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Tuesday, July 27, 2010

ESPN: Matthews: Joba is out of a job

WARNING: Beveridge curve ahead.

After the game, another direct question was put to Girardi: Was his use of Robertson and Logan in the eighth an indication that he had lost faith in Chamberlain?

“I think that would be a misinterpretation of tonight’s events,’’ he said. “I’m not saying I’m handing it over to Joba every time we go to the eighth. I’m gonna look at things. That’s my job. I liked the matchup of Robertson versus Cabrera and I liked the matchup of Boonie against Choo.’‘

And if that didn’t work out? “Then I had Mo up and ready to go,’’ Girardi said.

In short, Chamberlain—a phenom in 2007, a sensation for most of 2008, a favorite for the starting rotation in 2009 and a washout in the spring training competition for the fifth starter job this year, was never in the mix Monday night.

Now it’s tough to determine where he fits on this team anymore or whether he fits at all.

For a manager who has been open about his desire for his relievers to have definite roles, one of which was Chamberlain pitching the eighth, it is a remarkable change of heart—and for Chamberlain, a most disturbing change of status.

Repoz Posted: July 27, 2010 at 11:18 AM | 24 comment(s) | Login to Bookmark
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1. Big Train Posted: July 27, 2010 at 11:51 AM (#3600332)

well, its important they #### with his head as much as possible now, so his arm can't hurt him down the road when another team picks him up.

2. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 27, 2010 at 11:54 AM (#3600334)

For a manager who has been open about his desire for his relievers to have definite roles, one of which was Chamberlain pitching the eighth, it is a remarkable change of heart—and for Chamberlain, a most disturbing change of status.

This is utter BS. Have we become so enamored with the cult of bullpen specialization that a struggling RP can't be moved to lower leverage innings for a while?

3. Rich Posted: July 27, 2010 at 12:06 PM (#3600344)

It has become an issue at least partly because Girardi waited so long to make any change in how he delegates the 8th inning role.

They need to send Joba down before August 7th.

4. kthejoker Posted: July 27, 2010 at 12:35 PM (#3600358)

As usual, the issue here is not the strategy, but the communication. Players state it again and again, the most important thing for them is to "know their role" (and be happy with it, natch.)

Does Joba know they're moving him to lower leverage innings? Does Girardi have an actual plan for him?

The quotes make it seem kind of off-the-cuff, which is what Girardi wanted to avoid earlier in the year. As long as Joba knows what's going on, it doesn't matter.

5. Smiling Joe Hesketh Posted: July 27, 2010 at 12:37 PM (#3600361)

They need to send Joba down before August 7th.

Can you expand on this? Why that particular date?

6. Rich Posted: July 27, 2010 at 12:46 PM (#3600377)

Can you expand on this? Why that particular date?

I believe it's the deadline for sending Joba to the minor leagues without him having to clear waivers. It will be the three year anniversary of his ML debut.

7. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 27, 2010 at 12:57 PM (#3600394)

Players state it again and again, the most important thing for them is to "know their role" (and be happy with it, natch.)

Sure they say this, but is there any evidence that it actually matters in terms of performance?

Robertson and Logan didn't have any problem last night pitching in the 8th instead of the 7th.

I seriously doubt there is any correlation between stability of "roles" and bullpen performance. It probably actually hurts performance b/c you don't optimize matchups, esp. L/R.

8. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 27, 2010 at 01:00 PM (#3600397)

I believe it's the deadline for sending Joba to the minor leagues without him having to clear waivers. It will be the three year anniversary of his ML debut.

I firmly believe Joba needs to go to AAA and pitch in the rotation there for a while. He needs to figure out his command, mixing his pitches, etc. in a low pressure environment. You just don't get enough batters faced as a short reliever to really work things out.

9. Nasty Nate Posted: July 27, 2010 at 01:05 PM (#3600403)

He's only "out of a job" if they release him, or send him to the minors. Relief pitchers have risen and fallen in their managers' pecking order of trust for decades, and no one would care about in this case except it involves this undeservedly famous reliever.

Even for my over-exposed and over-anaylzed Sox, no one marked the occasion when Bard began getting more important innings than Okajima.

10. RJ not in TO

Posted: July 27, 2010 at 01:14 PM (#3600411)

I believe it's the deadline for sending Joba to the minor leagues without him having to clear waivers. It will be the three year anniversary of his ML debut.

I thought you only had to clear waivers if you were out of options, regardless of how long it has been since you made your MLB debut.

11. Best Regards, Larry Mahnken (Dewey is a slacker) Posted: July 27, 2010 at 01:44 PM (#3600447)

12. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 27, 2010 at 02:00 PM (#3600465)

I 100% agree that Joba needs to go down the minors. He's still got excellent stuff, and can still blow guys away. But he struggles with his command a lot, either walking guys or leaving the pitch over the fat part of the plate.

2007 was bad for him. He was dominant without having to really pitch because he threw 100mph (he now throws 93-94), and it seems he hasn't learned how to pitch yet.

