think SeaLab when I hear "Bizarro."

Sadly enough, even with my interests in comics, I think of the same thing.

In fact, I just emailed my friend "Bizarro, bizarro, I love you, bizarro" today. Weird.

My lord, the "mom's basement" jokes just write themselves, don't they.

It's not Barks, but try picking up a copy of "The Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck". If you can't enjoy that, then you're completely right about your inability to enjoy funny animal comics

Man, anyone that can't enjoy "The Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck" is dead inside. I picked it up at random and absolutely loved it. The Companion is also great.

Can't argue with the quality of artits mentioned but I'll go ahead and mention Alex Toth as one that probably deserves some discussion. Certainly influential although not so much for his comic work but more in character design and style.

Al Hartley also belong somewhere in this discussion.

The oldest Marvel I ever owned, Journey Into Mystery #90, featured Thor as drawn by Hartley. That was ... counterintuitive.

Toth -- yes. Good call.

Jim Aparo, Nick Cardy & George Perez should've been mentioned by now, too, as well as such off-beat guys as Pat Boyette & Tom Sutton.

Also, the ultra-realists, like Gray Morrow & Alden McWilliams.

And all sorts of Bronze Age greats, like Frank Brunner, Val Mayerik, Gene Day, Paul Gulacy, Marshall Rogers. Just tons of 'em.

Plus the great inkers -- Joe Sinnott, Bob McLeod, Klaus Janson, Tom Palmer, Sid Greene, Murphy Anderson, etc etc etc.

Another excellent artist of more recent vintage -- Kevin Maguire. Alan Davis is awfully good, too. And I'd take Adam Hughes over Alex Ross as the best of the current cover artists.

ok, I'm upset, I didn't get credit for this thread... but glad to see it last at least 62 posts

Close choice between Adams and John Byrne.

really Byrne overrated? who in comics does better group shots? I love me some Byrne. I can't imagine a crisis without him.

I have no idea who most of these guys mentioned above are, but when it comes to BASEBALL drawings, you got the great guys who contributed to TSN over the years:

Amadee (Wohlschlaeger)
Willard Mullin
Lou Darvas
Bill Gallo
Karl Hubenthal

Heh... that brings back fond memories of Love and Death. "Sleet! My favorite!"

You must be Don Francisco's sister.

Bizarro is one of the many cultural references that illustrates how much impact Seinfeld's had on our culture.

I'm familiar with Bizarro from reading comic books. I have yet to see an episode of Seinfeld.

Shout out to gef for mentioning Jim Aparo and John Buscema. Aparo has always been my favorite Batman artist, but I was suspecting his style was too pedestrian for the afficianadoes here...

It does warm the cockles of my black little heart to see Todd McFarlane's name no where in this thread. I've never liked his stuff. He took John Romita's adorably hot Mary Jane Watson and turned her into a freakin' whore.

The oldest Marvel I ever owned, Journey Into Mystery #90, featured Thor as drawn by Hartley. That was ... counterintuitive.

A legendary issue, for all the wrong reasons. I kept expecting Patsy Walker to show up.

really Byrne overrated?

Just my $0.02. Other artists I never "got" but of whom others seem to think highly:

Jim Aparo
John Buscema
Nick Cardy
Mort Meskin
Alex Toth

really Byrne overrated? who in comics does better group shots?

George Perez, easily. Who has the added attraction of not having turned into a bitter old curmudgeon.

It does warm the cockles of my black little heart to see Todd McFarlane's name no where in this thread. I've never liked his stuff. He took John Romita's adorably hot Mary Jane Watson and turned her into a freakin' whore.

I had the same reaction to the absence (unless I missed it) of the insufferable Frank Miller.

Heh... that brings back fond memories of Love and Death. "Sleet! My favorite!"

You must be Don Francisco's sister.

It's a greater honor for me.

I do have to say that Frank Miller's work on Daredevil in the '70s is pretty keen. It's just his later career that's the issue.

The only comics I had access to when I was a kid were drawn by Jack Chick.

Needless to say, I loved 'em. Still do, when I can get my hands on them.

Edit: Oops, and Hergé via Children's Digest.

I'm familiar with Bizarro from reading comic books. I have yet to see an episode of Seinfeld.

I'm familiar with it from Seinfeld myself. I think most of my exposure to Superman was from reruns of the '50s TV show. Tights and fights don't really interest me, but I do get into the stuff that Paradox Press put out (The Bogie Man, A History of Violence, and Road to Perdition.) Maus, of course, was great. I even liked the adaptation that someone did of Paul Auster's City of Glass.

Oh, and 'Me am best player. Me strike out every time when batting.' etc.

