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Monday, February 04, 2008

FOX Sports: Perry: Position-by-position look at MLB’s worst

Unlike a closet full of boisterous Eleganza outfits...these bits never seem to go out of style!

SS — Omar Vizquel, Giants

Seriously, props to the Giants, without whom this column might not have been possible. Anyhow, Vizquel has a credible Hall of Fame case, but at this stage he has no business being a regular at the highest level. Defensively, he still makes the routine plays and the occasional highlight grab, but his range is now well below average. His offense is even worse than that. Vizquel will be 41 years old not long after Opening Day, so it’s probably time to consider making graceful exit. On a broader level, it’s challenging to impart just how bad the San Francisco offense is going to be in 2008.

CF — Mark Kotsay, Braves

Kotsay is injury prone, merely average defensively at this point, and last season, when healthy, wasn’t able to hit a lick. Certainly he won’t put up stats as grim as he did in 2007, when he flailed about to the tune of .214 AVG/.279 OBP/.296 SLG. However, you can improve upon those deliriously bad numbers and still not rise to the level of acceptability. The sooner top prospect Jordan Schafer is ready to take over in center, the better off the Braves will be. Of course, Schafer hasn’t played a game above the Triple-A level, so they’re likely stuck with Kotsay for the time being.

Repoz Posted: February 04, 2008 at 03:56 PM | 42 comment(s)
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1. Steve Treder Posted: February 04, 2008 at 05:10 PM (#2683501)

it’s challenging to impart just how bad the San Francisco offense is going to be in 2008.

It will be abominable, amiss, atrocious, awful, bad news, beastly, blah, bottom out, bummer, careless, cheap, cheesy, crappy, cruddy, crummy, defective, deficient, diddly, dissatisfactory, downer, dreadful, erroneous, fallacious, faulty, garbage, god-awful, gross, grungy, icky, imperfect, inadequate, incorrect, inferior, junky, lousy, not good, off, poor, raunchy, rough, sad, scuzzy, sleazeball, sleazy, slipshod, stinking, substandard, synthetic, the pits, unacceptable, and unsatisfactory.

Not all that challenging to impart.

2. EddieA Posted: February 04, 2008 at 05:10 PM (#2683503)

The Giants first baseman, whoever he is, will beat Millar out.

3. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: February 04, 2008 at 05:15 PM (#2683508)

How did Millar beat out Sexson?

4. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: February 04, 2008 at 05:18 PM (#2683509)

Synthetic?

5. Justin Zeth Posted: February 04, 2008 at 05:24 PM (#2683516)

You're a foul one, Mr. Sabean!
You're the king of sinful sots!
Your lineup's a dead tomato splotched with moldy purple spots, Mr. Sabean!
It's a three decker sauerkraut and toadstool sandwich... with arsenic sauce!

6. Steve Treder Posted: February 04, 2008 at 05:26 PM (#2683521)

Synthetic?

Hey, the Dictionary.com thesaurus came up with it.

7. Wakefieldfan Posted: February 04, 2008 at 05:27 PM (#2683522)

#3:

I was thinking the same thing. A .365-ish OBP from any position is nothing to scoff at, and Millar can still slug the ball a bit. Not a fantastic 1B by any means, but he's not one of the names that comes immediately to mind when you think "worst regulars in baseball." And if we're going by last year's production only, Lyle Overbay was also significantly worse.

8. AROM wants you off his lawn Posted: February 04, 2008 at 05:29 PM (#2683527)

Vizquel's range is well below average? What in the world does he base this on?

9. Wakefieldfan Posted: February 04, 2008 at 05:31 PM (#2683530)

Vizquel's range is well below average? What in the world does he base this on?

I think most people would replace "range" with "arm," no?

10. Non-Fat Listachio Ice Cream Posted: February 04, 2008 at 05:32 PM (#2683531)

11. Better Schafer than Sorry Posted: February 04, 2008 at 05:33 PM (#2683534)

You could do worse at 1b than Millar. Ishikawa!
or if the Royals run out shealy/Gload out again.

Kotsay is going to be pretty bad, but the Marlins CF might do worse, esp if Maybin is held back in the minors for a while ( as he should be! ).
There is still the Orioles CF, Pirates and Giants at CF et al

12. JMM Posted: February 04, 2008 at 05:36 PM (#2683537)

Kotsay is going to be pretty bad, but the Marlins CF might do worse, esp if Maybin is held back in the minors for a while ( as he should be! ).
There is still the Orioles CF, Pirates and Giants at CF et al

Aaron Roward should actually be one of the few non-pitching Giants who isn't a complete embarassment.

13. DCA Posted: February 04, 2008 at 05:37 PM (#2683539)

But can you really make one of these lists without including an Oriole?

The Orioles presumptive starting SS was most recently seen putting up a 592 OPS in AA. That would be a good start.

