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I'm in a "difficult" spot too; my boss says it's not worth paying me a million a year, even though I put my office uniform on every day, and I'm still the same engineer I've always been. Boo hoo.
Four 200-hit seasons, lifetime .300 hitter, 426 SBs and hardly ever gets caught, has been a top-ten MVP. I'm not saying this means he's good, but you'll have to forgive him if these things (and his gigantic salary) make him think so.
Don't worry, Juan. Ain't gonna happen.
Man, I wish I'd have thought of that.
Therein lies the problem.
Post #2.
Pierre: $11 million
Andruw: $18 million
Manny: $20 million
Just another chemistry problem that Ramirez has caused.
Sure, it's easy to mock the "All I’ve ever done is be Juan Pierre when I wear this jersey" line, but it's 100% true, and up until now people - including the Dodgers - have been telling him that it's good to be Juan Pierre in baseball. I can understand being frustrated now that nobody's telling you that, especially when you really haven't changed any.
Let's worry about Andruw playing more once his batting average gets within 50 point of his weight.
I will cut in line to be the first to jump on a player who is making a MLB salary and doesn't care about his job, but I don't see the point in telling a guy to shut up when his complaint is that he isn't getting a chance to work more for the money.
Pierre seems to be a standup guy. Even in his lament he manages to subtly plug a teammate, suggesting that the time for Andruw Jones to start hitting is imminent. He also seems to be a really good guy who gets an awful lot out of his actual abilities. If he played in the Dead Ball Era, he's probably be a Hall of Famer. Cut the guy some slack.
Point taken, but then, they don't say 'work ball'. Most of the work of being a major league athlete comes away from the games themselves. Having to put in that work and then not actually getting to play is endlessly frustrating, as any little league bench warmer will tell you.
Adam Dunn does.
Jeff Kent does too.
Brain cancer is difficult. Stop ########, Juan.
It's a catch-22. He can either
(a) Refuse to speak to reporters and then get cast as a pariah.
(b) Talk to reporters and tell them the truth about how he feels.
(c) Talk to reporters and lie and say it doesn't bother him.
I think in general, (b) [telling the truth] is the best way to go. Especially if you're able to do it in a respectful way, as Pierre did.
I can see almost buy this argument, but it would be nice if Pierre would throw in a little recognition that he is NOT playing well. He must (or should) be aware of the straight line decline in his OPS+ since 2004. His BA, OBP, and SLG are all way down from his FLA peak.
He should at least throw in a line about needing to get his BA above .300. Show some awareness that his play is part of the problem.
I was about to say that, hey, despite his speed, Pierre isn't any better defensively than the others... then I remembered, Manny is there now...
Not everything has to be mortal to be difficult.
I doubt Juan Pierre knows what his OPS+ is, was or gives a #### about it. Even if he was fully aware of it, he would, and I say this because he has made such comments in the past, justify things by pointing out (correctly or uncorrectly) his stolen bases, defense, bunting ability, etc... the little things that don't show up in the box score that the Juan Pierres of the world need to do to stay employed in Major League Baseball. I'm not trying to defend Juan Pierre, but athletes, even the most modest of ones until it's clear they've got nothing left, have egos that prevent them from accepting that they're not good enough. Always have, always will. Juan Pierre was brought in to hit 300, bat leadoff, and steal bases. Last year he hit 293, this year it's 280 and he's stolen 101 bases in 123 attempts as a Dodger. In his mind he's doing what he was paid to do (and he pretty much is, he wasn't brought in to hit for power or be a high OBP guy), and not surprisingly he is upset that people think he's not playing well.
But he hasn't hit .300 since 2004. His defense is, by all accounts, poor, and his arm laughable. He has to be aware he isn't as good as he used to be.
Juan Pierre is a very good defensive outfielder - I have him at +5 in center, +11 in left. Okay, so he has a bad arm. He still has good range and speed. Does that make up for the fact that he's a bad hitter? Probably not. But that's all the more reason to not make up things about how bad he is.
He hit 292 in 2006, 293 in 07. Close enough.
His arm has always been weak. And I'm sure he feels that his defense is just as good as it's ever been, irregardless of how good it actually is. We can sit here and point out all the stats that show he's not as good as he once was, and even then he wasn't that good to begin with. It doesn't matter. Athletes' egos won't let them acknowledge that. You think he's going to walk into the clubhouse and go over to reporters and say "you know what, you're right, I stink." He's not going to do that, he's going to try to "prove them wrong." Just as we have every reason to think he stinks, he has every reason to believe he's a starting CF.
