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After a bit more consideration, I'll decide to wait and see. Would Dave Johnson want to manage the 2011 Nationals at age 67? Maybe he just needs a job after his retirement fund took a hit.
Squeebles squabble but they don't fall down, because they're on Segways.
slope
soft manure"
Outofcontextsmallsample
love you man
(After checking bbref) Whoops, forgot Dallas Green, Torborg, and two years of Art Howe. But those names only reinforce the point, I think.
You forgot Gil Hodges.
It's not even original. Johnson was hired to be an adviser for the Nats back in 2006, prompting some (brief) rumors that Frank would be pushed out for him. He apparently has no interest in managing again, or so Boswell says.
Not satisfied with ruining dozens of my midnight-ish posts, Jaffe decides to poke the bear with the Bobby V stick.
I ask this because that seemed to be one of the specific talents credited to Billy Martin in that profile of him.
IIRC, it was widely thought the real reason was that he didn't suck up to Peter Angelos enough.
I'm sure a lot of Johnson's problems are personality conflicts. The thing is twice he's been let go after taking a team into the playoffs (Cincinnati and Baltimore). The Mets and Dodgers you can sort of understand.
He was generally regarded as a good judge of talent. When he took over the Mets he benched 2B Brian Giles to play Wally Backman in a platoon, saying his on base percentage was too good to bench as Bamberger/Howard had (Torre earlier did play Backman). Howard Cosell went ballistic when he compared Backman to Eddie Stanky, which wasn't a half bad comparison. But he was way off the mark when he bragged to Mike and the Mad Dog on how he was going to turn Juan Samuel's career around. And I always wonder about the wisdom of having Gregg Jeffries learn to play second in the big leagues. But that was probably an organization mistake.
The two months before he got fired by the Mets, virtually every call to WFAN demanded he should be. I'm not saying I agreed with them, just saying. And Mets ownership is hyper over what their fans think.
He was believed to be a good judge of talent who could make good roles for his players. His most famous incident was putting Howard Johnson at shortstop when Sid Fernandez pitched. HoJo had no busines playing short, but Fernandez was an extreme flyballer who fanned his share of batters - D at short meant less when he pitched than any other pitcher out there. And HoHo was a big offensive upgrade over the normal shortstop.
HoJo also showed Davey's ability to get the most out of his hitters. He came to the Mets after being driven out of Detroit by Sparky Anderson, but Davey trusted HoJo, installed him, and let him hit. HoJo flourished.
Davey Johnson is also well thought of around these parts because his
Starting over from a working keyboard, here's the rest of my final thought:
Davey Johnson is also well thought of around these parts because his strategic tendencies mirror many widely shared sabermetric one. He wasn't one to bunt, and he absolutely detested intentional walks. In fact, according to my Tendicies Database his opposition to the IW was the most extreme tendency by any manager in MLB history. By that I don't merely mean that he opposed the IW more than any other manager (though he was the most anti-IW manager of them all), but his IW score veered further from average than any manager had in ANY category I churned through the Tendencies Database - and I churned through about 80 possible tendencies.
12 full seasons, 11 over .500, 4 over .600. 5 1st place, 6 2nd place, 1 3rd place.
M.A. in mathematics.
I think he wasn't actively looking to manage the last few years, otherwise he would have been hired.
Rats. I was hoping that this was some kind of extremely esoteric dick joke.
Besides the Orosco/McDowell game (caused by players ejected in a fight), he had one game in April 1984 when he used Rusty Staub in the outfield. Don't believe the b-ref listing of Le Grand Orange at 200 pounds, by the time he was 41 he was fat and used as a pinch hitter exclusively. The box score for the game against the Pirates shows him playing right but Davey alternated Staub left/right field depending on the hitter. When Rick Rhoden hit an opposite field fly ball to Staub, he chugged and chugged and chugged and caught the flyball.
What is a dicy, and is it better to have ten of them in your database than, say, five?
Indeed. I'd put Elster and Sasser in that group, too.
(EDIT) Okay, before I actually posted this, but I have to leave it in. Jesus Christ, I don't know where my perception of Elster got warped, but I thought of him as a dandy little hitting shortstop before shortstops hit much at all. Instead, he ####### sucked. Sasser was a better example than I had thought even, so there's some offset, but man.
