I'm very interested in seeing some numbers on how common situations like this are. What percentage of CPS-abducted kids are actually from abusive households?

But we surely aren't talking about this particular child's situation any more. It was a jumping off point to debate the merits of foster care. You can't fairly compare foster care homes to "typical" homes. You should compare foster care homes to dysfunctional homes, homes that make foster care necessary.

Well I am, and Dizzy is, and so are others. Cause frankly, the larger subject is uninteresting. Of course foster care is better than an abusive home. That doesn't mean it's some benign, neutral situation where it's no worse than an average home, and thus it is OK to err on the side of caution and house every kid there until it can be determined that the parents are fit. That's what some here are implying. Someone said he would rather put 10 children in foster care needlessly than have one truly at risk child fall through the cracks. That is simply wrong, wrong, wrong. It is the complete opposite of the very basis of our legal system where it is better to let 100 guilty go free rather than lock up one innocent.

Getting back to Leo...

Apparently it would be legal for him to have his Mikes lemonade in Ohio. I didn't know that. It's quite possible ushers at the Jake don't know that either. Maybe even the first responder cops wouldn't either. I mean, a 7 year old sipping booze? Can't be legal, right.

Now, suppose it was legal in Michigan. I think it is quite possible the kid would still have ended up in foster care. The system is so springloaded to err on the side of caution, and the attitudes of many here seem to support that notion, is that all it takes is an allegation of wrongdoing from someone in an official capacity:

The father, not knowing Mikes lemonade has alcohol, gets one for his son.
The usher, seeing this and not knowing it is legal, confronts the father
The father confesses he didn't know
The usher, suspecting abuse or neglect calls the cops
The cop, being primed by the usher that the father is negligent and possibly abusive, takes custody, orders the kid to the ER, and reports to CPS.
CPS, once receiving an official complaint, must follow through with their inflexible procedures and the kid winds up in foster care for committing a legal act.

True story:

A few years ago, we had some friends over for dinner and pinocle. At the time, they had a daughter ~ 1.5 years old. Ours was 15 months at the time. Sometime during the evening, we heard their daughter cry out. We found her in the bathroom with an open jar of Vics Vapo rub in her hand and a little bit on her lips. The mother immediately called poison control. She was informed that it could be harmful if she swallowed a large amount and she should be brought to the ER. Meanwhile, the rest of us found that she had just a little on her lips, none in her mouth, and she didn't swallow any, let alone a large amount. So the mom called poison control back, said all was well, she didn't put any in her mouth, and she would not be going to the ER. Poison control informed her that she must report to the ER, and if she didn't, they would dispatch a police unit with a CPS rep and take the child.

Now, I'm not comparing a trip to the ER with removal to foster care. It was more like a very expensive inconvienence. But much like the episode in which Jerry couldn't return the jacket because he said spite, once we called poison control, we couldn't unring the bell.

Well I am, and Dizzy is, and so are others. Cause frankly, the larger subject is uninteresting. Of course foster care is better than an abusive home. That doesn't mean it's some benign, neutral situation where it's no worse than an average home, and thus it is OK to err on the side of caution and house every kid there until it can be determined that the parents are fit. That's what some here are implying.

I hope you aren't including me in that group.

The only instances I could find in the thread attacking foster care came from DMN...twice. "Foster care is bad." "Foster care is unsafe." He may have been talking specifically, as compared to the care the father provided his son, but I would bet dollars to donuts DMN's dissatisfaction with foster care stems from government involvement, as I alluded to upthread.

I'd be interested in hearing what alternative to foster care he might offer?

it would have been MORE than reasonable, once the poor kid had got dragged into the ER, to let the kid go home after the ER doc said the kid was fine - and then just do a routine investigation instead of reasoning that if a man doesn't read the label on a bottle of lemonade that the kid's life is in danger and needs to get his little self took away...

Yes, if it even gets as far as the ER. Imo, it's the cop's job to check out the incident while at the Stadium, consider the father's attitude, and if he's contrite, let him and his son go then follow up with a referral to the CPS. That's as intrusive as this kind of thing should get, assuming the father's professed ignorance of the alcoholic content of the lemonade is convincing.

Poison control informed her that she must report to the ER, and if she didn't, they would dispatch a police unit with a CPS rep and take the child.

I take it you're not kidding. For the parents to not be able to call back and say, no, we've checked and it's nothing serious, and have it end there, is amazing.

I take it you're not kidding.

No, I'm not. The mother had to go to the ER and spend about 4 hours and a couple of hundred bucks for nothing, under threat from the state.

I'm not criticizing your friends, but were I certain my child was safe I wouldn't have been able to go to the ER. I'd have been too angry.