That's a high standard. No one has hit .400 since Ted Williams.
Not only does Pierre throw laughably, he throws laughably with his left arm.
My mind boggles...
Actually if Pierre could field short no worse than Tony Womack circa 2000-02, yes he would be a clear improvement over Berroa.
It's certainly well rested.
Sorry, but it's you who's lost perspective, not Pierre. He's talking about something being "difficult" within a certain context. You're the one who's ripping his statements out of one context and ludicrously putting them in another. When someone says to you, "Gee, it sucks that I lost my cell phone" do you reply "Do you know what sucks? Brain cancer."
The worst part of it was the way that they kept playing him in September and wouldn't call up Pie to give him some PT.
BUT ... I'm willing to believe that Hendry outfoxed us all. By keeping Pierre as the primary CF through September 2006 he enabled JP to pile up enough stats to be designated a Type B free agent when he left the Cubs. IIRC the supplementary pick that they got for Pierre turned into Josh Donaldson - who was one of the pieces that they just sent to Oakland for Rich Harden.
So ... in return for suffering through watching Pierre audition for the Dodgers when Pie should have been honing his skills in front of the Ivy, we got Rich Harden. I don't really believe that Hendry did it on purpose ... but it still makes me feel much better.
He was a member of both the 2003 Marlins and the 2006 Cubs. He can get his slack from somebody else.
I know that on a statistical level that is a negative for most of us, and I will agree that I'd rather be playing Ethier against righties and drop Pierre to batting eighth/pinch running/hitting duties, but there is something unseemly about trashing a guy with that attitude.
Juan Pierre would be Ty Cobb's kinda player.
Have you seen the color of his skin?
Juan Pierre is a guy who busts his butt when he's in the lineup, and complains when he's not. There are worse personalities to have on a ballclub, but there are also better, particularly among players with questionable talent. The ideal is a player who plays hard when he's in the lineup, and doesn't complain when someone better is brought into play. They exist.
I missed the part where somebody did this. At least in this article, he never mentioned his salary at all nor did he argue that he should be playing more. He said that he wants to play every day, and acknowledged that the situation prevents everyone from playing as much as they want. The guy had a consecutive games streak going into this season that was ended by just not playing him.* Missing the playing time does not equate to ludicrous. Some people may be reading more into Pierre's "complaint" than there really is.
*Torre learned to overlook consecutive games streaks a little late. If he had similarly disregarded Matsui's earlier on and rested that guy more frequently, maybe his knees would be in better shape these days.
On edit: Pierre's sponsorship on baseball-reference.com is utterly classless. Even leaving aside the awkward racial reference, paying for the opportunity to trash a player like Pierre in that way is really weak. I can't believe the sponsor was actually willing to link that trash to an actual company website.
Hence why he lost his cell phone.
But it reinforces my point that there's something mean-spirited about the attacks upon Pierre that go beyond criticizing his OPS+.
This is a perfectly reasonable response, since by losing his cell phone, he has reduced his chances of cell phone-radiation induced brain cancer. So you are actually pointing out how much better off he is for having lost his cell phone.
I agree. As I said above, he's always been one of my favorite players, in part because I'm partial to speedy, center fielders with little power, but mostly because when he was with the Marlins, in particular, he seemed to be having so much fun playing baseball. I wish he was a better player or that his skills had more value in today's game, but even while recognizing he isn't and they don't, I don't get the attacks on him.
Worst. Thread. Ever.
There is some serious horsecrap being spewed around here.
I don't know why people need to get so vitriolic about a guy who does his best.
Yes, he shouldn't be a starting LFer but I don't know why people feel to take that fact and hold it against Pierre personally... especially when it is taken to these extremes. Get a grip folks.
Juan Pierre makes eight figures to be terrible at his job. I don't want to hear him complain about that job in any context. Excuse me for not wanting to hear the "poor me" routine. I exaggerated to make a point. Here's some perspective: if you make $11M a year and play like Betty White don't go on the record that your employer is "sticking it to you."
Apples and oranges, but every pro athlete knows he's got a limited number of years in him to play, and the competitive ones don't want to spend it as a backup -- a role Pierre has never found himself in.
Take your paycheck and shut up is a truly insulting rejoinder. If you'd take that, no matter how much they're paying you, you are less of a man than Juan Pierre.
If he was a young player, and being held on the bench, then that would inhibit his future earning potential and reputation, and would definitely have a point that the situation was unfair.
