Wow, and the Phillies couldn't put together a better package?

Good God I hate being a fan of this team.

Hendry... the king of the midseason deal.

This is a great trade for the Cubs. They didn't give up anything more than spare parts for a dominant pitcher. I love Murton as much as anyone, and think Gallagher will be a decent 4th starter, but this is a real steal.

The Chicago Cubs acquired right-handed pitchers Rich Harden and Chad Gaudin from the Oakland Athletics for right-handed pitcher Sean Gallagher, outfielder Matt Murton, infielder Eric Patterson and catcher Josh Donaldson on Tuesday.

According to SportsNet.ca.

Wow. Are there any A prospects in this deal?

I'm not that thrilled about losing Eric Patterson, but Harden should be a good pickup for the Cubs. The Sox smacked him around Sunday, though...

Jesus F Christ. My initial reaction is, who the eff are these guys? I know who Murton is - Emil Brown's replacement. But who are these other three guys? Based on who we gave up, they must be studs. /A's fan reaction

Did they misspell Vitters?

There's like one B prospect in the deal. What a ####### joke.

This is a great trade for the Cubs. They didn't give up anything more than spare parts for a dominant pitcher. I love Murton as much as anyone, and think Gallagher will be a decent 4th starter, but this is a real steal.

If Murton could catch, play SS, or play CF -- he's a fine payer, but he's nothing at all special in the corner spot. I think Gallagher might actually end up being a solid #3/overmatched #2 on a bad team, but this sure looks like a steal to me.

Gaudin as a throw in is a steal for the Cubs.

####### A.

The only way the A's make this deal is if they are convinced there is a high probability that Harden will get injured again... soon.

How many more starts will Harden make this season? Would anyone be surprised if the answer was zero?

This is trading high-risk, high-reward for certainty by the A's.

Harden's shoulder must be hanging from a thread...

Go Cubs Go!

I have been saying, please trade Harden NOW, quick, before he goes down again. But I imagined receiving some uber prospects in return.

Huh? Gaudin is better than anyone the A's are getting.

The only way the A's make this deal is if they are convinced there is a high probability that Harden will get injured again... soon.

Who isn't convinced of that?

Doesn't seem like enough value, but Billy Beane has more experience making trades than I do. He might be better at it.

I don't know anything about Gallagher, but his minor league numbers look really nice. And he's only 22.

Nice to wave the white flag before the all-star break.

The only way this trade makes sense for the As is Harden is Mark Prior in disguise.
Jesus, they are 6 behind in teh division, 4 out of the WC. This is the ultimate White Flag trade.

The worst part is Chad Gaudin being a throw-in. I can understand if the market just isn't there for Harden and you feel you need to move him while you can, but Gaudin could easily step into the rotation for a couple months and build up legitimate value on his own.


And the best of the four guys we got? Another ####### pitcher. Way to address the dearth of bats in this system, Billy.

My initial reaction is, who the eff are these guys?

Eric Patterson is an aging middle infield prospect who is hoping to be the next Mark Derosa...

Gallagher has a career stat line (MLB and minors that is just good enough to be interesting- but I've never heard him mentioned as a prospect)...

Actually it would be real funny if Harden gets hurt and Gallagher out pitches him the rest of the way...

Damn you, Ben Grieve.

And as I said in the other thread, why give up a cheap pitcher like Gaudin?

JOHN F'ING MABRY?!!

I'm not that thrilled about losing Eric Patterson, but Harden should be a good pickup for the Cubs. The Sox smacked him around Sunday, though...


Um, you realize that they just gave up a decent pitcher, and some roster fodder for a potential ace? Really, if you're more worried about losing Corey Patterson's brother than getting Rich Harden, wow.

Wait, where's the famed BBTF Beane's-a-genius groupthink?

Cubs prospects LOL!!!

I'm hearing that Beane thinks Josh Donaldson could be the next Jeremy Brown.

The other 3 players are just gravy.

