3RD!?!?!?

Jonesy ... I am SO disappointed in you.

Go stand in the corner young man and think about what you have done!

3RD!! (sigh) He used to be such a good boy at Baseballboards/Fanhome. I fear the rat has gotten to him. Expos fans unite! Time for an intervention.
.
Best Regards

John

Edit: It just dawned on me that Ren and Stumpy were No. 1 insofar as baseball owners go. I'll call off the dogs.

11. Calvin Griffith, Washington Senators and Minnesota Twins: Griffith first made enemies in D.C., transplanting the team to Minnesota a few years after inheriting it from his uncle, Clark Griffith. Speaking at a 1978 Lions Club function in Minnesota, Griffith revealed his reason for moving the team out of Washington: "I'll tell you why we came to Minnesota," he explained. "It was when we found out you only had 15,000 blacks here. Black people don't go to ballgames, but they'll fill up a rassling ring and put up such a chant it'll scare you to death. We came here because you've got good, hardworking white people here."

I would have loved to see Bernie Casey and the Lambda Lambda Lambda coming struting into the function.

I don't know why you'd put Carl Pohlad behind Peter Angelos. Angelos is just a buffoon. Pohlad is actually evil.

And really, Wirtz should top this list.

Wirtz should top this list.

He doesn't own a professional sports team.

Fun list.

And really, Wirtz should top this list.

Amen. I'd rather be anally sodomized by Steve Garvey for weeks on end rather than have own a team I care about.

Years ago espn.com had a fan poll ranking all pro sports ownerships. Blackhawks came in the bottom three with the Expos and Brewers, . Rob Neyer got off a line: I don't know anything about the Blackhawks owner, but he must be the worst - he's down there with two teams run by Bud Selig.

Back then, at least Seilg's prominence made him a figure people who didn't even follow the Brewers disliked. You had to be a real hockey fan or a Chicagoan to know diddley about Wirtz, yet he still scored as low as the Selig teams.

As a final slap in the face, Wirtz has blacked out Blackhawks home games for years.

Yea, either 4-5 billion years or 6,000 depending on if you ask scientists or Brattain.

Actually, I can see a case for Irsay.

Bidwells shoulda been an honorable mention.

I don't know why you'd put Carl Pohlad behind Peter Angelos. Angelos is just a buffoon. Pohlad is actually evil.

At least Pohlad's teams are well-managed and have winning seasons now and then.

At least Pohlad's teams are well-managed and have winning seasons now and then.

To me, the fact that Pohlad has two championships just makes me hate him more.

No love for Carl Lindner, the guy who would rather give money away than spend it on the Reds?

He forced Bowden to draft Jeremy Sowers, with no intention of agreeing to the type of contract Sowers would demand, thus avoiding paying 1st round money to anyone.

I can't believe Ballard is so low

His policy more or less amounted to getting the cheapest possible team out there cause he knew he'd sell out the Gardens anyway, I believe his exact quote was "I could put dogs on skates and they'd still buy tickets"

Steinbrenner without the championships indeed
He was like Steinbrenner the 80s version, except not incompetent...but actively evil.

Add the child molestation charges and I think he should be able to crack the top 10.

"I'll tell you why we came to Minnesota," he explained. "It was when we found out you only had 15,000 blacks here. Black people don't go to ballgames, but they'll fill up a rassling ring and put up such a chant it'll scare you to death. We came here because you've got good, hardworking white people here."

What does the "rassling ring" part mean?

The sale had more to do with a holdout by Ruth and a dispute with commissioner Ban Johnson. Still, Frazee passed on the White Sox's impressive offer of Shoeless Joe Jackson and $60,000, opting for the Yankees' offer of $100,000 in straight cash instead.

I never knew this.

Still, Frazee passed on the White Sox's impressive offer of Shoeless Joe Jackson and $60,000, opting for the Yankees' offer of $100,000 in straight cash instead.

good pass. $40,000 in 1920 was probably better than 1 year of Shoeless Joe.

.';.;'.>">go the distance

I don't know why you'd put Carl Pohlad behind Peter Angelos. Angelos is just a buffoon. Pohlad is actually evil.

And really, Wirtz should top this list.

Agreed.

Yea, either 4-5 billion years or 6,000 depending on if you ask scientists or Brattain.

