Well, he loved the sound of his own voice even then. But if he can do PBP, maybe we can keep him out of public office. Too bad he's not at all likeable.

And he thinks A-Rod is a jerk.

And he thinks CHB is a jerk.

I like the way he speaks his mind to Dan.

Assuming his children are the right age, I think its cool that he plays with his children while he's on the road.

Also, of interest to me and possibly a handful of others, the game his company is developing is certainly intriguing. The MMO I just started playing had a budget of around $30 million and took over 4 years to develop. I would be interested to see the world that could be created with almost twice the budget.

JMP, what MMO game is that?

And Schilling is right: Playing games on the internet is better than getting in trouble in bars.

And what's this about Michael Holley apparently saying he "has it on good authority" that Schilling is "desperately out of shape?" (Of course, he was last year, too.)

Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, developed by two of the lead developers of the original Everquest. The game is huge, and the CEO of Sigil, developer of the game, said there were things he wanted to do but couldn't because he couldn't fit it in the budget. Knowing how expansive and detailed Vanguard is, and being able to dramatically add to the budget, would result in a game world that is hard for me to fathom.

I don't know that it much matters what shape Schilling might have been in at some dinner a month ago when somebody saw Schilling and told Holley about it. If he goes down to Verstegan's a month before spring training and gets in top shape in that time, everything's cool.

And Schilling is right: Playing games on the internet is better than getting in trouble in bars.

Not quite right, as we would go broke here.

general Q on Schill: Not atemtping to start flame wars, but looking for objective responses to something that puzzles me.

I've seen multiple writers/bloggers toss out one-liners, almost out of nowhere, about how much they despise him. What gives?

What I think I know: Schilling apparently likes to hear himself talk and is a spotlight hog. Those don't seem to be all that incriminating, given the activities and personas of a hundred other pro athletes. OTOH, I haven't heard that his teammates or management despise him; he's not one who folds in the clutch or begs out for a ingrown toenail; and he was one of the first few (he and Smoltzy?) who were bold enough to say that guys taking roids was a big problem. These are positives, no?

So can someone 'splain to me why he obviously rubs some people really far the wrong way? Is it personal, political, religious views? Some skeleton I'm unaware of?

Tom, it's political and religious mostly. Though most will shroud their hatred behind other rational.

Tom, it's political and religious mostly. Though most will shroud their hatred behind other rational.

Curses, foiled again! And we would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for your meddling.

"Roll 2d10 to save against groupies. Ooh, Schilling, '01' again, the groupies must remain in the hotel bar!"

"Tom, it's political and religious mostly."

No, it's cuz he's a ####### arrogant Yankee killer. At least Edgar kept his mouth shut about it.

"We played Dungeons and Dragons for three hours...then I was slain by an elf."
"Listen to yourself man, you're hanging with nerds."
"You take that back!"

Okay, so let me guess.. does that mean he is part of what most call the 'religious right'?

I wouldn't consider him part of the religious right. But certainly christian.

Other than the post '04 ALCS, I don't recall people making much of a deal of Schil's religiosity.

I don't dislike him, fwiw.

I cannot understand why I find MMORPGs to be at all fun, nor can I explain what you do in any sort of way that makes them even sound fun, but I almost always enjoy playing them.

These games have tapped into something psychological that makes them addictive like crack. Although I am surprised that anyone is still playing Everquest when they could be playing World of Warcraft.

These games have tapped into something psychological that makes them addictive like crack.

Didn't some kids in the 70's actually kill themselves when their D&D;player got killed? Of coarse this could be one of those "Mikey died by drinking coke with a bag full of pop-rocks in his mouth" things.

Didn't some kids in the 70's actually kill themselves when their D&D;player got killed? Of coarse this could be one of those "Mikey died by drinking coke with a bag full of pop-rocks in his mouth" things.

This is pretty much just an urban legend.

Wiki's not a perfect source, but this is a pretty good summary - Steam tunnel incident.

If Schilling is Christian, he is of a faith that has no objections to demonic monsters and pointy-eared witches. Like, maybe, Unitarian. That's about it. Maybe United Church of Christ. Couldn't be a fundie, though.

This is pretty much just an urban legend.

Thought so, but really don't drink coke and pop-rocks together I heard Mikey's last moments on Earth were not pleasant:)

WoW is crack. lv 69 now!

also, i like schilling. and i'm liberal. people saying that he's disliked for his politics or religion are just looking for a reason to feel persecuted/talk #### about liberals.

also, i like schilling. and i'm liberal. people saying that he's disliked for his politics or religion are just looking for a reason to feel persecuted/talk #### about liberals.

