Yaz, Rice, and Evans left on good terms.

True, Ryan. But they call him a choker and a non-Yankee too and that's taking things a step further.

Jeter chokes and does all the same babe doggin' A-Rod does but he gets a complete pass. He even gets a pass on his crappy defense.

Rice not so much. Remember he got into it with Joe Morgan when Morgan pinchhit for him, Joe?

You aren't getting it. We are saying the Front Office plants these stories in Boston, but that doesn't happen in NY.

Jeter chokes and does all the same babe doggin' A-Rod does but he gets a complete pass.

When it comes to that, Jeter has the advantage of not being married. Of course, that won't hamper A-Rod's game for much longer now.

Yaz, Rice, and Evans left on good terms.

Two of those were allowed to chose their retirements, so the team knew they weren't going anywhere else.

It's also not a good sign when you have to go back 20 years to find an example.

But name a planted story of the last 5 years, sj. The only one I can think of is the CHB column about Theo. And, once Theo came back, the door was slammed in CHB's face.

Plus, most of the time, the stories aren't planted, sj. The writers just know from talking to the FO guys which direction they're going and do the dirty work for them. Like McDonough nicknaming Clemens "The Texas con Man" or Vaughn "Mo Money". I'm sure Duquette didn't make those up. McDonough just understood Harrington wasn't going to spring for either of them and provided cover for him by disparaging them to the public, to alleviate the blowback.

In return, the writers get continued acces to inside information. That kind of thing is universal. It's just that with McDonough and CHB, it was particularly egregious and obvious.

And I disagree with you that the NY press aren't doing work for the front office. For instance, by blaming A-Rod for the Yanks not doing well in the post-season, they are distracting the public from making the obvious conclusion that the FO just isn't doing a very good job at roster construction and payroll management. How many "Fire Cashman" stories have you read in the papers lately? How many "The Steinbrenners Must Sell' stories have you read?

The writers just know from talking to the FO guys which direction they're going and do the dirty work for them. Like McDonough nicknaming Clemens "The Texas con Man" or Vaughn "Mo Money".

I'm still disappointed that "Moo" Vaughn never caught on as a nickname.

There is absolutely nothing to see here.

Edes on the Globe blog says that the report of a "six-figure" fine is simply false, and that there has been nothing going on within the Sox org in response to Manny's strikeout.

The apparent fact that Lobel's supposed report contained false information (Edes makes clear he has multiple sources) certainly casts doubt on the other claims he made.

How does Manny stack up against the best RH hitters of all time (post 1900)? A quick and dirty look over at BBRef shows me that the following guys are arguably better:

Foxx
Hornsby
McGwire
Greenberg
Frank Thomas
Dick Allen
Mays
Aaron
Dimaggio
Frank Robinson

Manny fits in pretty comfortably in the latter part of the list, perhaps a bit above such guys like Bagwell and Kiner.

Pujols of course has a peak argument, still a bit too early to put him on the list tho.

I was going to add Edgar Martinez and A-Rod, but I guess they're both just off the list, right in Bagwell/Kiner territory. So instead I'll suggest Ed Delahanty.

aleskel wrote:

actually, I can't think of any NY reporter or collumnist who shows much sycophancy.

aleskel, meet Bill Madden. Bill Madden, meet aleskel.

Thanks Mikeal for the link - this Lobel guy in Aussie terms is a ####.

Don't you mean a tosser, Phil?

In America, we call guys like Lobel "rummies".

actually, I can't think of any NY reporter or collumnist who shows much sycophancy

Kernan, for Hank Steinbrenner, big-time.

I'm just curious what is going to happen to Manny once he cannot play anymore and has to retire. Does he really think that his act is going to play with regular people once he doesnt have management playing babysitter for him anymore? I mean is he going to slap around his travel agent if he doesn't get the right plane tickets for a vacation and expect nothing to happen? I think the next reality show should be having someone follow him around 24/7 after he retires to see how he interacts with the rest of the world. I'm sure you'd find some cable channel that would want to air something like that.

As poorly as Winfield was treated by the Yanks, he certainly doesn't seem to hold a grudge - he brought a Yankees hat with him to the All Star Game and put it on in place of his other hat, to the delight of the crowd.

so has it been decided yet whether this Lobel thing is complete bogus? I need to move on, but no one has given me the go-ahead.