(snicker)

For the record, I don't believe the earth is 6000 years old. The Bible says "in the beginning" attaching no time frame to when that precisely was. The Hebrew word used for "day" (yohm) doesn't mean a 24 hour day since the first "day" was used to establish day and night. The length of each "day" is left undetermined and they don't necessarily have to be of the same length of time any more than Babe Ruth's day and Julio Franco's day were of identical length. The original Hebrew also allows for the possibility that some processes that started in one day could well have continued into the next.

Considering the distance between the most distant galaxies and earth and the time it would take for that light to reach our planet is of itself proof of the ole Terra's age.

I know it was meant as a joke but I don't like being compared to fundamentalists or so-called "creation scientists." They've done a better job than Charles Darwin when it comes to creating doubt regarding scripture. Earth and everything on it created in 144 hours 6000 years ago?

Bleah.

Best Regards

John

The sale had more to do with a holdout by Ruth and a dispute with commissioner Ban Johnson. Still, Frazee passed on the White Sox's impressive offer of Shoeless Joe Jackson and $60,000, opting for the Yankees' offer of $100,000 in straight cash instead.

I never knew this.

The White Sox offer part might be true, though like you I've never heard of it. But the Yankees' offer most definitely wasn't $100,000 in straight cash; it was $125,000 cash plus a $300,000 loan on very favorable terms.

And in Rob Neyer's Blunders book he pretty convincingly debunks the theory that Frazee made this deal to finance "No No Nannette."

What does the "rassling ring" part mean?

rassling = wrestling

Wow, I had no idea Carl Pohlad was that old. 92!

rassling = wrestling

I got that part, but do/did black people go to a lot of wrestling matches? Or am I just putting more thought into Griffith's speech than he did?

The irony of the Griffith quote is that D.C. was a black baseball mecca. In fact, the Senators made so much renting out their stadium to the Grays, Clark Griffith became privately staunchly opposed to integration despite being publically supportive of it.

As a final slap in the face, Wirtz has blacked out Blackhawks home games for years.

Well, it's hard to argue with Wirtz on this point. I mean, the Cubs, Bears, and Bulls televise home games, and nobody buys tickets makes "reservations" for those games.

2 notable omissions (Off the top of my head):

1. Andrew Freedman. I know he said he wasn't going back in time that much, but c'mon! George Steinbrenner on Quaaludes! The man almost got assaulted by a mob of angry fans on the field once.

2. Chuck Lamar or Vince Namoli or whoever you want to blame for the unending futility of the Devil Rays. I know they don't have a lot of fans, but whoever they are, they have to be really pissed.

I hate all of them. It makes things easier.

I know it was meant as a joke but I don't like being compared to fundamentalists or so-called "creation scientists." They've done a better job than Charles Darwin when it comes to creating doubt regarding scripture. Earth and everything on it created in 144 hours 6000 years ago?

Bleah.

Best Regards

John

Considering the logo at the top of this page, I don't think those fundamentalists want to be compared to you, John.

Also, what was the length of the Yom (day) of Game 6 of the '86 World Series?

What an amazing list, and it seems to be pretty objective. There has to be a book in this.

I think that anyone's personal choices are heavily influenced by proximity. I'd put Irsay, Snyder and Angelos at 1-2-3, though I can see where Blackhawks, Marlins and Cavaliers fans might disagree. But if Keri thinks that Robert Irsay's only crime against the Colts was Mayflower Morning, he should take a look at the ten year prelude to it. If Dan Snyder suddenly moved the Redskins to Omaha in 2009 after the DC City Council refused to build him a 100,000 seat stadium on Connecticut Avenue, that might give you a hint of what Baltimore fans experienced.

At least the Browns won a championship under Modell, and for a long time he wasn't even considered that bad an owner. But Irsay was Irsay from the minute he made that franchise swap with Rosenbloom. He's the only owner I can even imagine being worse than Daniel Snyder.

And in Rob Neyer's Blunders book he pretty convincingly debunks the theory that Frazee made this deal to finance "No No Nannette."

Considering that "No No Nannette" didn't get produced until 1925, that probably wasn't the most difficult of debunking jobs.

Is that myth from CHB's book, or does it go back farther than that?

OK. So Frazee sold the Babe to finance "My Lady Friends" in 1920. And "My Lady Friends" was later turned into a musical and renamed "No No Nanette." Perhaps the myth leaves out a step, but it seems pretty darned close.

OK. So Frazee sold the Babe to finance "My Lady Friends" in 1920. And "My Lady Friends" was later turned into a musical and renamed "No No Nanette." Perhaps the myth leaves out a step, but it seems pretty darned close.

