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Discuss.
I don't totally disagree with any of that. They are still so far beyond The Who it isn't even funny. The Who are trash, garbage, junk. They have like 4 good songs. That's it. The rest is worthless. I mean Tommy? Really? ####### terrible album.
Dickenson
Pound
Ginsberg
Aha! Here's where Millay belongs. Pound out for Millay.
I have qualms about placing Can on this list, because I think you could argue they're art-rock more than "classic" prog (and they could also lead a Kraut-Rock Rushmore themselves along with Neu and Kraftwerk), but they're a damn sight better than ELP or Gentle Giant. Hmmm...maybe I should put Soft Machine as the fourth group instead.
Faulkner. Bellow. Hawthorne. Steinbeck.
All of the recent Cormac McCarthy hoopla would probably push him to the front of contemporary authors considered for such an honor. And rightfully so I would say.
Plato and Aristotle are mandatory. Descartes is a good pick and probably the most recognizable of the Bacon/Spinoza/Descartes trifecta that kicked off the long road to the Enlightenment. Hegel's basic concepts get a lot of fame, but beyond that he's a combination of incomprehensible and meaningless. Hegel was largely Kant inspired, and Kant was impressive entirely in his own rights, so I'd put him above Hegel.
Nietzsche would still by my number four though.
Faulkner. Bellow. Hawthorne. Steinbeck.
Faulkner is possibly the worst author I have ever read. Go with Steinbeck.
John Coltrane
Sonny Rollins
Joe Henderson
Wayne Shorter
Eagle Eye Cherry, Semisonic, Chumbawumba, Harvey Danger
For a non-baby boomer, that's a reasonable list. (Yeah, that's just my own subjective list. Ah well. Thanks for helping me waste time today. And you are all wrong about EVERYTHING!)
I think he was one of the most brilliant and incisive minds of the last two hundred years, and I thought about him, but Hegel's generally considered more of a "founding father" than Nietzsche was.
I never got what people see in him, either. Same with Joyce - I've tried multiple times to read both authors, without success, and I long ago stopped believing that not engaging with a fiction writer was a shortcoming on my part.
Also, Hawthorne is awful. If you want a laugh, google up Twain's critique of Hawthorne.
Moby-Dick is a masterpiece, but is there anything else that's really good?
This may depart from the Mount Rushmore metaphor, but Hegel is a godfather of a previous era (and one that was largely a reaction to the Enlightenment, so less heavy lifting on his part); whereas Nietzsche (and Dostoevsky and Conrad and Kafka) are the godfathers of our current age.
It isn't Dan Wilson's fault no one knows what a good pop song is.
The Kinks, The Clash, New Order/Joy Division and the Smiths/Morrissey.
Is Shooty the only one who remembered The Clash? We all lose, then. They belong on the rock. (Despite, er, Shooty's other stuff. Heh.)
Pioneering Hardcore Motherf*ckers: Black Flag, Husker Du, Minor Threat, Bad Brains
-applause- (Or, maybe pogoing)
Two tacos: one suadero, one buche, with grilled scallions
Reheated South Indian fish and clam coconut curry
Selection of artisanal cheeses with white wine
Popcorn
I'd say one Moby-Dick beats a library of Pynchon's.
And that's not really a huge slam against Pynchon or anything.
Twain & Melville are, I feel, pretty much mandatory on the American novelist list. After that you have, say, four or so people crowding for the remaining two spots.
Dominique (The Singing Nun)
Ballad of the Green Berets (Ssgt Barry Sadler)
In the year 2525 (Exordium and Terminus)
Eve of Destruction (Barry McGuire)
All #1 hits by artists who never had another top 40 hit
He was only in one of the top 5 episodes ever. Homer and Apu.
Woods: 75, 85, 90, and a dollar. Thank you, and come again. Hey, wait a minute! Hey! Uh...could I just ask you a question? Did you...did you _believe_ that, the way I gave you the change? Did I sound like a _real_ Kwik-E-Mart, you know, kind of guy?
