awesome

Starr said he first realized a player was using steroids on the Reds in 1984.

Starr told FLORIDA TODAY there were some players on the Florida Marlins' team that won the franchise's first World Series in 1997 that used steroids

While Starr won't name players' names, he did estimate to FLORIDA TODAY there were "some teams that had a high percentage" of players using steroids while he was still in the game.

"By high percentage, meaning 30 to 40 percent of the team might have been using," Starr said. "(But) some teams had maybe only one or two."

"When Mark McGwire was discovered taking androstenedione, when that hit ESPN, four players walked into my office within an hour and asked, 'Where can I get androstenedione,' " Starr said.

LOL.

That Reds 84 team had a certain 43 yr old trying to hang on to his career....hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

;)

That Reds 84 team had a certain 43 yr old trying to hang on to his career....hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

And who was hanging out with people with criminal convictions for dealing steriods.

Players on '97 Marlins who might fit this description include one who rubbed a certain cream at some point, and perhaps that other guy who does .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address).

This can't be true. Bud Selig wouldn't lie!

A statement like this:

My job was to keep people healthy, my job was to keep people from injuring themselves. I couldn't do that. I wasn't able to do the things I could do to protect these guys.

is extremely telling and reflects quite badly on the organizations and MLB. It could be total BS (as always), but from this interview, Star sounds quite sincere. The level of apparent complicity with the organizations and MLB jumps a number of orders of magnitude with this interview. If some of the trainers wanted the players to STOP using, then the only people who could overrule them would be the GM's (which means the GM's had to know).

It also explains some of the issues with conflicting player reports. It could be the case that certain teams only had a small number of users and others had a much larger number. That could definitely cause certain players to think that the problem was rampant and others to think that it was very isolated.


It's strange, though, that Starr's testimony didn't leak as fast as everyone else's... despite the fact that he has been interviewed FOUR times by the Mitchell commission. It's almost as if whoever is leaking steroid information is more interested in implicating the players rather than the owners and MLB... hmmm....

Does no one find it fishy that Dale Torborg, formerly strength and conditioning coach for the Expos and Marlins and now conditioning coordinator for the White Sox, son of Jeff Torborg, was a WCW wrestler for four years?

1973 House Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce: “Drug use exists… in all sports and levels of competition… In some instances, the degree of improper drug use — primarily amphetamines and anabolic steroids — can only be described as alarming.”
10/4/88 David Letterman Show: "Top Nine (*) Good Things About Steroids" (*they were doing a "Top Ten cutbacks" routine at the time)
1988 Fenway Park crowd: "Steeerrrrr--oids, steeeerrrr-oids."
1991 Fay Vincent memo: "This [toothless] prohibition applies to all illegal drugs ... including steroids."
1994 Kevin Hallinan quote (MLB's chief of security): "We've heard it too, but what can we do?"
1995 Randy Smith quote: "We all know there's steroid use, and it is definitely becoming more prevalent. The ballplayers all know the dangers of it. We preach it every year."
1995 Tony Gwynn quote: "It's like the big secret we're not supposed to talk about, but believe me, we wonder just like the rest of the people. I'm standing out there in the outfield when a guy comes up, and I'm thinking, `Hey, I wonder if this guy is on steroids.'”
1995 Frank Thomas quote: "I'd love to see testing myself... I went in to see my doctor this winter, and he even asked me, `Hey. are you on steroids?'"
1995 Kevin Malone quote: "If individuals are going around and getting an unfair advantage because of steroid use, we should do something about it. You hear the rumors of usage is way up, and it would be nice to know if those are accurate."
1996 MLB official spokesman Pat Courtney: “I don’t think the concern is there that it’s being used.”
1997 Denver Post: “Some players are clearly willing to cross the line to gain a competitive edge.”
1997 Herk Robinson quote: "I hate to say this, but it didn't do a whole lot of good to know the policy. You weren't going [to] solve anything... If a player is helping your club immensely, you know how it is -- maybe it's better you don't know."
1998 Mark McGwire quote: "Everybody I know in the game of baseball uses the same stuff I use [discussing androstenedione]."
1998 St. Louis Post-Dispatch writer Bernie Miklasz quote: "To be able to decipher the label on this andro bottle, you have to intentionally look, and look hard. And that's out of bounds."
Sandy Alderson, 2000: "[Major league steroid use] hasn't really been a problem and it's not clear that it's a problem today. I think there's a total absence of that."

