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Wednesday, December 03, 2008

ESPN: Neyer: Yankees shouldn’t consider moving Jeter to 2B

Weeeee!...I bet lawyers had an easier time defending Melvin “Sex Beast” Rees!

It’s more likely that Jeter’s relatively poor performance this year was due more to randomness than decrepitude, and I expect him to bounce back nicely next year with something like 25 Win Shares. Well, more than 20, anyway. And if you can rack up 20 Win Shares, you can play every day for just about anybody.

Which isn’t to suggest the Yankees should throw a billion dollars at Jeter next winter (or sooner). Because if they’re paying him a ton of money for five years, they’re going to feel like they have to play him regularly for five years, and in four or five years he will not be good enough to play every day. For the Yankees the money isn’t the issue; the issue is the games, the at-bats, the plate appearances.

And as Goldman suggests, second base probably isn’t the answer. Even if he can actually play second base, whatever you gain in defense you’re likely to lose in positional scarcity. What you’re trying to do is win games, and you don’t win any more games with Jeter playing second base than you win with him playing shortstop. Essentially it’s quite a simple thing: Aside from the likely uptick next season, Jeter’s going to become less and less valuable over the next five or six years because there’s really no other way for the math to work.

Do you think the Steinbrothers will have the courage to let him become less and less valuable for some other team?

Repoz Posted: December 03, 2008 at 09:16 AM | 32 comment(s)
  Related News: GeneralSabermetricsProjectionsNY Yankees

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   1. Shooty Did Not Kill McGurk  Posted: December 03, 2008 at 08:21 AM (#3019617)
I agree that 2nd is not the answer for Jeter. I'm terrified that Hankenstein trolls BBTF and will pick up on Vlad's Jeter to CF and Furcal to SS idea. Then I remember that Hank is busy running a second rate casino out of the way somewhere and all is well again.
   2. AROM  Posted: December 03, 2008 at 09:04 AM (#3019624)
I'm sure that once upon a time Jeter would have made a fine CF, he had the skills for it. But I don't think putting a 35 year old in center for on the job training would be anything but a disaster.

I think his best bet to remain an elite player would be to play 1B or DH, and being able to concentrate on hitting allows a late career surge, like Paul Molitor. But that's no guarantee.
   3. Cowboy Popup  Posted: December 03, 2008 at 09:19 AM (#3019631)
But I don't think putting a 35 year old in center for on the job training would be anything but a disaster.

Agreed.

I think his best bet to remain an elite player would be to play 1B or DH, and being able to concentrate on hitting allows a late career surge, like Paul Molitor. But that's no guarantee.

I think he could be useful in right, it's a small field in YS and he's got a good enough arm, but I think the DH option may be the best, but they better have a stacked lineup in case it doesn't work.
   4. Craig Calcaterra  Posted: December 03, 2008 at 09:24 AM (#3019634)
I think his best bet to remain an elite player would be to play 1B or DH, and being able to concentrate on hitting allows a late career surge, like Paul Molitor.


This may sound strange, but it strikes me that the best thing that could happen for Jeter and the Yankees is an injury. Not one that puts him out of commission, but one that allows everyone involved to couch a move to DH as a Molitor-like thing rather than it being about hiding his glove.
   5. RB in NYC (Now with Resolutions!)  Posted: December 03, 2008 at 09:27 AM (#3019636)
This isn't to knock Rob, but is there serious talk of moving Jeter to second base? I assume this would be part of some kind of plan that invovles trading Cano, but even at Jeter's defensive best, putting him at second base seems to maximize his weakness (range) while minimizing his strength (his arm). What kind of plan is that?
   6. AROM  Posted: December 03, 2008 at 09:42 AM (#3019645)
I credit the MLB06 game with the idea. I played with Jeter during the 2011 season, he got his 3000th hit while serving as fulltime DH.
   7. OCD SS  Posted: December 03, 2008 at 09:59 AM (#3019657)
How would any position change affect his ability to make jump throws? I hear that's an integral part of his defensive game...
   8. JRVJ (formerly Delta Socrates)  Posted: December 03, 2008 at 10:13 AM (#3019675)
What I'd really like to read is a column from Goldman on the Yanks reasoning on not offering arbitration to Pettitte, Abreu or I-Rod (not offering arbitration to Mussina seems insanely dumb to me, but that's another topic).

