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Baseball Primer Newsblog — The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand Wednesday, November 19, 2008Detroit News: Gage: Relief can be spelled M-V-PGAGE HAS ROD STUCK IN HIS HEAD!
Repoz
Posted: November 19, 2008 at 09:08 AM | 36 comment(s)
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Well that's all that matters. Stay classy.
And he had not a single appearance of more than 1 inning in 2008. Not one. None. Zip. Zilch. Nada.
Rivera had 11 such appearances. Nathan had 4. Papelbon had 13.
And Halladay and Soria and Jenks and E. Santana and Danks and Mussina...
I propose PNC Park. Three rivers, and plenty of good seats available.
The time to complain about Ziegler's lack of recognition was when Jacoby Ellsbury got 26 times as many ROY points as Ziggy.
I'm not complaining, I'm just making a half-assed point about the relative value of Frankie. Ziegler, in 2/3 of a season, pitched damn near as many innings as K-Rod and had to come into a game with runners on base a lot more making his groundball artistry extra valuable. Still, Brad Ziegler received exactly the number of MVP votes as he deserved.
I know, but I wanted to.
C'mon Danny, it's best for us if Ziegler remains under the radar. Let the babies have their bottles!
Yeah, I'm thinking Ziggy is more like Bradford 2.0 than the second coming of Christ.
Nothing wrong with that. Nine straight years with an ERA+ over 100, I'd bet there aren't too many relievers in the game who can make that claim.
I'm not knocking Bradford at all. I'm ecstatic we found a replacement for him. There's nothing like bringing in a groundball guy like Bradford or Ziggy and watching him induce a groundball to Mark Ellis to get the team out of a jam. It's beautiful. And since I was a huge Quisenberry fan as a kid, I love the formal aesthetics, too.
You're on to something here. Change the term from "saves" to "bailouts" and perhaps the shine will come off just a bit.
For example, I do not know how many holds J.P. Howell had, but using Gage's approach, it is very easy to plead his case against Rodriguez. He threw 21 more innings with a lower ERA (barely). He was 6-1(with 3 saves) to K-Rod's 2-3 in wins and losses and in every "clutch" situation had a better record than Rodriguez. For example, in high leverage situations, batters hit .121/.256/.141 against Howell but .193/.293/.253 against Rodriguez. With 2 outs and runners in scoring position, Howell held batters to a .071/.250/.119 line while Rodriguez allowed one of .208/.309/.292. The same difference goes for late and close games, tie games and games in which there was a 1 run differential. In fact, Howell's worst line (.096/.288/.299) came in games with a 4 run differential. Why was Rodriguez more valuable? Because his outs were the last 3? It takes a lot of unsubstantiated assumptions to make the claim that that should make a difference.
14, 24th most in the AL.
For example, in high leverage situations, batters hit .121/.256/.141 against Howell but .193/.293/.253 against Rodriguez.
Under 1/3 of Howell's batters faced were in high-leverage situations. Over 2/3 of K-Rod's were.
Well, then I vote Mike Scioscia for MVP! He knew just the right times to bring in the mighty K-Rod.
I watch all games in uniform, but only my wife thinks I am a player.
IP ERA K BB LI WPA/LI-------------------------------------------
68.3 2.24 77 34 2.13 0.89
70.6 1.78 57 27 1.56 1.63
One of these players is the most valuable player in the American League. The other one nobody in the MSM has ever heard of.
Ah, the save statistic. Bless you.
Hear, hear.
Ziegler induced 23 GDPs in 60 innings. That just boggles my mind.
Your use of "WPA/LI" fascinates me, because I'm already highly skeptical of both elements of it.
For relievers, it makes a lot of sense. It shows how much a player was able to add to his team with the leverage he was given.
It really doesn't bother me. He got a fair amount of press when he broke the scoreless inning record. Other than that, he's a rookie middle reliever for a losing team. Only hard core fans care about Brad Ziegler.
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