So maybe there was some wormhole where the Tin Glove Award votes from the Bizarro World got mixed in with our world's Gold Glove votes and that's how Derek Jeter won his first Gold Glove? After the first, you win a couple more by inertia.

"Me Retej Kered. Me worst fielder, me catch everthing to right side."

Even the Bizarros can't explain Rapheal Palmiero's Gold Glove.

As one who lost interest in comic books after the first couple years of American Splendor, seeing this:

"Man, anyone that can't enjoy "The Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck" is dead inside. I picked it up at random and absolutely loved it.

Scrooge McDuck? Even as a little kid, I didn't like that character one bit. Donald was about the only Disney character that I liked. This must be something quite different -- I looked on wiki and saw the Timeline and that did look interesting.

Via rerun, I must've seen, oh, at least 90 percent of the various Seinfeld episodes. Maybe a lot closer to 100 percent. And yet I've never seen the Bizarro episode. *sigh*

(My love for Bizarro goes way back to the "Tales of the Bizarro World" 80-Page Giant*, Superman #202, when I was a kid. I'm pretty sure Tales of the Bizarro World was the first modern TPB I ever bought, about a decade ago, years before I got back into comics.)



*The 80-Page Giants were, of course, the coolest comics ever. There is no room for argument here ... it's simply a statement of fact.

"And I'd take Adam Hughes over Alex Ross as the best of the current cover artists."

Personally, I prefer Dave Johnson (2, 3, 4, 5).

James Jean is nice, too.

[Edit: So is Mike Mignola.]

"Tales of the Bizarro World"

How you guess me am really Bizarro No.1?

Personally, I prefer Dave Johnson (2, 3, 4, 5).

Never heard of him, but that is some fine work.

How you guess me am really Bizarro No.1?

That's the one! I sold my entire collection in the summer of '81 (except, of course, for my Sgt Furys & Not Brand Ecchs , which would've had to be pried out of my cold, dead hands), but when I learned about eBay in the late '90s that comic & a Captain America lot including Steranko's 3 great issues from '69 may well have been my first 2 purchases.

Well, along with a few old Sporting News ABA guides. And quite a few vintage punk records (it's not like the Anemic Boyfriends' "Guys Are Not Proud" 7" was sitting around in stacks in North Little Rock).

"Never heard of him, but that is some fine work."

I'm glad you agree. I mostly just pulled covers from "100 Bullets", but he's done some damn good work other places, too.

Here's his site.

I'm glad you agree. I mostly just pulled covers from "100 Bullets", but he's done some damn good work other places, too.

Here's his site.

Oh, yeah -- nice, nice work. I don't know if I've ever laid eyes on 100 Bullets (I'm not sure my LCS gets it, & for that matter I guess it's a crime comic, which I tend to pay no attention to, since story-wise I've found that they don't really offer anything I can't get out of a novel ... Ms Tree [who of course has been the subject of a novel recently] being a notable exception), but I recognize Johnson as having done the fronts on some of the Boom! titles I own, like Cthulhu Tales & Zombie Tales.

And yes, James Jean is excellent as well.

My stated preference for Adams Hughes probably owes something -- OK, everything -- to his luscious run of Catwoman (now cancelled, of course) covers.

My contributions to this discussion would mirror about 90% of what's been said, but this little nugget hidden in one of gef's posts is making me cross-eyed:

quite an attribute in a field where lazy layabouts like Adam Kubert & Frank Quitely [imagine Steve Trachsel. Now imagine Steve Trachsel embedded in frozen molasses] are allowed to spend months if not years presumably gazing soulfully into mirrors while dawdling over a "workload" that Kirby in his prime could've dispatched with in a weekend

Not in the mood to defend the sloth of the Kubert Bros (Andy's a slowpoke, too), but complaining about Frank Quitely being slow is like complaining about Ryan Howard or Adam Dunn striking out too much -- if you want their best work, you have to let them be who they are. Most guys forced to a monthly grind aren't going to churn out Kirby's FF or, um, Byrne's FF -- they're going to churn out stuff that looks like a cross between 80s Marvel fill-in chaff and 90s Image Lee/feld clones.

100 Bullets may or may not be a crime comic, depending on how you define the term, but I like it anyway, and it's probably worth a look even if you don't love the genre.

From Johnson's work for Boom!, this Cthulhu Tales cover is one of my favorites. If you like CT, you might want to check out Mnemovore, a six-issue Vertigo limited that's pretty nifty (good Mike Huddleston covers, too).

What is Walt Simonson doing these days? I only collected for a couple of years in the late 80's/early 90's, but his work on Thor and X-Factor was great. I guess that's primarily just writing, though, and the guys that are being mentioned here that I recognize are writer/artists.