Does he really think that his act is going to play with regular people once he doesnt have management playing babysitter for him anymore?

He's massively, massively wealthy. Yes, it will.

Also, while that shove was obviously a really bad thing, it's also the only record I know of Manny being violent. He's always been a space cadet, but the shove was way out of character, and I don't think it should be seen as a typical Manny act.

How do you characterize slapping Youks?

How do you characterize slapping Youks?

An expression of erotic desire caught on tape.

No way his option should be picked up for next year, even if this story isn't true.

That's because A-Rod is a highly talented player, who always manages to come off as a complete ######### - the slapping incident, the "mine" incident, the Toronto stripper incident, the Madonna incident, the "which team will I play for in the WBS" incident. I don't think there's anyone unwilling to admit that A-Rod is a great player, but he just seems to get himself in so many stupid situations, completely of his own making.

I can't believe I'm going to defend a Yankee...

- the slapping incident - ok. that was bullsh*t. you win that point
- the "mine" - I think it's hilarious that a major league baseball player can;t tell the diffence between the voice of a guy sprinting around the base and the voice of his SS. That was completely on whomever the fielder was.
- the stripper and madonna incidents - that is his personal life being dragged into the media. I won't defend his choices, but I will say that it's ######## that his private life has to be smattered all over the front covers of newspapers and magazines.
- WBC - he came out and said he just wasn't going to play. the only reason we had to listen to that crap in the first place is because Selig is a ######### and pretty much told A-Rod he had to play.

Overall, I think most of A-Rods problems have come from trying to please everyone. He gives someone a quote that he thinks they want, and it winds up pissing someone else off and then it turns into s huge sh*tstorm. Notice how many fewer problems he seemed to have when he was in Seattle/Texas (minus the whole saying he's better than Jeter thing. which, of course, was totally true.)

And as for the original point of this post, the first pitch to Manny probably would have shattered his bat the way that he has been swinging lately. The next two were cutters that were right on the black of the plate, away. There is an almost zero chance that Manny could have anything with those, even as good of an opposite-field hitter that he is. I got in a massive fight with my uncle about this at-bat. He believed that Manny should have been swinging with two strikes no matter what Mo threw (then again, he also thought the first pitch was down the middle of the plate. I think he needs some glasses.) I, however, viewed that as a classic Manny at-bat. "I'm not going to swing at something I can' hit, even if it means striking out." I would much rather see that than the hacking he's been doing for much of this season.

I have a pretty strong feeling that Manny did intentionally tank the at-bat. That's just my assessment of his character. Wouldn't go to court with that. But it's neither here nor there, really. Doesn't change his talent.

Ted Williams isn't likely the best Red Sox hitter, but he sure isn't looking up at Manny.

- the slapping incident - ok. that was bullsh*t. you win that point
- the "mine" - I think it's hilarious that a major league baseball player can;t tell the diffence between the voice of a guy sprinting around the base and the voice of his SS. That was completely on whomever the fielder was.
- the stripper and madonna incidents - that is his personal life being dragged into the media. I won't defend his choices, but I will say that it's ######## that his private life has to be smattered all over the front covers of newspapers and magazines.
- WBC - he came out and said he just wasn't going to play. the only reason we had to listen to that crap in the first place is because Selig is a ######### and pretty much told A-Rod he had to play.

But why does it always seem like it's him who these things happen to? I can't think of any other player (even among the total publicity hounds, or complete loons) who has so many silly little incidents like this on their record.

Overall, I think most of A-Rods problems have come from trying to please everyone.

Completely. And, unfortunately for him, everyone seems to include every manly woman he meets.

But why does it always seem like it's him who these things happen to? I can't think of any other player (even among the total publicity hounds, or complete loons) who has so many silly little incidents like this on their record.

Clemens just blew by him at warp speed.

Also, while that shove was obviously a really bad thing, it's also the only record I know of Manny being violent. He's always been a space cadet, but the shove was way out of character, and I don't think it should be seen as a typical Manny act.

This and his recent comments both seem quite out of character. It's my theory that Manny is drumming up bad publicity for himself on purpose. He wants no part of the Red Sox picking up that option, but he has no control over it. So he starts making a nuisance of himself and makes it seem like he'll be more trouble than he's worth. Then he's free to sign a multi-year deal with whoever he wants.