Jimbo: Actually, I thought it was a little labored.
Woods: Oh.
Jimbo: You've got to lose yourself in the moment, man!
Woods: Yeah, like, yeah, OK, great! OK, let's, let's just try that again, OK? Come on. Hey, come on -- hey! Get over here. OK, now you're you, I'm me.
Jimbo: I'm me?
Woods: Hey -- don't..._jerk_ me around, fella.
I just read Typee, which is the novel that made him famous. It's pretty light stuff. Sort of a combination of an exotic swashbuckling tale and some anthropological notes.
Petco, Great generals HOF, Edgar Martinez thread, ????
Popular was the key word. The others that you mentioned were not as popular as the four I listed on the pop charts. Don't get me wrong - Armstrong, Ellington, Jolson and Williams were monumental figures (I own CDs of all four, FWIW), but their impact was limited relative to the others in regard to actual record sales.
EDIT: I understand that the radio was musically segregated for years, so it's possible that Crosby and Sinatra would not have been as popular as they were during the '30s and '40s if there had been a level playing field.
I'm 99% certain that the reason people stay away from Moby-Dick these days is because they see the size of the book, know the era it was written in, and imagine that it will be a ponderous, peripatetically bloated "epic." Trust me, it's nothing like that. You read that book and you see the template for A Frolic Of One's Own, you hear eerie premonitory echoes of Underworld, you catch bits that Pynchon was paying tribute to in Gravity's Rainbow...it's such a wonderful ride.
The Death of Derek Jeter thread is an easy #1.
Pink Floys Tunes: Echoes, Wot's, uh the Deal, Sheep, Shine on you Crazy Diamond
S.T.W.I.L.F.: Jadzia Dax, Seven of Nine, T'Pol, K'Ehleyr
Babylon 5 Characters: Garibaldi, Londo, Marcus, Emperor Cartagia
Beers: Guiness, Duvel, Anchor Steam, Sierra Nevada Celebration
OK, that's enough geekyness.
Great thread. Laughed my ass off more than once, especially the part about porn being a meat.
Oh, and Simpons celeb cameos:
Joe Namath (Vapor Lock!!)
Jay Mohr doing Christopher Walken reading Goodnight Moon.
Leonardo
Donatello
Michelangelo
Raphael
I go for the easy ones.
OOOOK here we go, from the original proposal:
Twain, Fitzgerald, Hemingway, Pynchon
I'm replacing Fitzgerald with John Irving. Including Pynchon may be too subjective. I think Melville's output has to count for something, as it was pretty low. The thing about Hawthorne that's important is that he predates the entire list above and he wrote a LOT of short stories that were really amazing and rather influential. So, my new list for authors:
Hawthorne, Twain, Hemingway, Irving
Kind of hard to ignore Glenn Miller, since he was the king of his era in record sales.
Moby Dick. Huck Finn. (First two no-brainers ... even though I haven't read the first and don't love the second)
Catch-22. For Whom the Bell Tolls.
?
Also, Hawthorne is awful. If you want a laugh, google up Twain's critique of Hawthorne.
good to see others share these views. There's certainly a protected class of authors and artists, which many in those establishments gasp the horror! whenever the least bit of criticism is offered upon these annointed authors/artists.
I try to apply that theory to baseball players, but keep arguing with myself on who is the 'establishment'.
I dislike Joyce more than Hawthorne, but I'd consider either to be Whatsamatta U material.
We're not carving books into rocks, shall we stick to people? ;-)
I've never liked Joyce, but I admit I can't see the hate for Hawthorne.
I would break this into three: solo rappers, producers, and groups.
Groups: Public Enemy, N.W.A., Wu-Tang, Run-D.M.C.
Solo: KRS-One, Rakim, Biggie, Kool G Rap.
Producers: Dr. Dre, DJ Premier, Pete Rock, Prince Paul.
I'm very, very tempted to replace Run with the Beastie Boys.
