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I only made it one episode into Undeclared. I think for similar reasons to kj.
All of the women on Firefly were hot, but there's just something about the way Joss writes that I find really cheesy and awkward. But I realize it's just me. Tons of people love him. And I did really enjoy Dr. Horrible.
Wonder Falls was another good one season show. Nowhere near Freaks and Geeks, though.
Dave, I watched many episodes of each of those three shows.
Amazon's deal of the day is the complete series of Deadwood for $75. Is that a good deal? Worth picking up? I loved Sopranos and The Wire, for reference.
I spent $150 on the whole series (and I'm kinda poor) and I think that was one of the best investments I've ever made. I'm in the middle of my fourth time through the series right now.
In art you can ignore decline phases.
James Dean does not slip past Marlon Brando just because he died early. Neil Young does not slump below Nick Drake.
Sorry, I assumed that everyone mocked Grey's Anatomy as poorly situated unintentional comedy. I put it in the same vein as "You Got Mail" for "Scariest Movie of All Time".
I've been watching reruns on TBS and the local FOX affiliate. He's been a grade A ######### the entire series.
It's not the greatest sit-com ever, but it holds up better, IMO, than a lot of other shows in syndication. After watching some re-runs last year, I was actually impressed with how they dealt with or confronted issues related to race. I didn't remember that from watching it growing up.
I was at a job candidate talk for an American Lit. position at BU last week, and one of the things that came up was the "new" television and its place in academic discourse. Everyone more or less agreed that the past decade had seen television become a worthy object of critical inquiry--and from a literary, not pop-culture studies, perspective. Driving this change was not merely HBO and the rise of unedited pay cable drama, but the technological advance of the DVD, which allows you to purchase something very much like a "text" and experience television shows as an unbroken sequence.
The comparison made was to Dickens novels: people read the serial installments every week, but they knew they would one day buy it as a novel and experience it in an unbroken arc. Also, just like Dickens novels are 900 pages long--something that most human beings wouldn't attempt in writing a standalone novel--so too are the stories of serial television drama far longer than any movie.
To go beyond WJs post, which I think is really interesting, it's almost as if we now have "artistes" who are making shows they know won't get renewed, or even aired completely, for the point of telling their story and "popular" writers who are consciously making an effort to appeal to a mass audience while they tell their story. Now, certainly, "artistes" sometimes make crap and "popular" writers sometimes make great shows but the distinction I'm making can also be found in the world of literature and movies. I'd say the late 90s and 00s are the first point at which we have "artistes" as a significant part of the TV landscape.
http://litimag.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/imp095
And there it is, the highlight of my career. Thank god I'm married or I'd be equivalent in life achievements to your average 14 year old.
I see now where my error of reading was. But don't worry, the academy bubble will burst in the next 10 years and you can laugh at all of us who have completely and irreversibly lost our survival skills.
I look forward to reading your paper after I get my own lecture in order.
Diddo on the Simpsons nod above. I haven't enjoyed a Simpsons episode in 10+ years, but the early peak (when adjust for context) is amazing. It's really an outlier when comparing animated shows.
Other animated shows I enjoy (in order):
South Park
Boondocks
First 2 seasons of ATHF (I just don't "get" the recent material)
Futurama
First 3 seasons of Family Guy (it's first run on Fox)
Home Movies
Morel Orel
FX has a new series on called Archer, which has been surprisingly funny through the first handful of episodes. I never watched Venture Brothers, but hearing the reviews about it on this thread, I might have to check it out.
For me South Park has been the best animated show ever. It's going on it's 15th season, and the show hasn't hit a decline phase yet. There have been peaks and valleys from episode to episode, but it hasn't crossed into the obvious Simpson-zone yet.
EDIT: some how I forgot Futurama
I was pretty ambivalent about Futurama when it was originally on the air, but I watched all the episodes over the course of a month a summer or two ago and it was great. I made the mistake about telling my wife about the episode with Fry's dog and she refuses to watch the show now. Easily the saddest episode in animated TV history.
