Yankees only 3 back now. What a crock of ####.

Yankees only 3 back now. What a crock of ####.

The Yankees or the article?

Probably both.

It was interesting Tuesday to watch the American League dugout throughout a long night at the All-Star Game, and see how Pedroia constantly gravitated to Jeter

No, it wasn't.

Maybe Pedroia is his new girlfriend?

Maybe Pedroia was trying to find out how to score a few models and actresses for himself.

Maybe Pedroia was trying to find out how to score a few beards for himself.

I am so sick of so called fans assuming that short white guys have no ability, but they make it on hustle, intensity, detirmination and love of the game. The natural abilities needed to do what Pedrroia does are vision and eye-hand coordination-i am guessing he has an abundance of both. If people really believe this crap, why don't they occasionally write an article about the career minor leaguer who lacked the heart and detirmination to make it to the show.

Pedroia's hand-eye co-ordination is insane. He is fantastic at second as well. Joe Morgan (cough, cough) bought up a good point today saying he was a fairly decent junior tennis player - which explains a lot.

Pedroia doesn’t have Jeter’s natural ability and grace,

Blah, blah blah, blah blah blah blah. And yeah, guess which one of these two is black. (In the mildest of ways).

Joe Morgan (cough, cough) bought up a good point today saying he was a fairly decent junior tennis player

I saw that. It really was interesting. I wanted to give Morgan a cookie.

I don't think I'd agree that Jeter's public perception matches that of the stereotypical black athlete making it by on natural talent.

I am so sick of so called fans assuming that short white guys have no ability, but they make it on hustle, intensity, detirmination and love of the game. The natural abilities needed to do what Pedrroia does are vision and eye-hand coordination-i am guessing he has an abundance of both.

This is true and false. Yes, Pedroia does have impressive natural abilities in non-traditional areas, and those should not be equated with scrap and hustle and making oneself into a ballplayer.

But Pedroia is a pretty shockingly bad athlete on a number of traditional scales. He's slower than David Ortiz. He's got 5-10 HR power despite swinging from his heels every times - PEdroia's freakish eye-hand coordination allows him to succeed despite wildly below average power for a big leaguer.

PEdroia's freakish eye-hand coordination allows him to succeed despite wildly below average power for a big leaguer.


Hmmmm... as you used the term "big leaguer", I wonder, where does he lie on average in relation to all major-league batters? Or AL 2nd basemen?

Slower than Ortiz has got to be an exaggeration. He looks like he's got about average speed.

Jeter has the best qualities of both of his races. He combines natural athleticism with grit and hustle.

He's got 5-10 HR power despite swinging from his heels every times - PEdroia's freakish eye-hand coordination allows him to succeed despite wildly below average power for a big leaguer.

I think this sells Pedroia a little bit short (get it?) in the power department. I see him as more of a 10-15 HR guy, and I think Fenway is the reason he might not get to 15 HR year in and year out. Being a line drive pull hitter, the Monster hurts his HR total. For Pedroia, I'm willing to bet the Monster turns more line drive HRs into doubles than it turns deep, lazy flyballs into HRs. If his home park didn't have such unusual LF dimensions I think he'd comfortably reach double digits in HRs every year and, if he played in a hitter's park with favorable LF dimensions like Philly or Cincy, occasionally approach 20.

I think this sells Pedroia a little bit short (get it?) in the power department. I see him as more of a 10-15 HR guy, and I think Fenway is the reason he might not get to 15 HR year in and year out.

I agree, he's got 9 now so 15 looks like a good guess for 2008.

The point is that his raw power is not that of a 15 homer guy (think Gary Matthews Jr.) If he had merely good contact ability and had to really focus to make contact, his raw power would make him a 0-5 guy. But his contact ability is so freakish that he can sacrifice a little, swing from the heels, hit a few more homers while maintaining a very good average.

I can't argue about how he chooses to focus his abilities, he's hell of a player, but if he were to stop swinging from the heels and focus on BA, he could probably be Wade Boggs.

Note that I'm not one to praise Red Sox very easily either.

Jeter has the best qualities of both of his races.

He's the Obama of baseball!

(Maybe this is a recent development, since Obama doesn't seem to be able to go left lately.)

if [Pedroia] were to stop swinging from the heels and focus on BA, he could probably be Wade Boggs.

I would strongly suggest he do that, then.

Wouldn't he also have to more than double his walk rate to be Wade Boggs?

Must be the chicken.

Wouldn't he also have to more than double his walk rate to be Wade Boggs?

Not to mention his alcohol consumption on road trips.

Obligatory Wade Boggs beer story link. That story never fails to amaze me.

if he were to stop swinging from the heels and focus on BA, he could probably be Wade Boggs.