(After checking bbref) Whoops, forgot Dallas Green, Torborg, and two years of Art Howe. But those names only reinforce the point, I think.
Torre?
This is what happens when a.) you get old and b.) a season so horrifying happens that it screws with your head.
Yogi Berra, too.
How could I forget Yogi managed the Yankees?
When Elster played/partied with the Mets, writers would drool over how his home runs were often in "big spots" and how he would hit better with men on base.
One thing that really hurt Johnson in his last two months was he kept trying to use Mike Marshall at first, acquired in the off season. Bud Harrelson did at first too and after Marshall was finally hurt for good two weeks into Harrelson's reign, he used Dave Magadan, who caught fire, as did the team. But Mets ownership had Johnson in its sights: they had fired third base coach Perlozzo and hitting instructor Robinson over the winter.
Johnson might have had the Yankee job in 1996 after Steinbrenner pushed Showalter out. But Torre came cheaper and George was very concerned with salary in that 15 minute period.
Westrum - 1.5 seasons after
Yogi - 1 season
Torborg - 2 seasons
Bamberger - 2 seasons
and then Torre and Davey.
So definitely my first statement was overdone. Yet still, let's take out Torre for a second. Davey has 7 years after, counting full seasons for both strike years. So the sum total of all post-Met managing aside Torre is 13.5 seasons for 14 managers (not counting Manuel, Torre, Cubbage, Parker, or McMillan.) But the guys coming in have generally been experienced.
Manager Pre W/Mets After
Stengel 21 4 0
Westrum 0 2 1.5
Hodges 5 4 0
Berra 1 4 1
Frazier 0 1 0
Torre 0 5 23
Bamberger 3 1 2
Howard 1 1 0
Johnson 0 6 7
Harrelson 0 2 0
Torborg 6 1 2
Green 3 4 0
Valentine 8 6 0
Howe 12 2 0
Randolph 0 3 0
Manuel 6 / /
Tot-Torre 60 38 13.5
(The above totals also exclude Manuel.)
Mgr Pre W/Tx After
Vernon 0 2 0
Hodges 0 5 4
Lemon 0 1 0
Willm. 0 4 0
Herzog 0 1 16
Martin 4 2 12
Lucch. 2.5 2 **
Hunter 0 1.5 0
Corrales 0 2 5
Zimmer 7 2 3
Rader 0 2 3
BobV 0 8 0
Kennedy 0 2 2
Oates 4 6 0
Narron 0 2 2
Show. 7 4 0
Wash. 0 / /
Tot-Wash 24.5 46.5 47
** - Eddie was hired elsewhere, just didn't last a full season.
He couldn't have hit much worse...Elster played 3.5 seasons with the Mets, excepting garbage time in 3 other seasons. Yearly OPS+ totals: 75, 87, 74, 89. Highest raw OPS was .669. And it's not like OPS underrates him offensively, he stole 10 bases in those years and got caught 6 times, and he posted two .280 OBPs, one .270, and the creme de la creme is .318. Just 1704 blackhole PAs: .224/.289/.346, 82 OPS+.
Oh, and he somehow managed to actually hit worse. Career 2 outs/RISP tOPS+ is 93. Late & Close, though...he could end up in the Hague answering for those numbers. Take the crap above and kick it down to the tune of a *73* tOPS+. .195/.272/.303 in 510 ABs. Good. God.
If you want find evidence of undermining, Riggleman's bench coach is former Seattle manager John McLaren. Riggleman served as McLaren's bench coach in Seattle before Mclaren was fired and Riggleman took over. This looks more like those cultures where a friend kills a dishonored man.
As a player, he was also known as Dave. I didn't noticed he became Davey until after he became a manager.
Isn't your table in 39 the list of Texas Rangers managers and where they worked before and after? How would Bobby V's years with the Mets not be included in the after-Texas total?
Johnson has been managing the national team and the Olympic Team, which he might have found more congenial than the tsouris associated with MLB.
He was always Dave on the cards. So was Davey Lopes, always "Dave." What grownup calls themselves Davey anyway. It's like Timmy or Jeffy. If ya wanna go that way, go with D-A-V-Y, without the E. Thatway you can be a seafaring legend or a 1960s maraca player.
I saw Elster hit a game-winning grand slam once. Sure, it was for AA Albany, but still.
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