Everybody and their cousin has been predicting Dave Bush to take a step forward in 2008. Over and over again I read how the Brewer defense was solely responsible for Dave's apparent struggles in 2007 and everything pointed to him bouncing back in a big way if the Crew's glovework improved just a small bit.

I didn't agree. And my reason can be captured in this statement.

David Bush is one stubborn son of a b*tch.

In 2006 Dave did a lot of good things. Pitched over 200 innings. Had a good strikeout to walk mark. Finished strong over the last two months. The big fly in the ointment?

First pitch issues. Dave surrendered 10 home runs on the first pitch and an overall .661 slugging percentage. Bush was adamant about "getting ahead" of the batters so he would repeatedly put his 88 mph fastball down the middle of the plate and over time opposing hitters, who clearly paid attention to their advance scouts, said a silent "hurrah" and took him deep.

So 2007 rolls around and Bush talks about mixing things up, not falling in love with this pattern and be willing to show batters something different on the first pitch.

And the situation got worse.

In 2007 Dave's homer total fell on the first pitch but his batting average went from .372 to .439. As for the power, it was just a tradeoff from homers to doubles as the isolated power was still over .200.

Now you could attribute some of that defense but still over two years time Dave Bush gave up 88 hits in 219 at bats. That's a .401 batting average.

Jeff Suppan in many ways a less capable Dave Bush. He can't strike guys out like Bush. He lives on the edges. If anyone had a claim for living or dying on his defense it's a Jeff Suppan. And he has never given up no .401 batting average on the first pitch. In fact, Jeff did better in 2007 with the dreadful Crew defense than he did in the previous two seasons in front of the leatherpalooza that was the Cards defense.

Dave Bush seems like a smart kid. Keeps himself in great shape. Works hard.

But godd*mn unless someone pounds some sense into that lad and right quick he's bound for a lifetime of Greyhound buses and checking the DL list.

Smarten up David! Waste a pitch every now and again. It's ok!!!

Gabe Gross traded to TBay, Bush sent to minors. Are we actually to believe that JP Riccardi has finally won the Overbay deal

Bush certainly has his share of struggles, but this was not the right move.

The Brewers should be concerned with removing themselves possession of Turnbow or McClung before removing Bush from the 25-man. These are 2 jokers that can't even pitch in a close game, unacceptable when you are a contender. Bush, a strike thrower, is what this bullpen needs.

Sure he has issues, but Bush is certainly better than more Turnbow.

Post 3:

Agreed.

But that is d*mning with faint praise.

It does baffle me that the team saw fit to keep Turnbow when it's clear to anyone that the manager doesn't trust him. And when given the chance Turnbow looks even more lost than he did to finish last season. Which in of itself is pretty incredible.

Turnbow needs to find a therapist. And soon....................

I think mlbtraderumors.com made a good observation the other day. They commented that there have been (X-more)-forget exact figure) DFA so far this year, by a lot, than previous seasons.

They surmised that perhaps it is because teams are valuing prospects more than ever and are very unwilling to deal even a fringe prospect for guys with some value like (D Johnson, Vargas, J Castro, etc..)

Maybe Melvin is trying too hard to deal Turnbow or McClung. Or he realizes better than I do that the alternatives are terrible and he is terrified.

Bush out of the pen couldn't be all that bad. The Brewers need strike throwers. I'd rather the D butcher the ball in the field then walk, then wild pitch the winning run in.

I don't know. Overbay has to sort of slug over 350 to make this deal won by the Jays.

The Brewers should be concerned with removing themselves possession of Turnbow or McClung before removing Bush from the 25-man. These are 2 jokers that can't even pitch in a close game, unacceptable when you are a contender. Bush, a strike thrower, is what this bullpen needs.

Turnbow and McClung are not comparable. McClung is the last guy on the staff/multi-inning guy for when the starter leaves early. He's shown signs of the light bulb going on recently (horrible 0-2 pitch to Helms aside), but either way, McClung's current spot isn't exactly going to decide the Brewers' fortunes one way or another.

Bush throws a lot of strikes, but as a starter, he's not exactly Maddux - he doesn't have the greatest command and throws far more than his share of "bad" strikes when he misses his spots.
While I've advocated Bush to the pen for some time, I can see the rationale for demoting him right now as a short-term move: the option situation, the way they can keep Bush, as a starter, shadowing Sheets in case the latter's soreness continues, and the way it buys more time on Turnbow (and to a lesser extent, McClung)

Bush is a good illustration of a guy who has good control but bad command. I still think it's pretty ridiculous that he's in Nashville and Derrick Turnbow is in permanent timeout in the big leagues, wasting everyone's time.

Turnbow and McClung are not comparable.