That's my theory. And I don't think he tanked an AB.

Ted Williams isn't likely the best Red Sox hitter, but he sure isn't looking up at Manny.

Who is a better Sox hitter than Ted Williams?

Ted Williams isn't likely the best Red Sox hitter, but he sure isn't looking up at Manny.

Who is a better Sox hitter than Ted Williams?

Nevermind Sox hitter, can you name any hitter other than Ruth and maybe Bonds that was better than Williams?

I feel comfortable taking the position that Ruth was a better hitter.

Has a star player ever left Boston on good terms, without retiring? I can't seem to remember one.

Warren Spahn?

Ruth only had two seasons in Boston where he had more than 300 ABs. He was very good in those two years, but I don't think two seasons are enough to annoint someone as the best hitter in the history of a franchise. Granted, as I stated above, Ruth was a superior hitter. Just not a superior Sox hitter.

I feel comfortable taking the position that Ruth was a better hitter.

Not while he was with the Red Sox, he wasn't.

Granted, as I stated above, Ruth was a superior hitter. Just not a superior Sox hitter.

There's debate about this as well.

I haven’t read the thread, but there’s no way Manny tanked that AB. He was cheating on something inside and was just beaten by Rivera’s precise location, totally fooled, really. He was very hyped up in the dugout before that AB, and there’s no way, in my opinion, that he tanked it.

Not while he was with the Red Sox, he wasn't.

Are you saying that the Yankees had a whole bag of hitting skill waiting in Ruth's locker after they acquired him? He had the same skill set in Boston, it just wasn't utilized as well. In the same way that Mariano Rivera might be one of the Yankees' best centerfielders, Ruth was likely the best hitter the Red Sox ever had.

Are you saying that the Yankees had a whole bag of hitting skill waiting in Ruth's locker after they acquired him? He had the same skill set in Boston, it just wasn't utilized as well. In the same way that Mariano Rivera might be one of the Yankees' best centerfielders, Ruth was likely the best hitter the Red Sox ever had.

Well, that's an awfully slippery slope. Is Ryne Sandberg the greatest Phillies 2B or is it Nap Lajoie? Is Randy Johnson the greatest Expo pitcher?

Not while he was with the Red Sox, he wasn't.

Exactly

Well, that's an awfully slippery slope. Is Ryne Sandberg the greatest Phillies 2B or is it Nap Lajoie? Is Randy Johnson the greatest Expo pitcher?

Well I don't think Ryne Sandberg has a case over Nap Lajoie in any case, and Randy vs. Pedro is an interesting discussion at the very least.

Curt Schilling is the best Orioles pitcher of the last 30 years.

[/Cooperstown Shtick's silly schtick]

He wants no part of the Red Sox picking up that option, but he has no control over it.

I think it's the exact opposite. Of course he wants his option to be picked up. With the way he's playing, no team is going to give him a long team deal at his current salary. No team is going to give him a shortterm deal at his current salary.

So he's antsy about his future. Welcome to the real world.

Have no idea whether he tanked or not. Even if he did, I doubt he did it on purpose. It's more like he was feeling distracted or something.

Last night's bellyflop, hog rolling in the mudpit sequence was quite the display.

Yeah, he didn't "tank" that, either. I love how he "fell" onto the ball.

Stuff like that makes me appreciate Billy Martin.

i'd say Shea Hillenbrand left in bad terms.

if a conversation with a facsimile of the phrases below hasn't been laid on him..

"HELL NO...no more water bottles..damn sick of seeing your fat butt sittin at home plate on 400 ft singles.. happy hunting, freak, and good riddance"

then Ramirez has a legitimate beef

- the "mine" - I think it's hilarious that a major league baseball player can;t tell the diffence between the voice of a guy sprinting around the base and the voice of his SS. That was completely on whomever the fielder was.

It's somewhat less hilarious whe you realize the third baseman in question, Howie Clark, was recalled from the minors only a couple of days before and, IIRC, this was his first start since being recalled. You can think the play was bush league or you can think it was perfectly legitimate; people debated this here. However, claiming a newly recalled minor leaguer should recognize the voice of a guy he's not played with all season is not a strong defence.