Blech. What a terrible deal. Crisp is not as good as Teahen offensively, makes more money, is near 30...why do we make this deal? Now we're probably going to move DJ or Teahen and replace him with Coco, which makes our offense worse. And offense was by far our biggest weakness last year.

He better make up for this by dealing Teahen to the Cubs for Josh Vitters, Sean Marshall and Felix Pie.

Royals fans have any thoughts on Ramirez?

Goodbye outfield depth. Jacoby Ellsbury, your time is nigh.

This Ramirez guy K's almost a man an inning, doesn't give up longballs, but does struggle with his control a bit.

Ramirez allowed only 2 HRs in 70 innings this season. Impressive.

Royals management's strategies seem to be based around the idea that you can easily create good relief pitchers and then trade them. And that they have some special ability to do this. (maybe they do)

Hey look, Horacio Ramirez isn't just a horrible starter, he's a good relief pitcher, and the Royals now have him as a trading chip. (and they traded him for Paulo Orlando...is he a real prospect?) Same deal with Rob Tejeda, who the Royals still have.

So, the Royals acquired Mike Jacobs, who gives them none of the things they need. Well, at least they only gave up a reliever, and they can make more. So, the Royals acquired Coco Crisp, who gives them none of the things they need and is old and expensive. Well, at least they only gave up a reliever, and they can make more.

If they can do that, say, 30 times, they might end up above .500!

I wonder what the Joakim Soria trade will be like...and how long before Tony Pena Jr. is a relief pitcher with a 2.50 ERA, sought after by the Mets.

Royals fans have any thoughts on Ramirez?

I thought he could close if they wanted to move Soria to the rotation. He doesn't throw particularly hard, but he keeps the ball low and has this really great "hard" changeup. With a better defense behind him, he could really put together a great year.

This looks like a nice trade for the Sawx. They get a promising bullpen arm and get a bit of payroll flexibility going into the meat of the free agency season. I know 5 million in room means less to them than to another team, but efficiency matters, even to a high revenue team like the Sawx. The one question I have is who backs up/acts as insurance for Ellsbury? For the Royals, I'm going to withhold judgement until I see what else they do. (If this move anticipates dumping Billy Butler, then I think it's a disaster.) If they were planning on flipping Ramirez, then maybe they should have kept Nunez. Interesting. Dayton Moore is working hard, at least.

Moore, I think, has taken the phrase "relievers are fungible" entirely to heart. The Royals had a pretty good no-name pen last year. I'm guessing that Moore thinks that he can find solid relievers fairly easily, and so is willing to offload them.

EDIT: Too slow, as always.

The one question I have is who backs up/acts as insurance for Ellsbury?

Without going through the whole list I have to believe that the Sox can come up with something to replace Crisp. I saw Baldelli's name getting bandied about the other day which would probably be a decent fit now. Chris Carter isn't a perfect fit (he can barely play left, let alone center or right) but I wouldn't mind seeing him get 150 at bats in the right role. What's Jonathan Van Every's status? He's got a decent minor league track record. The Sox should be able to do better than him but he doesn't look like the worst fallback position in the world either.

My initial reaction is that this is a lose-lose deal, but maybe I'll come around to it. I guess I was higher on Crisp (or maybe lower on Ellsbury) than the Sox.

Sawx

Shooty, when it comes to Boston you always use four letters when three will do. Why?

Shooty, when it comes to Boston you always use four letters when three will do. Why?

Out of respect for the other Sox.

edit: For me it's easier for Sox = White Sox and Sawx = Red Sox than to give the Red Sox the Sox designation and then type White Sox all the time. Plus, I know it annoys White Sox fans that Sox is supposed to generically mean Red Sox and I'm sympathetic to their annoyance.

What's Jonathan Van Every's status? He's got a decent minor league track record.

He can be an AAA insurance policy for the next few years, if you desire - last offseason was his first time on a 40-man. I'd be worried about why his already very high K rate skyrocketed toward the end of last season - could be a structural reason. Good glove, decent pop, decent base runner. You could do worse, but should do better if you're Boston with all that that entails.

Paulo Orlando...is he a real prospect?

No.

Getting Crisp has to mean DeJesus is gone. Right?

