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Thursday, February 26, 2009

ESPN: Schoenfield: Who makes the the Mount Rushmores of the AL teams?

It’s just…staggering. 

Boston Red Sox
Ted Williams, Carl Yastrzemski, Pedro Martinez, David Ortiz

Rationale: A long roll call of options, including Cy Young, Tris Speaker, Wade Boggs, Nomar Garciaparra (before the fans turned on him) and ... some guy named Clemens. Sorry, Roger, but you’re still persona non grata in Beantown.

I didn’t think it was possible to read something dumber and more nonsensical than Reilly’s “Let’s arbitrarily reward the MVPs” article within the next month, much less within two days and on the same site.

Jeff K. Posted: February 26, 2009 at 08:30 PM | 745 comment(s) | Login to Bookmark
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   201. Home Run Teal & Black Black Black Gone! Posted: February 27, 2009 at 05:55 PM (#3088127)
For TNG, I go with:

1. Inner Light
2. A whole mess of Q-pisodes
   202. Greg (U)K Posted: February 27, 2009 at 05:55 PM (#3088129)
poor Geordi.


I think you nailed why I like him...I tend to be drawn to losers. Luckily for me I'm a Jays fan!

Not only that, Picard uses this episode to get some tail at a later date


This is the one thing I've picked up from watching them all in order that you miss in syndication. They do a good job of stringing along subtle storylines. Like they actually introduce the emerging Borg threat at the end of Season one, but don't reveal who the Borg are until season two...then they finally arrive at the end of season three.
   203. Lassus: Posted: February 27, 2009 at 05:57 PM (#3088134)
Where does Frank Herbert stand?
I still read Dune every couple years, and though the later books in that series got a little....weird, the first one still seems like an excellent book to me. Is it considered a significant science fiction book?


I had him before Dick, but then replaced him. DUNE is about as pantheon as you can get, but the books after that engender nerd debate that makes this Watchmen movie thing look like a tea party. I loved the first one, and unlike everyone else who gets all up in arms about 4, 5, and 6, I found Dune Messiah and Children of Dune to be incredibly tiresome. It may be subjective as I'm not really a "spiritual" type and Herbert was lauded for his creation of the religion there.

Also, Herbert's other output has been sadly tossed aside with how incredible and popular DUNE was. The Destination: Void series and Dosadi Incident among them are quite good.

While much of what Herbert's son did with the Dune universe has been rightfully reviled, I actually found the 10,000-years-before prequel books to be pretty fun in a space-opera origin barn-burner kind of way. Those worked, if little else Herbert and Anderson did.

Heinlein is clearly the best of the ones you mentioned.

Actually, I didn't mention Heinlein, someone else did. I thought he was kind of a hack, in an Ayn Rand "I GET THE POINT" way. That being said, I read two books and 2 or 3 short stories, all of which I hated, so I'll grant sample size.
   204. Greg (U)K Posted: February 27, 2009 at 06:00 PM (#3088137)
I went on a bit of a Frank Herbert kick in high school. I remember when I heard the plot of Children of Men, and that it was based on a book, I assumed it was this one of Herbert's.
   205. tl; dr (Voxter) Posted: February 27, 2009 at 06:02 PM (#3088139)
I find it ironic that people around here talk about how PK Dick "could actually write" and all that, because I gave up on him after two novels because he's such a poor stylist. I enjoy science fiction, and I've read a lot of it, but until recently most of its practitioners couldn't be bothered to put together a sentence worth a damn, Dick included. I bogged down in William Gibson and Isaac Azimov for the same reason -- the ideas were there, but it wasn't writing in the sense that anything moved beneath the surface of the words. I get bored with that sort of thing.
   206. Lassus: Posted: February 27, 2009 at 06:11 PM (#3088148)
I really hear you on Dick, Voxter. In a way, I always considered I'm the least likely an audience for him as anyone, as I've never been chemically outside my own head in the way Dick was - or pretty much everyone in America has been, including alcohol - even one time. (I feel the same distance from the Beats.) As I said, I'm not even the biggest Dick fan, but some of the work is SO far ahead of everyone else ("Flow my Tears, the Policeman Said", say) in style AND ideas that he really deserves the accolades.


