I'm fairly sure this is simply Pedroia mouthing off again for amusement's sake, not meant to be taken seriously.

Remy's shelf life was wearing thin. He's toned down the obnoxious RemDawg act recently, and thank goodness, because it was becoming unwatchable.

Keep in mind that Remy shiit on Pedroia pretty constantly at the beginning of last year when Dustin was struggling during April and May, and Remy was always saying Pedroia would never make it in this league without shortening up his swing and punching at the ball. I'm sure Pedroia remembers that.

Keep in mind that Remy shiit on Pedroia pretty constantly at the beginning of last year when Dustin was struggling during April and May, and Remy was always saying Pedroia would never make it in this league without shortening up his swing and punching at the ball. I'm sure Pedroia remembers that.

He did? If so then Petunia's well within his rights to snark away at Remy-
Remy was thr rare player who could manage to be below average offensively- even hitting .300- of course he was overrated back in the day.

I can't watch the video at work, but I imagine it's all in good fun. Remy is pretty self-deprecating about his limited baseball talents, and Pedroia has kind of earned the right to razz him a little. Remy doesn't seem like the type to get upset about this stuff.

You have to love Pedroia's fearlessness.

Yes, making a joke about Remy...absolutely fearless bro!

Yes, making a joke about Remy...absolutely fearless bro!

You should hear what he says about Orel Hershiser's mom. Right to her face. He's the Kaiser Soze of Second Base.

Replace Remy with Bill Lee. Then I'll turn the volume back up. If Lee can't make it, ask Carbo.

Eh. .208/.256/.264 as a leadoff hitter. Overrated.

But .643/.647/1.071 as a cleanup hitter! Manny's got nothing on this kid!

I believe Bill James once called Remy "a quiet, respectable drain on Red Sox efforts."

but in all seriousness, pedroia has an outside shot at a 20/20/50 season. It would only be the 6th season in MLB history (since 1901, according to sean forman's PI =)

i wonder how kevin feels about pedroia

This makes me of all people want to tussle little Peoria's hair and give him a good, solid chuck on the shoulder.

I just looked at the numbers, and God, Remy was, um, uh, kinda terrible at the plate and his defense, blech. He was no Burrelson.

I just looked at the numbers, and God, Remy was, um, uh, kinda terrible at the plate and his defense, blech. He was no Burrelson.

He wasn't that bad. He was a legitimate major league second baseman, probably even an above average one. Teams didn't look for as much offense at second base and shortstop back in the late 1970's through late 1980's as they do now.

but in all seriousness, pedroia has an outside shot at a 20/20/50 season. It would only be the 6th season in MLB history (since 1901, according to sean forman's PI =)

I was suprised that only one of those was by Craig Biggio.

From 1975-1983, Remy's years as a reqular, his OPS+ was 83
195 2Bs had 400+PA seasons
the median OPS+ for a regular 2B was 89/90
Drop the PA bar to 250 and the median 2B was 87

Or cumulative, 35 2Bs had 1500+ PAs from 1975-83, the median OPS+ was 86, Remy was 22nd out of 35.

Even for his era, Remy was a below average offensive 2B- not by a huge margin- he was close enough to the average 2B offensively that he could easily have made up the difference with his glove )he didn't though)

Basically for most of his career he was a little below average- while being perceived as being a little above average.

Remy's OPS figures are killed by his utter lack of any type of power; his SLG figures were uniformly terrible. He was decent at getting on base and never struck out much, which given his position and size was pretty much all his managers were looking for in a leadoff guy.

His defense was supposed to be pretty good until he suffered his knee injury, then it rapidly deteriorated.

His reputation has been enhanced by his ubiquitousness on the Sox broadcasts, and TV commercials, and relentless product-hawking, which I suspect makes younger fans think he was more of a star than he really was.

Be sure to check out the new Remy's in Logan Airport Terminal C.

Remy couldn't hit a ball past Pinella either.

Remy's OPS figures are killed by his utter lack of any type of power; his SLG figures were uniformly terrible.

Yeah, and that's why he's one of those guys who's underrated a bit by OPS+. He was a good base runner, didn't strike out much, and was OBP heavy in his OPS. Except for his rookie year, he was an above average base stealer, and many years, ran a lot. None of these things usually matters much, but in Remy's case, they all probably add up to a few points of OPS+ - enough to take him from below average to above.

Or cumulative, 35 2Bs had 1500+ PAs from 1975-83, the median OPS+ was 86, Remy was 22nd out of 35.

Sure, but the one year solutions are almost always worse than the guys who are in there for several seasons. Being in the lower middle of the guys who are either 6 year semi-regulars or three year regular usually means you're somewhat above the overall median. Also, he really did stink in 1982-3, but still managed to play a lot. His keeping Marty Barrett in the minors probably wasn't enough on its own to cost them a division title in 1982, but combined with Boggs' being buried for almost the first half of the season, and the shockingly bad play of Glenn Hoffman, that might have pushed them over the top.

Remy was barely average.
Mix Duane Kuiper, Joe Strain, Bump Wills, and Rodney Scott in a blender. Remove Joe Strain. Add Mick Kelleher and Johnny Lemaster. Put Joe Strain back in. Attend the convention of the Alaska Independence Party. Go on and add Tom Veryzer and Steve Dillard, but then immediately remove Veryzer. Add Larry Lintz with slower legs. Look in the direction of Nyls Nyman. Remove Joe Strain again. That was Jerry Remy. The freakin guy batted in front of Rice, Lynn, Fisk, Yaz, Scott, etc.; I would hope he'd have some decent numbers.

