#204 just almost endangered my keyboard with chicken sandwich crumbs.

#204 just almost endangered my keyboard with chicken sandwich crumbs.

Yep. It took over 200 posts, but this thread finally found a winner.

Anyway, I'd like to improve my manliness quotient and actually find a beer that tastes good and I enjoy, any suggestions?

If you don't mind being taunted a little, you could always try out a shandy - basically a drink which is half-beer, and half lemonade, ginger ale, or ginger beer. I've never seen anyone drink one around here, but I've seen numerous people order them in the UK.

Using WARP their peak seasons are pretty close, but Henderson has a big edge when total career is taken into account:

Ricky Henderson..15.3, 13.2, 12.1, 10.7, 10.6.....189.9...350.6
Joe Dimaggio.....14.2, 13.5, 11.7, 11.7, 11.0.....121.9...281.3

FWIW, Bill James ranked Henderson as #4 in LF and Dimaggio as #5 in CF. Allen Barra raved about the CLipper's intangibles in a number of his books. Peter Handrinos said that that aspect of him was overrated and cited examples of him being a shitty teammate. But those were after the war, so it is possible that Joe D had good inatngibles before that and everything washes out.

The guys batting second, third, and fourth are going to have power up the wazoo, so there's no need to risk stealing bases or going first to third on a single.

Uhhhhh this really can't be accurate. It isn't like we're talking Adam Dunn or Ryan Howard here. Those 2nd, 3rd, and 4th guys didn't only ever hit home runs or hit them every time, come on now.

Uhhhhh this really can't be accurate. It isn't like we're talking Adam Dunn or Ryan Howard here. Those 2nd, 3rd, and 4th guys didn't only ever hit home runs or hit them every time, come on now.

If you are batting in front of Ted Williams, Barry Bonds, and Babe Ruth, your break even point for SB/CS is going to be like 95+% because of the SLG of those guys. Better to get the highest OBP you can in front of them and just totally ignore speed.

Better to get the highest OBP you can in front of them

So Rickey would still be a damn good choice then.

He'd be a damn good choice, but the Splendid Splinter is a crazy good choice. 81 pts of OBP on Rickey. 191 OPS+ to 127 OPS+.

So Rickey would still be a damn good choice then.

Sure, but there is that issue of Ted and Barry both being LFers and only one of them can DH. Great as Rickey was, you don't play him over either of them. You also aren't going to put Rickey in CF over Willie or Mickey.

the Splendid Splinter is a crazy good choice. 81 pts of OBP on Rickey. 191 OPS+ to 127 OPS+.

I don't think it's possible to actually make a case that Rickey's better than Ted, but Rickey's career OPS+ is being dragged down by the fact that he played forever. Williams never really had a decline phase - which is remarkable given that he played until he was 41.

Without getting into a steroid debate, is there a case to be made for Rickey over steroid-free Barry? Through age 34 (which is basically the end of Rickey's prime, through 1999 for Bonds), Rickey's OPS+ was 139 vs. 163 for Bonds. Is there any chance that Rickey can make any of that up? The problem is that everything you throw out as why OPS+ underrates Rickey - OBP-heavy OPS, the stolen bases, non-SB baserunning, fielding - is true of Bonds as well (moreso in some cases - fielding, especially, I'd think). Oh, and through age 34, Ted Williams had an OPS+ of 192. As I said, you can't argue that Rickey beats Ted; the only way to get Rickey onto the team is to make Williams the DH.

Uhhhhh this really can't be accurate. It isn't like we're talking Adam Dunn or Ryan Howard here. Those 2nd, 3rd, and 4th guys didn't only ever hit home runs or hit them every time, come on now.

I stand by my statement. The offensive advantage to Henderson over Williams is that Henderson can run (duh), but Williams will be on base more often (and off them more often thanks to home runs). I would not want my leadoff hitter risking making outs (by stealing bases, by trying to go from first to third on singles, etc.) given how infrequently the rest of the team makes outs and given how much power the rest of the team has. (Henderson's standing on second instead of first gives him no advantage when the next batter hits a triple or home run. Henderson's standing on third gives him no advantage when the next batter hits a double, triple or home run). Henderson's ability to steal any base gives him no advantage when Mike Schmidt is standing on second.

I'd be happy to have someone crank some numbers to convince me otherwise, but Williams has a TON more power (and will have runners on base because of how strong the lineup is) and even gets on base about 20% more often as well. Those advantages are worth a lot more than Henderson's speed to me.