Two others who could have (should have?) made the Mount are Bradbury and Ellison.
   207. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: February 27, 2009 at 06:14 PM (#3088152)
What do you guys think of Greg Bear? I'm not really a sci-fi guy, but I stumbled on one of his books and found it a good, quick read. Is he worth exploring further?
   208. Home Run Teal & Black Black Black Gone! Posted: February 27, 2009 at 06:22 PM (#3088160)
Mount Rushmore of meats:

Beef, chicken, porn, and emu.
   209. Lassus: Posted: February 27, 2009 at 06:22 PM (#3088161)
Which did you read, Shooty? I read the series that started with EON and remember liking it. The two FORGE OF GOD books were fun. I've heard good things about Queen of Angels but haven't read it.

In my sci-fi experience Bear kind of falls into a middle place of authors who became popular for a certain 80's/90's style of writing but didn't make the next-level step to get them spoken about in a "Oooooh yeah, that guy" way. Whehter or not that's entirely fair, I'm not sure, as he did do deservedly well. Hall of Very Good, I guess.
   210. Paul D (AKA The Other Canadian) Posted: February 27, 2009 at 06:23 PM (#3088163)
If you're doing SF, there are 3 automatics. Clarke, Heinlein and Asimov. Doesn't matter what you think of their politics, writing, or anything else - they created modern SF, and it would be vastly different if they hadn't come along. 4th spot is the only challenge. Dick isn't a terrible choice, but he wasn't much of a writer, more of an ideas person. I'd nominate Bradbury, but that leaves you with 4 writers from the same era, which doesn't seem right.
   211. Home Run Teal & Black Black Black Gone! Posted: February 27, 2009 at 06:23 PM (#3088165)
Hmm. I meant "pork." I typed "porn."

I stand by the original.
   212. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: February 27, 2009 at 06:27 PM (#3088169)
Which did you read, Shooty?

Blood Music.
   213. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: February 27, 2009 at 06:32 PM (#3088176)
If you're doing SF, there are 3 automatics. Clarke, Heinlein and Asimov. Doesn't matter what you think of their politics, writing, or anything else - they created modern SF, and it would be vastly different if they hadn't come along. 4th spot is the only challenge.

I think you have to go back to either Wells or Verne.
   214. RJ not in TO Posted: February 27, 2009 at 06:36 PM (#3088181)
Robert E. Howard, Edgar Rice Burroughs, Michael Moorcock, and I guess J.R.R. Tolkien.

Tolkien has to be on it. Dump Howard or Burroughs and put on George R.R. Martin. He is one of the best writers I have ever read, period, let alone fantasy writers.


Also, where does H.P. Lovecraft fit? Fantasy or Sci-Fi? Or does he get a mountain of his own with Clark Ashton Smith?
   215. Santanaland Diaries Posted: February 27, 2009 at 06:37 PM (#3088182)
I'd throw out Zelazny as a possible inclusion as well, though it's better if you pretend he basically stopped writing in the early 80s.

And for sheer influence, though more as an editor, you might consider John Campbell. Actually, do really do the subject justice you probably just need to have a Golden Age and previous SF Rushmore, and another for everyone since then.
   216. Lassus: Posted: February 27, 2009 at 06:40 PM (#3088187)
A quick one, just off the top of my head, for a character Mount:

Hari Seldon
Paul Atriedes
James Tiberius Kirk
Ender Wiggin
   217. Lassus: Posted: February 27, 2009 at 06:44 PM (#3088192)
and another for everyone since then.

Hard to do judge present history, really. Hell, even Ellison and Bradbury are still living.
   218. Paul D (AKA The Other Canadian) Posted: February 27, 2009 at 06:47 PM (#3088197)
I love Vernor Vinge and Iain M Banks, but I don't know if they'll have enough staying power to knock anyone off the SF mountain.

For fantasy I think it's Tolkien for sure, then probably Howard, maybe Leiber? Zelazny's a good choice. I guess Gene Wolfe's SF not fantasy. The problem I have with Martin is that it's to early to include him. What if he dropped dead tomorrow? You have to wait until his epic is complete before you evaluate him.
   219. Der Komminsk-sar Posted: February 27, 2009 at 06:51 PM (#3088199)
Teal and Black: I can only hope you mean 'pork' - though there's a punchline there too.
   220. Morty Causa Posted: February 27, 2009 at 06:56 PM (#3088204)
President Eisenhower defended his refusal to denounce McCarthy publicly, claiming that to do so would only further polarize the nation and reward McCarthy with additional publicity. To his aides, Eisenhower vowed, "I will not get into the gutter with this guy." By the end of 1953, polls indicated that at least half of all Americans had a favorable impression of McCarthy and his tactics. Emboldened by such support, McCarthy set out to widen the scope of his investigations. This time, however, he would go too far.