Well if Patterson can really play 2B, he's a real player...

and Ellis is probably available now....

#1 - Agreed. If the Phils had included Marson, I can't believe they couldn't beat this.

I have a sinking feeling I'm going to be seeing the words "Carrasco" and "Bedard" in an MLB.com story soon.

This Gallagher has some impressive numbers, actually. I like this trade for the Cubs, the A's, and the Angels.

Harden and Gaudin
for
Gallagher, Murton, Eric Patterson, and Josh Donaldson

WTF???

Gallagher is an intriguing pitching prospect, but he's the only player worth anything that Oakland is getting. Murton and Patterson are fringe major leaguers, and Donaldson is a longshot to even make it to the majors.

Gaudin's fungible, but he's more useful than Murton and Patterson.

I don't understand this trade from Oakland's perspective AT ALL. Beane is essentially conceding the season despite being just 6 GB in the AL West and 3.5 GB in the AL Wildcard (behind Boston and Minnesota). If they were going to trade Harden, they needed to get amazing return. And Gallagher plus two scrubs and a lottery ticket isn't it, IMHO.

I don't know anything about Gallagher, but his minor league numbers look really nice. And he's only 22.

Gallagher will be a solid mid-rotation guy, but he just doesn't have any single pitch that's good enough to target him for the top of the rotation. His fastball is generally in the 89-92 range, he's got a decent curve, but by no means a knee-buckler, and his changeup is pretty decent (maybe more so for a 22 yo). He generally throws strikes, but he's not a surgeon.

He's a solid pitcher -- just not someone that I'm all that upset over losing. He'll probably be a nice value pitcher until he hits arbitration, and assuming he stays healthy, be over-paid thereafter.

I hear you, Waterloo!

WOOHOO!

Now if Tony Reagins could stop channelling his predecessor and pry Matt Kemp from the Dodgers for one of our shortstops...

This is the ultimate White Flag trade.

Well, the actual White Flag turned out pretty good. There goes Beane biting the White Sox style again... :)

Harden complained of a dead arm two weeks ago and hasn't been Hardenesque since. Perhaps the A's are bailing on him before his arm falls off?

Sheet man
The Dbacks had to give up tons for Haren, and the Cubs get Harden and Gaudin for this junk?
WTF?

Gallagher has a career stat line (MLB and minors that is just good enough to be interesting- but I've never heard him mentioned as a prospect)...

Gallagher's been fairly well regarded at times in the past. I doubt he'll ever be staff ace material, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him win 13-15 games a few seasons in his career.

I secretly still root for Murton. I hope he hits Oakland and puts up a .900 OPS for the next 5 years, just to stick it to the Cubs.

Awesome trade for Chicago. Donaldson, Patterson and Murton are all blocked and Gallagher is at least somewhat redundant.

Gaudin as the throw-in is the cherry on top.

Donaldson was somewhere near #50 in BPro's prospect rankings. Gallagher is a pitcher the Cubs have always thought had #2 potential, but is probably more like a #3, Murton is already known around here, and Patterson really doesn't seem like something the Cubs really needed. Overall it seems like a good deal for the Cubs as they give up 3 players they don't or won't use along with Gallagher for Harden and Gaudin.

Anyone know why Gaudin was moved from the rotation to the bullpen?

Usually when Beane makes crappy looking trades he makes another right after that gets the real guys he wants... At least I'll keep telling myself that.

At first I thought the trade included Sean Marshall & couldn't believe how good it was . . .

I like Sean Gallagher, but if you a chance to pick up someone like Harden for this pacage, yeah, you take it.

Maybe the Mets could cobble a package for Ellis...

Wait, where's the famed BBTF Beane's-a-genius groupthink?

It's met the immoveable object -- BBTF disdain for the Cubs...

If Hendry could just find someone to handle the offseason roster management and FA signings - the Cubs would have a powerhouse front office.

