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Sitcom I finally gave up on this year: 30 Rock. Wow - was that a steep dropoff.
Sitcoms I might add: P&R;(probably will get the nod), Modern Family (have yet to see it)
Favorite all-time: Arrested Development
Favorite 80s: Sledgehammer (granted, I haven't seen it since it was on the air)
***
I thought Moore's character on 30 Rock was pretty useless.
This is a pretty popular viewpoint, but I don't understand it. It hasn't been as good as past seasons, but it's still been very entertaining, particularly the most recent episode where they go to Boston. I've watched it at least three times already, just laughing myself silly each time.
Nightcourt and Cheers are pretty much the only shows that I have watched that were originally from the 80's. They are pretty much the only two sitcoms from that era that didn't try to teach us anything and last more than a season.
I'm amazed how forgotten "Murphy Brown" has become. It was pretty smart, topical, not too preachy, and even as a kid I thought it was funny. I don't ever see reruns of it. I would have thought it would be revered like M*A*S*H which I see tons of reruns airing to this day.
Another underrated show from the 80s that didn't try to teach us anything - Newhart. They ran a marathon last fall and the show still cracks me up today.
murphy brown: i was a kid as well and liked it, though i remember being turned off by the show toward the end...
As someone who got to enjoy the glory of Canadian music videos from that era, that episode damn near killed me.
Another short-lived series - Wizards and Warriors - D&D;come to life as a humorous adventure.
I was going to bring it up, but I couldn't remember how long it ran for.
To my horror, I see that it lasted for eight years. How was this allowed to happen?
The James Franco episode was pretty good too. I'm still upset they got rid of Josh though.
Yeah, that was disappointing. His audition to rejoin the show was absolutely hilarious though. That whole episode was great, really. Kathy Geiss singing? Fantastic.
Edit: Not to mention one of my favorite lines of the season, "Hey Dot-Com, nice to meet you."
Charles In Charge
In particular, the 1987-1990 2nd run. The 1984 one with the "old" family was skippable, but average.
With Ellen Travolta as Charles' mom. The best ones are actually directed by Scott Baio himself.
HIMYM has its moments but I catch too many inconsistencies in the narrative to call it as brilliant as many say it is. Plus, the two non-Jason Segal/Alyson Hannigan/NPH characters are a bore. The other three are terrific, though.
The Big Bang Theory is indeed a mediocre cookie-cutter sitcom but Jim Parsons makes it well worth watching. He's one of the best characters on television, I think.
I do not think News Radio is underrated. It seems about properly rated to me, since everyone I know (myself included) think it was pretty great.
This. Jim and Pam are the least likable characters on the show, after Michael.
I watch it for Dwight and the secondary characters, but the show doesn't really hold up to repeat viewings.
A writing group I was in was having problems with people not doing the work they were supposed to. So we made a rule that anyone who was late twice in a row had to write pornographic Everybody Loves Raymond fanfiction for the next meeting. Fortunately it never came to that. To quote #33, "Fear is a great motivator of the young."
I never finished it and don't think I could handle watching it again right now, but it's an excellent show, especially during the first couple seasons. Just be prepared for it to be depressing.
Interesting tidbit about Men of a Certain Age. Romano wrote the part of Owen for Wendell Pierce(Bunk) but Pierce was already working with Simon on Treme. Braugher is doing a great job but I can't help to think that Pierce would have been better in that role. It's not that I think Pierce is a better actor. It might be that I first encountered Braugher as a young Frank Pembleton and that's the enduring image I have of him.
Jim and Pam are the least likable characters on the show, after Michael.
I'm not sure why some people look for likable/good people. Hell, most people are likable - all I want is entertaining. I don't see Jim and Pam as worse than, say, Toby. Or Kelly. Or Ryan (certainly not Ryan). Or...
[Okay, Amy Ryan's character was pretty likable. In The Office, don't know about in The Wire yet.]
The first couple of seasons are outstanding television. It gets worse as it goes on, though, and the last season is pretty mediocre.
Nightcourt and Cheers are pretty much the only shows that I have watched that were originally from the 80's. They are pretty much the only two sitcoms from that era that didn't try to teach us anything and last more than a season.
This isn't entirely true; the Andrew Dice Clay episode of Night Court was preachier than public access TV on a Sunday morning. That was towards the end of the show's run, though, so maybe not a fair barometer.
The late Everybody Hates Chris was pretty funny.
It seemed okay, but the one full episode I saw (Chris joins the wrestling team, weighs so liitle he wins a bunch of matches by forfeit, eventually gets destroyed) was a direct ripoff from a Bernie Mac episode, and Bernie did it better. By the way, that's a good, underrated sitcom right there.