When McCarthy, armed with little more than hearsay and innuendo, set out to expose communists within the U.S. Army, Eisenhower decided enough was enough. He instructed his staff to present information that would discredit McCarthy. It was revealed that McCarthy had petitioned the Army to award preferential treatment to his assistant, David Shine. Finding himself on the defensive, McCarthy demanded notes of meetings between Eisenhower administration personnel and Army officials. Eisenhower established a presidential precedent by invoking executive privilege in refusing to turn over the notes. Claiming that matters of national security might be breached if administration officials were forced to testify under oath, Eisenhower robbed McCarthy of the opportunity to perpetuate his inquisition. From that point on the Army-McCarthy hearings degenerated into a series of increasingly unfounded and paranoid accusations.

Eisenhower quietly exerted pressure on Republican senators to go forward with a censure of McCarthy. In December 1954, the Wisconsin senator was condemned for conduct unbecoming a Senator. Eisenhower had been successful in undermining McCarthy by employing "hidden-hand" tactics, but critics contended that more decisive action could have prevented many innocent people from being forever tainted by groundless charges.


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/presidents/34_eisenhower/eisenhower_politics.html

And:

http://www.justicelearning.org/justice_timeline/ArticlesTimeline.aspx?id=3&Section=13&TimelineID=74&TimelineEventID=1894

And:

http://www.google.com/search?q=Eisenhower+McCarthyism+executive+privilege&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GWYA
   221. Morty Causa Posted: February 27, 2009 at 06:57 PM (#3088205)
Although President Truman issued Executive Order 9981 (1948) to desegregate the military services, his administration had limited success in realizing it. As a life-long soldier, Dwight Eisenhower knew intimately the reality of racial intolerance in the military. As president, he commanded compliance from subordinates and was able to overcome the deeply rooted racial institutions in the military establishment. By October 30, 1954, the last racially segregated unit in the armed forces had been abolished, and all federally controlled schools for military dependent children had been desegregated.


I note that the defenders of Truman do not address my points that Truman was unfit temperamentally t be president, and was incompetent to boot. That he and Acheson established the Viet Nam scheme of response to communist aggression in all its ignominy. I’ll give you the UN and the Marshall Plan, for what it’s worth—as if those two things wouldn’t have come about anyway. That, along with his feckless civil rights efforts, would redound to the credit of a professor at Harvard (assuming Truman had the brains to be a Harvard professor—well I guess I just negated my example), but good ideas are hardly even a start in politics. Eisenhower, on the other hand, his entire professional life, was the apotheosis of competence, of going about figuring out the best way to do something and then organizing how to do it. And there has been no politician in history who was less a ######## poseur and posturer. Truman was the consummate grandstander, all too often about things he was powerless to effect or alter. Truman blustered about McCarthy; Eisenhower bided his time. Truman gave his Flip Wilson Rev. LeRoy sermons on civil rights; Eisenhower actually desegregated the military and the District of Columbia. The difference, besides McCarthy, is also perfectly personified in the way he handled Faubus and the integration in Arkansas. No one at the time had the prestige to do what he did without greater blowback resulting. He gave Faubus every opportunity to save face and come to terms, thus showing the Feds in the best possible light to the objective and the moderate. When he saw it wouldn’t gunna happen, Faubus was intent on grandstanding like so man, he didn’t preen and posture. Faubus just woke one day to find the 101st airborne at the foot of his bed.
   222. Morty Causa Posted: February 27, 2009 at 07:00 PM (#3088209)
> By any reasonable standard, W. exited rather gracefully. Hence all the talk of the smoothness of the transition and the professionalism of W's staff. As far as I can tell, no one stole the O's from the White House keyboards.