The A's have a young catcher in Kurt Suzuki, a former first rounder in Landon Powell, just drafted a high OBA catcher in Pete Paramore...and they trade for Josh Donaldson?

And that's probably pretty far down on the list of head scratchers from this trade.

It must be that Harden is about to blow, but I'm not sure I'd even trade Gaudin for Gallagher. I probably wouldn't--why bother?

I wonder if Chacin will go into the Cubs rotation. He should, but that would knock Marquis out, and he makes too much $$$ to get knocked out. No matter, because Harden will presumably be on the DL within a week.

Perhaps the A's are bailing on him before his arm falls off?

Also known as the Mulder scenario.

Anyone know why Gaudin was moved from the rotation to the bullpen?

I thought it was simply because the A's had five guys who were better than him. I can't understand why he was included in this deal.

I'd forgotten about the dead arm. His velocity's supposedly been down.

I think the Cubs win this trade, chiefly because they got Gaudin as a throw-in. But man...Rich Harden is an injury waiting to happen. And given what has happened to other pitchers Beane has let go...I have a bad feeling about this. But the Cubs didn't give that much up.

What I think is more fun to watch is the back and forth going on between GMs. This is clearly a response to the Sabathia trade. Wonder who makes the next move.

Take that Milwaukee!!!

Doesn't seem like enough value, but Billy Beane has more experience making trades than I do. He might be better at it.

12/17/2004
Braves get:
tim hudson

A's get:
dan meyer
juan cruz
charles thomas

as many have said, the throw in of chad "i'm a better pitcher right now than sean gallagher" gaudin is the real stinker of this deal.

unless the medicals on harden are really that awful and it's a less than 50% chance he makes it through the year.

weird.

The pupu platter the A's got is of little consequence, and the thing that had me scratching my head is, Chad Gaudin is a good pitcher. Why give him up?

But don't you see what Beane's up to? This trade's not like the Haren trade; it's not about picking up a bunch of prospects. Beane expects Harden to break down any day now, and he's getting back two guys that can play decently in the majors right now (Murton and Marshall), and Eric Patterson might make a useful bench guy. Beane made this trade because he thinks he's upgrading his roster right now, for 2008.

I'd forgotten about the dead arm. His velocity's supposedly been down.

If Chicago has to shut him down for two weeks the trade is still worth it.

Look, Harden is a phenomenal talent, but over the course of 2005, 2006, and 2007, he pitched a grand total of 200.3 innings, nearly two-thirds of which came in one season (the first one). I'm not sure the market for him is as high as we might think.

Maybe the Mets could cobble a package for Ellis...

YOU KEEP YOUR PRYING FINGERS OFF OUR ELLIS.


/sigh.

Wait, where's the famed BBTF Beane's-a-genius groupthink?

It's met the immoveable object -- BBTF disdain for the Cubs...

I'm surprised the Mets fans haven't hijacked this thread yet.

EDIT: Guess I should've refreshed the thread within 10 minutes of posting.

Anyone know why Gaudin was moved from the rotation to the bullpen?

I thought it was simply because the A's had five guys who were better than him. I can't understand why he was included in this deal.

Right. And I for one had comforted myself with the thought that Gaudin would slide back into the rotation when Harden got traded.

Look, Harden is a phenomenal talent, but over the course of 2005, 2006, and 2007, he pitched a grand total of 200.3 innings, nearly two-thirds of which came in one season (the first one). I'm not sure the market for him is as high as we might think.

But this year he's pitched more innings (77) than the last two years put together. If these trends continue...ayyyyyy!

Wow. I love this from the Cubs' end. I have no idea what Beane is thinking here. Even if he's convinced Murton is some sort of stud-in-waiting (and who could possibly think that at this point?), he's a bad fit (short-term) on a team that already has Cust and Thomas. Maybe Murton or Cust to 1B with Barton sitting?

And tossing in Gaudin?