Ramirez allowed only 2 HRs in 70 innings this season. Impressive.

I'm a long time R-Ram fan (nice job getting him for Jorge de la Rubbish last year), but the low HR rate was a little fluky - '08 was near the height of what he can do.

As a rookie he gave up 5 HR in 67.2 for Colorado. That isn't bad.

For the Royals, I'm going to withhold judgement until I see what else they do. (If this move anticipates dumping Billy Butler, then I think it's a disaster.)

Crisp and Butler aren't exactly redundant. Maybe they end up dumping Butler and you can consider it a disaster, but I don't think it will happen because they acquired Crisp.

Done deal

Crisp and Butler aren't exactly redundant. Maybe they end up dumping Butler and you can consider it a disaster, but I don't think it will happen because they acquired Crisp.

I hear you. I think I'm looking at them going with Crisp/DeJesus/Guillen and then feeling like they can have Teahen play first while Jacobs DH's or something. Or that they think they're set on offense and they should flip Butler for some bullpen help to make up for the loss of Ramirez and Nunez. My guess is Teahen will be the one to go, but they don't seem all that committed to Butler. Am I wrong on that? If I'm a Royals fan I would very much want them to plug Butler in at DH and then leave him the hell alone for the season.

Former Yankee!

Paulo Orlando...is he a real prospect?

I bet he'd be a great lounge singer.

I agree that Crisp and DeJesus are redundant. Saw a suggestion that DeJesus might be a good fit for the Yankees? Crisp may not be an offensive upgrade over Teahen or Butler, but he is a vastly better defensive player.

The deal makes good sense for the Red Sox as long as they come up with a solid fourth OF to replace Crisp. Rocco Baldelli would make me happy in that role.

Justin Masterson is presumably the odd man out. Trade? Or rotation?

Thank God there's no chance of Mike Timlin's Corpse having a place in the bullpen again.

If you are worrying about the quality of your seventh reliever, you either have a really good team or you are overlooking some more significant concerns.

baseballreference.com's only weakness is the huge lag between transactions occuring and having them appear on the involved player's page .... so how did KC acquire Ramon Ramirez from Colorado?

Am I the only person here who thinks this deal works for the Royals? Assuming Crisp replaces Teahen, I think the Royals just became a (marginally) better team. Teahen is an ok bat who would probably be ideally suited for duty as a high end utility man. Crisp posted a similar line last season with the bonus of being an outstanding defensive CF with great speed. Assuming this means that Teahen goes, the Royals seem to have made a major defensive upgrade by being able to put Crisp and DeJesus together. If Crisp replaces DeJesus, then it must be a move that's really centered around the decent prospect or two that DeJesus could probably bring back. Another very small step forward for the Royals.

The one question I have is who backs up/acts as insurance for Ellsbury?

Bubba Bell, I'd imagine. I actually happen to think he's something of a sleeper, and might be a reasonably useful player if deployed properly in the majors.


EDIT: The more I think about the Royals offseason, the less I really like their pattern. I believe that they've made upgrades at 1B and (presumably) CF, and I do believe these moves were worthwhile looking towards 2009. However, it feels like Moore is building the kind of team the Pirates always seem to have, where it's almost as though they're gunning for .500, as opposed to really trying to build towards something big.
Right now, I've got the Royals every day lineup as something like Crisp-DDJ-Gordon-Guillen-Jacobs-Buck-Butler-Aviles-2B (no specific order). That's a team that has a little pop, a little speed, a hint of BA, and less than stellar defense on the whole. That's a whole lot of nothing, long-term. It's not even as though this is a roster that could smallball it's way into something bigger, since the defense isn't good enough to buoy the pitching, and there's not enough contact or speed to "make things happen". A collection of mediocre veterans and starstruck prospects, ideal for the midseason contender to pick and choose from. They'll probably sign Edgar Renteria or Cesar Izturis to complete their "brand names for less!" motif. I don't object to the Crisp deal, but I do object to the philosophy which seems to be behind it.

Josh Reddick is also approaching the majors, perhaps. But I think they need to add a veteran 4th OF to the roster.

If you are worrying about the quality of your seventh reliever, you either have a really good team or you are overlooking some more significant concerns.