I think that most of what Jim and Pam did before they got together was reasonable and believable. After they got together, Pam completely changed character and became a bit of a #####.
Oh, and Dwight went from absurd weirdo to somehow strangely lovable.
Michael is still despicable, but that's the way it's supposed to be.
I always thought that. So did my wife. She bought me (us, really) the DVD set for Christmas one year and we learned that it hasn't really held up all that well.
I think Mad Men is excellent. I'm about two seasons into Battlestar Galactica and it's worth watching, though I don't think it's quite as good as everybody told me it was.
Also, Pierce is a funny ############. Maybe it's just how Bunk was written, but I doubt it.
Yes. Michael is a bad person, but that's the intention.
The audience is supposed to like Jim and Pam, and the longer the show goes on, the harder that gets.
I have no idea if that show was good, bad, genius or horrible, but it had Nicole Eggert, and as a 14 year old boy, that was enough.
Interestingly, the older sister recently guest starred on an episode of Chuck. Let's just say that she is enjoying a late peak. Nicole Eggert, on the other hand, seems to have peaked early.
I liked it as a kid as well but they ran out of stories to tell and went the preachy route at the end. Plus they started giving more screen time to the painter instead of just using him for a few funny lines like they used too.
Charles In Charge
In particular, the 1987-1990 2nd run. The 1984 one with the "old" family was skippable, but average.
With Ellen Travolta as Charles' mom. The best ones are actually directed by Scott Baio himself.
One day in high school I'm sitting there in business class when the principal comes over the PA to announce a tragedy. Former alum Scott Baio had died over the weekend. Everyone just kind of looked at each other and a "what the hell" look on their faces. Turns out a couple of kids pulled a prank on the principal. For the daily announcements you can submit anything you think is newsworthy and they might read them off over the PA. So they handed in the Scott Baio death announcement and the principal ran with it. Scott didn't even go to our school. Kids got suspended for a day or two. Stupid never could take a joke.
He left the show after the sixth of 10 seasons.
I'm probably in the minority on this, but I'm like this with Seinfeld. I find the reruns completely unwatchable.
If it's a minority, then it's a minority of two. The early episodes actually hold up better, IMO, before the show truly reached the Kramer's Completely Nuts/Elaine's a Complete Slut/All George Does is Yell stage. Episodes from the final two seasons just turn me off now.
Geez I hate to watch those last 4 seasons then because I thought it was getting pretty bad near the end of his run. What they do have Murphy go to a cable news channel or something?
Holy christ! That show was on until 1998? Man I think I stopped watching that around 1994 or so.
My favorite episode on that show had to do with the Republican landslide in 1994 and Stuart Best coming on the show and doing an interview with Murphy. One of the few times I actually had tears in eyes while watching a tv show.
Interesting, as I find Seinfeld the rare show whose seasons are indistinguishable from each other. Since there are no story arcs, I can't tell Season 3 from Season 5 from Season 2 from Season 6...
Except the very very very early episodes, when someone different was playing Jerry's father.
It lags after the first couple of seasons but finds its legs again and finishes very strong. Dark humor, and a little depressing. More than a little. I like that kind of stuff, so it's worth the effort (and the sniffles) of getting to the end. I think the last episode is one of the great series finales. That alone makes the whole experience worth while.
The friend who hooked me up with the box set said that the series actually affected his general mood, trending toward the worse. But that it was still worth it. To me, it's just good television, but consider that going in.
No story arcs? George's engagement (season 7), Elaine working for Mr. Pitt (season 6), Jerry's TV pilot (season 4) were pretty prominent arcs that make the seasons pretty easy to identify, I think.
You're right, I didn't consider those events. Still, I have no idea at what point in the show those events happened. I never watched it when it was on the air, though. I'm only familiar with it through syndication.
Rashad Tarkenton should never have thrown that pass.
I got to know the show after it was off the air as well, but watching the DVD box sets gives you a better feel for which episodes belong to which seasons. Watching the show in order has helped me appreciate it better.
Hand to God.
Jenna was gonna screw with some actor's mind who was auditioning for TGS by using the "biggest slam in show business" (or something to that effect) by saying "nice to meet you" to him even though they had already met years ago. Dot com is also auditioning for the part, which doesn't sit well with Tracy, so Tracy being Tracy, uses the line.
I can't remember the setup and Google is of no help. :(
Jenna decides she's going to try to get in the new guy's head and throw off his audition by pretending she doesn't remember him from the time they'd worked together before. She says to Tracy, "I'm going to use the four most vicious words you can say to a person you've already met: Nice to meet you." Then, when Dot-Com is about to audition, Tracy passes him in the hall and says, "Hey Dot-Com, nice to meet you." Dot-Com is completely thrown off his game and has a terrible audition as a result.
