We think the tipoff for people being angry was the “basement” line. Everyone’s a little tired of that line.

Yes, well, that might have lapsed a bit into cliche.

Yeah, some of us live in our mother's attic, a la Mike Seaver.

Yeah, some of us live in our mother's attic, a la Mike Seaver.

Oh my freakin god. Are you the biggest idiot ever? Greg Brady is the PATRON FCUKING SAINT of living in your parents attic. Keep it straight.

Greg Brady: Attic
Fonzie: The small apartment over the garage
Oscar: The garbage can on Sesame Street

I hope I've helped someone here today.

(Sorry. My head just really hurts today.)

And Norman Bates' Mother in the cellar, but only for a short while.

Matt Foley: Van down by the river

A sports broadcaster, lapsing into cliché? Unthinkable.

...and I’ve recently been looking more at your site since your book came out...

Ah -- book first, THEN blog. Profit!

Fonzie: The small apartment over the garage

I always thought Fonzie was the patron saint of having an office in a men's bathroom.

Fonzie: The small apartment over the garage

I always thought Fonzie was the patron saint of having an office in a men's bathroom.

Also of being the creepy old guy hanging out with the high school kids at the local malt shop. Fonzie contains multitudes. He is we. We are he.

Henry Winkler was old. Fonzie was like 19.

My commentary was aimed solely at a portion of Internet sports discourse, an unfortunately large portion, that consists of nothing more than potshots, ad hominem arguments, ignorance and invective.

And the difference between those people and commentators in the mainstream media would be...?

Besides, I would put the signal-to-noise ratio of the "Internet sports discourse" up against that of the mainstream media any day of the week, and twice on Sunday. I doubt it would be much of a contest.

Henry Winkler was old. Fonzie was like 19.

Was he? I honestly have no recollection of how old he was supposed to be. He was the manifestation of all our hopes and dreams and so carried a quality of agelessness as sure as if he had been carved from marble. Born from the aether only to slip into the aether of our ruined ambitions, this, gentlemen, was The Fonz to me, and to you, and to all who will tread briefly on this world in search of teenage snatch and the ability to command machines with only our fingers and our too, too large hearts.

Seriously, me head is raging today. It's my fault for drinking Irish whiskey instead of Scotch. Stupid freakin holidays.

And the difference between those people and commentators in the mainstream media would be...?

Besides, I would put the signal-to-noise ratio of the "Internet sports discourse" up against that of the mainstream media any day of the week, and twice on Sunday. I doubt it would be much of a contest.

I think you'd lose. I think Costas is conflating all internet comments into one group, which they clearly aren't. But if you compile all the message boards there are tons that really aren't anything more than incomprehensible gibberish and obscene insults. These are, ironically, often associated with MSM outlets. My guess is this is what Costas has read and it's turned him off. I doubt he's sent significant time on a board such as this one or any of the other fine outlets. Thus, he forms an opinion. My feeling, and it's no more than that, is that the best of the internet outlets is better than most MSM outlets. But the worst is far worse and there is a lot of it.

I honestly have no recollection of how old he was supposed to be.

You may recall in the first season that he did try going back to high school, if ever so briefly. (A pigeon crapped on his crib notes.) So he couldn't have been that old.

My commentary was aimed solely at a portion of Internet sports discourse, an unfortunately large portion, that consists of nothing more than potshots, ad hominem arguments, ignorance and invective.

He's still a douche bag.

What does ad hominem mean?

What does ad hominem mean?

It's a Ralph Kramden quote.

Bravo, 15. Bravo.

You may recall in the first season that he did try going back to high school, if ever so briefly. (A pigeon crapped on his crib notes.) So he couldn't have been that old.

I was a bit young for the first seasons, so I mostly just remember the stuff right before Richie joined the army. My Fonzie t-shirt was my favorite article of clothing when I was in 1st grade, though.

consists of nothing more than potshots, ad hominem arguments, ignorance and invective.

