I hope he hits a HR and celebrates like this.

I don't think I've ever hated any player in any sport as much as I hated Theoren Fleury when he played in Calgary. I still hate him.

Holy crap, Theoren Fleury's still alive!?

Fleury was a little #####. So is karma.

Theo was really that David Eckstein of hockey. Talented, but small so he was framed as scrappy. As I remember it, booze pushed him out of the NHL, hopefully he has everything in order now.

Good on him that he didn't embarass himself out there.

Loved that clip, the inference on the defenseman was great. God, I don't miss that at all.

Theo was really that David Eckstein of hockey. Talented, but small so he was framed as scrappy.

Theo was the David Eckstein of hockey if David Eckstein was one of the top five SS in baseball for seven or eight years.

Is it possible that he had to deal with such a traumatic experience as a teenager that it affected him personally to a great degree?

Theo was the David Eckstein of hockey if David Eckstein was one of the top five SS in baseball for seven or eight years.

And if Eckstein was a total f***ing dick, but I don't think that's the case.

Theo was the David Eckstein of hockey if David Eckstein was one of the top five SS in baseball for seven or eight years.

I suppose I wasn't clear, I'm not talking true talent level. I'm talking perception.

I don't recall that TF was abused, I tried to google it and I got a bunch of stories about how scrappy he was.

My favorite Fleury moment was when he wouldn't participate in the handshake after the Sharks beat the Flames in double overtime of Game 7 in 1995.

I was in Yosemite on vacation when the Sharks beat the Wings as an 8 seed the year before, so that Ray Whitney goal goes down as the most unglued with joy I've ever been because of a sporting event.

I think Fleury had some unknown level of involvement with Graham James, the sexual abuser junior coach outed by Sheldon Kennedy. That may be what Tango is referring to.

It was extremely-well publicized in Canada. You can google the three names, read about 5 of the stories, and I think you can paint a picture as to what happened to Fleury.

I don't think I've ever hated any player in any sport as much as I hated Theoren Fleury when he played in Calgary. I still hate him.


Hell, I hated him when he was with the Blackhawks, and that was when I was a Blackhawks fan. What an #######.

I met Fleury in about 1991 at a provincial park here in SK (close to where both he and I grew up). He was with his girlfriend (?) and some of his family and a few of us just hung out with them for an afternoon at a waterslide park.

Seemed like a nice guy, but he was very unusual-looking, as well documented. Short, fairly powerfully built and bearing a constant expression of confusion on his face.

Found out that he and I were both born in the same hospital. Who knew?

I'm an Oilers guy and I don't think of Fleury as being a total dick. Why the hate Shredder? One of the most entertaining players of the 1990's, as far as I'm concerned. More than a point a game for his career, with a large part of it taking place in the dead puck era. The James thing goes like this. Supposedly, one of his victims went on to NHL stardom. Said victim has maintained his anonymity. There are two guys he coached who qualify as NHL stars: Fleury and Joe Sakic. One has had a series of public problems and the other is the stereotype of the boring Canadian hockey player. Fleury had a pretty tough upbringing too, if I recall correctly. Guy had Crohn's Disease too. He's a pretty interesting fellow.

He now runs his own concrete company, and seems to be doing very well for himself as far as sobriety is concerned. He meant a lot to us here in Calgary, so it's nice that he's able to enjoy some of that affection.

The Graham James connection has been pretty much assumed since the story broke. One of my most horrific memories, made even more horrific in light of the scandal was watching Graham James cohost the local sports show, Sports @ 11:30, while wearing nothing but a speedo. What a horrible man, both in deed an appearance.

Fleury has said that he will neither confirm, nor deny the story.

That horrible coach, when he coached a new team, made sure that Fleury and Sheldon Kennedy (the player who broke the news) were on his junior team. Kennedy admitted that on a trip, the coach would spend the evening with him, every other night (speculating that the 2nd player got the alternating night). Kennedy admitted that he was also assaulted in the same car in which Fleury was in the back seat (sleeping) by said coach. Reading story after story, all you get the sense is that Fleury and Kennedy (as teenagers) were in James' back pocket.

Fleury as an adult has gone through substance abuse programs, and retired early for such a gifted player. As a pro, he was involved in alot of physical play, despite his small stature, including that infamous circa 1987 World Championship game in which a brawl broke out in Europe, and they closed the lights in the arena to try to restore order, while the fans booed mercilessly.

He's got his demons. Having anything other than empathy for him doesn't seem very charitable. Having hatred for him seems misguided to say the least.