Actually scott, Vaux and Vortex said those were the exact reasons why they disliked him in a thread just last week. (I'm with you, however, as a lefty who likes Curt).

I do think there are other reasons why people have such an intense hatred for Schilling, though many of those reasons are equally silly.

Except that he said (the quote's in some other thread) that he expected the apocolypse to happen "in our lifetime."

That's a response to #23, BTW.

Here I go, getting into political discussions again. I'm going to close the computer and go do some work.
Yeah, that's the ticket!

Actually scott, Vaux and Vortex said those were the exact reasons why they disliked him in a thread just last week. (I'm with you, however, as a lefty who likes Curt).

So? I don't think V & V have proxy to speak for all Schilling haters.

So? I don't think V & V have proxy to speak for all Schilling haters.

I wasn't suggesting they speak for all Schilling haters, only that MHS's comment wasn't strictly a fantasy. There are people here who dislike Schilling because of his politics/religion.

"Roll 2d10 to save against groupies. Ooh, Schilling, '01' again, the groupies must remain in the hotel bar!"

Pssh. Everyone knows you make a save roll with a d20.

Pssh. Everyone knows you make a save roll with a d20.

Geek check!

Except that he said (the quote's in some other thread) that he expected the apocolypse to happen "in our lifetime."

All Christians should believe the apocalypse will come soon, since it says so in the Bible. Puts the fear of the seven-headed beast in ya. If he's taking that literally, he may be a fundie at that, but not necessarily. I still come back to what his pastor would say about this particular use of his time. I sure know what mine would've said. Lucky me, I don't have to listen to that B.S. any more.

I think Schilling is a RC. He does the sign of the cross, I think, before each first batter he faces in a game, and I believe that only Catholics do the sign of the cross, but I'm probably wrong.

MHS is mostly right, if Schilling was an outspoken secular progressive he'd be described as "thougthful", not "opinionated".

It is beyond me how a Sox fan over the age of 30 could hate Schill, or Yankee-hater of any age for that matter, but many seem to on this board. I suppose it is the left's tendency to think of the right as evil, especially an intellegent guy like Curt, and not simply misguided, that brings this on.

MHS would like to think that people dislike him due to his religious views and politics, but it's really cuz he is a jerk and has a crappy personality. And his looks. And the smell.

It is beyond me how a Sox fan over the age of 30 could hate Schill, or Yankee-hater of any age for that matter, but many seem to on this board. I suppose it is the left's tendency to think of the right as evil, especially an intellegent guy like Curt, and not simply misguided, that brings this on.

You're right. People who don't like Schilling think he's the spawn of satan.

People who cheat at their job, evade income taxes, maintain mistresses beyond the knowledge and consent of their spouses, threaten with physical harm their mistresses over the phone, lie to grand juries even after being granted immunity-those guys are jerks and have lousy personalities.

I disagree; I think most of those things (except "threaten with physical harm their mistresses over the phone") are independent of personality. Someone who's charming and friendly can evade their taxes just as well as a jerk. They'd probably be even better at lying to grand juries. Those things may speak to character, but they're mostly irrelevant to whether someone's a jerk.

Don't forget to mention getting caught cheating at your job and secretly bearing false witness against your own teammate.

I dislike Hitler. I'm ambivalent towards Frank Tanana.

People who say things that might rub you the wrong way from time to time are not jerks or have lousy personalities.

I agree with Monty -- IMO "jerk" doesn't mean "someone who acts immorally." It means having an abrasive, offensive personality. In theory, Mother Theresa could have been a jerk (and I'm sure there are plenty of "do gooders" who are annoying as hell in person). Of course, what exactly constitutes an offensive personality is a separate question.

Actually, I think there's a Nick Hornby book that addresses the question of "being" good vs. "doing" good. (I haven't read it.)

Actually, I think there's a Nick Hornby book that addresses the question of "being" good vs. "doing" good. (I haven't read it.)

Don't.

I think Schilling is a polarizing figure because he's so different from the typical modern athlete. When he talks to the press, he often says things the average fan would say. He clearly loves baseball the same way now as he did as a kid. He seems too much like a regular guy in a lot of ways, instead of playing the role of superstar. Some of the media, I'm sure, hate that Schilling does things like post on fan message boards and call into radio shows or his letters to the fans during the strike and right after 9/11.

Sure he's overbearing once in a while, and sometimes comes across as a self-promoter, but I think this is just a case of a guy who really wants to be the role model, and fit the behavior patterns that people say they want from star athletes - he goes out of his way to directly connect with fans, devotes a lot of time to a lot of charities, shows at least some awareness of and interest in public affairs and stays out of trouble.