One of the Riverave guys wrote an excelent analysis of the issue today:

which you can read here, but what I like is the admission of something that I think has been fetishised too much, which is the value of draft picks......

(Me? I think the Yankees will end-up signing some bargain basement FAs and/or taking on some fairly expensive veterans in salary dump trades, the latter for pennies on the dollar).
   9. Crispix Attacks is in the best shape of his life.  Posted: December 03, 2008 at 10:16 AM (#3019680)
This may sound strange, but it strikes me that the best thing that could happen for Jeter and the Yankees is an injury. Not one that puts him out of commission, but one that allows everyone involved to couch a move to DH as a Molitor-like thing rather than it being about hiding his glove.

Hint taken, boss. Want us to work his torso, or break his arms?
   10. Shooty Did Not Kill McGurk  Posted: December 03, 2008 at 10:21 AM (#3019688)
Hint taken, boss. Want us to work his torso, or break his arms?

This is Jeter. Just set him up with a woman with diabolical vaginal muscle control.
   11. RB in NYC (Now with Resolutions!)  Posted: December 03, 2008 at 10:24 AM (#3019693)
diabolical vaginal muscle control
I think I saw them play at CBGB's once
   12. Craig Calcaterra  Posted: December 03, 2008 at 10:54 AM (#3019728)
This is Jeter. Just set him up with a woman with diabolical vaginal muscle control.


Sorry, A-Rod's already dating her.
   13. Dayton Moore is a Big Fat Idiot (AG#1F)  Posted: December 03, 2008 at 10:57 AM (#3019734)
FIST PUMP!
   14. Roger Cedeno's Spleen  Posted: December 03, 2008 at 10:59 AM (#3019739)
diabolical vaginal muscle control


I think I saw them play at CBGB's once


They opened for Throbbing Gristle, right?
   15. Shooty Did Not Kill McGurk  Posted: December 03, 2008 at 11:01 AM (#3019740)
They opened for Throbbing Gristle, right?

I have the urge to rewatch Videodrome all of a sudden.
   16. As foretold by the prophesy (JFSE)  Posted: December 03, 2008 at 11:04 AM (#3019743)
   17. Run Joe Run (Illonardo)  Posted: December 03, 2008 at 11:40 AM (#3019789)
Bill James said something like this about Rickey Henderson and I feel the same way about Jeter -

The Yankees should have two goals - first, make sure that Derek Jeter dies in a Yankee uniform; and second, make sure that he lives as long as possible.
   18. Shooty Did Not Kill McGurk  Posted: December 03, 2008 at 11:43 AM (#3019797)
diabolical vaginal muscle control

There ya go. Make Jeter a problem for the Coors Lite Silver Bullets to worry about.
   19. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad)  Posted: December 03, 2008 at 11:52 AM (#3019811)
"I'm terrified that Hankenstein trolls BBTF and will pick up on Vlad's Jeter to CF and Furcal to SS idea."

I really hope this happens. If it works, I get to be a genius, and if it flops, I get to watch New York go totally batshit crazy.
   20. Best Regards, Larry Mahnken  Posted: December 03, 2008 at 01:02 PM (#3019896)
Jeter's bad season was the result of his playing throught injuries, IMO.
   21. Nasty Nate  Posted: December 03, 2008 at 01:12 PM (#3019905)
The Yankees should have two goals - first, make sure that Derek Jeter dies in a Yankee uniform


maybe while he's taking a lead off of second. who should be the visiting team?
   22. Crispix Attacks is in the best shape of his life.  Posted: December 03, 2008 at 01:14 PM (#3019908)
Jeter's bad season was the result of his playing throught injuries, IMO.