Except that "My Lady Friends" opened on December 3, 1919, a month before Ruth was sold to the Yankees, and was still running all the way through June. Frazee sold Ruth in great part because he just flat out didn't like him, a sentiment that was echoed by a surprising number of his supporters in the press---the same sort of writers who always find something to complain about with every player not named Cal Ripken or Dale Murphy or Ernie Banks. Whatever "reasons" Frazee later gave for the sale were little more than excuses to cover up his historic lack of judgement.

Thanks all. By the way, in case it's not obvious, the owners piece links to most hated GMs and most hated coaches lists too.

And John, I could've written a good 5,000 words on Loria if they'd let me. Reminiscing about Tom Runnells and Jim Beattie was oddly cathartic.

Is that myth from CHB's book, or does it go back farther than that?

Much farther back. See Glenn Stout's excellent article on ESPN.com, or his larger Red Sox Century.

Basically, the Frazee story began in Henry Ford's rabidly anti-Semitic Dearborn Independent, which ran a series of stories painting Frazee as a money-hungry New York Jew who neither understood nor cared for baseball. Shaughnessy picked up these racist smears through Fred Lieb and reprinted them uncritically.

Frazee, in fact, was well-capitalized throughout his tenure as Red Sox owner.

Well Frazee was money-hungry, you can't argue with that.

See Glenn Stout's excellent article on ESPN.com, or his larger Red Sox Century.

Stout's chapter on Frazee in Red Sox Century, though, seems to be almost making excuses for the Ruth sale, the way he keeps repeating all the negative stuff that the press was writing about Ruth that Winter, which kinda sorta misses the forest for the trees. It seems somewhat along the lines of that "5 Reasons You Can't Blame...." series on ESPN, which often gets into contrarianism for its own sake.

Basically, the Frazee story began in Henry Ford's rabidly anti-Semitic Dearborn Independent, which ran a series of stories painting Frazee as a money-hungry New York Jew who neither understood nor cared for baseball. Shaughnessy picked up these racist smears through Fred Lieb and reprinted them uncritically.

Even worse than the original Dearborn Independent articles was the fact that the entire series of them---80 articles in all---was reprinted in a four volume set of paperbacks called The International Jew, which was given away with every new Ford car, donated to public libraries all over the country, and prominently displayed in every Ford showroom. It was tough to escape them, and their influence was enormous. At one point there were more than a million of these sets in circulation, and one of the many admirers that Ford acquired in the process was a guy named Hitler, who gave them a prominent place in his library.

And BTW that set is still in print, and still widely quoted and sworn by.

Stout's chapter on Frazee in Red Sox Century, though, seems to be almost making excuses for the Ruth sale, the way he keeps repeating all the negative stuff that the press was writing about Ruth that Winter, which kinda sorta misses the forest for the trees.

Well, yes and no. I think Stout's point - read sympathetically - is that Frazee wasn't some lone nutcase who didn't like Ruth - a ton of people couldn't stand the guy, and didn't think he was all that great at baseball. All those people were wrong, and none of them was the Red Sox owner, but the Dearborn-Lieb-Shaughnessy story paints Frazee as selling out the ballclub for money. In fact, he was selling in order to help the ballclub. Stout's point goes to intention, not outcome.

I agree that that article doesn't belabor the fact that Frazee did help kill his team through that action, but as a rebuttal to the historicity of the legend, it works well.

Stout's chapter on Frazee in Red Sox Century, though, seems to be almost making excuses for the Ruth sale, the way he keeps repeating all the negative stuff that the press was writing about Ruth that Winter, which kinda sorta misses the forest for the trees.

Well, yes and no. I think Stout's point - read sympathetically - is that Frazee wasn't some lone nutcase who didn't like Ruth - a ton of people couldn't stand the guy, and didn't think he was all that great at baseball. All those people were wrong, and none of them was the Red Sox owner, but the Dearborn-Lieb-Shaughnessy story paints Frazee as selling out the ballclub for money. In fact, he was selling in order to help the ballclub. Stout's point goes to intention, not outcome.

I agree that that article doesn't belabor the fact that Frazee did help kill his team through that action, but as a rebuttal to the historicity of the legend, it works well.

Since I liked the rest of Red Sox Century so much (even though Stout was hardly the only writer), and also the companion volumes on the Yankees and the Dodgers, I can only half-heartedly offer too much criticism of that one chapter. Those are three essential books in any baseball lover's library.