"Not in the mood to defend the sloth of the Kubert Bros (Andy's a slowpoke, too), but complaining about Frank Quitely being slow is like complaining about Ryan Howard or Adam Dunn striking out too much -- if you want their best work, you have to let them be who they are. Most guys forced to a monthly grind aren't going to churn out Kirby's FF or, um, Byrne's FF -- they're going to churn out stuff that looks like a cross between 80s Marvel fill-in chaff and 90s Image Lee/feld clones."

I sort of agree with this; some guys just aren't cut out for a monthly schedule, but they're still capable of very good work if used in the right role. Steve Bissette is a good example of the principle: he never saw a deadline he wouldn't break, but some of his work on Swamp Thing in the '70s is just classic.

I generally like Quitely, but I do wish he knew how to draw more than one jawline.

"What is Walt Simonson doing these days?"

Last I heard, he was doing some kind of project with Michael Moorcock. Never saw any of it, though.

Simonson wrote the ill-fated Hawkman (as Hawkgirl, though I stress that no genders were changed in the making of this comic) "One Year Later" revamp from maybe a couple of years ago, though it was cancelled after something like 16 issues. (I'm not sure he wrote 'em all, as I gave up about halfway through. The storyline was pretty bad & Howard Chaykin's art wasn't helping.)

More recently, he did the covers for John Severin's Bat Lash miniseries, which I raved out above. Pretty decent, I guess, but I think they suffered badly in comparison with the interiors. Maybe Severin, who I think is 89 years old, just didn't feel like doing the covers.

The storyline was pretty bad & Howard Chaykin's art wasn't helping.

If by pretty bad, you mean dreadful, then I agree. As you note, it didn't help that Chaykin's art was somewhat inconsistent in style, making it almost impossible to follow.

Incidentally, I'm waiting for Bat Lash to come out in trade, as I really like the old western heroes. Is it worth getting?

Most guys forced to a monthly grind aren't going to churn out Kirby's FF or, um, Byrne's FF -- they're going to churn out stuff that looks like a cross between 80s Marvel fill-in chaff and 90s Image Lee/feld clones.

You're right, of course. It's just that I find Quitely & his foot-dragging brethren incredibly slow, so much so that it's a joke for them to be assigned to a putatively monthly or even semimonthly publication. (Which of course actually reflects on the idiocy of Marvel, DC or whomever, rather than the artist.) I mean, would a newspaper hire an extremely able but legendarily slow writer to cover a beat? I would hope not.

It's as if Ryan Howard & Adam Dunn not only struck out a lot, but only got around to playing every 10th game or so.

The Kubert brothers? Their father should beat them both to within an inch of their lazy lives. If Adam is going to blame illness for making him a year late on Action (all the while doing work on other projects & gallivanting around conventions, apparently), he should be genuinely incapacitated, I say.

Incidentally, I'm waiting for Bat Lash to come out in trade, as I really like the old western heroes. Is it worth getting?

Very much so. It's not quite the old Bat Lash, but it's pretty darned good. Alas, sales apparently were abysmal, probably because today's fan base appears to consist largely of imbeciles (present company as demonstrated on this thread very much excepted, of course).

(Note to self: Commence hunger strike until Marvel gives us Essential volumes of the Rawhide Kid, Two-Gun Kid, Western Kid, Outlaw Kid & all the other Kids.

(Fat chance, since they haven't even gotten around to doing so with the Sub-Mariner or Sgt Fury ... DC's Showcase Presents line has already outstripped them there, with the announcement of a forthcoming Blackhawk volume renewing my faint hopes for Tomahawk & even Sea Devils collections.)

If you like CT, you might want to check out Mnemovore, a six-issue Vertigo limited that's pretty nifty (good Mike Huddleston covers, too).

Agreed. Good horror has largely been the province of Dark Horse (& to a lesser extent Image) the last few years, but Mnemovore was a notably creepy exception.

Not in the mood to defend the sloth of the Kubert Bros (Andy's a slowpoke, too), but complaining about Frank Quitely being slow is like complaining about Ryan Howard or Adam Dunn striking out too much -- if you want their best work, you have to let them be who they are. Most guys forced to a monthly grind aren't going to churn out Kirby's FF or, um, Byrne's FF -- they're going to churn out stuff that looks like a cross between 80s Marvel fill-in chaff and 90s Image Lee/feld clones.

You're right about most people not being able to keep up with Kirby, but most artists aren't asked to do that anymore. Rather, it should only be reasonable to expect that someone can keep up with a single monthly book - it's not like they're being asked to simultaneously cover FF, Thor, Captain America, and whatever else needed to be done. After all, given the increasing number of ads, a single book is only about a page a day, and many of them don't even have to worry about their own covers.