Hmm, how many MSM sportswriters could we name whose work fits this description?

Also of being the creepy old guy hanging out with the high school kids at the local malt shop. Fonzie contains multitudes. He is we. We are he.

Fonzie might have been the first, but Wooderson was the best. alright, alright, alright

I think Fonzie actually killed Chuck Cunningham and took his place a la Martin Guerre.

consists of nothing more than potshots, ad hominem arguments, ignorance and invective.

Hmm, how many MSM sportswriters could we name whose work fits this description?

Wouldn't be easier just to list those who don't?

It also strikes me now...I bet Bob Costas freakin worshipped The Fonz. You know he did. You all know it!

I think you'd lose. I think Costas is conflating all internet comments into one group, which they clearly aren't.

It's true that there's a distinction between the comment sections of MSM outlets, and places like BTF, BP, The Hardball Times, etc. But...

But if you compile all the message boards there are tons that really aren't anything more than incomprehensible gibberish and obscene insults.

...I don't know why you think MSM writing or sports talk radio is any different from this on content. The language may be cleaner, the words more refined, and the grammar better, but the overall content level is exactly the same: insults, baseless assertions, lack of logic, and character attacks. Deeper and more reasonable thoughts occasionally sprinkled in.

And I find it humorous that Costas complains about "potshots, ad hominem arguments, ignorance and invective"... just days after saying that bloggers "from their mother's basement... are who they are, and they're a pathetic get-a-life loser."

I was a bit young for the first seasons, so I mostly just remember the stuff right before Richie joined the army.

Richie joined the army? Holy moly, I didn't know that. And that doesn't sound "happy".

I bet he grew up to be John Kerry.

And since the numerator in the MSM signal to noise ratio approximates zero (negative if you include Jim Rome), no matter how much noise there is on the internet, the internet wins hands down.

One thing is certain. If Ted McGinley guestblogs for you, your blog has jumped the shark.

I dunno. Sports talk radio is slightly better than the situation I found myself in at an airport last weekend, trapped in a small space with Doris Kearns Goodwin on TV opining about whether John McCain had too much of a hot temper to be President. I lost about one IQ point for every fifteen seconds of talk.

I dunno. Sports talk radio is slightly better than the situation I found myself in at an airport last weekend, trapped in a small space with Doris Kearns Goodwin on TV opining about whether John McCain had too much of a hot temper to be President. I lost about one IQ point for every fifteen seconds of talk.

God how I can't stand the mindless chatter of political pundits both Dem and Repub. It makes me long for a monarchy. I wish Fonzie would snap his fingers and make them all mute.

Once again...

Biggest fan, right here

One of the main problems with sports talk radio -- there's not enough time in the day to list them all -- is that they cycle through so many callers that there is no way to carry on any sort of meaningful discussion with any one caller. 30 seconds is simply not enough time to even begin to scratch the surface of an issue, even if the hosts and callers are intelligent (and I don't know how the hosts can be expected to speak intelligently on the entire universe of college sports and pro sports, including specific team/player/organization issues, and business/marketing/broadcasting issues, etc., in the first place).

30 seconds is simply not enough time to even begin to scratch the surface of an issue.

Well, when the issue is "Thanks, Biff, long-time, first-time. Anyway, don't you think the Reds should trade Griffey for Upton, Kazmir, and Crawford? I mean, why can't they get that done?"

God how I can't stand the mindless chatter of political pundits both Dem and Repub. It makes me long for a monarchy. I wish Fonzie would snap his fingers and make them all mute.

You are confusing Fonzie with Mork from Ork. Mork could make people silent by pointing his finger. He beat Fonz in the finger versus thumb showdown, and Fonz would have had to go to Ork if Richie didn't wake up.

Once again...

Biggest fan, right here

I'm blushing, you. It's this kind of overtly homoerotic behavior is exactly why Bob Costas hates blogs. He prefers to hang out with men's men, like Jay Mariotti and John Clayton.