But I took the whole tone of that Frazee chapter as a lawyer's brief for the defendent, sort of like reading the loveable Mr. Nieporent arguing that we can't "prove" that Barry Bonds took steroids: Theoretically possible, but not much more than that. The fact that Stout could dig up lots of writers in support of the sale isn't all that impressive, considering that the writers of that time were far more in the pockets of the owners than they are today, and especially since so many of them detested the passing of the "scientific baseball" era which Ruth so obviously foreshadowed. That whole "No, No Nanette" story is a cute little bit of historical trivia, but in truth it's little more than a sidebar to the much bigger factors of Frazee's colossal ego and his even more colossal lack of judgement about Ruth's talent.

A lot of it does depend on perspective. For instance, I'd have Ballard in the top-5, without question. Threre is a ton of other stuff he doesn't mention, like his public wars with every good player the Leafs had from Keon up to Clark's era.

Before Wirtz, there were also the Norrises, who controlled half the teams in the league (seriously) and busted HOFer Ted Lindsay to the last-place Blachawks as punishment for talking union, sending several other players to the minors.

I'd put the McCaskeys (owners of the Chicago Bears) somewhere in the "honorable mention" section, along with Charles Comiskey. The McCaskeys mismanaged the Bears for years through a mixture of nepotism, stubbornness, and distilled, high proof stupidity. They bullied the city into building a terrible stadium in a bad location by threatening to move the Bears to Gary, IN. The funny part about this threat was that they pretended that this was in fact a serious option. I'm pretty sure when you look up "empty threat" in the dictionary it references this ploy of the McCaskeys. The fact that the Bears are winning now still doesn't mean the McCaskeys have a good organizational strategy: It means they have a great defense. They haven't been able to run or pass the ball for almost two decades. I submit, as evidence, Cade McNown, Henry Burris, Curtis Enis and Rashaan Salaam.

Comiskey should be in the "honorable mention" section for obvious reasons...

So, in thinking about this, Jerry Reinsdorf is almost assuredly the best owner in Chicago for both of his franchises, and he's partially despised by the fanbases of both for A) dismantling the Bulls and alienating Michael Jordan B) the Jerry Krause fiasco C) his role in the 1994 baseball strike and D) the White Flag trade of 1997. That's pretty appalling. All you other cities need to stop complaining about your relatively competent ownership groups. Except you, Pittsburgh, and you, the entire state of Florida: You guys have the right--nay, the duty--to complain, and loudly.

They've done a better job than Charles Darwin when it comes to creating doubt regarding scripture.

But...but...but...all those fossils were put there by the flood!

9. Walter O'Malley, Brooklyn Dodgers/Horace Stoneham, New York Giants: The twin moves that changed professional sports forever.

I'd say that O'Malley at least is more beloved than hated. The New York Intelligentsia doesn't speak for the fans of the most attended franchise in sports history - and despite the mythology, the Dodgers' attendance in Brooklyn was poor for a perpetual contender for the decade before the move.

Thanks, MCA, and everyone for the further discussion.

Considering the logo at the top of this page, I don't think those fundamentalists want to be compared to you, John.

RDF .... too true. Once a primate, always a primate eh?

And John, I could've written a good 5,000 words on Loria if they'd let me.

And 4998 of them would've been four letters long.

But...but...but...all those fossils were put there by the flood!

I didn't know Curt Flood was the Yankees GM.

Best Regards

John

But...but...but...all those fossils were put there by the flood!

Does every discussion turn to Julio Franco at some point?

oes every discussion turn to Julio Franco at some point?

Damn Mets Hijacks

I disagree with every entry on that list except for #3.

Only because I would have put Loria in all of the other 35 spots as well.

Intentionally destroying a team so you can move to Florida? Didn't I see that in a movie?

Is Steinbrenner on the list?

Other random thoughts:

Tom Yawncey and the guy who owned the Redskins way back when for their views on race.

Charles Comiskey. His players throw the World Series and people blame him.

Marge Schott.

Actually - you know what would be an interesting/difficult list? Most beloved owners:
Bill Veeck
Connie Mack
. . uh . . . the NY Giants owner who died not so long ago, I guess
Halas? I guess, now that he's dead.

Frazee sold Ruth in great part because he just flat out didn't like him, a sentiment that was echoed by a surprising number of his supporters in the press---the same sort of writers who always find something to complain about with every player not named Cal Ripken or Dale Murphy or Ernie Banks.

There's some reason to believe that Ruth forced the deal himself, most likely in an effort to get more money. He threatened to quit in the 1919 offseason, and jumped the Red Sox at one point in-season as well.

