I wonder if Cox-2 inhibitors like Vioxx and Celebrex have the same effect. A few years ago, after Vioxx was taken off the market, Roger Clemens was b!tching and moaning about not being able to take Vioxx any longer. Am guessing Clemens was loading on ibuprofen and acetaminophen as well--as were/are basically all other baseball players/athletes.

There's never been an aspirin like it... EVER!@11!!!!

Yes because 60-78 year old men and women will have the same muscle building results as professional athletes in their prime. Congressional hearings on Advil!!!!!

Nolan Ryan's secret is out.

Yes because 60-78 year old men and women will have the same muscle building results as professional athletes in their prime. Congressional hearings on Advil!!!!!

Agreed. I think generalizing from a population of 36 elderly men and women to a population of elite athletes would be a mistake. I imagine a lot of players pop OTC pain relievers like candy anyway, so even if there were effects, they would probably be negligible.

Maybe they lifted more because the pain killing pills killed pain and allowed them to work out more due to less pain?

#3 beat me to it.

Seriously, I farking hope the original paper did not try to draw this idiotic conclusion, and that it's just Consumer Affairs being stupid.

From the article "All subjects participated in three months of weight training, 15-20 minute sessions conducted in the Human Performance Laboratory three times per week. The researchers knew from their own and other studies that training at this intensity and for this time period would significantly increase muscle mass and strength."

Yeah, high level elite athletes train 3 times a week for 15-20 minute sessions. *Rolls eyes*. These "researchers" should do some actual real world research. Go research just how often an elite weightlifter, gymnast, sprinter, thrower trains, football player, baseball player, and on and on trains. They should do some actual real world research and maybe try the training program that an elite athlete uses for a week. They probably would tear multiple muscles, tendons and ligaments.

I've been surprised with all the talk of "greenies," hGH, steroids and even this article, to see that creatine does not get get discussed much in connection to performance enhancement. My guess is that it is being used by guys, but why such little talk of it? From my experience with supplementing creatine and weight lifting (~3 months), I noticed a distinct decrease in soreness during/after workouts and an increase in stamina during workouts, things that would fit in perfectly for Baseball players.

"My guess is that it is being used by guys, but why such little talk of it?"

Because chicks dig the long ball.

Most people don't really care about performance enhancing substances. They just like to pretend that they do.

I tried to find the original article using pubmed and google scholar but was not successful, probably because they haven't incorporated it into their databases. I did see the 2002 article finding that muscle protein synthesis was repressed by acetaminophen and ibuprofen, which was done with much younger subjects (~25). It does not make a lot of sense to change age groups like that--it's an obvious explanation for the apparently conflicting results.

I've been surprised with all the talk of "greenies," hGH, steroids and even this article, to see that creatine does not get get discussed much in connection to performance enhancement. My guess is that it is being used by guys, but why such little talk of it? From my experience with supplementing creatine and weight lifting (~3 months), I noticed a distinct decrease in soreness during/after workouts and an increase in stamina during workouts, things that would fit in perfectly for Baseball players.

A few years ago, there was talk. There were some, including medical professionals, who tried to create hysteria about the safety of creatine, despite study after study after study showing no adverse effects from creatine consumption. Unfortunately for those who tried to spread hysteria about creatine, the mass of evidence is just too much.

Not only that, it is present in ALL meats. It's actually possible to get enough creatine, without supplementation, if you consume a lot of certain meats, beef is one of them. Just try banning it.

Also, every serious athlete in probably every sport uses creatine. It's very cheap and widely available. There is not much of a competitive advantage to using creatine.

Maybe they lifted more because the pain killing pills killed pain and allowed them to work out more due to less pain?

Ding. Ding. Ding. What do we have for Mr. Mauer? A plate full of "you are exactly right", for $100 Bob.

Weightlifters use pain medication to overcome muscle soreness and make it easier to work out more often. Hmm, they also use steroids to make it easier to work out more often. And apparently, Creatine.

What must we do to force these athletes to accept mother natures mandated recovery periods? Were greek athletes forced to wait three days between boulder pushing, or did the gold medalists find some magical bark that enabled them to push boulders every other day?

Weightlifters use pain medication to overcome muscle soreness and make it easier to work out more often. Hmm, they also use steroids to make it easier to work out more often. And apparently, Creatine.

They also use lots of protein. Massage. Saunas. Ice. Vitamins. Lots of good food. Various herbal supplements. Etc.

Maybe they lifted more because the pain killing pills killed pain and allowed them to work out more due to less pain?

That was my immediate thought as well.

It's just one data point, but mark me down as a negative in this experiment.

Rose MacGillicutty in 2A testified before the Legion Hall Athletic Committee that she injected George Mitchell's granny in the ass in 2004 with a cocktail of osteopure, mucinex, ensure, St. John's Wort and Ginko-Biloba. They served her with a twenty-five game suspension from Legion Hall athletics including the sack race and her club is suing to reclaim her performance bonuses. She's looking for a new agent.

Maybe they lifted more because the pain killing pills killed pain and allowed them to work out more due to less pain?

That was my immediate thought as well.

I actually don't think a well controlled study would allow people to "work out more". That would kind of ruin the study. Also, I don't think regular workouts induce that much pain in the first place, or should, especially in a study like this.

That being said, I think there is a lot of literature on anti-inflammatory and how beneficial they are to overall health. Yet, there is a lot we do not know about the effects of anti-inflammatory on the body. I think this muscle growth has less to do with the "less pain" theory or being able to work out more, a real study would have people work out in the same manner.

The magic is in the anti-inflammatory. This drug does not only simply reduce pain, it does much, much more than that.

I've even read athletes say a shot of cortisone is the best PED ever created. Same thing.

Most people don't really care about performance enhancing substances. They just like to pretend that they do.

exactly

I've been surprised with all the talk of "greenies," hGH, steroids and even this article, to see that creatine does not get get discussed much in connection to performance enhancement. My guess is that it is being used by guys, but why such little talk of it?

Because it's legal and believed to be safe?

The magic is in the anti-inflammatory. This drug does not only simply reduce pain, it does much, much more than that.

Except that acetaminophen is not really all that anti-inflammatory, certainly not to the extent that ibuprofen is. It would be nice if this article provided any information through which we could find the original study, but they don't even mention any of the authors' names.

Because it's legal and believed to be safe?

Is it now? There used to be a lot of misconceptions about it.

Except that acetaminophen is not really all that anti-inflammatory, certainly not to the extent that ibuprofen is. It would be nice if this article provided any information through which we could find the original study, but they don't even mention any of the authors' names.

Except when acetaminophen is taken with ibuprofen as it clearly said in the study.

Care to comment on my point?

Thirty-six men and women, between 60 and 78 years of age, were randomly assigned to daily dosages of either ibuprofen, such as that in Advil, acetaminophen such as that in Tylenol, or a placebo.

A study by physiologists at the Human Performance Laboratory, Ball State University shows taking daily recommended dosages of ibuprofen and acetaminophen

Of course in the next paragraph contradicts this. Either way, we have little information about how this was conducted, measured, etc.

There has been maybe 2 interesting points made in this thread, I'm done.

Of course in the next paragraph contradicts this. Either way, we have little information about how this was conducted, measured, etc.

There has been maybe 2 interesting points made in this thread, I'm done.

Fine then professor do what you have to do while I carefully balance the data in this immeasurably critical piece of surveying genius regarding a roomful of senior citizens and their mild medications.

Is it now? There used to be a lot of misconceptions about it.

Yeah, there used to a lot of misconceptions about creatine. What do misconceptions have to do with safety?