What lofty standards you have, as long as they apply to pointless endeavors and empty gestures. Where was he the last six months of his term? Rarely, if ever, has a president faded into the woodwork so sheepishly. Bushco didn’t even keep track of the money they were throwing away at companies, had no idea how to approach a solution to the economic problem, and was simply looking to get out as fast as he could. Yeah, we can all agree he wanted the next administration in there as soon and smoothly as possible. Ain't nobody here but us chickens, boss. If he had been the pilot of that airliner that took to the river, his first and only priority would have been to be the first one out and into the lifeboat.
   223. Who wants Teixeira dessert? Posted: February 27, 2009 at 07:05 PM (#3088219)
On the white cliffs of Dover - Beatles, Who, Kinks, Rolling Stones
   224. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: February 27, 2009 at 07:09 PM (#3088224)
On the white cliffs of Dover - Beatles, Who, Kinks, Rolling Stones

Are we not allowing solo artists? Because Bowie belongs somewhere in here.
   225. Eric Bartman Posted: February 27, 2009 at 07:17 PM (#3088236)
Mt. Rushmore of National Parks.

Yellowstone, Grand Teton, Yosemite, Grand Canyon


Wyoming thanks you for your endorsement. #1 & #2 woo hoo!
   226. Who wants Teixeira dessert? Posted: February 27, 2009 at 07:22 PM (#3088242)
Bill Murray, Wes Anderson, Jason Schwartzman, the Creation song "Making Time"

Oh, it was about MOUNT Rushmore.
   227. Lassus: Posted: February 27, 2009 at 07:23 PM (#3088245)
The Badlands and Glacier National scoff at Yellowstone!
   228. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: February 27, 2009 at 07:24 PM (#3088246)
Mt. Rushmore of film directors -

Chaplin, Hitchcock, Kubrick, Spielberg

I'm actually not a big Spielberg fan, but I can't deny his enormous impact on the industry.
   229. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: February 27, 2009 at 07:29 PM (#3088251)
Chaplin, Hitchcock, Kubrick, Spielberg

I don't know. Billy Wilder has to be on a Rushmore of directors.
   230. RJ not in TO Posted: February 27, 2009 at 07:32 PM (#3088254)
<strike>Kubrick</strike> Spielberg out, Kurosawa in.
   231. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: February 27, 2009 at 07:32 PM (#3088255)
Kubrick out, Kurosawa in.

Wow. I love Kurosawa's films, but I believe that Kubrick has, quite simply, the finest collection of films ever made.

But if anyone can challenge him, it's Kurosawa.
   232. Swedish Chef Posted: February 27, 2009 at 07:36 PM (#3088257)
I suppose I should say something in favor of Bergman now.

But no, #### that miserable twit.
   233. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: February 27, 2009 at 07:37 PM (#3088259)
Other contenders for directors...John Ford, Elia Kazan, some of the French New Wave guys, Orson Welles, Fritz Lang.
   234. Lassus: Posted: February 27, 2009 at 07:40 PM (#3088263)
I'm not as versed in directors, is Huston not quite deserving?
   235. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot Posted: February 27, 2009 at 07:41 PM (#3088265)
Mt. Rushmore of film directors -

Chaplin, Hitchcock, Kubrick, Spielberg


Kurosawa, Rohmer, Hitchcock, Scorsese

Mt. Rushmore of actors (male)-

Bogart, Grant, DeNiro, Mitchum

Mt. Rushmore of actresses -

Stanwyck, Loy, Bette Davis, Judy Davis

Hey, any subjectivity here? Perish the thought.
   236. Bob Dernier Cri Posted: February 27, 2009 at 07:42 PM (#3088266)
Mount Rushmore of colossal mountainside sculptures:

Abu Simbel
Mount Rushmore
Stone Mountain
Crazy Horse Memorial
   237. oscar madisox Posted: February 27, 2009 at 07:42 PM (#3088267)
On the white cliffs of Dover - Beatles, Pink Floyd, Kinks, Led Zep
   238. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: February 27, 2009 at 07:45 PM (#3088273)
I'm not as versed in directors, is Huston not quite deserving?

My list is not exhaustive.
   239. Greg (U)K Posted: February 27, 2009 at 07:50 PM (#3088278)
Canadian Rock Rushmore:

The Tragically Hip, The Band, The Guess Who, Sloan

very subjective...Rush should probably be on there, but I don't like them very much, don't really like the Guess Who either. And I like Joel Plaskett more than any of the others...but there are limits!
   240. Lassus: Posted: February 27, 2009 at 07:55 PM (#3088284)
Beatles, Pink Floyd, Kinks, Led Zep

I like this group better than the last one.

