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Oh boy, THE Miguel Olivo!
Seriously, the Giants like how Molina handles their young pitchers and he's a decent value at $6M. They're not interested in trading him for a marginal prospect or two.
You win.
Eww, really? They're kinda creepy looking.
He should change it to "Devil."
Well, like I said -- good for the Rays for getting what they needed for what they did.
I'm just saying that the Pirates should have forced the Rays to blink and either added a 3rd prospect, or, swapped Niemann for Davis.
Were I working the deal from the Pirates end, I absolutely would have been saying precisely what I said in this thread: We have exactly, perfectly, and precisely what you need... you have a surplus of young pitching talent -- we won't bother asking for your best, but we're going to insist on your second best.
If they held out, I'd have scuttled the deal.
Tough week for the Sawx, no? I still think they'll pull out a playoff spot.
Doesn't seem to be much interest. The Rays seemed most interested as of yesterday but that seems more like they were using that as leverage against the Pirates while the Pirates were messing around with that three-team deal.
Fair enough, you probably don't even have to buy them dinner.
Rotoworld snark:
...but you doesn't have to call him Johnson!
Hah? Anybody? Ray Jay Johnson? Aw, forget it.
Why does it matter what Niemann is ranked within the Rays' system? The Pirates got a nice return here.
Levski, what's the angle? Is it the Schilling deal? Or just Kevin, etc.?
Khalil Greene and Ben McDonald is a nice return? Blah.
"Two pizzas for the price of one at Doughies!"
"Doughies has terrible pizza."
"Yeah, but there's two!"
Then we agree on something after all.
The Pirates problem - well, one among many of their problems - for the last 5 years or so has been that they "settle" on nominal upgrades. I'm simply saying that a wise strategy might be to stop "settling".
Source
<Micheal Caine>Some people just want to watch the world burn</Alfred>
I named my first puppy Mr. Johnson waay back in 1978, so yeah, I get it.
You left an open tag there, Cowboy.
OK . . . Flushing is a Bay, too, you know. Can we work that in, somehow?
I would say because deadline trading isn't a blind proposition... If I'm a GM looking to move a quality -- even star quality -- player, I'm most certainly going to be aware of what my trading partner has to deal and also (as best I can) how he values what he has to deal.
The reports seems to indicate that the Pirates wanted Davis -- and I think it's also a given that most folks, be they posters here, analysts, scouts, etc -- would consider Davis the #2 pitching prospect in the Rays' system after the untouchable Price.
It's not so much a matter of where Niemann/Davis rank relative to each other - it's a matter of which one is more valuable... and I'm simply saying I'd have held out for Davis.
It's not only that, but Bay's middle name is Ray(mond).
Bah, telling jokes on the internet is so complicated.
Revenue from t-shirt sales could pay for an extension all by itself.
zonk strikes with a vengeance!
Nope.
Or for that cool new stadium the Rays wanted to build (right on the Bay, of course) but have put on the back burner.
Sure that's an interesting bargain strategy... but it should be a total non-factor when it comes to deciding whether to hold onto Jason Bay or trade him.
Stark just said they were major leaguers. Something like David Purcey and Brandon League for Ibanez might have made sense. However, the talks are now dead, according to Stark.
Well, you all pissed me off so much I just had to pick up the red phone. If you'll excuse me a moment, I have McClatchy on hold.
back in 5 minutes.
Is that pizza by Doughies, or Doughie's Pizza Cafe?
Why do we think this? He has failed every time he has tried. For 5 seasons. And they handled the situation incredibly poorly and incredibly publically each time.
Someone else may have been able to get it done.
It's not that he can't be traded; it's that Theo hasn't been happy enough with the return to pull the trigger. It seems to have worked out just fine for Boston - publicity be damned.
Ed Wade could have traded Manny for a bullpen in, like, 30 seconds.
What on Earth are we going to do with 50,000 "Jason Ray Bay" t-shirts?
Edit: And mine is the first 4:00 PM post. Over!
I hope the Marlins thought better of their (reported) $2 million demand.
I guess part of the reason here is that I'm in the minority in thinking that the Pirates absolutely weren't in a position where they "had to" trade Bay. They're unfortunately looking up at two teams that are likely to be very good for the next 1-2-3 years -- but the Pirates aren't the hopeless franchise they were a few years ago. McLouth has emerged as legit star. The offensive holes have basically been reduced to SS/3B. The pitching has been downright awful, but I just cannot see Snell, Maholm, Gorzelanny, and Duke all continuing to suck at the rate they've sucked this season.
I'm not ready to say they're a darkhorse wildcard contender next year, but they're 8 games under in baseball's toughest top to bottom division.
I could see a legitimate argument to be made for keeping Bay, spinning the wheel on the first 3 months of 2009, then just trying again if lightning doesn't strike.
It could still be a little while before we hear if any deals snuck through.
Nah -- he used the Dodger rumor to create the impression he had some leverage, and convince the others he couldn't be held up. Or he just waited them out, believing (maybe correctly) the Tampa rumor was just a feint by the Pirates to try to lure him into caving and sweetening the deal.
If I recall correctly, it was pretty well past the deadline before the Nomar-Cabrera-Mientkiewicz deal hit the news. I'll wait patiently.
Then name a single pitcher whom the Pirates have ruined in recent years who has recovered anything like his promising early form -- at least one who did so without getting the hell out of Pittsburgh in order to do so. Until they get of there, I see little reason to believe any of them will return to form.
OK but can we agree that the existence of Wade Davis doesn't play into this?
Pull the friggin' trigger.
Bay for Niemann + Brignac.
What?
It's after 4 PM?
HA! I win.
What about Bay to the Bay?
Great
So now the interesting question: who blinks??? Does Manny try to hold the Sox hostage by claiming his has an ouchie to get his way (tear up the options NOW)? Or do the Sox say they have a valuable asset in those options, and if Manny wants to claim he's hurt, they'll make him take enough X-rays to light him up like Three Mile Island?
So I'm assuming all of those guys were actually traded.
Only question is, where?
Everyone always forgets about Kylie Farnsworth.
I think the biggest deal is the one that wasn't made.
Raul Ibanez is still in Seattle.
Houston!
Ed Wade is gearing up!
To be fair, it's only recently that the Pirates have started having pitchers who had one good season and then became terrible. From 1995 to 2002 or so, their pitchers either suffered career-destroying injuries while still in the minors, or were never any good at all.
Except Joe Torre. He can't forget. The lambs still scream.
Or that Greek basketball team.
Ian Snell was looking good but then this year happened. There's still time for The Dukester isn't there? I mean he's The Dukester.
No trades for Oakland or San Fran, Seattle only dumping Rhodes. The Astros didn't pick up any more relievers besides Hawkins. Also, the Dodgers standing pat is odd. Casey Blake is their big move, I guess. Once again, a lot of smoke and little fire on deadline day. It still passes the work day away.
Actually, he can't. He's not a FA because of those nasty little options. And the Japanese leagues recognize contractual rights held by U.S. clubs. But I think he could sign with Newark.
Amen to that.
The 24-year-old posted a 2.63 ERA in 13 2/3 innings for the Rockies earlier this season, but had a 4.73 ERA in 45 2/3 innings at Triple-A. He had a 41/16 K/BB ratio in the minors, but he doesn't have a great shot at long-term success in the majors.
I spoke too soon about the Astros!
And Fuentes stays in Colorado.
They could try to extract a posting fee...
Pirates fans to Sam M: Cry us a river.
Manny deal HAPPENED!!
From Rotoworld.
I knew there had to be another big one coming!
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