And I thought the White Sox fans wanted Milledge and Pelfrey.

At least they didn't trade for Eric Byrnes. Yet.

Fwiw, Jayson Stark confirms on ESPN

I just submitted the Inquirer article about this about one second before the Robothal piece appeared here, so let's hope it doesn't show up. Anyway...

This is a "win now" move by Gillick...but you have to make more than one of those per season in order to actually win now. The Phils still have no third baseman or catcher.

They must really not like what they had in Floyd and the highly acclaimed Gonzalez.

From the Inquirer article:

Garcia gives the Phils a third mid-to-top-of-the-rotation starter, joining Brett Myers and Cole Hamels, and he could allow the Phils to trade Jon Lieber for much-needed bullpen help.

It seems to me that Gavin Floyd could have been used as bullpen help. Oh well, this gives the White Sox two chances to create a new Jon Garland.

Also, the Phillies have apparently decided to sign a locally popular veteran to replace Mike Lieberthal. No, not Piazza...Ben Davis.

Some people on Chicago's Comcast station are saying Rowand might be involved, too.

Hope there's no money going to Philly. Assuming there isn't, nice deal for the White Sox -- couple of young pitchers AND save $10 million, not to mention the upgrade from Garcia to McCarthy.

Still wouldn't be surprised to see Williams deal another starter.

Interesting - I thought that the rumor was that the White Sox wanted Rowand, but turned down Rowand + Floyd. Do they believe Gio Gonzales (who they traded last year for Thome) is worth more to them than Rowand?

Good for the Phillies, bad for the White Sox. Floyd's still young, but he's had two mediocre seasons in a row. Gonzalez fell apart last year. Garcia was durable, solidly above average, and a absolute steal given the market for SP this offseason.

Woo-hoo! Floyd is gone...no more weekly stories about how he is "maturing" and "getting it together."

OK, who wants Lieber?

Yeah at this point, it looks like a good deal for Philly. If Rowand is involved on top of these two, it could get interesting.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Gonzalez was a former Sox prospect right? Came to the Phils for Thome if I'm remembering correctly.

I guess this means that Vazquez isn't going anywhere.

I bet MN would take Lieber. Veteran groundballer with a short contract of modest size for Rincon? Dollars or kids to make things right if Ryan chokes on the salary for 08? It could happen...

I would like to remind those saying "good deal for Philly" that Gio Gonzalez was 21 years old when he had his bad year with Reading last year, and that Garcia is a free agent after this coming year.

Updated Thome Trade:

Traded:

Jim Thome
Gavin Floyd

Recieved:

Rowand
Fabio Castro
Freddy Garcia

There has to be another shoe here. They have 6 starters now and none of them is a guy who can go to the bullpen or be stashed at AAA. I do think we need at least one insurance policy against Hamels/Moyer/Eaton going down, but I don't see how they can make it work with these six.

Gonzalez and Daniel Haigwood and Rowand were all traded for Thome. I guess Gillick decided that both of those pitching prospects were lemons, or else that Freddy Garcia is going to overpower the NL with ultimate awesomeness.

To me it looks like a good deal for both sides, but a win for the White Sox overall. And I hate that prick Kenny. Kenny!

By the by Pat, make sure you get your pitcher looked at before the deal is completed. We don't want to another situation like that again. Buyer beware my ass.

This move makes the Eaton deal look even stranger. I'd rather have Lieber at 1/8 than Eaton at 3/24.

The Sox must be willing to flip one or both pitchers, I can't believe they don't want a ML outfielder.

If Garcia isn't the 83 MPH meatball tosser he was in the first half, it's a win for the Phillies, if his velocity loss is permanent, then Williams got rid of him just in time rather than watch him become the new Russ Ortiz.

Most people think Jon Lieber is going to be gone soon, Thirty-two. I guess it's good that they maintained leverage by making this deal before trading him.

Some people on Chicago's Comcast station are saying Rowand might be involved, too.

And then Kenny's gonna get Daniel Haigwood back if it kills him.

In what world is McCarthy an upgrade on Garcia? I know he's considered promising, but McCarthy has not pitched all that well above AA. Meanwhile, Garcia's been a good and durable SP for several years running. And he's done it in both a HR-haven and a large park. He actually compares quite favorably to $100-million man Zito.

Much as I like Garcia, Gonzalez's numbers are pretty impressive. It sounds sort of fair.

