It sounds like Hirschbeck is suggesting that the umpires will be taking it slow on the replays as a form of protest against them.

Seriously, I'd say there's what about 1 HR call they'd need to review every week (on aveerage), probably less - so about 1 in 100 games. It'll take about 3 mins max to review. Oh noes, that would increase the average length of a game by a whooping 1.8 seconds. Holy crap!

That's not evan subtracting the time it would take anyway, for all the managers to come out of the dugout, umpires huddling around etc...

So the average time of a baseball game is 2h50m. And NFL games usually start at noon and three o'clock -- it's almost as if people expect football games to last three hours or something. But no complaints.

Has anyone compared the time between pitches to the time between plays in football? Is it just a problem of perception?

I'm also glad that networks such as ESPN are in no way responsible for the "interminable" length of most baseball games.

It sounds like Hirschbeck is suggesting that the umpires will be taking it slow on the replays as a form of protest against them.

My reaction as well. This is why... hell, let me just plagiarize myself from what I wrote on my site about it last night...

Three umpires can review the replay? Why? Why should any of the umpires be reviewing the replay? This is exactly what the NFL does wrong. The referee, who was responsible for the call on the field in the first place, is charged with deciding whether the call was wrong or not. The referee’s #1 vested interest, let’s face it, is avoiding admitting he was wrong if it can be at all avoided.

Replays should be reviewed by somebody upstairs, or in New York or wherever. One quick phone call, guy in the booth looks at the replay a few times, he tells the umpire whether the play should be overturned. Done and done.

And we're talking about only ten or less questionable home run calls a year.

In the postseason, it’s usually midnight madness. Many games start at 8:30 p.m. ET and nine-inning contests stretch on for an average of 3:26.

You know one reason why? All the extra TV commercials.

Because cameras are at playoff games

This makes them special?

They really should just use the Hawk-eye system from tennis. No need for extra officials or conferences. Just feed to data into the computer and let it throw the unambiguous answer up on the jumbotron for all to see. It would take some doing to modify the technology to deal with irregular boundaries, but it can't be that hard. And as an added bonus, this approach is inherently limited to boundary calls, so all the slippery slope arguments go right out the window.

I just cannot for the life of me fathom how anyone can sympathize with the umpires on this. The umpires' stance boils down to "My ego is more important than whether or not the call is actually correct." I can understand that some reasonable people buy into some of the arguments against using replay--it'll lengthen the games, they'll probably still get calls wrong anyway, it breaks up the flow of the game, etc.--and that's fine. I happen to disagree with those arguments, but they're perfectly rational.

But there are a significant number of people who parrot the umpires' arguments, along the lines of "human error is a part of the sport!" Well, yeah, and gang violence is a part of inner-city life. That doesn't automatically qualify it as desirable. That just strikes me as a little crazy, to argue that the umpire's ego is more important than getting the call correct.

The umpires' stance boils down to "My ego is more important than whether or not the call is actually correct."

I don't think it's really that, though. They will reverse calls (I hope) when there's evidence. To me it's "My ego is more important than keeping the pace of the game." Because, as you mentioned, you could get a call from upstairs before the guy's finished rounding the bases. So to save the umpires' egos we'll have a 3-minute delay instead of no delay.

Also, isn't this opening up to more manager arguing? I mean, if you had the ump in NY call down and say "no HR", what's the opposing manager going to argue with the field ump about? Whereas in this case the manager can still come out and argue with the ump who actually made the call.

This is why you can't just take the NFL model and apply it. The coaches aren't allowed to run out to the 40 yard line and argue with the ump, but MLB managers are.

So the average time of a baseball game is 2h50m. And NFL games usually start at noon and three o'clock -- it's almost as if people expect football games to last three hours or something. But no complaints.

That would be a relevant point if most baseball games started at noon or three o'clock.

As for the umpires, should replace the home plate umpire with a robot for ball and strike calls, if only so we could enjoy the ESPN weekly highlights moments of Sweet Lou arguing with a robot.

So to save the umpires' egos we'll have a 3-minute delay instead of no delay.

And their primary goal will be not to get the call right, but to avoid reversing the original call on the field if it can be at all avoided. That's what's wrong here.

I'll repeat that I'm against replay, with the reasons why I don't like it in college football. I'd love to see it used correctly.