Catching aside there really isn't much of a *need* spot for the Red Sox. Lowell is old, but Youk can replace him (and presumably will shift to 3rd when/if Lars Anderson is ready). Lowrie might struggle at SS but Lugo is around if needed (if he can accept the utility role). A 4th outfielder is needed, 4th and 5th spots in the rotation seem to be going the way of "throw decent end of the rotation options at a wall and see what sticks" - Masterson, Wakefield, Bucholz, Byrd? Colon? Schilling? And this trade seems to hash out the bullpen.

Catcher, 4th and/or 5th starter, 4th outfielder. Not bad.

I was hoping that the Reds would try to get Crisp, but I didn't think they had anything Boston could use. But it seems like the Red Sox moved him pretty cheap, if this is in fact true.

Josh Reddick is also approaching the majors, perhaps. But I think they need to add a veteran 4th OF to the roster.

Agreed. If this person could back up the corners (1B/3B/RF), that would be perfect. Someone like Casey Blake before everyone realized he was pretty good. With Ortiz and Lowell in recovery and Drew being Drew, the Sox need to be thinking about 300-400 PA from the 10th man and budget accordingly.

The other option is to sign Teixeira and ask Youks to bust out those 3B and OF gloves. It has its logic.

To jacksone, I see no reason for the Red Sox to opt against spending money. Especially, why throw not very good pitchers, relievers, and injured pitchers at the 4/5 slots when you can spend all of your money on CC Sabathia? Which is what they should do.

My biggest concern with the current roster is covering for Lowell and Drew. Ideally the Red Sox would look for a veteran 1B/OF who can play quality defense on the corners, is competent in CF, a switch-hitter... Anybody know where we can find one of those?

And catcher, of course. This trade may free up Masterson to fill that need.

I honestly think that Moore is trying to win the division in 2009. He's trying to put together a team that can fluke its way to 87 wins and take a weak division if the Indians and White Sox don't put it together. He needs a hell of a lot to go right, but I think that's the idea.

baseballreference.com's only weakness is the huge lag between transactions occuring and having them appear on the involved player's page .... so how did KC acquire Ramon Ramirez from Colorado?

It was a weird transaction. It was for a PTBNL, but then the Royals dealt Jorge de la Rosa to the Rockies for a PTBNL, so people kinda assumed they were dealt for each other, but they weren't - it was two separate deals. The PTBNL in the Ramirez deal ended up being P Valerio de los Santos, who I wasn't even aware was in the Royals organization.

The other option is to sign Teixeira and ask Youks to bust out those 3B and OF gloves. It has its logic.

To jacksone, I see no reason for the Red Sox to opt against spending money. Especially, why throw not very good pitchers, relievers, and injured pitchers at the 4/5 slots when you can spend all of your money on CC Sabathia? Which is what they should do.

Oh, I see no reason to stop with the money flow either - I am more of a fan of the Teix than CC, although either one would fit well. I will be pretty disappointed if the Sox don't buy one of them.

Is Crisp an outstanding defensive CF? He's been very up-and-down--brilliant with Cleveland and last year for Boston, but quite pedestrian in '06 and '08. Has he been playing hurt at all? Sean Smith only has him at -3 in CF next year.

If you are worrying about the quality of your seventh reliever, you either have a really good team or you are overlooking some more significant concerns.

True. When thinking about Timlin, I'm much more concerned about my blood pressure than the state of the Red Sox.

An outfield with DeJesus, Crisp, and Guillen isn't all that bad. Especially compared to any outfield combo involving Joey Gathright.

Crisp will need to keep his extra-base power up to succeed in KC. Something that will put him on 2nd on loopers, or drive in runners.

Dayton Moore learned how to GM by trading baseball cards. He collected tons of Jerry Augustine cards and exchanged them for a Jim Wohlford.

I don't get why people are confused about what KC is doing here? As #24 points out, this puts Crisp in CF -- does anyone think an upgrade on Gathright isn't a good thing? -- and DeJesus in LF. Maybe DeJesus should stick in CF -- I don't see why not -- but Moore said very early that getting DeJesus back to LF was an offseason goal.