-- MWE

Frazee sold Ruth in great part because he just flat out didn't like him, a sentiment that was echoed by a surprising number of his supporters in the press---the same sort of writers who always find something to complain about with every player not named Cal Ripken or Dale Murphy or Ernie Banks.

Wasn't there a rumor a few years ago that Ruth was part black? I THINK we know why HE was REALLY traded.

Seriously, I would not be at all surprised if many people did not like Ruth. The game was changing, and he was one of the biggest parts of the change. Baseball is the kind of sport where fans are really resistant to change, and I can't imagine fans in the teens were all that different than today's fans.

Let's see... you have a player who uses illegal substances, sleeps around, and is immensely talented so you can't help but pay attention to him. I wonder how the media would respond to that today.

It's hard to defend the trade today, but at the time? $100,000 is a ton of money back then. How coarse were the tools used to analyze players in the early 1900s? Certainly everyone knew Ruth was a very good player, but following his age 24 season, could people back then really predict he would be considered by many to be the greatest player of all time nearly 90 years later?

Steinbrenner, O'Malley and Yawkey shouldn't be on that list.

Steinbrenner certainly 15 years ago but not any more; O'Malley if you only count New Yorkers and discount the fact that once he got to LA he was the best owner in baseball for many years; and Yawkey if you ignore the fact that he was always popular with his players in with the equally racially-challenged media.

There's some reason to believe that Ruth forced the deal himself, most likely in an effort to get more money. He threatened to quit in the 1919 offseason, and jumped the Red Sox at one point in-season as well.

No question that Ruth was one obnoxious dude, but Frazee still owned him and Ruth had a history of backing down when push came to shove. Frazee simply let his emotions get the better of him.

Let's see... you have a player who uses illegal substances, sleeps around, and is immensely talented so you can't help but pay attention to him. I wonder how the media would respond to that today.

I know that you wrote that tongue in cheek, but in terms of public acceptance there is a teeny weeny itsy bitsy wittle bit of a difference between alcohol during prohibition and steroids today. Not to mention that Ruth was also running around to those speakeasies with lots of sportswriters themselves.

It's hard to defend the trade today, but at the time? $100,000 is a ton of money back then. How coarse were the tools used to analyze players in the early 1900s? Certainly everyone knew Ruth was a very good player, but following his age 24 season, could people back then really predict he would be considered by many to be the greatest player of all time nearly 90 years later?

You can grant all of that (even though the truth is that most people DID know just how good Ruth was), but still be able to see that Ruth's potential at the gate was going to get you a lot more than $100,000 before all that long. The owners and some of their pressbox supporters may have hated Ruth, but the public adored him from Day One, and at the time Frazee sold him he had already just set a new home run record a mere four months earlier. Only a completely blind idiot like Frazee could have failed to see what that kind of a player was likely to mean for future attendance. And this isn't mere hindsight; plenty of people noted it at the time.

NY Giants owner who died not so long ago, I guess

Wellington Mara, and you're right, he was amazingly popular.

Let's see... you have a player who uses illegal substances,

The Volstead Act was passed a couple of months before Ruth was sold, during the same off-season. I wonder if that had anything to do with anything.

The Volstead Act was passed a couple of months before Ruth was sold, during the same off-season. I wonder if that had anything to do with anything.

Not a chance. Pure coincidence.

I'd put the McCaskeys (owners of the Chicago Bears) somewhere in the "honorable mention" section, along with Charles Comiskey. The McCaskeys mismanaged the Bears for years through a mixture of nepotism, stubbornness, and distilled, high proof stupidity.

Actually, that's just Mike. They still own the team, and have since Papa Bear died (Virginia McCaskey is Virginia Halas). The greatest part was when Virginia McCaskey had to hold a press conference to remove her son from a decision making position. Nothing like being fired by mom!

They bullied the city into building a terrible stadium in a bad location by threatening to move the Bears to Gary, IN.

This isn't outright extortion like in MLB. The NFL has a huge fund to help teams build stadiums, so while the city did have to chip in some, and they did have to give up the rat infested building called Soldier Field, they got a pretty nice and modern place out of it. I'm still pretty sure that the city owns the stadium and the land, and even though it's an eyesore, it's still worth a ton of money.

They haven't been able to run or pass the ball for almost two decades. I submit, as evidence, Cade McNown, Henry Burris, Curtis Enis and Rashaan Salaam

Hold it, hold it, hold it. Two decades? Try their entire history bud! When your "franchise QB" is Jim McMahon, you suck. Just go back to single wing.

All those draft picks are Mike.

And really, Wirtz should top this list.