Some people see this as Schilling trying to make himself look good in the public spotlight. And perhaps it is like that great quote Catfish Hunter had about Reggie Jackson - that Reggie was a great guy who'd give you the shirt off his back, only he'd call a press conference to do it. But even if that is true, I'd rather have a league full of guys like Schilling, who think that they're supposed to behave properly and give something back to the community than a league full of criminals.

I'm sure, of course, that there are also plenty of guys who give a lot back to the community and try to be quiet about it out of modesty. I'm not even sure which is better, though - a star player who lets kids know it's important to contribute to your community, or one who is modest.

Anyways, if Schilling were the worst guy in the league, the writers would have to focus on the games instead of scandals.

Is that the one where it's told in first person as a woman? I've purged that from my brain.

Excellent post, tjm1.

People who say things that might rub you the wrong way from time to time are not jerks or have lousy personalities.

Keep telling yourself that, Kevin.

I think Schilling is a RC. He does the sign of the cross, I think, before each first batter he faces in a game, and I believe that only Catholics do the sign of the cross, but I'm probably wrong.

He seems more born again than Catholic, but I dunno. There's all sorts of Catholics. I like him. He's a unique guy for an athlete. Keith Hernandez struck me that way, too, during his playing days.

I believe that only Catholics do the sign of the cross, but I'm probably wrong

Lutherans do, too.

WoW is crack

I've never played, but a couple of my friends started a couple months ago, and now it seems like all they ever want to do is play that game. It's really quite a bummer.

First of all, I doubt that very many people "hate" Schilling with the kind of intensity that kevin and Joey B. appear to hate Bonds with. Second, that's merely a subjective observation, not a value judgment or a criticism of anyone who might be described as hating either player. Third, I think that most of the people who supposedly hate Schilling really just find him generally annoying, rather than having specific issues with his political or religious views, and wish that he'd simply STFU and pitch.

He's not annonymous on the Net any longer . . . his user name is: MEIN KAMPF

And character is also central to personality. You seem to be adopting a "People Magazine" definition of personality, not what a psychologist would define it as.

I don't know how a psychologist would define personality, and I'm not sure how People Magazine got dragged into this. I think of personality as being less "what you do" and more "how you do it". Someone who's charming has a "winning personality" and someone who's rude and pushy doesn't, regardless of which of the two of them cheats at cards.

The relevant definition of "jerk" here seems to be "An unlikable person; esp : one who is cruel, rude, or small-minded"; again, being "cruel" or "rude" are independent of being a moral person.

It does seem like we're just using the word "personality" to mean two different things, though, so this probably isn't that productive a conversation.

Third, I think that most of the people who supposedly hate Schilling really just find him generally annoying, rather than having specific issues with his political or religious views, and wish that he'd simply STFU and pitch. don't like the Red Sox and want him to suck so that the sox lose more games.

Crack is whack.

OK, Gagne. Did you suddenly start to like him in 2005? Do you think that everybody loved him before he got traded to Boston?

I don't remember any Schilling hate when he was in Arizona.

Lutherans do, too.

Not any lutherans i know. maybe those common NYC lutherans?

I don't remember any Schilling hate when he was in Arizona.

In truth, I didn't really care about Schilling before he went to the Red Sox, and I actually liked him in 2004 (I thought the SOSH stuff was kind of refreshing). I began to get sick of him after the World Series -- after he became CURT SCHILLING, media god. Part of that wasn't his fault. I just got sick of all the bloody sock stuff.

if Schilling was an outspoken secular progressive he'd be described as "thougthful", not "opinionated".

Quite a few people took serious offense to Carlos Delgado's political position and criticized him. Any position (and even the lack of position, see ARod) will be criticized by the other side.

I didn't really care about Schilling before he went to the Red Sox

I like Schilling. I don't necessarily agree with some of his positions, but he's an interesting player to listen to even as you disagree. He obviously cares about the sport and the gaming stuff is a nice little way to feel less disconnected from an athlete (I found myself rooting for Glanville too because of the articles about his online gaming).

I was hoping at some point the Mets would get CS, but it never happened. I was also hoping that the Mets would never get DG, and that, we were lucky on.

Whiskeypedia on the sign of the cross.

I don't remember any Schilling hate when he was in Arizona.

You never asked Randy Johnson. Not that I'm sure I'd know which side to take in that smackdown, mind you.

i always thought the open letter after 9/11 was a bit presumptious.

"I don't remember any Schilling hate when he was in Arizona."