Muskellunge, Walleye, Smallmouth Bass, Lake Trout
Preachy.
I liked 7 Gables OK, but Scarlett Letter, Blithesdale, and most of the short stories of his I've read drive me nuts.
There is no way you can leave Orson Welles off that list. He made plenty of great films other than Citizen Kane, but even with just that he belongs.
I'd go Griffith, Welles, Bergman, Scorsese.
The Scarlet Letter would have been better had it contained a plot.
Pistol Pete, Bill Walton, Kareem (Lew) and...?
Groups: Public Enemy, N.W.A., Wu-Tang, Run-D.M.C.
Solo: KRS-One, Rakim, Biggie, Kool G Rap.
Producers: Dr. Dre, DJ Premier, Pete Rock, Prince Paul.
Totally agree with this.
h, and going way back to the directors thing:
There is no way you can leave Orson Welles off that list. He made plenty of great films other than Citizen Kane, but even with just that he belongs.
I'd go Griffith, Welles, Bergman, Scorsese.
I don't see how you can have a list of great directors that doesn't include Kurosawa and Kubrick.
Oh jesus, you're right. Now what?
Ellington, Dorsey, Henderson, Calloway
Ummmm... I have a hard time leaving Calloway off as he was such a FIGURE of the era, a whole style under himself and made a huge early mark. But does that overshadow shortcomings and make him too stock a pick? Or is it Miller that's the stock pick? Bah!
At the moment, it seems Calloway's off for Miller.
Ellington, Dorsey, Henderson, Miller
Personally I think Kubrick, though he was a great director, is pretty heavily overrated. I like Kurosawa more but Bergman still kicks his ass, in my opinion.
The Scott Walker Mount Rushmore: The Amorous Humphrey Plugg, Big Louise, We Came Through, The Old Man's Back Again.
I pity the Primate who has not experienced the poetic world of Walker.
I always thought that Scorsese was somewhat overrated. I liked Raging Bull, and Goodfellas, but neither one of them was something that made me sit up and take notice.
...Larry Bird
The Duke and Miller are definites, but the other two are difficult for me to pick.
North, West, East, Northwest.
A lot of people would put south in that last spot, but I won't. Northwest is money.
Millay is sadly too subjective a choice here, pointed out to me by the fact that we went to the same college. I can't stand Dickenson, but I can't leave her out, there is an element of popular that is to be considered.
So:
Whitman, Dickenson, Cummings, Ginsberg
Choices had to be made! Man up, Murphy!
'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!!
Listen -- strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
Oh, it's the meek! Blessed are the meek! Oh, that's nice, isn't it? I'm glad they're getting something, 'cause they have a hell of a time.
I'm not oppressing you, Stan. You haven't got a womb! -- Where's the fetus going to gestate?! You going to keep it in a box?!
I pity the Primate who has not experienced the poetic world of Walker.
For a moment, I was like, wow, a Mount Rushmore of the achievements of Milwaukee County Executive Scott Walker. I guess those poems could be nicknames for the various Aldermen on the council that he has thoroughly annoyed, or those that have been indicted since he's been the Exec.
Ellington, Teddy Wilson, Billy Eckstine, Tommy Dorsey. An impossibly big list to shrink down to just four.
Male vocalists: Sinatra, Hartman, Eckstine, Bennett
Female vocalists: Billie, Sarah, Dinah, Eva Cassidy
American Novels, first go:
Huckleberry Finn, Sister Carrie, The Great Gatsby, Invisible Man
How about college basketball players?
Oscar, Alcindor, Walton, David Thompson. Could add quite a few more.
And the pros:
Russell, Magic, Bird and Jordan.
"On this, there can be NO DISAGREEMENT"
---Poppie
And quarterbacks:
Baugh, Staubach, Montana, Elway. But could easily be expanded to a dozen.
And now for something completely different
I say this with a genuine interest: Could you explain how, even if in a general, from 15,000 ft. up perspective?
