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Wednesday, July 30, 2008

ESPN: Pearlman: Nice job, Pirates … you just helped the Yankees

It has been three days since the Pirates traded Xavier Nady and Damaso Marte to the New York Yankees, and I have yet to stop scratching my head (admittedly, it’s probably lice).

Please, someone, tell me what I’m missing here:

• Step 2: The two most covered Pirates players, outfielder/first baseman Nady and left-handed reliever Marte, are irresistible additions for myriad contending teams. Neither man has an outlandishly unmanageable contract (Nady is making $3.35 million this year and isn’t a free agent until after the 2009 season, Marte is making $2.15 million). Both are enjoying the best seasons of their careers.

Uhh...this might be Marte’s worst season of his career (including last night...of course).

Both are good character guys in their primes. Both would be thrilled to leave Pittsburgh to join a pennant race.

And Charlie, at Buc’s Dugout has his devastatin’ take.

Repoz Posted: July 30, 2008 at 08:29 AM | 33 comment(s)
  Related News: General, NY Yankees, Pittsburgh

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   1. Le Comble du Bob Dernier Cri Posted: July 30, 2008 at 09:05 AM (#2881835)
Well, truly, who knows what will happen. But you could just as easily spin the story as "Yankees squander intriguing package of talent on a fast-fading set-up man and a journeyman hacker playing way above his head this year."
   2. The Clarence Thomas of BTF (scott) Posted: July 30, 2008 at 09:11 AM (#2881844)
I'd actually go with #1. If the Yankees had landed Bay, I might agree more with the premise of the article, but Xavier Nady is a decent player but no star.
   3. Cowboy Popup Posted: July 30, 2008 at 09:14 AM (#2881847)
Yeah, Marte was real helpful last night.
   4. Non-Fat Listachio Ice Cream Posted: July 30, 2008 at 09:24 AM (#2881856)
Yeah, Marte was real helpful last night.


I came into this thread to make just this point.
   5. Jolly Old St. Nick (now, with Screen Name history) Posted: July 30, 2008 at 09:28 AM (#2881859)
You could have added Nady to that point. Finished off the key rally of the game by watching a third strike split the plate in half. He hasn't looked like much so far.
   6. 4seamer Posted: July 30, 2008 at 09:36 AM (#2881867)
I've never been a Pearlman fan myself so I understand whiney responses to his work. But after reading that dugout article I wonder if the Pirates are using PayPerPost to get bloggers to support them?
   7. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 30, 2008 at 09:50 AM (#2881886)
"But after reading that dugout article I wonder if the Pirates are using PayPerPost to get bloggers to support them?"

No, we just get tired of the national media spitting on us all the time. Especially when it's without good cause.
   8. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 30, 2008 at 09:51 AM (#2881888)
Also, I guarantee that as of a week ago, Pearlman wouldn't have recognized Damaso Marte if Marte had walked up and bit him on the ass. He only cares about him now because Marte is a Yankee, even though Marte is exactly the same player now that he was before the trade.
   9. Arnold Rothstein Posted: July 30, 2008 at 09:51 AM (#2881891)
If Nady posts his career numbers the rest of the way, the Yankees will no-tender him.
   10. Mushmouth Posted: July 30, 2008 at 10:40 AM (#2881950)
It's real simple - the Pirates traded Nady at the right time and got what they could get for him. If they waited for next season when he was at his usual .262/.308/.440, they get less.

They didn't get the value you'd expect from a .320/.360/.540 player because GMs of good teams are smart enough to know a fluke when they see one. That's why they're GMs of good teams.
   11. Sometimes it Rains (sj) Posted: July 30, 2008 at 10:46 AM (#2881963)
It's real simple - the Pirates traded Nady at the right time and got what they could get for him. If they waited for next season when he was at his usual .262/.308/.440, they get less.

Exactly, this isn't the Abreu deal. They Yanks gave up 4 players for a middle reliever and very average corner bat.
   12. Cowboy Popup Posted: July 30, 2008 at 10:48 AM (#2881969)
They Yanks gave up 4 players for a middle reliever and very average corner bat.

Sounds exactly like the Abreu deal.

Edit: Before someone starts throwing numbers at me, I was kidding.
   13. Bull Pain Posted: July 30, 2008 at 10:52 AM (#2881975)
Marte was pretty awful for the 2005 White Sox. Somehow his ERA didn't show it. El Duque's esacpe from the bases loaded no-out jam in Boston in the ALDS was started entirely by Marte.
   14. Tim Lincecum doesn't Wang Chung tonite (GGC) Posted: July 30, 2008 at 10:53 AM (#2881976)
For Cowboy Popup

I thought that Media Day was usually earlier in July.
   15. Cowboy Popup Posted: July 30, 2008 at 10:58 AM (#2881985)
I thought that Media Day was usually earlier in July.

Cool, thanks GGC. I can understand people being lukewarm on UCONN, yeah they were a young team, but they simply cannot throw the ball. I think they have Notre Dame QB transfer this year, I don't even know if he's starting though and they lost their best receiver to transfer. I think they got a little lucky last year, so they'll have a better team and a worse record, but I bet they still make a bowl (tough to tell though, there's not much difference between all the mid tier teams in the conference) and hopefully they can not embarrass themselves again come December.
   16. too fat and ugly to play third Posted: July 30, 2008 at 11:39 AM (#2882038)
Carlos Lee used to slap Marte on the back of his neck. I remember hearing that the White Sox came together as a team after Lee left and stopped slapping Marte. Which Yankee will be man enough to slap Marte's neck and then get traded for Scott Podsednik?
   17. Crispix Attacks Posted: July 30, 2008 at 11:50 AM (#2882048)
Which Yankee will be man enough to slap Marte's neck and then get traded for Scott Podsednik?