In my list above, I would put Futurama between ATHF and Family Guy
Futurama* may have topped The Simpsons at peak - it was a heck of a show. The revived version is not so great, mind you. EDIT: Echo the love for the episode about Fry's dog - though a bit of a tonal shock, it was really compelling. My wife can't watch that episode.
Just cause I hadn't seen it mentioned yet, Sealab was another very funny adult swim bit.
I might check out Archer - I'm powerless against H. Jon Benjamin's charms...
I respectfully and enthusiastically disagree with this.
I haven't enjoyed a Simpsons episode in 10+ years, but the early peak (when adjust for context) is amazing.
There have been some real clunkers, but they've had some gems in recent years as well. The episode where Homer becomes an ice cream man stands out in particular as one of my favorites.
Confirming this. I've seen that episode at least 6 times and still tear up every time at the end. The episode where Leela uncovers the truth about her parentage is another tearjerker, although not really sad... the Pizzicato Five song with the young Leela montage is incredibly moving.
I think Futurama at its peak was easily the match of the Simpsons... there's just a lot less of it. The Don Mattingly or Eric Davis of animated shows.
Really fun show, just couldn't recover after Harry Goz died.
And if we're talking about great animated shows, Samurai Champloo and Cowboy Bebop have to be mentioned, even if they aren't American. They've had an obvious influence on at least a couple of the shows (Boondocks, Venture Bros.) that have been listed above. I'd actually pick Champloo as the greatest cartoon show ever, if I had to pick. And I own all the Venture Bros. DVDs and five seasons of the Simpsons.
I made the mistake about telling my wife about the episode with Fry's dog and she refuses to watch the show now. Easily the saddest episode in animated TV history.
I refuse to watch this episode ever again. I can't handle it.
Just cause I hadn't seen it mentioned yet, Sealab was another very funny adult swim bit.
You want the mustache on or off?...Too bad.
Agreed about the crappiness of the newer futurama run. The arc with the spammers was decent, but even the Nibblonians weren't enough to save the Bender's Game one
But I think it packs in a large amount of moderately clever comedy without being quite so vulnerable to the usual 'Simpsons' templates - Homer gets a new job, Homer and Marge's relationship hits a rocky patch, Bart/Lisa has a new classmate, or The Simpsons Visit X.
Maybe it's because I'm turned off by the inconsistency/decline phase, but it's only the really early episodes that does anything for me now.
The Simpsons's peak was Bondsian.
So what you're saying, then, is that it's actually not like SNL at all.
Seriously. Really, really funny. And not just because Doofenschmirtz reminds me of my mother-in-law (actually my _wife_ pointed this out)
I did not think it was possible to PURPOSEFULLY make every show EXACTLY the same plot and have it actually work.
EDITed to add: In Cub Scouts a few months ago my son's den made small catapults. Many kids decorated them with drawings of skulls, fire, etc. My son simply drew a "self destruct" button. He calls it the Catapultinator.
I completely disagree.
The first two seasons of Seinfeld were weak, and quite surprising that the show survived.
Seasons 3 to 7 (whenever Larry David left) were the ones that drew the audiences in, so they are considered legendary at this point (The Contest, for example).
The last two seasons were when the show had its absolute tightest writing, and in my opinion, funniest shows.
The writers took more chances and ended up hitting some hilarious moments.
If you look at the density of the comedy they packed into an episode in the final two years, it would blow you away.
Compared to the laziness of the current sitcoms (even ones I enjoy, like Big Bang Theory), it's astounding.
Example:
The episode called "The Strike" has the following plot lines:
Kramer announces the strike he's been on for 10 years is over, so he goes back to work at the bagel shop.
Elaine gives out her fake number to "denim guy", but realizes she needs the card back for her free sub.
George hates giving gifts for Xmas at work, so he comes up with a fake charity and gives people cards that say he made a donation in their name.
Jerry meets an attractive woman who turns out to be a "two-face" (pretty in good light, ugly in bad light).
However, the underlying plot line that eventually merges all of the stories together in the end is the one that everyone remembers: Festivus (which is the filler points throughout the episode).