That's kind of the point with Pam. Old Pam was almost frighteningly weak-willed and passive. She's grown more assertive (esp after she broke up with Roy) and I'm glad for it. Jim's good-guy routine is wearing thin though. It's nice to see him struggle with having authority.
I don't get this (personally - analytically, I can see it) - doing that is totally in Michael's character. So would be sticking up for the guy and shooting himself in the foot.
Really? I thought it was totally out of character. Michael had done a lot of things up to that point, but this was the first time he knew he was screwing someone else over. The first time that I noticed, anyway.
Yeah, that episode was painful to watch. Not enjoyable.
1. Michael is so cringe-worthy, I can't stand to watch any scene where he's out in public. He's bad enough relating to the other employees, who have grudgingly accepted him. I saw about 30 seconds of the "Scott's Tots" storyline, thanks to TiVo's 30-second skip function. And that was 30 seconds too much.
2. I think they're showing how Jim, who was so likable and relatable early on, is slowly becoming Michael, Jr. At first, we were supposed to identify with him. I don't think we're supposed to like him anymore, and I think he knows he's not very likable (there have been several episodes where you can tell he realizes he's done something just the way Michael would). He's clearly uncomfortable in a supervisory role, but he's self-aware enough to notice (unlike Michael).
EDIT: Cokes to berselius and The Joe Mauer Power Hour (although again, thankfully I didn't actually watch much of that episode!)
But he did it for reasons that are clearly within the character's parameters. He wanted people to like him so he said something without thinking it all the way through and you'll notice that he did come clean about it.
Oh, it was very consistent behavior on his part. Didn't make it any less painful to watch (or any less easier to avoid in its entirety).
Absolutely. Smarter, different - but, yeah.
Obviously they are doing some similarity gags but for the most part they are playing Jim as a normal supervisor trying to work in an environment that Michael created. He is Michael's foil.
On a smaller level, the episode where he tries to return the surplus to get himself a bonus when the office needed equipment was pretty low on his part.
There was also an episode where he went on a blind date and made it clear to her that she wasn't attractive enough for him. That was pretty scummy.
I've said it before, but Michael Scott is basically a live-action version of Homer Simpson - in some episodes he's incredibly dumb, and in others he's a huge jerk. He's easier to take when he's dumb.
Not to mention dumping Pam's mom at lunch on her birthday in front of Pam and Jim. He's a real piece of work.
BURN HIM
I've said it before, but Michael Scott is basically a live-action version of Homer Simpson - in some episodes he's incredibly dumb, and in others he's a huge jerk. He's easier to take when he's dumb.
I agree. Cartoonishly dumb jerks work well in...cartoons. They don't work so well in live action.
And even then, Homer at least had some redeeming qualities, namely his devotion to Marge. Michael has some redeeming moments from time to time, but he doesn't really have any redeeming qualities. He's just kind of a narcissistic, desperate jerk.
The episode that pissed me off the most this season was the one where Dwight manipulated Jim into looking like he was trying to give an award to himself.
Eh, I call it payback for all the years of messing with Dwight. Not to mention if you believe their reputations as salesmen, Dwight probably deserved the promotion over Jim, at least based on work performed. I was more pissed that Jim let Michael fall into the koi pond.
Sure, but that's the kind of logic that gets you a boss like Michael Scott. Take a great salesman and turn him into a manager, where he does a miserable job forever, because he'll never earn another promotion. There's a term for this, and I can't remember it right now, but something about promoting everyone until they're incompetent, and that's where they stay forever, leading to incompetence throughout the organization.
Huh? But they're different jobs. Michael was apparently a heck of a salesman, but a terrible manager. Similarly, Dwight (a lunatic) would also be a terrible manager. Jim at least has some promise in that area...
EDIT: Instead of a Coke - Peter Principle.
That's the one! Thanks.
How many times has Michael been up for promotions, though? I forget why he wasn't but it was more than once, IIRC. And how many times did corporate honestly compliment the job he was doing? We know that Michael (and Dwight) have terrible social skills but they're both excellent salesmen. But that's another thing that bothers me about the show. I don't understand how those two who are so poor in dealing with other people become such great salesmen that they practically save the branch from being cut off.
EDIT: Coke to Russlan.
I would bet it's that Dwight is the top salesman in the company, and also all of northeastern PA (I think). That certainly wouldn't explain all of it though.