Yeah, some of us live in our mother's attic, a la Mike Seaver.

Oh my freakin god. Are you the biggest idiot ever? Greg Brady is the PATRON FCUKING SAINT of living in your parents attic. Keep it straight.

Nuts to both of you. The correct answer is Hugo and then Bart.

The Fonz was a proto-Wooderson. His advanced age was unspoken because they feared him.

You are confusing Fonzie with Mork from Ork. Mork could make people silent by pointing his finger. He beat Fonz in the finger versus thumb showdown, and Fonz would have had to go to Ork if Richie didn't wake up.

Both were much more powerful than Richard Mulligan's character on "Soap", who would do the double snap thing across his chest and become convinced that he was invisible.

Both were much more powerful than Richard Mulligan's character on "Soap", who would do the double snap thing across his chest and become convinced that he was invisible.

But didn't he set the world's record for dribbling a basketball continuously, breaking Sleepy Floyd's once-thought-to-be insurmountable record?

Heh "Shooty", I might actually have some time for diamondmind tonight. Interested in being reduced to a mindless chatterer of invective and ignorance?

It just seems so often that commenters use insults in the place of arguments. Is there a lot out there that's also well-written? Or course. But forgive me for not placing the exact same value on an comment on a political blog that I would to something said by Ted Koppel.

So, is this genuine confusion, arrogance, or a way to blow off blogging? It seems that a lot of MSM take this view that a blogger and its commentors are one and the same. I read and comment here, but I don't ever write a piece that I would consider a blog, but under Bob Costas view (and others in the MSM), I'm a blogger. It just seems to me that the MSM uses commentors opinions as a way to discredit blogs and bloggers. Which again, seems to be a way to discredit the audience and say their opinion doesn't matter.

Heh "Shooty", I might actually have some time for diamondmind tonight. Interested in being reduced to a mindless chatterer of invective and ignorance?

Sure, if your mama will let you out of the basement long enough to play. Shoot me an e-mail with the particulars.

OMYGOD! I HAVE A DATE WITH GAELAN! But he won't get to first base if he starts knocking on DIPs again.

Sure, if your mama will let you out of the basement long enough to play. Shoot me an e-mail with the particulars.

OMYGOD! I HAVE A DATE WITH GAELAN! But he won't get to first base if he starts knocking on DIPs again.

I feel a song parody coming on. Hmm, Joe Cocker-style, thank you.

He came in through the basement window
Detected by his laptop's glow
And though he thought he knew the answer
He just stole it from his BPro

I like to think that when somebody like Costas goes off on "blogging" and "bloggers," what they're really responding to are the message boards on Yahoo and ESPN. The Yahoo rumors have a particularly interesting formula in which a "rumor" is posted that is absolutely the most ridiculous thing anyone has ever heard. This is followed by Post 1: obscenity, Post 2-5: claims to be "first" to respond, Posts 6-10: discussion on the idiocy of claiming "first." Somewhere around Post 30 you get an observation that the initial story, the "rumor," is tripe, and a "why are we even talking about this." When, in fact, nobody really has been.

ESPN is actually worse. Formula: Person 1 makes some sort of soft and meaningless homer claim like "Joba could be the next 30-game winner" and then Persons 2-30 point out how making a comment like that on a message board is implicit evidence of a fundamental "character flaw" in Person 1, often related to the person's mental development or sexual orientation.

That's my take on it anyway. And if you disagree with me, you're an #######.

OMYGOD! I HAVE A DATE WITH GAELAN! But he won't get to first base if he starts knocking on DIPs again.

I have a doubleheader tonite of 1937 goodness. Zeke Bonura waving his glove at grounders, Mel Ott hitting homers right down the foul line, Stan Hack not living up to his name and taking pitches; good stuff.

And if you disagree with me, you're an #######.

Let me be the first to say you're a flaming retard.

Stan Hack not living up to his name and taking pitches

Does he also not live up to his name by refusing to kill people with an axe?