The base reason is that there is nothing worse to see than the of use instant replay and NOT get the call correct. The number of stoppages during games will creep up, and every time there is a close call, fans and announcers will go crazy. Right now it will just be for HR, then next year they add another, then 3 years from now each manager will be given a red white and blue hanky to throw. Bobby Cox and Tony LaRussa will somehow bend the system to get more reviews than Jim Riggleman.

It truly is a slippery slope that doesn't appreciably raise the level of officiating, but adds a great number of downsides.

What drives me up the wall about this — in a HULK! SMASH! kind of way — is the insistence on implementing replay in the middle of a pennant race. Why isn’t next year early enough? I am sure that there has been bad officiating for as long as the game has been played. The season should be played out the way it has started. In the off-season do whatever is needed; be it building a war room at the MLB headquarters, or putting RFID chips into each ball. You’re only supposed to turn on the lights at the end of an inning. Otherwise one of the teams would have an unfair advantage. In the same vein you shouldn’t mess with umpiring before the end of the season. I’d be fine if they started using replays in the play-offs. Risky, though, isn’t it? Untested techniques on baseball’s biggest stage? Isn’t spring training a safer testing ground?

Their motivation is, ironically, risk-averseness -- they really don't want a blown call or possible blown call deciding an important playoff game, so they want it in now. But, once again, MLB is proving itself dependable to do everything wrong. If they wanted it in place for the major league playoffs, they should have been using it months ago.

Does anyone really think that replay will stop with home run calls? I guarantee you that in five years we'll see it applied to safe/out on force plays, and to fair/foul on balls in play, or caught/trap on outfield plays. And games will routinely go over four hours, all in the name of getting every call "right".

My feeling is it will progress like this:

1. Home run calls
2. Foul/fair calls
3. Plays at home plate (2 and 3 could be reversed, I don't know)
4. Plays at other bases
5. Catch/trap

And yes, I think eventually we'll get all the way through those five things; it's just a question of how long. My gut feeling is that IF replay works OK this year, foul/fair and home plate will be added within another year or two, plays at other bases another year or two after that.

I'd be all in favor of using it to force second basemen to actually touch second base while holding the ball during double plays...

I'd be all in favor of using it to force second basemen to actually touch second base while holding the ball during double plays...

But then they'd have to use it 3 times a game just for that.

So to save the umpires' egos we'll have a 3-minute delay instead of no delay.

What do you mean, no delay? Almost every close and controversial call in a ballgame already has a three minute delay from the manager coming out and ranting and raving at the umpires.

Almost every close and controversial call in a ballgame already has a three minute delay from the manager coming out and ranting and raving at the umpires.

I'm just speaking for myself here, but I would be happy if managers were not permitted to leave the dugout for any reason other than to remove their pitcher. Radical, I know, but... that's what I think.

i love it when managers come out to argue. its part of the fun of the game. i also admit to a slight guilty pleasure in seeing bench clearing brawls and the like. before everybody piles on me, let me just say injuries from thrown balls -- the usual catalyst for brawls -- is a hazard of the sport, players wear a lot of protection and they are great athletes and can avoid injury over 99% of the time. and almost none of them can box or fight with any deadliness. i've posted to this before; when i go to a game i want to see the players leave it on the field. managers are highly competitive. that is good. when they feel like they are getting screwed, they should get on their hind legs and object.

oh, and i hate the idea of instant replay. this is supposed to be a game, for crying out loud. that may be a little inconsistent with what i just posted, but not really. my preference is for base ball to be played hard and to be played and umpired on the field. gosh, i'm turning into a cranky old man.

I don't know why they just don't flash the play up on the jumbotron if some umpire thinks it needs reviewed. The fans would love that.

Has anyone compared the time between pitches to the time between plays in football? Is it just a problem of perception?

I'm with you on this. There is an incredible amount of down time between plays in football. Do they really need to huddle for that long? Then consider the "modern" offense with the short passing game and 2-3 yard out pass. Boring.

It's not "incredible". It's 30-35 seconds on most plays, and 39.99997 seconds if you're watching the Indianapolis Colts (the play clock is 40 seconds). I don't have stats, but it seems like the average time between pitches is around 15 seconds. And then, there are about 120 plays per football game, versus about 300 pitches per baseball game.

That would be a relevant point if most baseball games started at noon or three o'clock.

You are right Andy. The NFL has games that start at, gulp, 9:10 ET. That is over 2 hours later than baseball games start and MNF is frequently a 3hr 30 min (210 minute) enema.