I understand subjective lists, but doesn't that subvert the purpose? I had to include Dick in mine even if I liked Herbert better. Leaving off Rush for the Tragically Hip for Canada seems kind of sad.
   241. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: February 27, 2009 at 07:57 PM (#3088288)
Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln an TR were extremely pivotal figures in American history. That Roosevelt is the weakest of the four doesn't mean he wasn't a consequential statesman.
   242. Francoeur Sans Gages (AlouGoodbye) Posted: February 27, 2009 at 07:58 PM (#3088289)
On the white cliffs of Dover - Beatles, Who, Kinks, Rolling Stones
Beatles, Stones, Smiths, Led Zepellin.

Solo:

Clapton, Bowie, Elton John, Cat Stevens.
   243. Who wants Teixeira dessert? Posted: February 27, 2009 at 08:14 PM (#3088307)
I'm just glad no one had to cross out Loverboy on that Canadian list.
   244. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn) Posted: February 27, 2009 at 08:20 PM (#3088312)
Mount Rushmore of character actors:

Joseph Cotten, Steven Hill, M. Emmet Walsh, Tom Wilkinson
   245. Random Transaction Generator Posted: February 27, 2009 at 08:25 PM (#3088319)
Back to the important stuff:

Television, Supporting Role actors, comedy, male:

Phil Hartman (as Hutz/McClure/McNeal), Jason Alexander (as Costanza), Art Carney (as Norton), Harvey Korman (any role)
   246. Who wants Teixeira dessert? Posted: February 27, 2009 at 08:25 PM (#3088320)
I will resist some sort of racially charged pun about the hills in which we are sculpting. Let another debate begin:

Oscar Charleston, Satchel Paige, Josh Gibson, Buck Leonard
   247. Tuque Posted: February 27, 2009 at 08:26 PM (#3088322)
Mt. Rushmore of '90s Nickelodeon cartoons:

Rocko, Doug, The Brain, Arnold
   248. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: February 27, 2009 at 08:28 PM (#3088326)
Oscar Charleston, Satchel Paige, Josh Gibson, Buck Leonard

I'd substitute Rube Foster for Buck, but the other 3 can't be argued with.
   249. Who wants Teixeira dessert? Posted: February 27, 2009 at 08:28 PM (#3088327)
What about Ren and Stimpy?
   250. Who wants Teixeira dessert? Posted: February 27, 2009 at 08:29 PM (#3088329)
How about just for strictly playing career in the Negro Leagues?
   251. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: February 27, 2009 at 08:31 PM (#3088330)
How about just for strictly playing career in the Negro Leagues?

See 254. The only one you could think about bumping is Buck Leonard.
   252. Tuque Posted: February 27, 2009 at 08:31 PM (#3088331)
What about Ren and Stimpy?

One of them should probably be on there, because I've heard it was a great show, but since I didn't watch 'em, I didn't put 'em. That show always creeped me out. Something about the animation made me feel dirty.
   253. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: February 27, 2009 at 08:31 PM (#3088333)
As much as everyone hates Troi, even SHE was a better-written and more fleshed-out character than poor Geordi.


I just spoke to Geordi and he said he's going to run a full-scale diagnostic as to why this is so.
   254. robinred Posted: February 27, 2009 at 08:31 PM (#3088334)
I'd substitute Rube Foster for Buck, but the other 3 can't be argued with.


I think Cool Papa Bell or Buck O'Neil might have to be considered as ambassadors for the 4th spot.
   255. Who wants Teixeira dessert? Posted: February 27, 2009 at 08:32 PM (#3088335)
Warner Brothers cartoons - Bugs Bunny, Porky Pig, Daffy Duck, and Wile E Coyote
   256. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: February 27, 2009 at 08:33 PM (#3088338)
I think Cool Papa Bell or Buck O'Neil might have to be considered as ambassadors for the 4th spot.

I don't kow, RR, for a while there Rube Foster WAS the NL. And he was a great player, too. In my mind, you start a Rushmore of the Negro Leagues with Rube.
   257. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: February 27, 2009 at 08:33 PM (#3088339)
Oscar Charleston, Satchel Paige, Josh Gibson, Buck Leonard

I'd substitute Rube Foster for Buck, but the other 3 can't be argued with.


With Rube, that sounds like the perfect four. Only Pop Lloyd has an argument to be included from the leftovers.
   258. zonk Posted: February 27, 2009 at 08:34 PM (#3088341)
Beatles, Pink Floyd, Kinks, Led Zep

I like this group better than the last one.