Every single scene in that episode is important (and funny). It all leads to the grand finale at the Costanza household, which in and of itself, is considered a comedic classic (airing of grievances, for example).
That was the Seinfeld episode with Terri Hatcher.
What, you've never seen The A-Team?
So it would be better to accidentally have the exact same plot every episode?
By the end of that show, the cast was in open revolt over the poor quality of the writing.
That said, at the time it went off the air, it was still one of the most successful shows on television.
Yes. I'd put it behind South Park and (reluctantly) the Simpsons, but not much else.
I agree wholeheartedly with 338. I think I remember the guy who played Peterman saying that when Seinfeld was cancelled
WTF? Does he think Seinfeld was cancelled? Even I know Jerry decided to end the show, and I never even had a guest spot, much less a recurring role.
As a literature dork steeped in the canon during my studies, I'd like to promote this concept as pretty damned insightful and relevant.
A lot of the Simpsons episodes haven't really hold up as well as I thought. I can barely watch any of it when it's on re-runs.
If you can't still laugh at Homer's reaction when Moe tosses his favorite song out of the jukebox as punishment and then the callback at the public radio station later on, that is just a damned shame.
The first two seasons of Seinfeld were weak, and quite surprising that the show survived.
Seasons 3 to 7 (whenever Larry David left) were the ones that drew the audiences in, so they are considered legendary at this point (The Contest, for example).
The last two seasons were when the show had its absolute tightest writing, and in my opinion, funniest shows.
The writers took more chances and ended up hitting some hilarious moments.
If you look at the density of the comedy they packed into an episode in the final two years, it would blow you away.
Compared to the laziness of the current sitcoms (even ones I enjoy, like Big Bang Theory), it's astounding.
Example:
The episode called "The Strike" has the following plot lines:
Kramer announces the strike he's been on for 10 years is over, so he goes back to work at the bagel shop.
Elaine gives out her fake number to "denim guy", but realizes she needs the card back for her free sub.
George hates giving gifts for Xmas at work, so he comes up with a fake charity and gives people cards that say he made a donation in their name.
Jerry meets an attractive woman who turns out to be a "two-face" (pretty in good light, ugly in bad light).
However, the underlying plot line that eventually merges all of the stories together in the end is the one that everyone remembers: Festivus (which is the filler points throughout the episode).
Every single scene in that episode is important (and funny). It all leads to the grand finale at the Costanza household, which in and of itself, is considered a comedic classic (airing of grievances, for example).
Looking back at the episode list, the final season was better than I remembered. Most of the episodes were pretty good.
However, packing so much into every episode was exactly the problem. The "show about nothing" turned into "the show into which we cram as many wacky hijinks as we can. Kramer goes back to work at a bagel shop after a ten year strike? Really? I guess it wasn't any more self conciously "wacky" as storing his own blood or preparing food all day in his shower or shaving himself with butter and falling asleep on a rooftop (which sounds more like an According to Jim or King of Queens plotline).
Maybe I'm sugarcoating the middle seasons, but I don't remember the plots being so dumb.
By the way, this guy makes an excellent, excellent Family Feud host. It's really the role he was made to play.
Probably more that that actor's entire persona seems to have been tied up in being J. Peterman. I would have been pissed too if that gravy train ended - it seems like that's all he still has! I think it's funny that he's carved out a D-list celebrity niche (occasional host/emcee) for a bit part on Seinfeld.
Agreed.
We are living in television's Golden Age and I don't know how to handle it. It is an embarrassment of riches.
Excuse me, that's the full-time host of beloved game show Family Feud you're talking about there.
Maybe it's just a personal type-casting thing then. Every time I see him on TV I feel like he's still playing J. Peterman.
I'm a big fan of season 9. Festivus, the backwards episode, the T-Bone episode. Lots of good stuff in there.
Also had the lead in a touring production of "Monty Python's Spamalot."
He's also the TV host of The National Dog Show. It airs on Thanksgiving Day on NBC immediately following the Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade, if you want to set your DVR now.
The same events occur in each episode in exactly the same order. About 1/5th of the dialog is the same. The only thing that changes is the details.
It's so similar that when they deviate from it, it's only to point out that they are deviating from it.