Well Gavin Floyd, despite the great curveball, sucks. And while Gio is a nice arm he's not a grade A prospect. So right now this is Freddy Garcia for free and that's a good deal.

I bet MN would take Lieber. Veteran groundballer with a short contract of modest size for Rincon?

I wonder if the Twins relievers aren't too good to interest Pat Gillick.

In what world is McCarthy an upgrade on Garcia? I know he's considered promising, but McCarthy has not pitched all that well above AA. Meanwhile, Garcia's been a good and durable SP for several years running. And he's done it in both a HR-haven and a large park. He actually compares quite favorably to $100-million man Zito.

In 2005, McCarthy started 10 games for the Sox and put up a 110 ERA+. Last year he never really adjusted to the bullpen.

His early 2005 Charlotte numbers are deceiving, too. For the first two months he was having some mechanical problems (no changeup, which is arguably his best pitch). He dominated the rest of his time down there.

Gonzalez is an underrated prospect, one of three that the Phillies fans were constantly talking about throughout the 2006 season.

I can only assume that Gillick was annoyed by Gonzalez's overbearing stage parents.

Floyd still has really good stuff and he's still young. I'm no expert but his arm motion always looked complicated to me. I think it inhibited his ability to pitch with a consistent release point and he went through some terrible control spells in his short stints in the majors. I guess Chicago is hoping Don Cooper can turn him around.

Gavin's last 2 years have been pretty terrible. Like the deal for both teams with that said. You replace Garcia with McCarthy which might be a slight dropoff and save yourself 9 million or so by dealing Garcia adding Floyd and Gio seems like a bonus. For the Phillies a Myers, Hamels, Garcia, Moyer, Eaton rotation looks pretty good now if they can deal Lieber for some help in the OF or bullpen. They could also look to deal for a 3B since I'm not even sure who they have to play there.

They could also look to deal for a 3B since I'm not even sure who they have to play there.

Wes Helms, baby.

This is one of the worst trades I have ever seen; Garcia has a better VORP than Lilly and Meche over the last three years...COMBINED. Gonzalez is maybe the 25th best pitching prospect around; which is amazing compared to Floyd, who followed up his amazing Over 6 ERA at AAA and 10 ERA in the bigs in 05 with an 8 ERA in the bigs this season.

The Sox have long been trying to re-acquire Rowand; the official deal must have been Garcia for Floyd and "that guy we sent you in the Thome trade". Williams had forgotten that he sent Gio Gonz in the deal as well...

The Sox could have done WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better.

Rotoworld update:

The Nationals and Phillies have discussed a trade that would send Ryan Church to Philadelphia for Ryan Madson.
Madson might receive another opportunity to start if he becomes a National. The Phillies would use him strictly as a reliever if they keep him.

Seems like it could make sense for both teams; Church around to play when the annual Rowand injury occurs or take over for Victorino in the OF. The Nats try to see if Madson can start since they have what John Patterson and then drawing a blank here on the rest of the rotation in Washington.

In 2005, McCarthy started 10 games for the Sox and put up a 110 ERA+. Last year he never really adjusted to the bullpen.

He gave up 11 HR in 58 IP as a starter in those 10 games. Then 3 HR in 9 IP as a starter in 06. That's lots.

He may have struggled with the relief role, and maybe that's a lot of his problem. But he still has a lot to prove at the MLB level.

I forgot about that "stage parents" episode, Crispix. Great reminder.

I would say the White Sox won this trade because they got exactly what they wanted (room to try out McCarthy) plus two project pitchers plus salary room for later additions. Philly got a one-year upgrade on their rotation but still ain't going to scare the Mets.

The Nats try to see if Madson can start

Haha, the Phillies already discovered the answer to that question, and it's no. Madson is a man in the wrong era; I'm reading a book about the history of the Phillies and Jim Konstanty sounds a lot like him. Madson would be a good guy to pitch three innings a time 50 times a season.

Apparently Comcast Chicago is still rumoring that Rowand could be involved. Anybody hear anything concrete with regards to that?

He gave up 11 HR in 58 IP as a starter in those 10 games. Then 3 HR in 9 IP as a starter in 06. That's lots.

The thing is, when he gives up those homers, usually men aren't on base. His BB rate is extremely low.

I'm not saying he's going to go Jered Weaver on the league next year, but I think he's a fairly decent bet for 180 IP of a 4.60 ERA, which would be just slightly worse than what Garcia gave the 2006 team.