If he were an owner in any other sport, he would be mocked daily. He gets away with it because it's hockey. I believe the Hawks Stanley Cup drought is almost at 50 years now.

He ruined hockey for me. I can say that for years I didn't follow the NHL because the Hawks sucked. Finally, I just gave up on them. I will never go to another Blackhawks game again until Bill Wirtz is dead.

He ruined hockey for me. I can say that for years I didn't follow the NHL because the Hawks sucked. Finally, I just gave up on them. I will never go to another Blackhawks game again until Bill Wirtz is dead.

This is why Wirtz is worse than Irsay or Modell. The NFL is still a going concern, even thriving, in Baltimore and Cleveland. Wirtz has managed to destroy interest in the NHL in Chicago. That took some doing - the Blackhawks had a rabid fan base in the not-too-distant past.

looking at the coaches list - no Buck Showalter? He's worn out his welcome pretty much everywhere he's managed, with the added bonus that two teams (the '96 Yankees and '01 D'backs) won championships the second he left

That took some doing - the Blackhawks had a rabid fan base in the not-too-distant past.

We used to go to games all the time. At least once a month for years. They traded Roenick, Belfour, Chelios, and then finally Amonte. That was it. People can get all excited about the Blackhawks young players, but when those guys hit free agency and get expensive, they'll be traded for five cents on the dollar, too.

looking at the coaches list - no Buck Showalter? He's worn out his welcome pretty much everywhere he's managed, with the added bonus that two teams (the '96 Yankees and '01 D'backs) won championships the second he left

We can't hate Showalter - he has the keys to baseball!

That coaches list is very New York-centered.

I don't see how Wannstedt isn't on there. He's just as bad as Norv Turner.

Some of these are just bizarre. It seems that may owners are on the list simply for moving a team -- e.g., Shenkarow, Green, et al. or simply wanting to (Bennett). Indeed, seeing that Keri doesn't list Steinbrenner, one wonders how he includes O'Malley on the list, who was certainly viewed favorably by Los Angelinos. Doesn't the inclusion of Al Davis also violate this alleged standard?

And Eddie DeBartolo? How many San Franciscans are able to hate him when he brought the city four Super Bowls?

I'm not even going to get into the rankings, which are barely above arbitrary.

This is easily the worst column of Keri's that I've read since he moved to ESPN. Very disappointing, considering that I do like his work.

Not a chance. Pure coincidence.

You're probably right, although Frazee may have seen it as one more way that Ruth was going to create trouble for himself.

I know that you wrote that tongue in cheek, but in terms of public acceptance there is a teeny weeny itsy bitsy wittle bit of a difference between alcohol during prohibition and steroids today.

Yes, clearly, the opposition to alcohol was much, much greater than the opposition to steroids. No one is running around trying to pass a constitutional amendment banning steroids.

FTR, I have no major beefs with the GM or coaches articles. Sure there could be some slighted, but any list is bound to have criticism of some sort.

I know that you wrote that tongue in cheek, but in terms of public acceptance there is a teeny weeny itsy bitsy wittle bit of a difference between alcohol during prohibition and steroids today.

Yes, clearly, the opposition to alcohol was much, much greater than the opposition to steroids. No one is running around trying to pass a constitutional amendment banning steroids.

Well, that's two tongue in cheeks in a row, I guess, but I also doubt if every big city has half a dozen steroideasies on every block, either, frequented by nearly every newspaper reporter in town. And while Prohibition was openly ridiculed outside the Bible Belt and the small towns (which also had their share of bootleggers), you won't find many people outside the libertarians openly defend the use of steroids by ballplayers.

Now the third tongue and cheek response and you're own your own....

George Shinn, Charlotte Hornets: The complete résumé. Shinn oversaw a series of terrible personnel moves, tried to strong-arm the city into a new arena deal, then convinced the NBA to let him move the team to New Orleans instead of selling to another ownership group that would keep the Hornets in Charlotte.

The article forgot to mention George Shinn's connection to a rogue helicopter pilot.

George Shinn, Charlotte Hornets: The complete résumé. Shinn oversaw a series of terrible personnel moves, tried to strong-arm the city into a new arena deal, then convinced the NBA to let him move the team to New Orleans instead of selling to another ownership group that would keep the Hornets in Charlotte.

Shinn also tried to use Katrina as a reason to move the Hornets, and the NBA vetoed that.

Funny thing, the Hornets were always in the top 10 in attendance in the NBA until Shinn started his stadium games, and now the Hornets are in the bottom 5 in attendance (and were before Katrina). The Bobcats are also struggling, the Carolinians just don't trust the NBA anymore.