Teahen? People are upset this might mean a Teahen trade? He's had an OPS+ below 100 the last two seasons. His proper role on a team is back-up corner player and maybe that's how the Royals will use him. If they can find someone who wants to pretend he's a starting 3B, then thsy should swap him immediately (and that was true before they got Crisp).

Right now, I've got the Royals every day lineup as something like Crisp-DDJ-Gordon-Guillen-Jacobs-Buck-Butler-Aviles-2B (no specific order). That's a team that has a little pop, a little speed, a hint of BA, and less than stellar defense on the whole. That's a whole lot of nothing, long-term.

I see where you're coming from but that seems a bit harsh and early. The Royals were always gonna be a whole lot of nothing long-term if Gordon and Butler didn't turn out the way they're supposed to. But they're both still young and they could. And they've got fairly cheap and controlled Jacobs (meh), Aviles and DeJesus (3/$14!) to supplement. Guillen is the only player over 30. They're a long way from good and they'll never come close to it if Butler and Gordon don't develop. But how many lineups this side of Tampa Bay (who aren't particularly good offensively actually) have long-term promise?

I honestly think that Moore is trying to win the division in 2009.

So what you're saying is that i'm going to get horribly drunk in the right field fountain section of Kauffman Stadium as the Royals face off against the Yankees in the pivotal game 5?

Justin Masterson is presumably the odd man out. Trade? Or rotation?

I think the club wants his long term future to be in the rotation, and it hasn't been sufficiently proven that he can't be an effective starter, though the Red Sox aren't in a position to be really patient with him if he doesn't pan out as one. He'll need to solve his issues with lefty batters for that to happen but he's still developing so it could happen.

Oh yeah, the trade. Depends how much of Crisp's contract the Red Sox are picking up. Ramon being Ramon has an awfully nice K-rate and great HR-rate, even the time he was in Coors.

As #24 points out, this puts Crisp in CF -- does anyone think an upgrade on Gathright isn't a good thing?

But he's not really replacing Gathright, he's replacing either DJ or Teahen, one of which is certain to be traded now. Gathright was going to be a bench player next year regardless. And that's setting the bar awfully low. Anyone would be an improvement over Gathright. Simply doing anything though wouldn't necessarily be a good move for the Royals. They have to make moves that make sense long-term.

Teahen? People are upset this might mean a Teahen trade? He's had an OPS+ below 100 the last two seasons. His proper role on a team is back-up corner player and maybe that's how the Royals will use him.

But isn't Teahen a pretty similar player to Crisp offensively? You're going to swap them out for each other, which will cost you $1-2 million more this year, and two controllable years (assuming they buy out Crisp's final year and don't pick up the option). All for what, to improve the defense? Offense was the big concern last year.

It was a weird transaction. It was for a PTBNL, but then the Royals dealt Jorge de la Rosa to the Rockies for a PTBNL, so people kinda assumed they were dealt for each other, but they weren't - it was two separate deals. The PTBNL in the Ramirez deal ended up being P Valerio de los Santos, who I wasn't even aware was in the Royals organization.

thanks. I looked around and read somewhere the misconception that you mention (that it was a trade for De La Rosa). The article I read made it seem like the Rockies wanted to use Ramirez' roster spot for Micah Bowie, who gave them about 8 terrible innings for the year. Seems like a pretty bad trade by Colorado.

Well, on Dayton's conference call, he just said they got Ramirez for de la Rosa. So I may be mistaken.

But isn't Teahen a pretty similar player to Crisp offensively? You're going to swap them out for each other, which will cost you $1-2 million more this year, and two controllable years (assuming they buy out Crisp's final year and don't pick up the option). All for what, to improve the defense? Offense was the big concern last year.

Coco's baserunning has to add a couple of runs to his value. And I'll bet that Moore thinks that Coco might pull an Edgar Renteria and revert to something like his pre-Red Sox form when he leaves Boston. Maybe a bounce to a 105ish OPS. I wouldn't make that bet, but I think that's Moore's thinking.

Is Crisp an outstanding defensive CF? He's been very up-and-down--brilliant with Cleveland and last year for Boston, but quite pedestrian in '06 and '08. Has he been playing hurt at all? Sean Smith only has him at -3 in CF next year.