14. Better Schafer than Sorry Posted: February 04, 2008 at 05:39 PM (#2683542)

Aaron Roward should actually be one of the few non-pitching Giants who isn't a complete embarassment.

forgot about that splurge!

15. Shooty Is A One Man Legion Posted: February 04, 2008 at 05:39 PM (#2683543)

Kotsay is going to be pretty bad, but the Marlins CF might do worse, esp if Maybin is held back in the minors for a while ( as he should be! ).
There is still the Orioles CF, Pirates and Giants at CF et al

I'll take Adam Jones, Nyjer Morgan or Rajai Davis over Kotsay.

16. In the Disney betting pool, Roy Oswalt Posted: February 04, 2008 at 05:40 PM (#2683545)

Teahen the worst RF in the game? Really? Kearns also slugged in the low .400s, and he's older. Xavier Nady? How about whoever plays right for Houston? Or St. Louis? Is Teahen even in the bottom third of RFs?

17. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 04, 2008 at 05:43 PM (#2683552)

Pirates CF is likely to be Nate McLouth, who's actually pretty good.

Since when does Omar have a credible HOF case?

18. Shooty Is A One Man Legion Posted: February 04, 2008 at 05:43 PM (#2683553)

forgot about that splurge!

Me too!

19. The Mets make Russlan sad Posted: February 04, 2008 at 05:50 PM (#2683561)

Where's Patterson going to sign? A lot of teams could do worse than signing him for one season.

20. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: February 04, 2008 at 05:50 PM (#2683562)

Yeah, Millar was "eh." But can you really make one of these lists without including an Oriole? Seems Perry was too busy trashing Pierre to do a job on either of the Jays, both of whom were far worse in LF than Pierre.

I think he's talking about 2008, and with Luke Scott around it's pretty unlikely that either Jay gets significant playing time in LF in 2008. If the Orioles get Jones, an OF of Scott, Jones, and Markakis could actually be pretty good. The IF is another story...

21. danielj Posted: February 04, 2008 at 05:51 PM (#2683563)

I wonder how many HACKING MASS team submissions will use a name similar to "Your SF Giants"?

22. Better Schafer than Sorry Posted: February 04, 2008 at 05:53 PM (#2683567)

So did that poetry thread get any more hits? Been away from BTF for the weekend!

23. slothinator Posted: February 04, 2008 at 06:02 PM (#2683581)

The Giants first baseman, whoever he is, will beat Millar out.

Right now, it's going to be Ortmeier. And yes, he would "beat" Millar for this type of list.

24. greenback345397SM6 Posted: February 04, 2008 at 06:17 PM (#2683594)

I'd rather have Durham and Vizquel than Kennedy and Izturis.

25. flournoy Posted: February 04, 2008 at 06:18 PM (#2683595)

I'm disappointed to see a Brave make the list, but I'm hard pressed to think of a worse starting CF than Kotsay off the top of my head. Perry says that Schafer hasn't played a game above AAA. Well that's true, but he hasn't even played a game above advanced A yet, either.

Perry could use a new picture for his snapshot.

26. Calvin Schiraldi Posted: February 04, 2008 at 06:21 PM (#2683600)

No, that's as good as he'll ever look with his creepy John Travolta hair line.

27. Harold Reynolds: An Erotic Life (AG#1F) Posted: February 04, 2008 at 06:21 PM (#2683604)

I was thinking the same thing. A .365-ish OBP from any position is nothing to scoff at, and Millar can still slug the ball a bit. Not a fantastic 1B by any means, but he's not one of the names that comes immediately to mind when you think "worst regulars in baseball." And if we're going by last year's production only, Lyle Overbay was also significantly worse.

I agree, and Richie Sexson was far worse than both.

My Hacking Mass Team

C Jason Kendall MIL
1B Richie Sexson SEA
2B Ray Durham SF
3B Whoever starts for Minnesota (Aurilia won't start in SF because they'll get Crede, right?)
LF Emil Brown OAK or Juan Pierre LAD
CF Mark Kotsay ATL or Corey Patterson, for whoever he signs with
RF Austin Kearns WAS
DH Jose Vidro SEA

28. Chris Needham Posted: February 04, 2008 at 06:36 PM (#2683618)

Teahen the worst RF in the game? Really? Kearns also slugged in the low .400s, and he's older.

Yeah. Why would anyone want a RFer who, in a down season, had a .355 on base percentage and hit 35 doubles while playing in a brutal pitcher's park.

29. DCW3 * Posted: February 04, 2008 at 07:12 PM (#2683640)

Teahen the worst RF in the game? Really? Kearns also slugged in the low .400s, and he's older. Xavier Nady? How about whoever plays right for Houston? Or St. Louis?

I thought the Astros were planning to move Pence to right. And the Cardinals will most likely be using Ankiel there, and he could turn out to be a disaster, but he could be very good too.

30. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: February 04, 2008 at 07:30 PM (#2683652)

Omar Vizquel is a pretty solid player.

He was ~20 runs below average on offense.

Dial's DRS has him 23 runs above average on defense. UZR has him 16 runs above average. Dewan has him 20 plays above average.

The evidence we have, drawn from different data sets, all agree that Omar Vizquel is still one of the very best defensive shortstops in baseball, so good that he offsets his putrid bat entirely. Omar Vizquel was league average last year, nowhere close to being the worst in baseball.

31. Harold Reynolds: An Erotic Life (AG#1F) Posted: February 04, 2008 at 07:40 PM (#2683663)

I thought the Astros were planning to move Pence to right.

Which reminds me, Michael Bourn could very well be worse than Kotsay. Not likely, but he merits mentioning.

32. DFA Posted: February 04, 2008 at 07:49 PM (#2683671)

Aubrey Huff's OPS in the first half of 2007: 686. Take that Vidro!

33. Johnny Clash Posted: February 04, 2008 at 08:15 PM (#2683683)

Since when does Omar have a credible HOF case?

Since he accumulated 2,600 hits and 11 Gold Gloves playing shortstop. Just sayin'.

34. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: February 04, 2008 at 10:56 PM (#2683758)

Since he accumulated 2,600 hits and 11 Gold Gloves playing shortstop. Just sayin'.

Yeah, Omar's starting to collect enough hanging-around value to make his election a lot more likely than I thought just a couple years ago. (He always seemed like the kind of guy that sportswriters would cite as a HoFer to make themselves feel all special about understanding there's more to the game that RBI totals, but not someone who would actually get any votes.)

On the merits, he's exactly comparable to Dave Concepcion, except that Concepcion was clearly a better player. I don't really see anything that Vizquel can do to change that calculation, other than play until he's 45 or something.

35. The Mets make Russlan sad Posted: February 04, 2008 at 11:07 PM (#2683766)

On the merits, he's exactly comparable to Dave Concepcion, except that Concepcion was clearly a better player. I don't really see anything that Vizquel can do to change that calculation, other than play until he's 45 or something.

Why was Concepcion a clearly better player? He has 4 OPS+ points on Vizquel but Vizquel is a better basestealer. Was Concepcion much better than Vizquel at defense?

36. AJMacaroni Posted: February 04, 2008 at 11:10 PM (#2683768)

Why was Concepcion a clearly better player? He has 4 OPS+ points on Vizquel but Vizquel is a better basestealer. Was Concepcion much better than Vizquel at defense?

Paging Mr. Rosenheck.

37. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: February 04, 2008 at 11:17 PM (#2683772)

Why was Concepcion a clearly better player? He has 4 OPS+ points on Vizquel but Vizquel is a better basestealer.

Peak.

Top five EqA seasons:

287, 285, 281, 280, 274 - Concepcion
281, 265, 264, 263, 263 - Vizquel

Top five OPS+ seasons:

116, 114, 107, 107, 106 - Concepcion
110, 104, 99, 98, 95 - Vizquel

At his best, Concepcion was significantly better than Vizquel at his best.

EDIT: I don't think one needs to accept Dan R's idiosyncratic but not uncompelling determination of the historical zero-point of value to see Concepcion's superiority to Vizquel. In fact, if you accept Rosenheck's measurement, then Vizquel and Concepcion are no longer usefully comparable at all, and the discussion is moot.

38. Walt Davis Posted: February 05, 2008 at 02:33 AM (#2683842)

On the merits, he's exactly comparable to Dave Concepcion, except that Concepcion was clearly a better player. I don't really see anything that Vizquel can do to change that calculation

Well, he's got 11 gold gloves. The sainted Ozzie Smith has just 13. Aparicio had 9. Concepcion just 5. Vizquel and Aparicio are pretty similar; superficially he looks a lot like Ozzie. And is Vizquel already the career leader in games at SS? If not, he's got a shot at 27,000 games at SS this year. 27,000 games at SS! That is amazing.

39. Walt Davis Posted: February 05, 2008 at 02:35 AM (#2683843)

OK, 2700 games maybe. :-) Although, for their fans, the Giants' season will probably seem about 24,400 games long.

40. DCW3 * Posted: February 05, 2008 at 03:04 AM (#2683846)

And is Vizquel already the career leader in games at SS?

Aparicio is still 13 games ahead of him, though Vizquel should pass him this year, barring disaster.

41. Cris E Posted: February 05, 2008 at 04:23 AM (#2683854)

My Hacking Mass Team

3B Whoever starts for Minnesota

Don't forget Lamb should be taking the lion's share of Punto's time this summer, God willin' and the creek don't rise...

42. RMc is the President of the United States Posted: February 05, 2008 at 09:25 AM (#2683883)

2B — Ray Durham, Giants
3B — Rich Aurilia, Giants
SS — Omar Vizquel, Giants

I think I see a pattern here...

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