Funny thing, the Hornets were always in the top 10 in attendance in the NBA until Shinn started his stadium games, and now the Hornets are in the bottom 5 in attendance (and were before Katrina). The Bobcats are also struggling, the Carolinians just don't trust the NBA anymore.

Every team should get a free state of the art arena every 15 years. It should be in the Constitution.

I'm not even going to get into the rankings, which are barely above arbitrary.

Man, you're taking this too seriously. The whole exercise is arbitrary. O'Malley belongs on that list becuse even a half-century later, people really really love to hate him.

I only see one big oversight on the GM list - Jerry Krause. Sure he won 6 title, but the list is GMs We Love to Hate. And I have never seen a GM people love to hate more than Jerry Krause. He's the Howard Cosell of sports management.

I can't think of any major ommissions from the coaches list. Maybe Forrest Gregg.

O'Malley belongs on that list becuse even a half-century later, people really really love to hate him.

The same is true about George Steinbrenner and Marge Schott, who by Keri's "rules" were ineligible.

And Eddie DeBartolo? How many San Franciscans are able to hate him when he brought the city four Super Bowls?

Five.

And he is beloved by San Franciscans. Way more than anybody who has ever owned the Giants. Once or twice the city went into a frenzy over a rumor that the NFL would let Eddie buy the team again.

Actually - you know what would be an interesting/difficult list? Most beloved owners:

Art Rooney and his son Dan are definitely on that list. The irony of Pittsburgh is that for as craptacular as the Pirate ownership has been for the past (almost) 50, the Steeler ownership has been that *good* for that same amount of time.

Once upon a time, Peter Angelos was beloved. He was the only owner to refuse to field a scab team in 1995.

I also doubt if every big city has half a dozen steroideasies on every block

Sure they do. It's called Gold's Gym. Now it is true that you won't see a lot of sports reporters in there, which is a shame. They might stumble onto a story or two.

Once upon a time, Peter Angelos was beloved. He was the only owner to refuse to field a scab team in 1995.

I remember that. For a little while, he was basically Mark Cuban. He was going to take good care of his players and spend whatever it took to win.

DeJesus, I listed O'Malley under Brooklyn, not L.A. In Brooklyn, they hated the guy for moving the team. Obviously in L.A. he was much more popular. I'd add, though, that Caple had a nice piece today on P2 that noted how the Dodgers were having some legitimate struggles in Brooklyn and that the Giants were in really bad shape by the end of their NY days too. The move of both teams to the West Coast was a great thing for baseball (and sports in general). It's just that many people in NYC still hated O'Malley and Stoneham for it.

The DeBartolo comment was poorly constructed, though, agreed on that. I meant to focus on the awful John York (who's completely despised in SF), and botched how I wanted to explain the transition from Eddie D to York. Despite DeBartolo's legal troubles, you're of course right that he's forever loved in the Bay Area.

Had anyone outside Connecticut known about the existence of the Hartford Whalers, Peter Karmanos would've made the list. He threatened to move the team unless season ticket goals were met, then moved the team anyway despite the fans having exceeded the goals. That's gotta count for something on this kind of list.

Let's see... you have a player who uses illegal substances, sleeps around, and is immensely talented so you can't help but pay attention to him. I wonder how the media would respond to that today.

That's 2 out of 3 for Tom Brady.

I'd add, though, that Caple had a nice piece today on P2 that noted how the Dodgers were having some legitimate struggles in Brooklyn and that the Giants were in really bad shape by the end of their NY days too.

The HBO documentary on the Brooklyn years covered this really well: because Brooklyn was being slowly but surely depopulated by people moving to the suburbs, attendance at Ebbets Field was dropping dramatically. O'Malley wanted to build a new park with lots of parking to accomodate the increasing number of fans who would be driving in from Long Island - he wanted it to be in Brooklyn, Robert Moses wanted it in Flushing. O'Malley threatened to move unless Moses relented, Moses called his bluff, and O'Malley picked up his stakes. Eventually, Moses got his Flushing stadium anyway.

O'Malley still deserves to be hated for how he forced out Branch Rickey

DeJesus, I listed O'Malley under Brooklyn, not L.A. In Brooklyn, they hated the guy for moving the team. Obviously in L.A. he was much more popular. I'd add, though, that Caple had a nice piece today on P2 that noted how the Dodgers were having some legitimate struggles in Brooklyn and that the Giants were in really bad shape by the end of their NY days too. The move of both teams to the West Coast was a great thing for baseball (and sports in general). It's just that many people in NYC still hated O'Malley and Stoneham for it.