I hope Harden isn't just the next Wood/Prior but even if he craps out, this is an excellent "gamble" on the Cubs' part. And obviously they are on different ends of the durability spectrum (to date), but, when healthy, Harden is a slightly better pitcher than Sabathia.

Really, I have no clue what Beane is thinking here. I know I said that already. Eric Patterson? For what purpose? As a CF? Or is this a sign Ellis won't be extended?

Sure, it saves the A's some money and Gallagher could be more valuable going forward than Harden and Gaudin combined (given Harden's injury history) but ... bleech. The Swisher trade was bleech too. Is he under orders to compete with the Marlins in the payroll derby? It's as if he doesn't even understand what made his good teams good -- having excellent young guys signed to good arb-buyout contracts (that almost all worked out). It's one thing to trade an "overpriced" player but with Haren, Swisher, Harden (to a lesser extent) and Gaudin, he's trading off good, affordable players. And it's not clear he's gotten one stud in return (much less a stud hitter which that team would seem to desparately need).

Unless we're about to see some name changes or this C prospect is a real stud.

Holy ####.

I'm surprised the Mets fans haven't hijacked this thread yet.

Blanton for Pelfrey and Fermart?

Also known as the Mulder scenario.

Well - Mulder (and Zito and Hudson for that matter) tossed a crap-load of innings by the time the A's let 'em walk... at exactly the right time for Mulder and Zito, but Hudson's been pretty decent for the Braves (his 2nd season stinker aside).

Harden doesn't have nearly the same mileage as Mulder and Zito... of course, that's because he's been hurt.

Still, Chris Carpenters do happen -- they just don't usually seem to happen to the Cubs, with their Doctor Zaius medical staff.

JOHN F'ING MABRY?!!

You're late, Craig. I believe somebody's already made the "Beane must know something we don't" post.

U.S.S. Mariner has been kicking around a possible mid-season Bedard trade in light of Sabathia, but they had no knowledge of this Rich Harden thing. I would say the consensus on what the Mariners would do was 50-50 ("they'll keep him to avoid selling low" / "they'll trade him because they're not the ones who made the dumbass offseason deal to acquire him").

I think the odds are down to 30-35% they will keep Bedard now. They'll perceive there is a white-hot pitching market and approach a contender (St. Louis?) to take him.

As soon as a team like the Brewers sees its window for success opening, big-budget juggernauts like the Yankees and Cubs try to slam it shut. How depressing.

I believe Keith Law really liked Donaldson in his top 100 prospects writeup.

At this point, we should just accept that Murton and Patterson are AAAA players.

Chad Gaudin is pretty average, and is 25. Sean Gallagher is pretty average, and is 22.

Chad Gaudin is striking 17% of opposing batters this year, and 16% over his career. He struck out approximately 22% in the minors (BFP estimated for a few seasons). Sean Gallagher is striking out 19% of batters this year, and 16% over his young career. He struck out approximately 24% of batters in the minors.

Chad Gaudin throws a 90-mph fastball. Sean Gallagher throws a 92-mph fastball.

It seems like the Gaudin-Gallagher exchange may be fairly even right now, but Gallagher has some room to grow. Barring a huge leap, Gaudin is what he is.

At this point, we should just accept that Murton and Patterson are AAAA players.

Murton is a perfectly legitimate corner OF... on a bad team.

He can hit major league pitching just fine, just not well enough for the position he's defensively suited for.

Harden has a $7 million team option for next season too..

I believe Keith Law really liked Donaldson in his top 100 prospects writeup.

He had an amazing first season in the minors but is stinking it up this year.

At this point, we should just accept that Murton and Patterson are AAAA players.

Neither of them are exciting but if Patterson really can play second base then he's OK and I wouldn't be surprised if Murton had more relative value in a pitcher's park. Really though, neither of these two guys are getting anybody closer to a championship.

I believe Keith Law really liked Donaldson in his top 100 prospects writeup.

And i was wondering why the A's tabbed Paramore so early. If anything , this says Landon Powell is done as a catcher.