Man... I realize its been more than 30 years since the Stones made a great album - and even their OK albums since then are generally good only by normal band standards - but that peak from the late 60s through Exile (or Sticky Fingers, if you like) is just so phenomenal that I still thinks its criminal to leave them off the list.
   259. Home Run Teal & Black Black Black Gone! Posted: February 27, 2009 at 08:36 PM (#3088343)
Morty,

I think I already said: I get it. You don't like GW Bush. Blah blah blah.

Edit: I try not to engage with someone using the phrase, "Bushco." My apologies to the board for fanning this unbalanced flame once already.
   260. Who wants Teixeira dessert? Posted: February 27, 2009 at 08:36 PM (#3088345)
Sketch TV comedy - Monty Python, SCTV, Kids In The Hall, Original cast SNL
   261. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: February 27, 2009 at 08:37 PM (#3088347)
Warner Brothers cartoons - Bugs Bunny, Porky Pig, Daffy Duck, and Wile E Coyote


I'd probably replace Wile E with Foghorn Leghorn, the Road Runner or Tweety (though its arguable), but the other three are a given.
   262. PreservedFish Posted: February 27, 2009 at 08:38 PM (#3088349)
Mount Rushmore of meats:

Beef, chicken, porn, and emu.


Bacon. Ham. Pork chops.
   263. PreservedFish Posted: February 27, 2009 at 08:39 PM (#3088352)
BTW the real Mount Rushmore of meats:

Pork, Beef, Lamb, Duck
   264. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: February 27, 2009 at 08:39 PM (#3088353)
I'd probably replace Wile E with Foghorn Leghorn, the Road Runner or Tweety (though its arguable), but the other three are a given.

My personal 4:

Bugs, Marvin the Martian, Wile E., Yosemite Sam
   265. Lassus: Posted: February 27, 2009 at 08:42 PM (#3088358)
Bacon. Ham. Pork chops.

This is more the Mount Rushmore of pig.
   266. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: February 27, 2009 at 08:43 PM (#3088362)
This is more the Mount Rushmore of pig.

Sure, Lassus. This wonderful, magical animal the pig.
   267. Who wants Teixeira dessert? Posted: February 27, 2009 at 08:44 PM (#3088363)
Yes, Ren and Stimpy stepped over that uncomforable line many times, but some of the times were funny too.

If you making it a monster overall British Rock list, then the Stones beat Pink Floyd easily. The Kinks run from Face To Face through Muswell Hillbillies is like Pedro's peak.
   268. Home Run Teal & Black Black Black Gone! Posted: February 27, 2009 at 08:44 PM (#3088364)
So: Mount Rushmore of delicious animals:

Cow, Pig, Duck and, of course...


The most dangerous game.
   269. Who wants Teixeira dessert? Posted: February 27, 2009 at 08:45 PM (#3088366)
If it were personal favorites, I would have left out Porky and Wile for Foghorn and probably Yosemite.
   270. RJ not in TO Posted: February 27, 2009 at 08:48 PM (#3088370)
This is more the Mount Rushmore of pig.

Bacon, Bacon, Bacon, and more Bacon.
   271. Lassus: Posted: February 27, 2009 at 08:49 PM (#3088373)
Man... I realize its been more than 30 years since the Stones made a great album - and even their OK albums since then are generally good only by normal band standards - but that peak from the late 60s through Exile (or Sticky Fingers, if you like) is just so phenomenal that I still thinks its criminal to leave them off the list.

I will admit that Floyd over Stones kind of ruins my own "subjective" argument from before. Of those four, I can see certainly see leaving off Floyd for the Stones, even if I don't like them. Between the Beatles and the Kinks I personally find them a very very distant third. BUT, again, by my own theories, they probably shouldn't be left off.
   272. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: February 27, 2009 at 08:50 PM (#3088376)
Yes, when it comes to vast areas of uninhabited land, Wyoming is a great choice.

I've driven all over Wyoming, more than a few times, and I will say, few stretches, if any, of major U.S. highways, or interstates are more remote in the continental U.S. than the 100 miles between Casper and Shoshoni, WY. I imagine the moon being like that stretch of road.

I'm not talking about an off the beaten path, dirt road, this is a U.S. Highway.