OK boss, you're saying throat injuries won't slow him down enough to move him off shortstop. I'll bring the crowbar.
   23. PreservedFish  Posted: December 03, 2008 at 01:32 PM (#3019930)
For the entire history of BTF people have been predicting that Jeter NEEDS to switch positions within a year or two.

I still don't see it happening any time soon. Jeter might be there when he's 40.
   24. phredbird  Posted: December 03, 2008 at 01:43 PM (#3019953)
Jeter's bad season was the result of his playing throught injuries, IMO.


agree. didn't he have a knee thing a while back? that said, he is in decline. they should have moved him to 3rd a while back, methinks. in fact, why can't they swap him and a-rod? cuts down the amount of ground he has to cover and i've never heard he has a bad arm. what's the problem there besides the shock and consternation among mediots and fans?
moving him to 2nd is a nonstarter, its just too much like short but with the added abuse 2nd basemen take. fuggetaboutit.
   25. AROM  Posted: December 03, 2008 at 02:05 PM (#3019989)
I still don't see it happening any time soon. Jeter might be there when he's 40.


How many SS stayed there to age 40? Ozzie, Vizquel, Wagner...any others stat as regular SS that late? Jeter's not the worst defensive shortstop ever, but he's probably the worst among those who played as many games there as he has.
   26. Mike Green  Posted: December 03, 2008 at 02:17 PM (#3020012)
At Battersbox, we were asked six weeks ago to provide the headline and story for the 2009 World Champions. Mine read:


Rodriguez christens the new stadium with its first World Series triumph and then marries Madonna

Shortstop Alex Rodriguez thrilled a full house of Yankee fans in the inaugural year of the new stadium with 3 homers in a 10-1 shellacking of the Arizona Diamondbacks to seal the World Series for the Bombers 4 games to 1. Rodriguez, who was so brilliant in the second half of the season after regular Derek Jeter was sidelined by a knee injury, celebrated the victory by marrying Madonna, who had sung the national anthem, at home plate after the game. Jeter and companion Hillary Clinton were the best man and maid of honour respectively.


Surprisingly, my story made no mention of whether Jeter's knee injury bore any relation to Clinton's diabolical control or lack thereof. If it is, I wonder how duelling Kegels would work.
   27. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad)  Posted: December 03, 2008 at 02:21 PM (#3020019)
"How many SS stayed there to age 40? Ozzie, Vizquel, Wagner...any others stat as regular SS that late?"

Luke Appling and Barry Larkin did it. Rabbit Maranville probably could've, but he got moved to 2B after his age 39 season.

Still a pretty rare breed.
   28. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory)  Posted: December 03, 2008 at 03:04 PM (#3020091)
diabolical vaginal muscle control

#16 reminds me of Dr. Adder.
   29. phredbird  Posted: December 03, 2008 at 03:27 PM (#3020109)
Jeter and companion Hillary Clinton


not chelsea?
   30. Mike Green  Posted: December 03, 2008 at 03:37 PM (#3020123)
Nah, 60 is the new 25 in New York. Besides, the shortstop of the Yankees whispering in the ear of the Secretary of State has faint echoes of another time (DiMaggio-Monroe-Kennedy). Didn't Kissinger say something about power and aphrodisiacs?
   31. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad)  Posted: December 03, 2008 at 03:41 PM (#3020130)
"Didn't Kissinger say something about power and aphrodisiacs?"

Yes, but as an ugly-but-powerful person, he's not entirely unbiased here.
   32. jwb  Posted: December 03, 2008 at 03:50 PM (#3020143)
Jeter's not the worst defensive shortstop ever
In terms of career value, he has a HUGE lead.
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