Look, most of us make less than 1% of Juan Pierre's yearly salary. Most of us HAVE to take our paycheck and shut up because we want to keep our jobs. My problem with Pierre isn't that he has issues at work and wants to address them. My problem is that he's doing so in the media.
He's making several times this year what most of us will earn by our retirements. And he rather clearly isn't very good. I can't see where the Dodgers have jerked him around at all. Sure, he's entitled to his gripes and grievances. But do it behind closed doors like a professional. Do you think it's classy or productive to grouse about your employer in the newspaper?
I remember way back in 1980 that this guy re-signed with et Yankees only on condition that he be the starting 1B, or at least start X number of games...
He of course started the year in a terrible slump and the team wasted no time in PUBLICLY requesting that he waive that contract provision (which he did...)
No one cares what you think about your employer. Juan Pierre is a ballplayer, so the media asks him what he thinks of his. Constantly. And, you know what, for the situation Juan Pierre is in, I think he came off pretty well in his comments.
If you were in a comparable situation at your job, and you had a dozen reporters asking you about it, I imagine you'd say something. You could only hope that you'd say something as respectful and honest as what Juan Pierre said.
Is that why you're upset with him? Because he makes more money than you?
And so he did. He slapped and swiped his way to a World Series, and got a huge contract. Then, the unthinkable happened. Suddenly, steals imply you not get caught, and batting average without walks or power isn't very useful. Poor Juan's dreams have been shattered as he learns his entire career was a lie. A 75 OPS+ lie.
It's 83 for his career not 75.
Back in 2003-04 when his OBP was .361 and .374, AND he played much better in the field than he does today- he WAS a good ballplayer.
His current salary, if paid to that 2003/04 player, would not be such a horrible contract.
What we have now is a player, whose OPS+ trend is this:
107, 84, 82, 75, 68
OBP trend:
.374, .326, .330, 331, .324
Slugging:
.407, .354, .388, .353, .316
and his dee seems to slip year by year
he IS worse than he was 3 years ago and 5 years ago
In 2004 Pierre was a poor man's Ichiro
In 2008 Pierre is pretty much this guy.
IMHO what should Pierre do? I think the big problem is his complete inability to hit the ball with any authority. His K/bb is quite good actually- he can stand to either
A: Hit the ball harder early in the count- swing harder or simply try to adopt a guess approach early in the count- sure he'll pick up a few Ks- but he might elevate his BABIP and get some XBHs back.
B: Use a heavier bat. I'm serious, he's basically a deadball era hitter anyway, let him go up there with a 40 ounce bat rather than 30 (or whatever he uses)- it's what deadball era slap hitter did, his infield grounders could be hit some 10-15% harder- and IFs either won't be able to cheat in as much on him- and he'll pick up some IF hits h's been losing, or if they still cheat in, extra balls will escape the IF.
Players change, they change athletically, or the competition changes the way they play you- you have to make adjustments. Pierre looks to me like he's lost a little athletically, and he has to make adjustments, but he hasn't yet (or can't)
For what it's worth, I remember Ozzie Smith using what looked like a pretty big bat. Worked for him.
I'm not upset with him. I really don't care about him one way or the other.
On the other hand, you probably don't make more money than me and I think you're an obnoxious ass.
I understand what the man said is relatively mild. But what's the point in complaining about it publicly? It doesn't change anything and helps nothing.
I do not want to speak for anyone, but I think what some people are trying to say is simply that it's difficult to listen to a man talking about his "difficult position," when in reality he is so well-off.
I'm sorry that you're not having much fun Mr. Pierre, but as long as you're making $10,000,000 a year to play baseball, it's going to be tough for you to get a piece of my sympathy cake.
A comparable situation?
Okay:
So I was the highest-paid worker in my company, but I am doing a terrible job and the company just brought in someone who makes more than me but who is much better. The company would probably like to fire me but they can not because we are unionized and my contract is guaranteed, so instead my workload is simply reduced so that I get to still be one of the highest paid workers in the company but I only have to work 24 hrs/week.
Sounds good to me. ;)
Don't forget that it's being nationally revealed how much your employer thinks you suck at your job. Also, a huge number of people who live around you feel like they pay a part of your excessively high salary and hate you for sucking. Also, the thing you only get to do 24 hrs/week is one of the most fun things you've ever done and you love doing it. Also, you're not a natural slacker.
Oops. Sorry. My browser has an emoticon-blocker.
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