You didn't watch the 2001 World Series with me. It started with Aura and Mystique comment and he's just gotten worse ever since. I'd say he's my least favorite ballplayer now that Varitek sucks.

Say whatever you will about Schilling, but his wife is a MILF.

So can someone 'splain to me why he obviously rubs some people really far the wrong way?

I think he strikes a lot of people as being manipulative, two-faced and phony--the kind of guy who sucks up to the press by shitting on ex-teammates annoymously. Sort of like Mark Grace was seen. Also, Schilling talks to the media A LOT, even for a high-profile jock, and that annoys some people. The right-wing stuff may energize it in some cases, but I would assume that probably 3/4 of the guys in MLB are Republicans and most left-wing fans are aware of that on some level and generally don't give a #### about it if said jocks don't say much about it.

Tom, it's political and religious mostly. Though most will shroud their hatred behind other rational

That's paranoid ########. Todd Helton, for example, is a Christian right-winger. You see a lot of Helton-hate out there?

Mocking Sammy Sosa during the home run derby on ESPN, regardless of Sosa's transgressions, pretty much convinced me that he's an #######.

Gee, I'm glad I have tfbg and MHS around to explain why us secularist heathens don't like Schilling.

Here, I thought I didn't like him because of things like burying his head in a towel while Mitch Williams pitched, putting down his fellow Philly pitchers in the media, the stupid 9/11 letter, his making fun of Sosa's accent, etc etc etc. I thought all those things made me dislike him long before I became aware of him as a guy who was helping to reelect a pair of war criminals.

Good thing I've been set straight on that.

If Schilling is Christian, he is of a faith that has no objections to demonic monsters and pointy-eared witches. Like, maybe, Unitarian. That's about it. Maybe United Church of Christ. Couldn't be a fundie, though.

Seriously? People are this misinformed about Christianity?

Say whatever you will about Schilling, but his wife is a MILF

Soccer Player Wives > Baseball player Wives

My Wife >Soccer Player Wives > Baseball player Wives

The same should go for everyone else here!!

I like Schilling. I don't necessarily agree with some of his positions, but he's an interesting player to listen to even as you disagree. He obviously cares about the sport and the gaming stuff is a nice little way to feel less disconnected from an athlete (I found myself rooting for Glanville too because of the articles about his online gaming).

Glanville was routinely a great quote - he basically wrote Jason Stark's column for him for a few years. He also seems like one of the more interesting guys to have played in the majors, in terms of having done things that don't fit in with anyone's conception of a pro athlete. He got his degree from Penn in engineering (and actually was probably moved down on some teams' draft boards because of an incident where he missed a game when scouts were coming to look at him, because he was studying for finals). He now serves on the board of overseers of the engineering school there and runs a business building environmentally friendly houses.

If Schilling is Christian, he is of a faith that has no objections to demonic monsters and pointy-eared witches. Like, maybe, Unitarian. That's about it. Maybe United Church of Christ. Couldn't be a fundie, though.

Seriously? People are this misinformed about Christianity?

There are plenty of Christian sects and denominations whose doctrines very much frown upon RPGs, at least if they involve simulated magic, witchcraft, mythical creatures, and other things associated with paganism. Not every sect draws a hard line like that but there are religious tracts aplenty that declaim the evil influence of RPGs and fantasy literature in general.

And thank you to the posters of #70 and #72. It's not just about the politics or even mostly about the politics. If it were, then it'd be hard for anyone who was not a religious conservative to even be a fan of any American professional sports.

Darren is saying he should have confidence in his teammates... which I agree with... though with Mitch Williams...

I'd forgotten about the Mitch Williams thing...not a classy move.

I can't read this threads title without thinking about Rainier Wolfcastle's Woody Allen impression.

Schilling has a reputation as a manipulative, back-stabbing jerk. There isn't one particular incident that stands out, but I'm sure if you give his biggest critics a few hours to go through archives they could find 20+ different little things that put together form a pattern that's hard to ignore.

Also, anytime an anonymous Boston player says something negative about a teammate, the assumption here is that Schilling was the anonymous player because he has a history of being critical. That probably isn't fair to Schilling, but it does happen.

No problem Dar', you incredibly naive knucklehead, you!

See, for the tinfoil hat crowd, like our Tito hatin' Dar', conservatives aren't simply misguided, they are evil:

"a guy who was helping to reelect a pair of war criminals" =Schilling

Also, I wanted to add that I myself have mixed feelings about Schilling. Sometimes, he seems to be admirable and real. At other times, he strikes me as being as I described some folks' perceptions of him in #70: manipulative, two-faced and phony. The reality is probably that he is all of those things with other stuff the public and press don't see mixed in as well.