Even with those types of stretches, the State can lay claim to two of the most beautiful areas in the entire world, IMO.
   273. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: February 27, 2009 at 08:51 PM (#3088377)
I'd take New Order over Pink Floyd anyway, you weirdos!
   274. Who wants Teixeira dessert? Posted: February 27, 2009 at 08:52 PM (#3088378)
no no no - It's Bacon, Ham, Pork, and Rinds
   275. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: February 27, 2009 at 08:52 PM (#3088379)
Rushmore of western philosophers -

Plato, Aristotle, Descartes, Hegel.

Rushmore of American authors -

Twain, Fitzgerald, Hemingway, Pynchon.
   276. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: February 27, 2009 at 08:54 PM (#3088380)
Pop institutions Mt. Rushmore - Bing Crosby, Frank Sinatra, Elvis Presley and the Beatles

No other singer or group had the impact those four had in popular musical history.
   277. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: February 27, 2009 at 08:56 PM (#3088382)
No other singer or group had the impact those four had in popular musical history.

Louis Armstrong? Duke Ellington? Al Jolson? Hank Williams? Hank Williams is as important to large swathes of the US as Frank Sinatra. Based on record sells of the last 20 years, we might have to put Run D.M.C. on this list!
   278. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: February 27, 2009 at 08:58 PM (#3088383)
Hank Williams is as important to large swathes of the US as Frank Sinatra.

I remember an old tidbit where "Stars & Stripes" polled a bunch of soldiers serving in World War II overseas who their favorite recording artist was. Sinatra and Williams were neck-and-neck.
   279. zonk Posted: February 27, 2009 at 08:59 PM (#3088384)
I'd take New Order over Pink Floyd anyway, you weirdos!


You just made my "Pot meet Kettle" Mt. Rushmore, Shooty...
   280. zonk Posted: February 27, 2009 at 09:00 PM (#3088385)
PC Strategy games

Civ2, Galactic Civilizations, Hearts of Iron 2, OOTP6.5 (if sports sims can slide in as a "strategy" title).
   281. Who wants Teixeira dessert? Posted: February 27, 2009 at 09:01 PM (#3088386)
Yep, Hank would be there among the four for American pop. Better than that hack Rudy Vallee.
   282. Lassus: Posted: February 27, 2009 at 09:02 PM (#3088389)
I'd take New Order over Pink Floyd anyway, you weirdos!

New Order's decline phase was a lot steeper, sadly. Loved them, too, however.


Twain, Fitzgerald, Hemingway, Pynchon.

I don't favor Hemingway, but wouldn't leave him off. I don't feel that Fitzgerald belongs, but am not entirely sure yet who to replace him with. I'm leaning towards Millay, but that's probably not right either.


Good call on Hank Williams and Duke Ellington.


we might have to put Run D.M.C. on this list!

I could have made a run at a Mount Rapmoore in 1995 probably, but not now, I'm too out of it. Anyone?
   283. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: February 27, 2009 at 09:02 PM (#3088391)
You just made my "Pot meet Kettle" Mt. Rushmore, Shooty...

Then I have accomlished something today. God knows I didn't do any work or finish the Fixed Income section of Security Analysis like I should have.

I stand by New Order over Pink Floyd, though. I'm digging in like Beano about college football on this one.
   284. Who wants Teixeira dessert? Posted: February 27, 2009 at 09:04 PM (#3088392)
Big band leaders might be Ellington, Basie, Goodman, Herman.
   285. Esoteric Posted: February 27, 2009 at 09:05 PM (#3088394)
Man... I realize its been more than 30 years since the Stones made a great album - and even their OK albums since then are generally good only by normal band standards - but that peak from the late 60s through Exile (or Sticky Fingers, if you like) is just so phenomenal that I still thinks its criminal to leave them off the list.
The original list was obviously compiled by a man on drugs, because it includes neither the Stones nor (criminally) The Who.