Gallagher is a pitcher the Cubs have always thought had #2 potential, but is probably more like a #3

He already is a #3. He has a league average ERA and a decent K-rate. An average MLB starting pitcher has an ERA+ of 96.

I think this was partly a salary dump. Maybe Hunter (over slot bonus) + Inoa + Gallagher > Harden + Gaudin?

This coupled with Murton getting at bats over Barton and Brown and a possible stop gap if ellis leaves and a lottery ticket catcher. Sounds like I'm making up reasons for an argument.

As soon as a team like the Brewers sees its window for success opening, big-budget juggernauts like the Yankees and Cubs try to slam it shut. How depressing.

It's not like they went out and signed Clemens. They gave up talent that they developed in order to receive other talent they needed more. The Brewers are the one who acquired the expensive player. The Cubs acquired a guy who's been injury prone and cheap.

I think the odds are down to 30-35% they will keep Bedard now. They'll perceive there is a white-hot pitching market and approach a contender (St. Louis?) to take him.

I don't know what the scouting reports are for Harden, but if the Cardinals with their platoon of Murton- and Patterson-like prospects weren't willing to top this offer for Harden, then I can't see them chasing after Bedard. Harden would've been exactly what they needed, somebody to pitch good innings just long enough to bridge the gap until the hoped-for returns of Carpenter and Wainwright.

I would agree that Beane must be thinking that Harden is going down soon and he simply likes what he's getting here more than Gaudin. Only thing that really makes sense. He may well be wrong though, pretty risky letting Harden go for this when he may return to form and dominate down the stretch. Very unusual move, though great for the Cubs regardless.

Harden's velocity has been down, which is always ominous with his injury history, but the low price of Gallagher+ is certainly worth the risk.

Hendry's contention that this had NOTHING to do with the Sabathia trade, considering it came the very next day, obviously doesn't pass the smell test, though.

SF Chronicle:

A's general manager Billy Beane suggested that the A's recent spate of injuries - they've now used the disabled list 18 times, most recently for Eric Chavez, Keith Foulke and Bobby Crosby - was a motivating factor.

"The Cubs were pretty aggressive," Beane said. "(Cubs GM) Jim Hendry and I talk quite a bit anyway. We consistently had conversations over the past month; we came to an agreement this morning. They were looking for Rich is what they were looking for."

From the A's point of view, Gallagher was key to the deal. Beane said the A's have been following Gallagher's progress since he joined the pro ranks. He is scheduled to start for the A's on Friday.

"We've had numerous injuries," Beane said. "Guys have done a good job battling through it, but as far as what we're doing, this is a step forward for what we're doing for the next four or five years."

Supposedly Harden's fastball was flat and several miles slow in his last start?

As much as I'd personally hate it -- it would be kind of cool, in an objective NL Centric sort of way, if the Cardinals now went out and got Bedard.

What if the third-place team in the NL Central finishes fifteen games ahead of the winners of the NL West?

The members of the Free Matt Murton Club should be happy.

I read the deal and my first thought was, "That's not much to give up for Harden." Then I saw that Gaudin was in the deal too and thought "Whoa". I see that the Cubs took on all of Harden's salary as well.

The market for starting pitching definitely isn't what the sellers were expecting.

What if the third-place team in the NL Central finishes fifteen games ahead of the winners of the NL West?

The Reds, Pirates, and Astros would all be be 4 games or less back in the NL Worst.... hell - they'd all be within hailing distance in the NL Least, too.

Everything's coming up midwest, baby!

This is terrible, terrible. Sigh.

But don't you see what Beane's up to? This trade's not like the Haren trade; it's not about picking up a bunch of prospects. Beane expects Harden to break down any day now, and he's getting back two guys that can play decently in the majors right now (Murton and Marshall), and Eric Patterson might make a useful bench guy. Beane made this trade because he thinks he's upgrading his roster right now, for 2008.

Post of the thread.