(Which is why I'm always bothered by the "greatest leadoff hitter of all time" comments about Henderson. The reason he's the greatest leadoff hitter of all time is because Williams and Bonds and Ruth and others were also better third/fourth hitters and so they never batted leadoff. And yes, I know that it's intended as a comment about the type of hitter Henderson is, wherein so much of his value comes from "setting other hitters up," but it seems silly to me. Williams could have done a better job of "setting other hitters up." All he would have had to do was petition to be allowed to stop at third base on balls he hit out of the park -- I suspect the other teams would have been okay with this too, if not Williams's "set up" teammates).

I'd agree with this. I don't actually like Bud, and I would never buy it for my own consumption if given decent alternatives, but it's drinkable if the situation calls for it. It's certainly superior to Miller or Coors.

Disagree. High Life is the best cheap macrobrew out there, for my money. (It's the Champagne of Beers™, for god's sake...)

the only way to get Rickey onto the team is to make Williams the DH.

Even then, he'd be a backup to Bonds (and might not be worth taking still, depending on roster).

The non-pitchers on an arbitrary 25 man roster (with, for simplicity's sake, 10 pitchers).

I'll try to make sure I have one righty batter, one lefty batter for positions with multiple players.

Here's 14 players...

C: Gibson, Berra
1B: Gehrig, Pujols
2B: Hornsby, Collins
SS: Wagner
3B: Schmidt
U: Alex Rodriguez
LF: Bonds
CF: Mantle, Speaker
RF: Ruth
DH: Williams

I count 14 players there, room for one more. Among my options are...

Johnny Bench, Mike Piazza, Jimmie Foxx, Joe Morgan, John Henry Lloyd, Eddie Matthews, Stan Musial, Ty Cobb, Willie Mays, Oscar Charleston, Hank Aaron...

... and Rickey Henderson. Even assuming that I decide my 15th player has to be an outfielder, I'm not sure why I'd take Henderson over one of Cobb/Charleston/Mays, all of whom could pinch run for Williams or Schmidt or the catchers, all of whom could outhit Henderson, and all of whom (I believe) were better fielders. Henderson's biggest strength is his base-stealing, but it's wasted on a team that would seek to minimize base-running risks, confident in its ability to avoid outs and hit for power.

With a roster like that you wouldn't need mop-up men. You could go with an 8 man staff.

For my all time team.

C Country Club (40oz all taste bad but one is needed for every team)
1B Boddington's (Great taste, never too much head, milky texture)
2B Dos Equis Clara (two in the name, very drinkable, most interesting man in world prefers it)
3B Victoria Bitter (refreshing, good alcohol content, cool stubby bottle)
SS Coors Light (great drinkability necessary even if it's on the watery side)
LF Fat Tire (even though it's fat can still hang with the rest of the boys)
CF Hinano (good when it's hot out but also packs a punch)
RF Smithwick's (more serviceable than Guiness but in the same ballpark)
DH Guiness (Thick slow moving but with the right bartender you get the clover in the foam)
SP Tiger (lasts for a whole plane flight from LAX to Singapore)
CL Natty Ice (need something to put in the beer bong and finish you off)

I've done the 25 man before, but MLB only. It's not going to be the best 25 players, but I think it's the best team. I didn't go all out for the specialists ... think Rickey over Cobb (primary role: PR) and Ozzie or Maz over Morgan (glove for Hornsby) ... but I don't think the drop-off in the primary role is so great to forego the better all-around player. Bonds leads off.

Starters

C Bench
1B Gehrig
2B Hornsby
SS H.Wagner
3B Schmidt
LF Bonds
CF Mantle
RF Ruth
DH Williams

Bench: Musial (1B/LF/RF), Mays (CF), Cobb (PR/OF), Berra (C), A-Rod (SS/3B), Morgan (PR/2B)

SP: W.Johnson, Maddux, Clemens, Young, Seaver
Pen: R.Johnson, Pedro, Wilhelm, B.Wagner, Rivera

I don't think it's possible to actually make a case that Rickey's better than Ted, but Rickey's career OPS+ is being dragged down by the fact that he played forever. Williams never really had a decline phase - which is remarkable given that he played until he was 41.

The really impressive thing about Williams is that he put his career 191 OPS+ together despite missing 5 seasons from his prime (Age 24-26, 32, 33), and possibly his peak. He could very easily have retired with an even high OPS+.