Let me be the first to say you're a flaming retard.

Now, nobody's gonna hurt anybody's feelings. We're gonna be like three little Fonzies here.

Let me be the first to say you're a flaming retard.

Typical blogger, thinking you're the first to point that out.

It’s a generational thing, though. I would do well to download music, but that’s just not something I do. It’s not my natural first impulse. I still love to pick up a newspaper in the morning.

Sorry Shorty, I'm basically Costas' age and use the web to the virtual exclusion of actual dead-tree newspapers. Harveys and a few others here are older still. Try another excuse because this isn't a generational thing, it's a personal failing.

I'm so glad that I can catch KNBR in SF. Far and away the best sports talk around. Good hosts, not too much call in stuff, except for the 7-10 show, but I'm not usually listening then. Like the afternoon drive of Ralph Barbieire and Tom Tolbert. Smart guys and they range far afield.

Hey, I just looked it up, I'm older than Costas by 9 months. GET OFF MY BLOG, KID!
I do like the tactile experience of a newspaper or a book, though. And downloaded music doesn't have the fun of holding a brand-new record album. Not that e-forms of music aren't way cool and have lots of advantages.

Fiftieth!

We're gonna be like three little Fonzies here.

Cool?

I won't buy a newspaper unless I am using public transportation, but I will read one if it is lying around a bar or restaurant.

Does he also not live up to his name by refusing to kill people with an axe?


AFAIK, Marty Bergen was the only axe murderer in baseball history.

That's right. Cool.

AFAIK, Marty Bergen was the only axe murderer in baseball history.

Garvey.

Hack also never infiltrated his opponents' computer systems, so really, the whole thing is just weird.

Maybe Hack just had a really persistant, nasty cough?

It’s a generational thing, though. I would do well to download music, but that’s just not something I do. It’s not my natural first impulse. I still love to pick up a newspaper in the morning.

Sorry Shorty, I'm basically Costas' age and use the web to the virtual exclusion of actual dead-tree newspapers. Harveys and a few others here are older still. Try another excuse because this isn't a generational thing, it's a personal failing.

Gee, that's the standards for determining if something a generational thing - if you can find one or two guys who go against the grain, there's no generational thing going on?

Back in the 1950s, you could find a few stray middle-agers who liked some of that rock'n'roll music. You can find a some older types that like rap. Heck, by these standards, few things (if anything) are generational things. As is, the older a person is, the less online they are, and the more comfortable they are getting their news from the paper.

And "a personal failing?" Jeez, I wasn't aware reading a print copy of a newspaper vs a hard copy told us so much about a person's moral worth.

AFAIK, Marty Bergen was the only axe murderer in baseball history.

J.R. Phillips should have been. He had the perfect swing for it.

Hack also never infiltrated his opponents' computer systems, so really, the whole thing is just weird.

Anything about phlegm, maybe?

We're gonna be like three little Fonzies here.

Cool?

/punches MP3 player

/shakes hand, eyes well up

/goes to get some ice

Gee, that's the standards for determining if something a generational thing - if you can find one or two guys who go against the grain, there's no generational thing going on?

90% of the guys I know who are my age are more internet savvy than Costas appears. In businesses where information and analysis are important it's close to 100%. Costas would seem to be in an information critical business yet he's made no effort to incorporate new information sources and systems into his game. There is a generational thing going on here but it's not 50-55 year olds in information driven businesses.

And "a personal failing?" Jeez, I wasn't aware reading a print copy of a newspaper vs a hard copy told us so much about a person's moral worth.

IMO,it is a personal failling to not even attempt to incorporate blogs annd alternative sorces of information and analysis into your world when you are a paid professional in the information business. Costas is articulate, charming and likable. He's chosen, by ignoring huge parts of the available information out there and using the internet as just a different way to read the MSM, to skate by on those strengths instead of staying current and adding more substance to his work. THAT is a failing.