I was in Yosemite on vacation when the Sharks beat the Wings as an 8 seed the year before, so that Ray Whitney goal goes down as the most unglued with joy I've ever been because of a sporting event.

Thanks for the link. I'm a sucker for Game 7 overtime goals and I hadn't seen this one since the day it happened.

Two hockey coaches have done more harm to the sport than anything, ever in the history of hockey (I include the Betuzzi and Linsman shenanigans in that).

I'm glad that I can't recall either of their names (the other being the one who tried to have his own player killed).

Someone tried to have a player killed? Are you sure that you aren't thinking of David Frost, agent for Mike Danton?

(the other being the one who tried to have his own player killed).

David Frost is the agent - he's the one who Mike Danton tried to have killed out of fear.

I had no idea about the (probable) molestation of Fleury. That's really sad.

At least he doesn't have anterograde amnesia.

I'm an Oilers guy and I don't think of Fleury as being a total dick. Why the hate Shredder?

I've never liked players of his type to begin with, and the fact that he played for Calgary made him that much more hate-worthy. Although when they were both there, he was the lightning rod that took the spotlight of hate away from Doug Gilmour. It wasn't until he went to Toronto that I learned to hate him (mostly because of the '93 playoffs).

"At least he doesn't have anterograde amnesia."

Well, yeah, I guess there's that.

Although when they were both there, he was the lightning rod that took the spotlight of hate away from Doug Gilmour. It wasn't until he went to Toronto that I learned to hate him (mostly because of the '93 playoffs).

Didn't the Kings win in 93? Why would that make you hate Gilmour?

Shredder - how can you hate anyone from that 93 Toronto team? Not only were they a great team, but they had the decency to play one of the greatest series ever, and then bow down to the Great One.

If I close my eyes I can still see Felix the Cat flailing away in the final minutes of game seven.

Not to mention that Wendell Clark's wrist shot is the greatest looking shot by any player ever. Anytime it takes you three hops to wind up for a wrister, you know your a bad###.

I've never liked players of his type to begin with

Wow. I would actually put him in the pantheon with Guerrero in terms of players who I love to watch because they're just so amazing, albeit in different ways. Fleury was a big instigator in the Punchup in Piestany for god's sake. He pretended to machine gun the Russian bench after he scored a goal. He once borrowed an autographed Fleury jersey from a fan in the stands because his own jersey was covered in blood. To each his own I guess, and I could see how you could hate him as an opposing but he really was one of a kind.

how can you hate anyone from that 93 Toronto team?

Try having CBC shove the Leafs in your face for 29 years. I hate the 93 Toronto team, as well as prior and following Leaf teams.

Shredder - how can you hate anyone from that 93 Toronto team? Not only were they a great team, but they had the decency to play one of the greatest series ever, and then bow down to the Great One.

By bow-down, you mean getting screwed in Game 6 by one of the worst superstar non-calls in sports history, right?

By bow-down, you mean getting screwed in Game 6 by one of the worst superstar non-calls in sports history, right?

You're talking about when Gilmour head-butted Gretzky and didn't get called for it, right?

By bow-down, you mean getting screwed in Game 6 by one of the worst superstar non-calls in sports history, right?

IT WAS A HIGH-STICK!
HE WAS CUT BY IT!
AUTOMATIC PENALTY!

As a Leaf fan, it's the angriest I've ever gotten since they traded Courtnall for Kordic.

High stick, should have been a misconduct, he was on the ice in OT to score the winner when he still should have been in the box with LA penalty killing.

God, I hate Kerry Fraser.

In case anyone's curious, here's a video of Fleury batting.

And running. Dude runs like a Molina brother.

You're talking about when Gilmour head-butted Gretzky and didn't get called for it, right?

Oh please, this was the biggest rip-off I can think of in sports, and it's my Leafs who got screwed. Had the Leafs won the series as they should have, no telling if Roy's horseshoes would have held up in the finals against the Leafs. 10 straight wins in overtime ... give me a break!....

A more pleasant thought - it looks like Felix Jose is still playing baseball!

my Leafs who got screwed

Oh come ON

It's happened to everyone's team. Go up to any random Seattle Seahawks fan and ask him about that Super Bowl and he'll morph into a frothing lunatic immediately. Then go ask any random Steelers fan about their playoff game against the Colts that very same year, two games before the Super Bowl (which they managed to win despite the horrible officiating, bless Nick Harper and Mike Vanderjagt's souls) and you'll get precisely the same reaction. And the hell of it is, both sets of fans are right. The refs screw everybody at some time or another.