The children!

It's not "incredible".

Yes it is.

The clock has 60 minutes. In between those 40 seconds, you will have 120 plays that last usually 5 seconds. That is no more than 10 min of action in a 3hr 15 min time slot.

That is a lot of down time.

But, once again, MLB is proving itself dependable to do everything wrong. If they wanted it in place for the major league playoffs, they should have been using it months ago.

The only constant, is that what no matter MLB does, it will get ripped as the wrong decision. The playoff start in October, not June. I think they will be fine for getting this active for October seeing as it is after August and Sept, if they were rolling it out in November for the 2008 playoffs, then you would have a good point.

...if only so we could enjoy the ESPN weekly highlights moments of Sweet Lou arguing with a robot.

Sweet Lou: "You better throw me outta this game, I've got a reputation to uphold."

Robot Voice: "YOU ARE OUT OF HERE."

Sweet Lou: Thank you very much."

Robot Voice: "YOU ARE WELCOME."

Sweet Lou: "...and say hello to the Mrs, or whatever the hell you have."

Robot Voice: "YOU DO THE SAME."

What do you mean, no delay? Almost every close and controversial call in a ballgame already has a three minute delay from the manager coming out and ranting and raving at the umpires.

I meant that there would be no delay if they implemented the "eye-in-the-sky" option. I'm not sure how they could argue if the ump on the field says, "Joe in NY said it's not a HR. I can't do anything about it." So that would be no delay. The current system will have a triple delay because there will be an argument, the ump will spend time reviewing it, then whichever manager's team loses out will still want to argue about it.

All for saving the ego of the ump, so that he's not overruled by someone.

And NFL games usually start at noon and three o'clock -- it's almost as if people expect football games to last three hours or something.

They moved the start of the late game back to 3:15 a couple of years ago. I don't remember hearing any complaints about it.

Their motivation is, ironically, risk-averseness -- they really don't want a blown call or possible blown call deciding an important playoff game, so they want it in now. But, once again, MLB is proving itself dependable to do everything wrong. If they wanted it in place for the major league playoffs, they should have been using it months ago.

On the plus side, if they want it in place for the playoffs they should start using it before the playoffs. That part they got right. Whether they now have enough time to test out the system before the playoffs start, I don't know.

i also admit to a slight guilty pleasure in seeing bench clearing brawls and the like.

I wouldn't want to live in a world where we would be deprived of the sight of Nolan Ryan teaching Robin Ventura to better respect his elders.

"In the postseason, it’s usually midnight madness. Many games start at 8:30 p.m. ET and nine-inning contests stretch on for an average of 3:26. Because cameras are at playoff games, umpires will have even more angles to review before the crew chief makes his decision on a call."-

This needs more criticism, because it's ####### dumb. Playoff games take forever because Fox needs to cram 20 million promos for their latest magnum opus down our throats, not because the games are really taking massively longer.

subjectively, I think the umps are a bunch of insufferable dickheads; objectively, I think they're doing what any group of people would do in their situation....

That would be a relevant point if most baseball games started at noon or three o'clock.


You are right Andy. The NFL has games that start at, gulp, 9:10 ET. That is over 2 hours later than baseball games start and MNF is frequently a 3hr 30 min (210 minute) enema.

The children!

Football is played once a week: it's an all-day event for many fans. But a three-hour sports event night after night is too much for most people. And baseball playoff series are just murder: three-and-a-half hour games that end well past midnight, every single night for a month? Unless your team is in it, can you really watch that much baseball when you have to work in the morning?

i am sitting here watching Olympics on a three hour delay, to appease the whiny ##### in this thread that are complaining about having to watch the end of a game at midnight.

#### you.

the entire sports television market caters to your every ####### need on the east coast, and still you whine.

seriously #### you.

I'm not really a fan of instant replay, but my deep burning hatred for the umpires precedes that.

The reason football seems faster than baseball is that most peoples' experience with pro sports is television. On football, you can show several replays between plays, they're all different and there are several things going on at once. You can't show two replays of every pitch.

So baseball on TV has a lot of nothing happening on screen. Football almost always has something happening on screen.

I don't know why they just don't flash the play up on the jumbotron if some umpire thinks it needs reviewed. The fans would love that.

I love that plan, actually. And I bet it would speed the process up because the umpires don't want everyone in the stadium watching the replay over and over.