I'm inclined to distrust defensive stats for OFs... Common opinion in Boston is that Crisp is an excellent defensive CF, better than Ellsbury (who sometimes takes odd routes and threw to the wrong base a few times). Zone Rating, OTOH, suggests that he is one of the worst CFs in the league. RZR puts him between Sizemore and Beltran, though with many fewer "Out of Zone" plays.

IMHO, Crisp is a top-third defensive CF. Excellent range, good fundamentals, weak arm. Roughly comparable to DeJesus, perhaps? The low OOZ totals may be a result of playing between Ellsbury and Drew so often. Plenty of competition for those balls in the gaps. Overall, the Red Sox defensive efficiency last year was excellent, so I have a hard time believing that their outfielders were all mediocre.

To follow up my extremely cogent analysis in comment #5, I just remembered that the very first thing Dayton Moore did as GM was trade mysteriously mediocre starting pitcher prospect JP Howell for...Joey Gathright. Soon thereafter, Howell had been turned into a good reliever by the Devil Rays.

"If only I'd done that," Moore thought to himself. "Instead of trading mediocre starting pitcher prospect JP Howell for the poor man's Coco Crisp, I could have traded ace reliever JP Howell for the real Coco Crisp!"

And so the new strategy began...

Coco's baserunning has to add a couple of runs to his value.

Teahen is supposed to be a very good baserunner as well.

Is Crisp an outstanding defensive CF? He's been very up-and-down--brilliant with Cleveland and last year for Boston, but quite pedestrian in '06 and '08. Has he been playing hurt at all? Sean Smith only has him at -3 in CF next year.

For whatever reason it seemed like Crisp got EXCELLENT jumps on everything that was hit in 2007. It seemed like he was already moving before the ball was hit, last year he didn't seem to be as quick at reading the ball off the bat. He was still good but not like he was in '07. I suppose it's possible that in '07 Lugo was flashing signs to him in center and for some reason Lowrie either didn't do that or didn't do it as well but that's a reach.

Crisp is making 5.75M in 09, with a 8M club option in 2010. I'm assuming the Royals won't pick up that option.

Is Dayton hoping that Crisp has a great year, becomes a type A free agent, lets him walk, and picks up 2 draft picks?

If he keeps trading these relievers with live arms, one of these trades could come back to haunt him.

Crisp is making 5.75M in 09, with a 8M club option in 2010. I'm assuming the Royals won't pick up that option.

Is Dayton hoping that Crisp has a great year, becomes a type A free agent, lets him walk, and picks up 2 draft picks?

If Crisp has a great year, I assume that picking up his option for $8 million would be a better strategy than letting him walk.

If Crisp has a great year, I assume that picking up his option for $8 million would be a better strategy than letting him walk.

Yeah, and if he sucks I doubt he gets offered arb, so draft picks seem unlikely.

Crisp is making 5.75M in 09, with a 8M club option in 2010. I'm assuming the Royals won't pick up that option.

Is Dayton hoping that Crisp has a great year, becomes a type A free agent, lets him walk, and picks up 2 draft picks?


He was just on the radio and said that Crisp is a "two year player", but also says he has "value throughout the industry." I guess maybe he thinks he can flip him in July of 2010? I wouldn't bet much on that.

He was just on the radio and said that Crisp is a "two year player", but also says he has "value throughout the industry." I guess maybe he thinks he can flip him in July of 2010? I wouldn't bet much on that.

That reminds me of the Winter the Royals signed both Reggie Sanders and Grudzielanek to 2-year deals and I convinced myself that was a strategic decision which would give them two chances to trade them at the trading deadline to a team desperate for veteran solidity and thus drive up the price.

Dayton Moore's overriding strategy (other than a fixation with moving DeJesus to left field) seems to consist of making incremental improvements of the Crisp over Gathright and Jacobs over Gload variety. I may not live long enough to see this process result in acquiring good players.

Right now, I've got the Royals every day lineup as something like Crisp-DDJ-Gordon-Guillen-Jacobs-Buck-Butler-Aviles-2B (no specific order).

Moore has stated that Olivo will be the starting catcher in '09

Teahen is supposed to be a very good baserunner as well.