I'm not sure I said they had the same role, anyone that follows this team knows McClung is billed as some mop-up long man. But their crappiness is certainly comparable. Neither is better than Bush, and Bush could easily fill a mop-up, long man role.

As far as "signs" McClung is turning a corner. I don't see what you are talking about. He just lost the game the last time he pitched. Also, keeping an arm around just because you might get something special out of it is what losing teams do. That is a luxury. A contender does not have room on the roster, or time, to waste on a guy that has to figure things out.

This auditioning of arms is a holdover from the losing years of previous Milwaukee teams.

All of the talk about options is driving me nuts.

Last year, your typical fan didn't know a thing about it, now you have Joe Fan talking about options like they are really that important in the case of a crappy player. Options are something to worry about when you have a talented player worth keeping. Turnbow and McClung should be cut. There is a good chance they go unclaimed anyway. But who cares if they are lost. That is a good thing.

Actually, I don't think the team views McClung as a long man. Well, maybe they do currently, but they definitely want him to become a flamethrowing setup guy. Melvin was on the radio the other day talking about how McClung's ultimate role had yet to be determined.

#11 I agree with you. But NTN is enforcing this notion the Brewers media has pedaled that McClung is some long man. I agree a perfect world is a set up guy. My comments were in reference to NTN's assertion that McClung is a multi-inning guy.

Either way, both McClung and Turnblow are hurting this team bad.

But NTN is enforcing this notion the Brewers media has pedaled that McClung is some long man.

Well, let's see how Mr. McClung has been used this season, shall we?

Apr. 5:
Comes in the sixth inning in relief of Bush, pitches 1 2/3 innings

Apr. 9:
Comes into the eighth inning with Brewers down 7-3, pitches 2 innings

Apr. 17:
Comes in the fifth inning (when Parra lasts only four innings), pitches 3 innings

Apr. 22:
Comes in the 12th inning, after all other non-Turnbow relievers used, finishes game and pitches 1 inning (MIL scores in 12th)

Apr. 27:
Comes in the 10th inning, with only Shouse available amongst non-Turnbow relievers, finishes game and pitches 1 inning (allows winning run)

So three multiple-inning appearances, and two single-inning appearances that came in extra innings.
So why am I wrong to contend they're using him as last-guy-in-the-pen/multiple-inning guy again?

A contender does not have room on the roster

If they carry 14 pitchers, they do.

I don't think you're wrong, I'm just saying that they may move him out of the role if he establishes himself. He doesn't have "long man" tattooed in Gaelic on his forearm. As such, Dave Bush: Long Man and Seth McClung could possibly coexist in the bullpen, depending on how much progress the team things McClung has made.

I don't know how easy it is for some guys to go from the rotation to the pen and back to the rotation. The Brewers may prefer that Bush go to the minors and remain a starter for insurance against the likely injury in the rotation, while McClung and Turnbow just continue to be the very bottom of the pen.

I don't know how easy it is for some guys to go from the rotation to the pen and back to the rotation. The Brewers may prefer that Bush go to the minors and remain a starter for insurance against the likely injury in the rotation, while McClung and Turnbow just continue to be the very bottom of the pen.

RTFA:

"Odds are it's going to be a very, very short stay down there," said Yost. "We'd rather him pitching on his regular rotation than sitting and not pitching in a long role.

Good thing you hosers on the interwebs know pitchers better than these guys.

Er, the quote says the same thing as you did.

So why am I wrong to contend they're using him as last-guy-in-the-pen/multiple-inning guy again?

First of all pal, I never even brought this up. You claimed I said something comparing the two (Turnbow/McClung), and went on about their roles on the pen.

Then I clearly said, I'm not sure I said they had the same role, anyone that follows this team knows McClung is billed as some mop-up long man.

I can add that indeed McClung has been used as a long man. But that doesn't change the fact that McClung is being kept around because if he can, in your words, "He's shown signs of the light bulb going on recently, or in other words, turn it around, he would become a set up guy or much more than a mop up guy, in a perfect world.

Can we move on already? This is such a stupid debate. Nobody is disagreeing on this point. What is up for debate however is the suckiness of Turnbow and McClung. How about you start defending McClung/Turnbow as a pitcher on the roster of a contending team?

"Odds are it's going to be a very, very short stay down there," said Yost. "We'd rather him pitching on his regular rotation than sitting and not pitching in a long role.

And where is the follow up question? What the hell does "odds are" mean? Is Yost saying one of the current 5 starters will be removed for Bush next week?

I get the impression that they sent him down to simply kill time, say on some type of program, while they keep attempting to convince some stupid club to part with a player or asset for Turnbow or McClung, all before they do the inevitable and cut one of those bastards.