Yeah, but sometimes they're right. See: Leon Stickle. BTW Leon, if you happen to be reading this, well to put it nicely you got glasses way too late.

Baseball, if I may continue with this aside, is the only sport where I don't see officiating, particularly in the playoffs, generally leaning toward whichever team it would be in the sport's best financial interest to see win. The NBA is the most obvious case here, but it's been happening in the NFL for years now, too, and I saw a good bit of it in the NHL playoffs the past couple years as well. (It wasn't severe, but there were many little things the officials did or didn't do to help the Penguins out in their playoff run, in my opinion, and then they suddenly stopped at the Cup finals and called the series pretty much straight up, far as I could tell.)

I've only been following hockey since about 2000, so most of my memories of Fleury come from his horrible 2002-03 season with the Hawks (I am a Hawks' fan). That was... not a good hockey team, to say the least. IIRC, that year a bunch of Hawks (including Phil Housley & Fleury and probably Mark Bell, Tyler Arnason, and Chris Simon) were thrown out of a strip club in Columbus. That was the most memorable moment of the season.

Todd Gill, Louie DeBrusk, Sami Helenius, and Igor Korolev saw playing time for the Hawks that year.

I've only been following hockey since about 2000, so most of my memories of Fleury come from his horrible 2002-03 season with the Hawks (I am a Hawks' fan). That was... not a good hockey team, to say the least.

In the 90s he was one of the more exciting players, and a damn good one too. He was the kind of player that you hated if he wasn't on your team (30+ goals and 100+ PIM no sweat) but you still respected his ability, so I can't fault anyone for hating him. He was drafted because the Flames thought he would be a nice addition to their minor league team. Yeah, I'd say that worked out. At 5'6", I'm not sure that if he was drafted this year he would be a full time player until he was 25 or so or be drafted, ala Martin St. Louis.

I've seen enough of his 90s highlights to know he was a special player. By the time he reached the Hawks, though, he was toast & basically brought in as a publicity stunt.

He is absolutely hated by a good number of Hawks' fans. I don't hate him- his childhood was pretty messed up & he deserves sympathy, even if he was horrible & kind of a ######## while with the Hawks.

I always figured that he was more than a publicity stunt for the Hawks. IIRC, his Olympics were seen as what he could do if he was under control. He'd always had a good relationship with the Sutter running the Hawks at that time so there was a connection there too.

The NBA is the most obvious case here, but it's been happening in the NFL for years now, too, and I saw a good bit of it in the NHL playoffs the past couple years as well.

I'm sure that Gary Bettman is locked in a dark room somewhere, muttering about Tampa, Calgary, Edmonton, Carolina and Ottawa. I blame the NHL for a lot of stuff but I doubt that there's any truth to what you're saying.

"Then go ask any random Steelers fan about their playoff game against the Colts that very same year, two games before the Super Bowl (which they managed to win despite the horrible officiating, bless Nick Harper and Mike Vanderjagt's souls) and you'll get precisely the same reaction."

Atomic Jesus wanted the Steelers to win that game. It's the only possible explanation.

My favorite ref conspiracy moment though, by far, was getting hit with a penalty for 12 men on the field... when there were 11 men on the field. Cowher had someone in the booth send down a photo of the field, with only 11 guys on it, and he jammed it into the ref's front pocket. He got a fine, and after the game, both refs got suspended for ####### up.

The Phantom Coin toss didn't do it for you, Vlad?

I don't especially subscribe to a Conspiracy to Screw the Steelers -- the Steelers are one of the NFL's most popular (read: most profitable) franchises and it's in the NFL's best interests that they win, not lose -- but the Steelers were on the business end of several really horrible referee gaffes during the Cowher Era.

However, I do find a conspiracy theory in the 2005 playoffs more plausible. The NFL really wanted to get Peyton Manning into a Super Bowl (and finally succeeded in 2006) and while I don't know what the deal was with the refs in the Colts-Steelers game, it was by far the worst officiated game I've ever seen, so terrible and so one-sided that anybody watching had to wonder whether the refs were just openly trying to hand the game to the Colts. Even Colts fans I know, when not being pissed off at Nick Harper for running directly at Ben Roethlisberger instead of up the sideline, agreed the officiating was ridiculous.

After Manning was gone, though, the most money was in the Steelers winning -- and lo and behold, the questionable calls in the AFC Championship and Super Bowl went Pittsburgh's way. The league's way of saying 'yeah, we messed up the Colts game, sorry'... or semi-fixed games?

The truth is out there...

Man, I guess BBTF falls outside of Ottawa's No Cry Zone.