The American Renaissance is considered to be: Whitman, Thoreau, Melville, Emerson, Hawthorne and, for good measure (despite coming a couple of decades later) Twain.
Cooper is considered huge for creating the Into the Wild -- An American Adventure Story form.
But yeah, American Novel Rushmore: Huckleberry Finn, Moby Dick, The Great Gatsby, Uncle Tom's Cabin.
Now, Mount Rushmore of MLB franchises: Yankees, Red Sox, Giants, Dodgers (Cubs? Cardinals? Rockies?)
Mount Rushmore of Weezer songs: Jonas, Buddy Holly, Good Life, Tired of Sex (Note: I like their later stuff, unlike many Weezer fans, but I don't think that changes the mountain face)
The Everett Thread!
That would be for the one-liners version:
And now for something completely different
It's just a flesh wound
It's wafer thin
Nobody expects the Spanish inquisition
I know; I've read that before. The Last of the Mohicans and Cooper are remembered/important because of the genre, not the literary quality of his work.
I stick by what I said as far as this exercise being about carving PEOPLE into a rack face and not objects or concepts, but I agree what you said about the new stuff's relation to the old stuff, too, as well as liking the later things.
I have to say that I actually consider "Pork and Beans" to be one of the best summer singles I have ever heard. I'm not sure if I'm affected by the video for that or not, but it's kind of a perfect song. And the bridge in "Everybody get Dangerous" is so awesome (even if the song isn't) that it gives me chills. Honestly, I think the Red album has such towering high points, it makes up for some equally weird low points. (It isn't one of their better albums, no, but I liked it.)
James Fenimore Cooper could not write to save his damn life. Ask Mark Twain, if you don't believe me.
I'd never read that and I have to say that is the harshest and most thorough beat-down I have ever seen in print. Thank god Cooper was dead, I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
by literary standards, Samuel Delany is the best SF writer.
by most any other standard (ohhh, say, plot), Samuel Delany may be the worst SF writer. :-)
On Herbert and Dune -- it's Dune Messiah that makes Dune great. Tragedy after triumph and it brings poignancy to the "sacrifice" that Paul talks about so much near the end of Dune -- not just in terms of what happens to him but in terms of the universe he created. It took a lot of "courage" for Herbert to do that to one of the great heroes in SF.
After Dune Messiah, you can ignore everything. But I agree a number of Herbert's other novels are worth reading. Alas, somewhere in one of my moves, I seem to have lost 1-2 boxes of books and those are all gone.
Now, as to Trapper John vs. Hawkeye ... really the key was Blake but he was a Colonel. Anyway, Hawkeye quickly became insufferable once those two characters left. Hawkeye on peak but his career value is awfully low. Trapper turns out to have been the Derek Jeter of that show. :-) Truth is I was having trouble thinking of captains but no way was I gonna put Hawkeye on the list.
Was MASH the first show to perfect the "side character development" thing? After those first few seasons, I'm not sure I can remember laughing at anything Hawkeye said or did ... and he was still twice as funny as BJ. Col Flagg, on the other hand, may be my favorite guest character in TV history.
I considered cummings (spell it right) for the Pound slot, but thought that may be too subjective as well. I was trying to list by impact/influence.
A US poet Rushmore of personal favs would probably be:
Whitman
Hart Crane
WC Williams
Ginsberg
I am with you 110% (because I'm mathematically challenged).
Pork & Beans might be the most fun song around. Get Dangerous is funky fresh (for geek arena pop rock). Greatest Man Who Ever Lived is just plain awesome.
Kirk, Picard, Steubing, Barney Miller...
Yankees, Dodgers, Cardinals for sure. For the fourth, it depends on whether we're talking on-field success or following, but I think it's either the Red Sox or A's.
I agree. How about a Rushmore of recurring guest characters?
Col Flagg, Q, Artie Ziff, Luigi Vercotti
This is the first time I've ever wanted to read Moby Dick. Never heard anyone say this.
You realize you just justified Ken Burns' Baseball.