Yeah, I don't agree. If he didn't swing from the heels, I'm willing to bet his BA would drop.

In terms of alleged drunkeness, Wade Boggs was no Andre the Giant.

He's slower than David Ortiz.

Is he really slower than David Ortiz or is this hyperbole? He's slow, but I think he's still faster than Ortiz.

I am sort of sick of people insinuating Jeter is gay and using it in a negative manner. The conclusion being, of course, that being gay is somehow a negative mark against a person.

I am sort of sick of people insinuating Jeter is gay and using it in a negative manner. The conclusion being, of course, that being gay is somehow a negative mark against a person.

If Jeter's gay, he's terrible at it.

I don't think I'd agree that Jeter's public perception matches that of the stereotypical black athlete making it by on natural talent.

I don't think so either. But when a comparison to a short white guy comes up, it's still not surprising that he's the one who gets labeled with "natural ability and grace."

Jeter has the best qualities of both of his races

And so well-spoken, too!

#23...So much for getting my work done here....

I have tears in my eyes from reading the Andre the Giant anecdotes. Much like your screen name made me laugh uncontrollably, I found this quote just plain crying from laughter...

“Well,” rumbled the Giant, “It usually takes two liters of vodka just to make me feel warm inside.”

By the way, Judges 20:16 is the only passage of the bible which I know by heart.

Thanks,

CBW

This thread has arrived at a strange and wonderful place.

In terms of alleged drunkeness, Wade Boggs was no Andre the Giant.

I once took a piss next to Andre at O'Hare...he riiieeeked of pissly booze.

And, yes...he is a giant.

I once took a piss next to Andre at O'Hare...he riiieeeked of pissly booze.

But how wide were your respective stances?

I am so sick of so called fans assuming that short white guys have no ability, but they make it on hustle, intensity, detirmination and love of the game. The natural abilities needed to do what Pedrroia does are vision and eye-hand coordination-i am guessing he has an abundance of both.

Sure he does. But he also really does have an abundance of grit, intensity, determination, ect. Look at everything his college coach - Pat Murphy - has said about him. Murphy dealt with him on an everday basis and had a front-row view to watch a 5-8 freshman become an All-American gold glove shortstop. Murphy continually holds him up as the epitome to which all of his players should strive to be in terms of intangibles, work ethic and flat-out balls. I think if you are missing a huge chunk of how Pedroia became a starter on a WS champ if you ignore his intangibles. Pedroia really is as gritty as they come, by all accounts, and if you look at the confidence he has in himself - despite always dealing with detractors - that HAS to have an enormous impact when he is at the plate.


If people really believe this crap, why don't they occasionally write an article about the career minor leaguer who lacked the heart and detirmination to make it to the show.

Because there really isn't much point in going out of your way to rip some 28-yo ex-prospect for his lack of confidence or something. Why would you do that?

There are plenty of cases where "intangibles" have affected, or could be affecting, a player's development.
Look at Homer Bailey, a guy who freely acknowledges he plays baseball for the paycheck. Hes got a tremendous live arm but hasn't made some simple developments to his command and control. Without knowing anything behind the scenes I can't say if that is just because throwing strikes can be hard or if it is because he doesn't work very hard at improving his control but it is reasonable to think that it is at least possible that, since he doesn't really love what he does, he doesn't feel motivated to put in the work to take him over the top.
Miguel Olivo - a very physically talented player blessed with speed, power and a cannon arm - has openly struggled with some confidence issues. After one trade he was involved in he was, reportedly, crying in the locker room because he thought that he was traded because he was not wanted because he was not good enough.. instead of thinking, "I was traded bc I'm so good that this other team is willing to give up these players to get me to play for them." And a lack of confidence is killer at the plate. It is hard to enough to hit, but if you go up there doubting if you can do it you're toast. You've gotta go up to the plate thinking "I don't care about this dudes an all-star. He ain't #### to me. I'm gonna lay off that curve in the dirt and get a fastball and park it on his ass."

Two more examples..
It is pretty obvious that Zach Greinke's mental struggles had a pretty real effect on his pitching.

Also, Yankees prospect Jose Tabata showed some definate talent just a couple years ago but it appears maturity is part of what is hindering his development into becoming even a decent AA player.. much less a Yankee.

CALLIS:" Tabata is well ahead of the traditional development path as a 19-year-old in Double-A, but he has hurt his cause by continuing to have problems with minor injuries and immaturity. He has rebounded from a slow start, though his overall .248/.320/.310 numbers, including just three homers in 79 games, leave a lot to be desired. "
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/ask-ba/2008/266544.html

I once took a piss next to Andre at O'Hare...he riiieeeked of pissly booze.

Concourse, I presume?