Teahen is an excellent baserunner. He won't steal forty bases, but he has excellent baserunning instincts. I've watched him break from first on a double or second on a single where your initial thought is, "there's no way he'll score" and shortly after that he scores standing up.

If I have the right guy in mind, and I may not because the Royals had a couple relivers with similar names, watch Ramirez on intentional walks. The guy throws 80 when he's putting someone on. When I was down there in August even the Royals radio guy was talking about it. His new coaches may try to change this, but if they don't it's something to behold.

I saw Teahen score an inside the park home run, and he scored another one against the Twins.

Dayton Moore's overriding strategy (other than a fixation with moving DeJesus to left field) seems to consist of making incremental improvements of the Crisp over Gathright and Jacobs over Gload variety. I may not live long enough to see this process result in acquiring good players.

He's doing pretty well, considering all he started with was one red paper clip.

I believe it was (essentially) Ramirez for De La Rosa - though they were technically different deals.

Echoing what some others have said, I have to think this is a precursor to a deal for a catcher. At least, I really hope so.

The Dodgers are running low on old Red Sox players - Lowell and an arm for Russell Martin. How does that not make a lot of sense for both clubs?

Common opinion in Boston is that Crisp is an excellent defensive CF, better than Ellsbury (who sometimes takes odd routes and threw to the wrong base a few times).

I'm pretty sure Ellsbury was better than Crisp defensively this year.

For whatever reason it seemed like Crisp got EXCELLENT jumps on everything that was hit in 2007. It seemed like he was already moving before the ball was hit, last year he didn't seem to be as quick at reading the ball off the bat. He was still good but not like he was in '07. I suppose it's possible that in '07 Lugo was flashing signs to him in center and for some reason Lowrie either didn't do that or didn't do it as well but that's a reach.

I would only add that it seemed like he guessed right every time he dove or held up in 2007 while in 2008, he mostly seemed to guess wrong in those split second decisions.

Hard to evaluate this trade without knowing what you get for Teahen (or Gathright, I suppose). Teahen's 91 OPS+ is pretty interchangeable with Crisp's 93, plus the defense improves and you take at bats away from Gathright by virtue of filling the CF spot. I suppose the next step is to trade Teahen or Gathright for a second baseman.

Teahen to the Cubs for Ronny Cedeno, with Aviles moving to second, seems like it would make a lot of sense for both teams.

I would want more than Cedeno for Teahen. Fontenot makes more sense to me.

I agree with AG#1F. I'm not convinced Cedeno would hold down the position. I'd take Fontenot, though. Cedeno + Pie for Teahen + something would make sense if we hadn't just traded for Crisp.

Hmmm...as a Sox fan, it looks good. Ramirez peripherils are nice. However I am always sceptical regarding bullpen help. A dominant closer in the mould of Rivera or Papelbon can be somewhat predicted year to year. However the building of quality relief from innings 6-8 seems to be a dark art that very few teams master from year to year. Kudos to the Angels in this department.

When I first heard it I liked this trade (for KC), probably the first Moore trade I've really liked.
(and I should add I hate Coco Crisp)

Now, it's a little meh.
The Royals are just too poor and too barren to do anything better than mediocre moves.
If AG and Butler don;t become all-stars this is going to be a really painful team to follow for the next five years.

KC seems REALLY down on DDJ's defense, I have no idea why.

I'm pretty sure Ellsbury was better than Crisp defensively this year.

Biff, I agree with you. Haven't found many other Red Sox fans doing so, however. And from what I can tell they are both pretty good.

KC seems REALLY down on DDJ's defense, I have no idea why.

Because it's not that good, maybe (at least in CF)?

-- MWE

This is the kind of trade where good defensive numbers would help a lot. You could plausibly argue that Crisp is much better or much worse than DeJesus in center field. If he's much better, the Royals improve defensively at two positions. If he's worse than DeJesus, the Royals don't get much compensation for the downside risk they take with his bat.

If you are worrying about the quality of your seventh reliever, you either have a really good team or you are overlooking some more significant concerns.

Guh?

"If you are worrying about the quality of X, you either have nothing more important to worry about or you are overlooking something more important you should be worrying about."