Generally agree, but the drop-off isn't that bad. In 2007 he averaged 97.4 on the FB, this year it's 94.4. Also, if you look at the charts, he's gradually been building velocity all year.

But, the larger point is, he's got plenty good stuff, he just needs to learn how to pitch. Late inning in close games for the Yankees is no place to do that.

13. Rich Posted: July 27, 2010 at 02:05 PM (#3600470)

I thought you only had to clear waivers if you were out of options, regardless of how long it has been since you made your MLB debut.

...Joba has all 3 of his options left, since he’s never been sent down since being called up in 2007. But once a player reaches the 3 year mark, he has to pass through waivers before he can be sent down. Joba’s MLB debut was August 7th, 2007. So he has about 3 weeks to get straightened out before the Yanks have to make a decision on him.

link

14. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: July 27, 2010 at 02:09 PM (#3600475)

The quotes make it seem kind of off-the-cuff, which is what Girardi wanted to avoid earlier in the year. As long as Joba knows what's going on, it doesn't matter.

Is there any evidence that Joba doesn't know what's going on? Aside from the fact that Girardi doesn't want to tell Wally Matthews everything he says to his players?

I thought you only had to clear waivers if you were out of options, regardless of how long it has been since you made your MLB debut.

According to Keith Law via Mike Axisa:

There is a rule rarely invoked in baseball that creates a situation where a player who has options remaining still has to clear waivers to be sent on an optional assignment. If the assignment is to begin at least three full calendar years from the date of the player’s first appearance on a 25-man roster, then the player can not be sent on an optional assignment without first clearing major league waivers.

15. Harveys Wallbangers

Posted: July 27, 2010 at 02:17 PM (#3600484)

Once Ken Macha started tossing guys into the game randomly save for Axeford who is the closer the bullpen performance improved. Each of them spoke to needing to be ready whenever versus "The seventh came and went, guess I am not needed" and letting down mentally.

this is something I have been pounding on for a while which is how aligning relievers to certain innings creates a negative impact for any game that does not follow a predetermined script. Which is the vast majority of games.

16. The Good Face Posted: July 27, 2010 at 02:19 PM (#3600489)

Generally agree, but the drop-off isn't that bad. In 2007 he averaged 97.4 on the FB, this year it's 94.4. Also, if you look at the charts, he's gradually been building velocity all year.

A drop of 3 MPH on a fastball is a significant difference. That said, I think your larger point is accurate. Joba still has enough stuff to be an effective big league pitcher, but he needs to learn to pitch with his current level of stuff. I have no clue if he's capable of doing that, but the status quo doesn't seem to be tenable.

17. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 27, 2010 at 02:22 PM (#3600496)

A drop of 3 MPH on a fastball is a significant difference.

Sure, but it's not 6 or 7 MPH which is what Larry's post implies.

Sitting 93-94 with the ability to go up to 96-97 is plenty of stuff to succeed, as you say.

18. bunyon Posted: July 27, 2010 at 02:25 PM (#3600502)

this is something I have been pounding on for a while which is how aligning relievers to certain innings creates a negative impact for any game that does not follow a predetermined script. Which is the vast majority of games.

Exactly. And how is your role not clear if your manager says, "Be ready to pitch any time I call the bullpen." Your role, should you need to know it, is to be a relief pitcher.

19. Mayor Blomberg Posted: July 27, 2010 at 02:43 PM (#3600531)

Two hours before the first pitch of Monday night's New York Yankees-Cleveland Indians game at Progressive Field, a direct question was put to Yankees manager Joe Girardi: All things being equal -- meaning both guys are healthy, well-rested and ready to pitch -- who is your eighth-inning guy, Joba Chamberlain or David Robertson?
"I'd probably lean towards Joba right now,'' he said. "We'll look at matchups and how it equates to certain guys, but I'd probably lean towards Joba.''
...
Well, he might have been leaning toward Chamberlain before the first pitch was thrown, but now, with the game on the line, he called for Robertson.
"I looked at the charts and I looked at everything and I liked the matchup,'' he said. "So I thought I'd go to Robby there.''

Lessee, before the game he says his final decision will be based on the matchup. After the game he tells you his decision was based on the matchup.

Looks like you caught him in a truth, you did.

20. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 27, 2010 at 02:57 PM (#3600549)

21. CrosbyBird Posted: July 27, 2010 at 03:10 PM (#3600572)

Chamberlain! Out of a Joba!

/Sterling

22. Don't want the truth; just wanna see some dingers Posted: July 27, 2010 at 03:30 PM (#3600598)

You know who else is out of a job? 10% of Americans!!!

23. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: July 27, 2010 at 07:19 PM (#3600845)

You know who else is out of a job? 10% of Americans!!!

Are you sure it isn't 1%? That's what the Catholic Church keeps saying.

24. Big fan Posted: July 27, 2010 at 08:41 PM (#3600927)

not to mix in politics, but to quote John Stewart's Daily Show
Without the stimulus it would have been worse - like 13% or 15% or 140% or maybe even 14,000%...

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ESPN: Matthews: Joba is out of a job

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