Thank God they traded Garcia to someone else.

Thank God they traded Garcia to someone else.

Next step, Jon Lieber for Ervin Santana!

I'm not saying he's going to go Jered Weaver on the league next year, but I think he's a fairly decent bet for 180 IP of a 4.60 ERA, which would be just slightly worse than what Garcia gave the 2006 team.

I can buy that line, I guess. It's about what ZIPS says. I'd say 20 percent more IP at a better ERA is more than slightly better, but that's probably splitting hairs.

Freddy Garcia in Citizen's Bank Park?! Joining Jamie Moyer and Adam Eaton?

What's the Mets single-season home run record? Beltran, Wright, and Delgado could all break it this year, whatever it is.

The thing is, when he gives up those homers, usually men aren't on base. His BB rate is extremely low.

It doesn't matter if you have Jose Lima's walk rate if you also have his home run rate.

Someone suggested Gio Gonzalez was the bigger piece than Gavin, as the former was initially drafted by the White Sox. They're now getting back the commodity they originally purchased.

This is one of the worst trades I have ever seen; Garcia has a better VORP than Lilly and Meche over the last three years...COMBINED. Gonzalez is maybe the 25th best pitching prospect around; which is amazing compared to Floyd, who followed up his amazing Over 6 ERA at AAA and 10 ERA in the bigs in 05 with an 8 ERA in the bigs this season.

Hey, MGL must've changed his handle.

What's the Mets single-season home run record?

Beltran tied Hundley with 41 this year.

I think it's obvious that neither team won this trade because a day hasn't even passed since it happened, for ##########.

It accomplishes something for both teams. The Sox were able to trade one of their expiring contracts for a good arm in Gonzalez and a project in Floyd, which helps to bulk up a thin farm system. It opens a rotation spot in McCarthy. Hell, Gonzalez and his 9.00+ K/9IP rate at Double-A might help out the bullpen as soon as this year, since they could use a lefty. The Sox also have about $9 million freed up towards future moves.

The Phillies get a front-line starter, who, if his splitter was for real last year, should be able to survive in CBP and be a rock in the rotation. It'll be interesting to see if his complete negligence towards baserunners and his nonchalant mannerisms will be ripped apart by Philly fans and media. He might be the pitching equivalent of Bobby Abreu.

That's what I see, anyway. I'm not recoiling in horror or celebrating. I'm just intrigued.

This is exactly the kind of move that Williams' hinted at on Tuesday.

From Baseball Centrist: “Pitching was what made us successful two years ago,” Williams said on Tuesday “We are committed to building with pitching, and I don’t want to do anything to compromise that. We never want to be in that position again where we can’t find a fifth starter,” he said of the lessons that he has learned. Throwing cold water on speculation then, he added “Anything you hear about [the Sox adding a top hitter] is just a rumor.” Motivating Williams stance are reports that he is receiving from his minor league scouts. “You’re seeing the price for pitching jump, and people are asking me if this is just a cycle,” one Sox scout said. “I don’t think it is. I think quality pitchers are just going to get more valuable, more expensive. It is shocking how few good pitchers there are in the minor leagues. Some organizations have some pitching . . . but there are some that don’t have a single pitcher. You watch a [minor-league] team for a week, every day you’re thinking, OK, I’ll see somebody today, and you never do.” So, Williams is intent upon trading Garcia or Vazquez in for a much younger pitching prospect, like the Angels’ Ervin Santana, the Rangers John Danks or Jason Hirsh of Houston.

The Sox are all about cost certainty. They just freed up $10M and got two fine young arms for a guy that was a free agent at the end of next season. Now they have the flexibility to let Contreras or Buehrle go at the end of 2007 and be able to replace them with either Gonzalez, Floyd or Haeger. Look for a repeat performance of last off-season when they had Contreras and Garland fighting to sign an extension.

Reasonable trade. Floyd sucks, so he's irrelevant. This is Garcia for Gonzalez, which sounds about right.

It also ends that silly notion that Garcia was worth Milledge. This is an expensive pitcher with scary trends who will be a FA next year, Garcia was not that valuable. The ChiSox had no use for Garcia anyway, and now they get back their pitching prospect.

The Phillies upgrade their rotation. But if they lose Lieber, it's pretty much spinning their wheels. I like Lieber more than most, he's a consistent above average starter.