Fair enough, Jonah. I did see how, in other articles, you specified earlier teams (such as Belicheck with the Browns and Jets, rather than with the Patriots). I hadn't yet read the coaches article when I fired off my owners rant.

Still, Al Davis? Yeah, he's had problems over the last 20 years or so, but he has to have as many supporters as Marge Schott ever had.

And Karmanos helped force the lockout cause he couldn't get anyone to show up in Raleigh! He's well hated in Canada, trust me.

I remember that. For a little while, he was basically Mark Cuban. He was going to take good care of his players and spend whatever it took to win.

Baltimoreans were also happy that Angelos was taking a stand to preserve The Streak.

Actually - you know what would be an interesting/difficult list? Most beloved owners:

It's easier to destroy than build.

#72. They were breaking up and the girlfriend pulled the goalie. That's not sleeping around.

And Karmanos helped force the lockout cause he couldn't get anyone to show up in Raleigh! He's well hated in Canada, trust me.

Lockout worked. Karmanos' team is one of the better attended, and they won a Stanley Cup.

Peter Angelos is taking notes now...

In 1958, Calvin Griffith publicly announced the Senators would never leave Washington "in my lifetime." I guess he must've then died in October 1960 without telling anybody. (Actually, Griffith would have been a lot less hated if he had taken an expansion franchise for Minnesota and left the Senators organization intact in D.C. for the new owners. The core of that team evolved into the '65 AL pennant winners and were consistent contenders for close to a decade.)

And the Frazee-Joe Jackson story is a new one to me. Imagine how baseball history would have been changed with Babe Ruth on the South Side...the Chisox might have been able to withstand the loss of many of the Black Sox players, the Yankees would never have become a power, and the Giants might have remained the dominant team in NYC for a few more decades (and then might never have had to leave).

And just like that, Bill Wirtz dies. Eery timing.

Good riddance.

I'm happy for the Blackhawks and their fans, but I can't say that I'm happy to see anyone dead. It's just too callous.

Where's Donald Sterling?

I will never go to another Blackhawks game again until Bill Wirtz is dead.

Remind me never to piss off Jimmy P.

Every team should get a free state of the art arena every 15 years. It should be in the Constitution.

That's what really cracked me up about Shinn. The arena he already had was a beautiful, new state of the art facility.

Yikes. I mean, Wirtz was a lousy owner, but I wouldn't actually wish death on anyone.

With that said, given my newfound power, I'd like to officially request that the 1994 baseball strike be eliminated, the Expos win the World Series, and baseball thrives in Montreal.

Just remember that Wirtz may be gone, but we still have the Bidwills.

Oh, and Jonah, I'll support your Montreal wish on the condition that you also make sure Bob Hope, and not Bob Short, buys the Senators after the 1968 season. (It almost happened.)

With that said, given my newfound power, I'd like to officially request that the 1994 baseball strike be eliminated, the Expos win the World Series, and baseball thrives in Montreal.

STRONGLY CONCUR.

Yikes. I mean, Wirtz was a lousy owner, but I wouldn't actually wish death on anyone.

You guys are pussies. I can think of hundreds of people I want dead. The three people ahead of me in line when I was getting coffee this morning--I wish them all death by ebola virus. GRRR! I am become death, the destroyer of worlds!

jeez, I hope you guys didn't know that Wirtz was suffering from cancer when this began. That's ... uncomfortable

jeez, I hope you guys didn't know that Wirtz was suffering from cancer when this began. That's ... uncomfortable

People in the Chicago area have been saying this on a daily basis for a long time. The guy genuinely destroyed interest in the Blackhawks, and the overwhelming opinion was the only way things would change with the franchise was his demise. Jimmy P. just happened to write it a few days before his actual death.

I admit I said Hoo-ray when I saw the Wirtz headline. After further contemplation do I feel guilty?

No! -I have heard he was a real jerk in his business dealings.

I used to go to a lot of games in the Hull-Mikita era. Few empty seats then, some games with turn-away crowds. I guess that has changed.

One good thing about Wirtz management the Stadium beer sellers never turned away customers merely because they were way underage or falling down drunk (or both).

I will never go to another Blackhawks game again until Bill Wirtz is dead.

Well, he's dead.

####, I should watch what I say, although I never wished him dead. I just said I'd never go to another Hawks game until he was dead.