- "The Old Man's Back Again": Best protest song of the late '60s? Makes The Beatles' "Revolution" look like kiddie-time.
- "We Came Through": This is where John Williams nicked the "Indiana Jones" theme from, BTW.
- Big Louise: No words can describe this. One of the most haunting, beautiful pieces of 20th century orchestral music written by a guy not named Mahler, except that it also has a gorgeous vocal on top of it.
- I can't find "Humphrey Plugg," so here's Scott Walker's interpretation of Ingmar Bergman's "The Seventh Seal". No, really - it's the whole plot of the movie boiled down into five minutes, and it's frankly far more memorable and entertaining than the film itself.
FROM WIKIPEDIA:
Well, I definately prefer Picard, Sisco, and Archer. Kirk probably beats out Janeway though.
You, sir, have poor taste in film.
I'd like to put in a good word for Captain Sulu in "The Undiscovered Country", rushing to get to Kirk and delivering one of the more badass Star Trek lines I ever heard:
Petco, Great generals HOF, Edgar Martinez thread, ????
The Jung Bong thread remains a favorite of mine.
I prefer a handful of Bergman films to SS (Fanny and Alexander, Scenes from a Marriage mainly), but I still think it's ridiculously great.
Ella Fitzgerald. I'd replace any of the four with her, but especially Eva Cassidy. We never had to listen to Ella singing "Fields of Gold."
Mount Rushmore of Weezer songs: Jonas, Buddy Holly, Good Life, Tired of Sex
If you're leaving off "Beverly Hills," I assume it's because that one belongs on the Rushmore of All Pop Songs.
oof. that's just ... wrong.
i won't make a list of top beers, becuase you can't. the best beer is always going to be the one that's fresh and local. that said, zero german beers? that's just a travesty. and i like west coast microbrews and all, but you can't pick 2 san francisco area beers. they've been on the scene for less than 40 years ... well, if you are nice enough to forgive anchor's previous, not-so-glamorous history (jack keefe, for one, said that the steam beer out on the west coast made him all "logey"). and duvel? really? it's gotta be chimay or westmalle ... or how about cantillon or rodenbach?
Well, yeah, if we are including one-off guest captains, then there's a lot better than Kirk. From TOS, Kang has to be #1.
Oh, Tom, geez, no. Really. -sad face-
Well, yeah, if we are including one-off guest captains, then there's a lot better than Kirk. From TOS, Kang has to be #1.
I count Sulu higher than a one-off. ;-)
link
You're just a no-class beat-down fool.
Like Star Wars ep 1-3, Star Trek Voyager never happened. I will brook no argument on this subject.
i won't make a list of top beers, becuase you can't. the best beer is always going to be the one that's fresh and local. that said, zero german beers? that's just a travesty. and i like west coast microbrews and all, but you can't pick 2 san francisco area beers. they've been on the scene for less than 40 years ... well, if you are nice enough to forgive anchor's previous, not-so-glamorous history (jack keefe, for one, said that the steam beer out on the west coast made him all "logey"). and duvel? really? it's gotta be chimay or westmalle ... or how about cantillon or rodenbach?
I was going to say, westmalle has to be on there.
It was bad at the time, but with distance and perspective... it only gets worse. The level to which they could screw up such a softball of a premise is almost impossible to fathom.
I mean, if it had ever happened.
Fools, the lot of you... Fools!
Mt Rushmore of people on this thread I now hate:
Lassus
Miserlou
Randy Jones
The next person that bashes Voyager
Hm...I'd go Say It Ain't So, El Scorcho, Only In Dreams, and The Good Life. They do obviously have to all come from the first two albums.
Does it have to be "classic" bands? Because Porcupine Tree is ####### amazing.
(If it makes you feel any better, zonk, I watched every last episode. Really. I'll allow for about 7 good episodes over the 7-year run. Shooting high.)
They do obviously have to all come from the first two albums.
Oh, Biff. You were on that side of the Great Green Album War, were you?
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