Oh, and they run it twice in 30 minutes.
So your mother-in-law responds to every petty grievance with complicated plans to wreak some kind of minor havoc on the entire TRI-STATE AREA? Cool.
And yes, each Phineas and Ferb episode is pretty much identical. And it's still damn entertaining.
He's not just an actor portraying the part, he bought the company!
After playing the part, when the series went off the air, the real J.Peterman offered him the opportunity to purchase a portion of the (struggling) company. The company turned a profit the first year he was a co-owner.
Actually, the award for "Most Formulaic Plots" would go to "Three's Company".
Someone says something on the one side of a closed door, and someone else on the other side hears only part of it, and then misinterprets it for comedic results.
Add in the occasional "Jack is gay" jokes from Mr. Roper/Mr. Furley, and that's pretty much 90% of the plot lines for that show.
No. According to most interviews/comments he's made, the show ended because he felt like it was just about time to go out on top.
The grind of writing, producing and acting in the series was wearing him out.
The money issue had to do with the release of the DVDs.
Him and Larry David had the rights to the DVDs (and syndication), and the other three cast members were going to refuse to do any commentary or featurettes for the DVDs unless they were given a big share of the profits. Seinfeld and David eventually relented and gave them a good percentage of the royalties from the DVDs.
Seriously. Really, really funny. And not just because Doofenschmirtz reminds me of my mother-in-law (actually my _wife_ pointed this out)
Is this a real show? After reading the last 50 posts, I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of those shows were made up.
However, packing so much into every episode was exactly the problem. The "show about nothing" turned into "the show into which we cram as many wacky hijinks as we can.
This. The whole "Kramer shaves himself with butter, Newman tries to eat him, and the audience at a comedy show thinks this is part of Bania's act" plotline was where the show jumped the shark for me.
While the pacing of the early seasons was much slower than the middle and late ones, I feel like the early seasons actually dealt with situations that happen in real life, and I could relate to them. I don't understand how anyone wouldn't like "The Stake Out" episode, for example.
Contrast that with the "Merv Griffin Show" episode, where George thinks that wild animals are committing suicide by not moving out of the way of his car, and he takes a squirrel in for surgery...and that's ignoring the ridiculousness of the whole Merv Griffin storyline itself. Yes, the episode was good for a few chuckles, but it's not one I really care to watch again.
They tried too hard to bring all the plot lines together at the end of each episode in the last season or two, so that in some episodes it felt forced or simply wasn't funny. They didn't feel compelled to do this in the earlier seasons, so when it worked, it worked marvelously ("The Marine Biologist", for example).
The character of Elaine also adds a lot in the earlier seasons, but by the last season, she was completely unsympathetic.
Uh? I'm guessing that's ST:V, right?
Those Coors Light commercials piss me off to no end.
Do you know who I am?
cartoon on the disney channel. not particularly funny, imo.
That is a bizarre clip. It's hard to tell whether Seinfeld is joking or not...he looks like he might be laughing, but it's one of the weirdest looking laughs I've ever seen.
Specifically the part where he has some petty grievance about something that happened long ago.
She's not so much on the revenge plans or -inators.
Oh, I meant Star Wars I and VI (reference to other thread). But Star Trek I and V works too.
I agree with this completely. It seems like they just ran out of ideas that were culled from real life and moved onto "what wacky things can we come up with this week?" And yes, I know that Festivus was from some writer's background, and so was from real life, but it's not the same. That's one person's experience that is not shared by anyone else. Whereas everyone's been hungry in a restaurant where it takes forever to get seated and people who came in after you get to sit down. Or been lost in a parking garage.
They tried too hard to bring all the plot lines together at the end of each episode in the last season or two, so that in some episodes it felt forced or simply wasn't funny. They didn't feel compelled to do this in the earlier seasons, so when it worked, it worked marvelously ("The Marine Biologist", for example).
I was actually going to post this example. When George pulls out the golf ball, I almost died laughing. But during the episode it didn't seem like they were trying to tie things together. It was awesome.
I must conclude that you have no sense of humor. :-)
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