I have to absorb this, but my initial reaction is very underwhelmed. I don't see the point in giving up a good swing man like Gaudin. I have no use for Patterson or Murton. The only think I can think of is that the A's have a man-crush on Gallagher. Ah well. The Rich Harden era ends with disappointment which was its dominant motif anyway.

86--ah, so 55 is insider Beane parody-snark? & I was gonna point out that the Gaudin throw-in kinda destroys this theory....

Gah. This is awful.

What if the third-place team in the NL Central finishes fifteen games ahead of the winners of the NL West?

Then they'll throw a parade?! There's no chance that this will happen.

I don't know what the scouting reports are for Harden, but if the Cardinals with their platoon of Murton- and Patterson-like prospects weren't willing to top this offer for Harden, then I can't see them chasing after Bedard.

Yup, which is why I phrased it as "approaching a contender." The M's upper management allegedly want Bedard off the team, because he's prone to begging out after 100 or so pitches and isn't gritting it out like an ace. Like Harden, he's got a cheap contract thru 2009, so STL or a similar mid-market team would not have to take on salary.

As far as Harden, it could be that Beane wasn't shopping him around to teams other than the Cubs. Or was he hiding his talks from Gammons and Robothal all this time??

As much as I'd personally hate it -- it would be kind of cool, in an objective NL Centric sort of way, if the Cardinals now went out and got Bedard.

With this move and the Brewers' move (and the rumors they're not done), if the Cardinals don't do SOMETHING - it's a three team scrum for probably two spots after all, not just one - I think there's going to be a lot of ticked-off Cardinals fans (not necc. the ones on here, but in general).

Whichever team(s) come out of the Central will have earned it.

I do wonder if Harden won't further stress the Cubs bullpen. After watching multiple seasons of Yost's "handiwork" generate second half bullpen issues I watch the usage very closely.

And Lou, like Ned with Torres, seems to be working Marmol pretty regularly.

The problem I run into this deal, like all "if you squint right, it looks ok" deals, is that you have to think you could have gotten more elsewhere.

That might be wrong however - maybe Minaya couldn't have gotten more for Milledge (ignoring that he's been awful), and maybe Beane couldn't have gotten more here.

Good God. Stand Pat Gillick strikes (out) again.

if the Cardinals don't do SOMETHING, I think there's going to be a lot of ticked-off Cardinals fans

Barry Zito is available for a wad of chewed gum. He would make for good Mulder-insurance.

Anyone know why Gaudin was moved from the rotation to the bullpen?


I do. He's not very good. Decent reliever is what he is, no great shakes otherwise.

Good trade for both teams. Cubs need strikeouts more than Oakland needs 'em, plus Oakland improves at 2 positions immediately. Murton means the Emil Brown era is thankfully over, and Ellis can move to third so Hanahan can be benched. Oakland picks up 2 better bats and a #3 starter for a #1/2 starter. That's what they need. Cubs get an improvement in their rotation which is what they need, although Harden's not gonna give the pen much rest, Gaudin's an extra body at least and the deal wouldn't get done with a bullpen arm going to the Cubs. Cubs get the best player in the deal, the A's get an overall better collection of talent the Cubs couldn't find spots for. (Patterson and Murton were in Lou's dohgouse and he never gave them a chance to get out. With the Cubs present talent, Lou didn't really need to give them a chance.)

And Lou, like Ned with Torres, seems to be working Marmol pretty regularly.

And it already shows. I'm personally lighting a candle for Marmol getting some sort of non-shoulder, non-elbow, non-arm injury... a stubbed toe or something to put him on the DL for a couple weeks.

Fortunately, Howry's turned things around -- and the Gaudin throw-in really helps.

I do wonder if Harden won't further stress the Cubs bullpen.

He would replace either Marquis (about 5 2/3 per start) or Marshall (not exactly an innings eater) so it won't really exacerbate the problem. The deal also adds Gaudin who, along with Leiber, is a second swingman type.

#97, are you being facetious?