I came here to dispute this and point out that Hot Shots I and II were very funny, as was Men at Work. But you're right. He basically hasn't made a movie I even considered watching in over a decade.
And whoever called 2 1/2 Men a replacement level sitcom is right. Is it really in its eighth season?
I didn't like "Everybody Loves Raymond" when it was on the air and I was in HS/college. Every episode basically seemed the same. Now that I'm older, I can appreciate and relate to it more. And now that I've seen more of it, I've seen more range in the storyline.
The Office has grown on me as well, but it's not plausible that Michael (or Dwight, for that matter) would have been a successful salesman, or that he would have been promoted to regional manager, or that he would have kept that job for more than a month.
EDIT: Coke to Dock Ellis regarding the last point.
I just started watching Psych a few weeks ago. Really good show.
I hated that too, but not because I felt it unjust. It just required that Jim be a total f'ing moron, which he isn't; the entire premise was nonsense.
Indeed.
Wasn't that the same episode with Scott's Tots? What a horrible waste of time.
Only conservative.
I don't watch too many sitcoms — just 30 Rock right now — but there've been quite a few action shows on lately that I've come to enjoy. Burn Notice is great, White Collar started good and has gotten better with every show. The Human Target is solid fun, and Castle is more dramady than action, but I watch it, so it's listed here. And of course, Lost is back tonight.
Jim lost his character as soon as he got together with Pam; without his longing for her, it was too easy for him to fall into the sneering mode that he's occupied for the past three seasons. It's strange how many characters have followed transformative arcs like Jim's: Kelly made the sudden transition from quiet girl who slaps Michael to office bimbo around the middle of season 2, Ryan went from a normal twenty-something to megalomaniac as soon as he got his MBA, and Andy went from Machiavelli to borderline personality as soon as he returned from his anger management classes. Even Dwight has changed a bit, though I'm glad the writers have never softened his fascist nerd persona.
I'm not disputing whether or not something is funny but that after 1989 Charlie Sheen basically did a bunch of movies that would easily fit into the straight to video segment of hollywood which strikes me as odd since his rise in Hollywood was on par or close to it as Tom Cruise's rise. With the only difference, at least for me, being that Charlie Sheen played in far more ensemble type movies than Cruise did in the 80's.
Forgot that one, I like that show too. I'm a big fan of Nathan Fillion and Stana Katic is very easy on the eyes.
Fitting, as I believe Tom Cruise beat out Charlie Sheen for Born on the 4th of July, which came out in 1989. Cruise was nominated for an Oscar, and as you point out, Sheen started his run of crap.
Bland, bland, bland. And I *love* Nathan Fillion.
I didn't see every episode of Season 5 of It's Always Sunny, but the ones I did see, I felt like there was a huge drop in consistency. The peaks were as good as Season 4, but there were more valleys in between. And Seasons 1-3 are still the gold standard.
I haven't seen many episodes of The Office, but the ones I have, I enjoy the hell out of. I'm definitely going to pick up some DVDs sometimes soon, try to watch it in chronological order. I've only seen the first two episodes of How I Met Your Mother - I liked it, I'll also catch up to that at some point. I've never seen a minute of 30 Rock, but everybody I know raves, so I'll have to make a point of seeing that too.
I agree with whoever said that Two and a Half Men is perfect background TV fodder. It's never horrible, just vanilla, but there are some good lines here and there, and some really hot women, so it satisfies that need. I probably have a pretty low replacement level for TV, I'm very uncritical of something that only has to hold my attention for 20 minutes at a time and usually isn't serial. It's the same reason I have such problems judging short films - my standards are all out of whack.
It is a pretty good show but I'm glad they ended it and I like how everything unraveled at the end. It was one of the those shows that would just get really bad if it kept going since at some point everybody would realize the main guys weren't going anywhere.
Wasn't a big fan of the Glenn Close season but other than that it was one of my favorite dramas on the air. Rescue Me is another good one.
According to Jim
How I met your momma
2 1/2 men
Seinfeld
Friends
Greg and Dharma
According to Ray or whatever it's called
Home Improvement
Grey's Anatomy
Sitcoms I watch the second any new material becomes available to someone without a television and sometimes watch again:
Arrested Development
30 Rock
Scenes with Senor Chang in Community
Old Office
That's all. I guess I don't like sitcoms.
You should check out In the Loop, which came out last year and was just nominated for Best Adapted Screenplay. Rasche's character (an Asst Secretary of State) is more of a straight man, but the film is pretty funny.
Possibly the greatest accomplishment in television history. For those of you outside law enforcement/drug trafficking/education/media/union shop, it's 100% accurate don't to the most painstakingly dreadful dadaist performance management meeting.
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