Bud Selig, 1995: "If baseball has a problem, I must say candidly that we were not aware of it. It certainly hasn't been talked about much."
Bud Selig, 1998: "''I never even heard about it. I ran a team and nobody was closer to their players and I never heard any comment from them. It wasn't until 1998 or '99 that I heard the discussion."
Bud Selig to Congress, 2006: "In 1994, before anybody was really talking about steroids in baseball, we proposed a program of testing for such substances to the MLBPA. As early as 1998, I began formulating a strategic plan to eliminate the use of performance enhancing substances from the game."

There's not enough gossip in this story to get any attention. Steroids has become the People magazine or TMZ for sports guys who are too ashamed to admit they like gossip. I'm going to start referring to groups of baseball fans as gaggles.

Starr told FLORIDA TODAY there were some players on the Florida Marlins' team that won the franchise's first World Series in 1997 that used steroids

1997*

By high percentage, meaning 30 to 40 percent of the team might have been using," Starr said. "(But) some teams had maybe only one or two."

About a year or so ago, I posted that I thought 35% or so of guys had tried something, and most teams had a couple of guys using a lot. My guess is this went up right around 1999-2002.

Today, a lot of people in baseball are very interested in listening to what Starr and some others have to say. The committee investigating the steroids issue headed by former Sen. George Mitchell has interviewed Starr four times, and he expects to be called again. Starr told FLORIDA TODAY there were some players on the Florida Marlins' team that won the franchise's first World Series in 1997 that used steroids.

While fans hear the names McGwire, Sosa and Bonds when the steroids issue is discussed, Starr's name is actually a very popular one with the committee trying to figure out just how rampant the problem is in baseball.

"I'm in a neat position after being in baseball for 30 years and not being involved in it now," Starr said."

In fairness to Mitchell. edit: Saw that Russ mentioned this but wanted to emalhsize it since I have been very critical of the Mitchell Comittee.

***

My whole thing is, I don't totally blame the players," Starr said. "They didn't abuse the system. They used the system. The system was such that there was no testing so...

I agree with this as well. It is in many ways a systemic problem.

Starr remembers one player who ended the season in 1989 weighing 171 pounds. In the spring, the same player reported to camp weighing 205, and his body fat had actually dropped from eight percent to 5.8.

Mariano Duncan's SLG% went from .357 in 1989 to .476 in 1990.

He is listed at 6' 0" 185 which would fit the size he quoted.

#10 is solid.
get that man a cookie

Starr remembers one player who ended the season in 1989 weighing 171 pounds. In the spring, the same player reported to camp weighing 205, and his body fat had actually dropped from eight percent to 5.8.

Mariano Duncan's SLG% went from .357 in 1989 to .476 in 1990.
He is listed at 6' 0" 185 which would fit the size he quoted.

Could be, but there are several other 1989-90 Reds who fit the vague criteria. The first one I thought of was Chris Sabo, but you can throw in Todd Benzinger, Barry Larkin, Tom Browning, Jose Rijo, Norm Charlton, Eric Davis, Jeff Reed, Danny Jackson, Herm Winningham, even Ken Griffey Sr. I'm ashamed to confess that I did not make an obsessive study of the proportional body frames of the 1989-90 Reds when I had the chance, and I'm paying the price now.

After reading #10's recount of how often it was openly discussed, is it any wonder Bonds decided "me too"?

This reminds me so much of the scapegoating that went on after the Black Sox scandal.

How many didn't?

How many didn't?

Why, those not caught yet of course.

You should then remind yourself of how many players didn't decide "me too".

Okay. How many? I'd like to see the Mitchell report say this.

After reading #10's recount of how often it was openly discussed

And during a secret meeting at Louie's Limbo Lounge they ALL decided to start taking steroids at the same exact time!

Does no one find it fishy that Dale Torborg, formerly strength and conditioning coach for the Expos and Marlins and now conditioning coordinator for the White Sox, son of Jeff Torborg, was a WCW wrestler for four years?

I will not heard a bad word about the KISS Demon!

Bud Selig, 1998: "''I never even heard about it. I ran a team and nobody was closer to their players and I never heard any comment from them. It wasn't until 1998 or '99 that I heard the discussion."

That's an oddly-worded comment for 1998, but hey, he's an odd guy.

You should then remind yourself of how many players didn't decide "me too".

The ones that were taking amphetamines and didn't think being muscular was for them.

Bud Selig, 1998: "''I never even heard about it. I ran a team and nobody was closer to their players and I never heard any comment from them. It wasn't until 1998 or '99 that I heard the discussion."

That's an oddly-worded comment for 1998, but hey, he's an odd guy.

Bud probably believes his players liked him and his haircut.

The time-traveling quote from Selig Nakamura actually occurred in 2005. Good catch, sorry.