I wonder, though... if you were putting together the all-time team, and thus literally had an entire batting order of guys like Ruth, Schmidt, Gehrig, etc. hitting behind him... would there be a "synergy effect" from hitting Rickey leadoff? i.e., with that kind of the power in the lineup behind him, the significance of Rickey's ability to get on base would be multiplied, and the significance of his power deficit relative to a Ted Williams would be decreased?

I do have to admit that any such effect still probably wouldn't make up the massive "basic hitting" difference between Rickey and Teddy. But, it'd at least help (as, of course, would speed and defense.)

I have no proof of such an effect, of course... nor am I quite sure why it even makes intutitive sense to me... but for whatever reason, it does.

I wonder, though... if you were putting together the all-time team, and thus literally had an entire batting order of guys like Ruth, Schmidt, Gehrig, etc. hitting behind him... would there be a "synergy effect" from hitting Rickey leadoff? i.e., with that kind of the power in the lineup behind him, the significance of Rickey's ability to get on base would be multiplied, and the significance of his power deficit relative to a Ted Williams would be decreased?

Even if you assume this is true, Williams and the other guys we are talking about playing over Rickey, were better at getting on base than Rickey.

SP: W.Johnson, Maddux, Clemens, Young, Seaver
Pen: R.Johnson, Pedro, Wilhelm, B.Wagner, Rivera

Question, DCA: If you were going to put Randy and Pedro in the pen, couldn't you think of two other starters who'd be better than Wilhelm or Wagner? Like Grove (who was often used in relief himself) or Koufax / Gibson, just to name three possible choices? I wouldn't be posing this if you'd listed five relievers, but you already broke the ice with Randy and Pedro.

Even if you assume this is true, Williams and the other guys we are talking about playing over Rickey, were better at getting on base than Rickey.

No, I understand that, I am just wondering if it makes Rickey less worse than them ;-)

Just after "the reliably ignorant taste buds of the American drinking public" comes "the reliably gullible American assumption all things Eurpoean are superior to American."

Stella is the Milwaukee's Best of Belgium. Also, Heineken is skunky and it says a lot that Heineken Light actually tastes better than Heineken. Check out the marketing of Carlsberg in Europe and then in the US.

Yeah, Carlsberg is absolutely horrible. You have to pay me to drink that swill. Disgusting. And Heineken is crap. But that doesn't mean that Coors etc isn't crap either.

And sure there are beer snobs who believe all American beer is crap, but there are also beer snobs that point out that there are widely available, and good American beers that are a match for most of the best European beers: stuff from Sierra Nevada, Sam Adams, Brooklyn Brewery.

If drinkability is an issue, then try a German lager, a helle type beer, or an American made German style lager.

175. BeanoCook Posted: January 14, 2009 at 05:23 PM (#3052148)
Any top cheese you recommend? How about a French cheese? I need some direction there.

For French cheeses, I like those in the Gruyere family: Gruyere, Comte, Beaufort. Since you mention that you like stronger tasting cheeses, I'd recommend Gruyere. Comte tends to be milder, with a more subtle taste. Though strictly speaking, Gruyere is not a French cheese, it is a Swiss AOC cheese; Beaufort and Comte are French though. Get the "reserve" version of Gruyere if you can; the longer it is aged, the stronger the taste. If you like really creamy cheeses, Beaufort is a good choice too. Unlike most of the Gruyere family, it is made with full cream milk.

Appenzell, Swiss, not French, is another similar cheese, with a distinctive flavour and aroma. The ones with a black label are aged the longest, a minimum of 6 months, followed by gold (4), and silver (3).

Nolan Giesbrecht Posted: January 15, 2009 at 12:39 AM (#3052441)
This must be about the fourth beer thread I've wandered through this past year here.

I've got a question for you all: I've hated every beer I've ever tried. Haven't tried a lot of beer, but every time a try I just find the alcohol overwhelming and bitter. My pet theory is that I taste alcohol stronger than most; my wife sometimes has trouble just picking out the alcohol in certain drinks that I find to have a very strong alcohol taste.

Anyway, I'd like to improve my manliness quotient and actually find a beer that tastes good and I enjoy, any suggestions?

Hmm. Hard to say. What are your other likes / dislikes taste wise?

For example, Young's double chocolate stout is often described often as chocolate / cocoa milk with alcohol. It depends on what you like. Do you like chocolatey stuff? Coffee? Or perhaps fruity tastes? You don't like the bitterness? Then you might need a beer that either isn't strongly hopped, or that has other strong tastes, malty (sweetness), chocolatey, etc, that balances out the bitterness.