His defense was supposed to be pretty good until he suffered his knee injury, then it rapidly deteriorated.

Not that this has to do with anything, but once after Remy broke his ankle (I think it was), there was a great photo of Jim Rice cradling him in his arms and carrying him off the field by himself. I'll likely never forget it, it was a wonderful pic.

and was OBP heavy in his OPS.

and yet had a better than league average OBP twice (when qualifying for the batting title- 3 times otherwise.

He stole 208 bases and was caught 99 times (174/78 after his rookie season)- that really didn't do much.

He never should have batted higher than 8th, but given the era he played in the fact that he usually had a decent batting average- stole some bases and didn't K much meant he was going to either bat leadoff or 2nd.

He wasn't a terrible player, he was clearly a valid starter- 26 MLB teams, there were probably no more than 15-20 2Bs better than him at any given point in time. Unlike Bill James I don't think he pushed his teams away from the pennant* (except maybe at the very end)- he just didn;t push them towards it.

What surprises me is that he only made 1 all star team- my recollection is that he was well enough regarded while playing to have made 3-4...

* You want a guy who actively pushed his teams away from the pennant?
this guy
especially with the Expos, yikes,

I went to look at Flynn's page after your comment, JPWF. In 1981, he hit .222/.247/.292, and drew 8 intentional walks! It wouldn't surprise me if one or two of those walks were issued in order to face a pitcher who actually a better hitter than Flynn.

Ain't like his DT card is any better than his OPS+.

It wouldn't surprise me if one or two of those walks were issued in order to face a pitcher who actually a better hitter than Flynn

Actually, Greg Harris WAS a better hitter for his carer than Flynn (if you take away Flynn's IBBs)

I'm a Mets' fan- I absolutely DESPISED Doug Flynn- the announcers loved him- it drove me nuts- he was good defensive player (good not great)- nowhere near good enough to justify his bat. The first Bill James Abstract I bought devoted a whole page to discussing how godawful Flynn was (he was an Expo then)- that's why I bought the next year's book- I thought, "Finally, here is someone who gets it".

You want a bad DT card? look at this:

Flynn

So THAT'S what a negative WARP1 looks like. Holy hell in a handcart.

I'm glad baseball has shifted somewhat from the days of Doug Flynn and Rafael Ramirez having 10+ year careers as regulars.

For the most part it has, but it's taken the last 3 years of Jose Reyes for me to get over the 7 years of Rey Ordonez I had to endure. I spent way too much time arguing with my father and others about his usefulness, or lack thereof. It's stressful just to think about it.

I spent way too much time arguing with my father and others about his usefulness, or lack thereof. It's stressful just to think about it.

I've been trying to explain to my dad why John McDonald should never get regular playing time. He's generally accepting of the idea, but still is pretty old-fashioned, with his biggest complaint about the Blue Jays being the lack of .300 hitters.

Basically for most of his career he was a little below average- while being perceived as being a little above average.

Bill James called him "a quiet, effective little drain on the Red Sox efforts"

Bill James called him "a quiet, effective little drain on the Red Sox efforts"

I guess that means he was grate.

and yet had a better than league average OBP twice (when qualifying for the batting title- 3 times otherwise.

He stole 208 bases and was caught 99 times (174/78 after his rookie season)- that really didn't do much.

He never should have batted higher than 8th, but given the era he played in the fact that he usually had a decent batting average- stole some bases and didn't K much meant he was going to either bat leadoff or 2nd.

His numbers are really better in the context of his times. There were a lot of second basemen back then who were way worse than the league average in OBP. Remy was almost always around it. Teams used to hit and run a lot, and that led to caught stealings. A 70% success rate for stealing bases in those days is a little better than it looks, especially in light of today's numbers where almost no one ever hits and runs.

I don't want to argue too strongly that Remy was a great player, but he was really right in the middle of the pack for his era, maybe a little above the middle. He obviously wasn't a player to build around, or to allow to block a real prospect, but you could have done a lot worse than Jerry Remy as your second baseman.

Mix Duane Kuiper, Joe Strain, Bump Wills, and Rodney Scott in a blender. Remove Joe Strain.

I've created a device for just this purpose -- sort of a wire mesh thing that will catch Joe but let the other parts through. Don't know what to name it, though.

I think I've heard that Bill James once wrote of Remy that he was "a quiet, respectable drain on Red Sox efforts."

I've created a device for just this purpose -- sort of a wire mesh thing that will catch Joe but let the other parts through. Don't know what to name it, though.

Joe Callender?

Joe Strain: Maybelline model.

but you could have done a lot worse than Jerry Remy as your second baseman.

Yes I know, I'm a Mets fan, the guy we had was FAR FAR FAR worse

Joe Callender?

Awesome.

Even with a league average on base percentage and a slightly above average average (say that five times fast), Jerry still had an offensive winning percentage of .421. I don't have the time at the moment to compare that to other second sackers of that era, though. It might be okay when adjusted for position. However, he spent way too much time at the top of the order.

In the AL East: Randolph, Molitor, Whitaker - all much better players. Dauer, Kuiper, the guys Toronto was using- much worse
AL West: Much better - Grich. About the same - Bannister, White (although White was a better fielder), Wilfong, Wills. Much worse - Cruz, Edwards

He was right in the middle of the pack among the regulars and better than nearly all the backups.