I also agree with Biff about Ellsbury vs. Coco on defense.

This is the kind of trade where good defensive numbers would help a lot. You could plausibly argue that Crisp is much better or much worse than DeJesus in center field. If he's much better, the Royals improve defensively at two positions. If he's worse than DeJesus, the Royals don't get much compensation for the downside risk they take with his bat.

Crisp's 3 years in Boston show an up and down defender. He was one of the best defensive CFers in the game last year, but regressed this year. As I watched him it looked like he had slowed down just a tick, but the real issue to me was that it looked like he was trying to always make phenomenal plays, diving for balls that he should've held up on and played on the bounce (these balls tended to roll for awhile, so they probably really hurt his stats this year). I think if he's got the starting job he should be fine, it really looked like he was trying to overcompensate for loosing his starting gig to Ellsbury.

That said, +/- has Coco at -2 for 2008 and DeJesus at -10. DeJesus does pretty well in LF (+8 in 2008) so this looks like it upgrades the KC OF defense.

I'm fully convinced that Coco, once out of Boston, will turn back into the 295/345/450 player the Red Sox thought they were getting when they traded Marte and Shoppach for him. The Royals have amde a few deals that were surprising at the time, but turned out to be worthwhile, ie, the Meche deal.

Has karlmagnus chimed in on this yet?

"If you are worrying about the quality of X, you either have nothing more important to worry about or you are overlooking something more important you should be worrying about."

Far too many words wasted on the Red Sox mop-up man last year. One might almost be tricked into thinking that it is a critical role on the team.

When I first heard it I liked this trade (for KC), probably the first Moore trade I've really liked.
(and I should add I hate Coco Crisp)

Now, it's a little meh.

I'm the exact opposite. As you can see in #1, my initial reaction was also "WTF, this sucks." Now, I think the team could benefit from a much improved outfield defense. Crisp will likely hit as well as Teahen, who is probably on his way out. And if you can spin Teahen for something slightly more valuable than Ramon Ramirez, which I think you can, then it turns out to be a pretty good set of moves.

I see where you're coming from but that seems a bit harsh and early. The Royals were always gonna be a whole lot of nothing long-term if Gordon and Butler didn't turn out the way they're supposed to. But they're both still young and they could. And they've got fairly cheap and controlled Jacobs (meh), Aviles and DeJesus (3/$14!) to supplement. Guillen is the only player over 30. They're a long way from good and they'll never come close to it if Butler and Gordon don't develop. But how many lineups this side of Tampa Bay (who aren't particularly good offensively actually) have long-term promise?

Having stepped back, I do see your point. I understand that Moore is probably just trying to put out a reasonably competitive team while waiting for the kids to develop. That having been said, it's still offputting when a roster just screams "We're trying for .500!!!" Perhaps Moore will get lucky and Butler or Gordon will wake up and become that impact bat they so obviously need. Until then, however, I'll refrain from seeing this as anything more a band-aid placed on a gaping wound.

I am fully prepared to eat my words if Crisp bounces back and is dealt for good prospects, btw. In fact, I wouldn't be too surprised if that is just the case.

AG#1F-
I have to say I'm really surprised the reaction wasn't better.
Even if Crisp plays at around his current level, and his defense in just upper third, not spectacular, I see this as a win for KC.
A speedy guy who'll OB ~3.50 and plays center for a young reliver for a team that doesn;t need them?
Honestly, I was way more upset about the Jacobs trade.
Partly because I like Nunez, and partly because I hated Mike Jacobs being a 'solution' to anything.

I was surprised by the reaction, too. If anything, I would have thought there would be too much exuberance based on the name recognition factor.

Maybe people just don't want to contemplate moving players down the defensive spectrum during the offseason.

If they'd traded for Crisp three years ago the "name recognition factor" would have helped him. Now, all of us know him as the disappointing and mediocre guy who is constantly denigrated and resented by Boston fans for

A) standing in the way of universally beloved future superstar Jacoby Ellsbury
B) being paid untold millions of the Red Sox's scarce dollars
C) costing them Kelly Shoppach in a trade
D) not being as good of a hitter as J.D. Drew, Manny Ramirez, or Jason Bay.