Now, if you want to put them on a vanity project and let them release something whenever they feel like it (All Star Batman and Robin) that's fine, but I really can't stand it when an artist turns a monthly book into a bi-monthly one through inability to hit a deadline.

I never was the world's biggest Chaykin fan, but he seems to have fallen off the table over the last few years. Much like Berni(e) Wrightson, who at least apparently can blame his precipitous drop in quality to whatever happened to his drawing hand in, I guess, the '80s ... something to do with an allergic reaction to the metal on the brushes he was using.

I generally like Quitely, but I do wish he knew how to draw more than one jawline.

Yeah, he's very good, but his apparent inability to draw anything but rounded, pretty much edgeless faces is a striking idiosyncrasy. They no more have jawlines than a basketball does.

Just noticed that. Good call. Though Byrne does get points for having been quite prolific, at least by post-Kirby standards, in direct contrast to Adams.

Byrne was prolific by any standards. Kirby was not that prolific, at least in the silver age. I don't know about his 50's work. He only had lengthy runs on Fantastic Four and Thor.

I had the same reaction to the absence (unless I missed it) of the insufferable Frank Miller.

Miller is great, Mr. Supreme Judge of Comic Art. Miller actually made fights between guys in spandex look real. Oh yeah, and he can write a little, too.

quite an attribute in a field where lazy layabouts like Adam Kubert & Frank Quitely [imagine Steve Trachsel. Now imagine Steve Trachsel embedded in frozen molasses] are allowed to spend months if not years presumably gazing soulfully into mirrors while dawdling over a "workload" that Kirby in his prime could've dispatched with in a weekend

Honestly, you bash Byrne for being an old curmudgeon, but come on, that is exactly the type of thing he would say. Kirby was fast, he was Kirby. He came from a different generation, where comics were more product than art. Kirby cranked out the product, with varying quality. Most of what you see in a Kirby comic are the inks, anyway.

I was born years after the silver age came to an end, but I love Kirby and what he brought to the medium. Simply an amazing creative talent. That said, his work is not "pretty". He threw concepts like "correct anatomy" out the window. It was pop art and that's why we love it. But to the objective eye, I have to believe Quitely is by far the more impressive artist.

It's pretty arrogant to assume Quitely could just crank out 22 pages a month, if only he weren't so lazy. People draw at different speeds. Quitely obviously is not comfortable drawing at the rate comic book fans consider adequate, and I for one am thankful he chooses to produce his best work regardless.

ANYWAY, I don't want to get too nasty, so sorry if I came across that way. And here I thought I was the only baseball fan/comic geek around. :)

I never was the world's biggest Chaykin fan, but he seems to have fallen off the table over the last few years. Much like Berni(e) Wrightson, who at least apparently can blame his precipitous drop in quality to whatever happened to his drawing hand in, I guess, the '80s ... something to do with an allergic reaction to the metal on the brushes he was using.

Boy, you aren't kidding on that one. I picked the "The Other" by Niles and Wrightson, and yeesh, art not great at all.

Re: Should Bizarros say "Goodbye" or "bad bye"--
The official answer to this question can be found in the Bizarro sequence from Alan Moore & Curt Swan's wonderful "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" (which essentially was the farewell to the "Silver Age"). If there's anybody here over the age of 35 who followed DC but hasn't read this story, your life is a lie and you don't know it.

Re: Bud Selig as Mr. Mxyzptlk--
No wonder he won't talk about Brian Giles.

Byrne was prolific by any standards. Kirby was not that prolific, at least in the silver age

When he was drawing basically every Marvel title & as often as not doing the layouts for the ones he wasn't, you mean? Sheesh. Define "prolific."

Miller is great, Mr. Supreme Judge of Comic Art. Miller actually made fights between guys in spandex look real. Oh yeah, and he can write a little, too.

A very little. Unless you think writing the same Sin City story over & over again for years is "writing." More like cutting-&-pasting, really.

It's pretty arrogant to assume Quitely could just crank out 22 pages a month, if only he weren't so lazy. People draw at different speeds. Quitely obviously is not comfortable drawing at the rate comic book fans consider adequate, and I for one am thankful he chooses to produce his best work regardless.

As noted above, I actually blame the companies for this, rather than Quitely. Still & all, if he can't draw comics with anything approaching regularity, maybe he should ... ummm ... do something else? Which actually he's doing anyway (so I guess my position is moot) -- All-Star Superman is no more a regularly published title than I am Stan Lee.