The British Rushmore CLEARLY can only include The Beatles, Stones, Who, and Kinks (though I'll accept arguments about the Kinks). It's about founding fathers, for chrissakes. Anyone attempting to substitute something else in (New Order?? I LOVE New Order, but really now...) is merely being cheeky and subjective.
   286. Who wants Teixeira dessert? Posted: February 27, 2009 at 09:05 PM (#3088395)
Dorsey more popular I suppose, but not as quality IMO.
   287. Who wants Teixeira dessert? Posted: February 27, 2009 at 09:06 PM (#3088396)
HA, Esoteric, that WAS my original list!
   288. Esoteric Posted: February 27, 2009 at 09:06 PM (#3088399)
Oh, and Shooty? Let's make something clear here: New Order never recorded a better song than "Leave Me Alone." If you don't agree with me I CAST THEE OUT OF ESOTERIC'S NEW ORDER FANCLUB!
   289. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: February 27, 2009 at 09:07 PM (#3088400)
I don't favor Hemingway, but wouldn't leave him off. I don't feel that Fitzgerald belongs, but am not entirely sure yet who to replace him with.

This is pretty much exactly my thinking. I actually don't like either Hemingway or Fitzgerald, but it's hard to deny their impact.

I'm trying to think of a replacement for Fitzgerald - Baldwin? DeLillo?
   290. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: February 27, 2009 at 09:10 PM (#3088404)
Oh, and Shooty? Let's make something clear here: New Order never recorded a better song than "Leave Me Alone." If you don't agree with me I CAST THEE OUT OF ESOTERIC'S NEW ORDER FANCLUB!

Then I acquiesce!
   291. Esoteric Posted: February 27, 2009 at 09:11 PM (#3088405)
Esoteric's Insufferable Musical Rushmores!

Arty Anglospheric Cult Artists: Scott Walker, Nick Drake, Nick Cave, Richard Thompson

Glammers: Bowie, Roxy Music, Bolan/T-Rex, Slade

Post-Punk Visionaries: Wire, Magazine, The Cure, R.E.M.

Americana Rock-Folksters: The Band, The Byrds, Neil Young, Buffalo Springfield

Pioneering Hardcore Motherf*ckers: Black Flag, Husker Du, Minor Threat, Bad Brains
   292. RJ not in TO Posted: February 27, 2009 at 09:11 PM (#3088406)
The British Rushmore CLEARLY can only include The Beatles, Stones, Who, and Kinks

The Who are terrible. Most horribly overrated band from the 60's. And if you are talking about British rock bands, there are none better than Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd.
   293. Who wants Teixeira dessert? Posted: February 27, 2009 at 09:12 PM (#3088408)
Exie authors - Dostoevsky, Camus, Kafka, Hesse
   294. RJ not in TO Posted: February 27, 2009 at 09:13 PM (#3088409)
I could have made a run at a Mount Rapmoore in 1995 probably, but not now, I'm too out of it. Anyone?

Run D.M.C., Public Enemy, N.W.A., and Biggie
   295. Harry Balsagne's transparent jealousy Posted: February 27, 2009 at 09:13 PM (#3088410)
American poets:

Whitman
Dickenson
Pound
Ginsberg
   296. Esoteric Posted: February 27, 2009 at 09:13 PM (#3088411)
Randy, you are high. Lay down the crack pipe, my friend.

I have everything ever released by Zep and Floyd (and a shitton of the unreleased stuff), and I respect them greatly. But Floyd alternated experimental intrigue with some of the most BORING music imaginable, and Zeppelin were too one-note to qualify. Even when they did genre experiments, they could never escape from Plant's screech (which works well enough on their particular hard-rock niche) and Page's sloppy guitar and perfectionist arrangements.
   297. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: February 27, 2009 at 09:13 PM (#3088412)
Most horribly overrated band from the 60's.

That honor probably goes to The Doors, although The Rolling Stones rank highly, as well.
   298. Lassus: Posted: February 27, 2009 at 09:15 PM (#3088413)
Big band leaders might be Ellington, Basie, Goodman, Herman.

I will not leave off Fletcher Henderson. Herman has to go.

Hmmm... This one is tough.

Ellington, Dorsey, Henderson, Calloway

Ugh. Leaving off Goodman seems awful, but I can't lose anyone else. I'll accept arguments for Goodman over Dorsey.
   299. oscar madisox Posted: February 27, 2009 at 09:15 PM (#3088414)
It's more personal taste than anything. To me it's: 1. Floyd, 2. Kinks, 3. Beatles, My dilemma was the Stones or Zep to fill out the foursome. I could have gone either way and certainly see your point about their 60s catalog.
   300. Who wants Teixeira dessert? Posted: February 27, 2009 at 09:15 PM (#3088416)
Any band that has Robert Plant making up the words cannot be fourth best anything. The best I can say for him is that he imitates cats better than Ann Wilson.
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