Finally, a role for Carl Pavano!
   18. Cooperstown Schtick Posted: July 30, 2008 at 11:59 AM (#2882061)
Which Yankee will be man enough to slap Marte's neck and then get traded for Scott Podsednik?

I saw Marte pitch last night. It is intolerably cruel, and probably pretty dangerous, to slap somebody in the neck when they have whiplash.
   19. Edmundo, more Jules than Jim Posted: July 30, 2008 at 12:01 PM (#2882063)
They Yanks gave up 4 players for a middle reliever and very average corner bat.

Sounds exactly like the Abreu deal.

Except the 4 traded for Abreu had 0 upside. :(
   20. s.zielinski Posted: July 30, 2008 at 12:45 PM (#2882127)
As a Pirates fan I didn't care much for the trade. But that does not mean I believe Coonington could have gotten more in return for Marte and Nady. What Pearlman avoided was analyzing the trade market. What were the opportunity costs for this trade? Another team's middling prospects? Did any team offer a player with Tabata's ceiling? Look at the return the Braves got for Teixeira. The Pirates are finding it difficult to move Bay and Wilson too. I find it difficult to conclude that the Pirates bungled the trade in a sellers market.
   21. Edmundo, more Jules than Jim Posted: July 30, 2008 at 12:50 PM (#2882134)
The Pirates are finding it difficult to move Bay and Wilson too.
Can Bay play RF? I have absolutely no mental image of him in the field. If so, you'd think the Phils would at least be having a little chat with the Pirates. He'd slot in nicely between Utley and Howard, or behind Howard if you want Burrell in between.
   22. Jimmy P Posted: July 30, 2008 at 01:30 PM (#2882193)
Can Bay play RF? I have absolutely no mental image of him in the field. If so, you'd think the Phils would at least be having a little chat with the Pirates. He'd slot in nicely between Utley and Howard, or behind Howard if you want Burrell in between.

Easily. He played CF some in 2005.
   23. Crispix Attacks Posted: July 30, 2008 at 01:32 PM (#2882197)
Except the 4 traded for Abreu had 0 upside. :(

Technically it was 3 players with 0 upside, and one player with some upside who refused to play for any team other than the Yankees and was immediately waived by the Phillies and re-signed by the Yankees.
   24. Mike Emeigh Posted: July 30, 2008 at 01:45 PM (#2882211)
Easily. He played CF some in 2005.


That doesn't mean he can play RF - which he really can't, because he doesn't have the arm for it.

-- MWE
   25. Dan Posted: July 30, 2008 at 01:45 PM (#2882213)
Can Bay play RF? I have absolutely no mental image of him in the field. If so, you'd think the Phils would at least be having a little chat with the Pirates. He'd slot in nicely between Utley and Howard, or behind Howard if you want Burrell in between.

Easily. He played CF some in 2005.

Bay was a very good defensive LF through 2006. But his stats from last year were terrible, and this year he's not doing much better.
   26. Tike Redman's Shattered Dreams (shayborg) Posted: July 30, 2008 at 01:48 PM (#2882217)
Can Bay play RF? I have absolutely no mental image of him in the field. If so, you'd think the Phils would at least be having a little chat with the Pirates. He'd slot in nicely between Utley and Howard, or behind Howard if you want Burrell in between.

He has the range for it, but after a shoulder surgery or two he no longer has the arm to play RF.
   27. Tike Redman's Shattered Dreams (shayborg) Posted: July 30, 2008 at 01:50 PM (#2882225)
Bay was a very good defensive LF through 2006. But his stats from last year were terrible, and this year he's not doing much better.

I think there might be a park effect involved there. Left field in PNC is enormous. Bay played through a knee injury last year that definitely affected him in the field (and, it would appear, at the plate), but he's looked about average this season.
   28. Dan Posted: July 30, 2008 at 01:55 PM (#2882235)
Well, Bay's +/- numbers are:

2006 +12
2007 -19
2008 -1 (so far)
   29. TE Posted: July 30, 2008 at 02:01 PM (#2882244)
Technically it was 3 players with 0 upside, and one player with some upside who refused to play for any team other than the Yankees and was immediately waived by the Phillies and re-signed by the Yankees.

Not quite; Henry played in the Phillies' system for a year and a half. He hit .253/.313/.407 in 25 games in 2006, then in 2007 moved from SS to the outfield and hit .184/.238/.322. He asked for his release, was for some reason granted it, and asked the Yankees if they'd take him back.
   30. Dan Posted: July 30, 2008 at 02:05 PM (#2882249)
I thought he "retired" for a few weeks to get out of the Phillies organization?
   31. MM1f Posted: July 30, 2008 at 02:14 PM (#2882253)
29,
I think he told the Phils he wanted to go play college basketball. His brother is a 5-star HSer, rising sr. I think, and CJ was recruited by several Big 12 teams as a guard. I think the idea was he'd go to whatever school his brother committed to, not cost the team a scholly (since the Yanks owe him tuition $) and they'd play together.
I guess maybe he changed his mind
   32. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 30, 2008 at 03:21 PM (#2882319)
"Can Bay play RF? I have absolutely no mental image of him in the field."

As others have said, he has the legs, but not the arm. He basically needs to run the ball in to the shortstop on relay plays.
   33. TE Posted: July 30, 2008 at 05:22 PM (#2882630)
I thought he "retired" for a few weeks to get out of the Phillies organization?

No, he asked for his release. If he retired, the Phillies would still have controlled his contract.
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