What are the Sox going to be spending the money they save on? Or were there big jumps in their contracts for next year that pretty much balances their payroll to last year's #s now?

I do think we need at least one insurance policy against Hamels/Moyer/Eaton going down, but I don't see how they can make it work with these six.

They can always put put Eaton on the preemptive disabled list.

Floyd sucks, so he's irrelevant.

Heh. If an arm like Floyd got traded to the Mets, you know you'd be talking about how Peterson could fix him.

Sox are banking on Cooper here to turn another guy with an inconsistent delivery around. I'm skeptical, but if even one of the two pans out as a decent starter, the Sox will have gotten a good return.

No, I wouldn't. Floyd sucks. Peterson wouldn't be able to fix that.

BTW, Bavasi is an idiot.

"What are the Sox going to be spending the money they save on? Or were there big jumps in their contracts for next year that pretty much balances their payroll to last year's #s now?"

I have the Sox at about $89 million right now, which includes estimates for young guys like Thornton and Stewart but doesn't include anything for the three guys who are eligible for arbitration and haven't signed contracts yet (Crede, McDougal and Cintron).

Anybody know what the team estimated for an '07 payroll? I suppose you could get up to $100 million just with Crede, McDougal and Cintron, but my guess is that something else is going to happen. Maybe that's wishful thinking, but I haven't seen Williams talking about a need to move a pitcher just to free up salary.

Lieber will have to be dealt in order to open up spaces for Aaron Sele and John Halama. Word is that Bret Boone is tanned, rested, and ready...

This looks like another Williams thread to bookmark and make fun of people later.

Lieber will have to be dealt in order to open up spaces for Aaron Sele and John Halama. Word is that Bret Boone is tanned, rested, and ready...

Haha, I didn't realize that this was yet another ex-Mariner acquired by Gillick. I hear Mike Blowers is available to solve the third-base problem if Boone would rather spend his time writing a tell-all memoir.

But you know what, Gillick really screwed up, because he could have signed Gil Meche but he went for Adam Eaton instead. So many more ex-Marines, so little time...

This looks like another Williams thread to bookmark and make fun of people later.

Which is why this will be my only comment in it ...

I think it's OK. One of the starters was going to go, and I won't miss Garcia, although I appreciate his contributions in '05. Maybe Floyd goes into the McCarthy role this year, and may replace Burly in the rotation in '08.

Floyd was never going to succeed in Philadelphia. The fans turned on him and he seems sensitive. This is probably a good trade for both sides. A

This looks like another Williams thread to bookmark and make fun of people later.

If you're planning on making fun of people later, you should probably offer your own opinion now...

No, I wouldn't. Floyd sucks.

Okay. I'll take your word for it. Not the man with the ring.

I think it's a good trade. It could go bad, but Garcia isn't going to far outperform $10mil.

I'd say 35%: Garcia is good, neither of the pitchers turn into anything.

20% Garcia is bad, neither of the pitchers do anything.

20% Garcia is bad, one or both of the prospects are good.

25% Garcia is ok and one or both of the prospects make a marginal contribution.

I'd say it's probably 55/45 that the Phillies get more value.

Of course, if it's the third option, it's one of those "worst trades of all-time" type of situations.

So it's a good trade.

If it turns out badly, we can still play two out of three with the Lee and Contreras trades...

But you know what, Gillick really screwed up, because he could have signed Gil Meche but he went for Adam Eaton instead.
Ah, but Eaton is from Snohomish, which is just 25 miles from Safeco as the cow flops. You always want to hoard the home town heroes, like Sele and Blowers and Bloomquist...

Okay. I'll take your word for it. Not the man with the ring.

So we're going with Kenny Williams should never be questioned again?

Doesn't Gillick have multiple rings? This trade must be even 2 times better for the Phillies!!

Once Podsednik was re-signed, I knew they weren't going to be able to get a left fielder for one of their pitchers, and was kind of assuming they'd get prospects in return.

I'm OK with this deal after first not liking it so much. Gonzalez becomes the Sox second-best prospect (behind Sweeney); Floyd will probably battle Tracey, Haeger, Logan, and Phillips for the final bullpen spot.* Another fixer-upper for Coop, though Floyd's a bit younger than the other guys he's worked with.

Like Red, I never really fell in love with Garcia, though appreciate the work he did with the Sox. This is probably because I was so disappointed that they traded Jeremy Reed for him (of course, that didn't turn out too badly for the Sox).

* Sox still need another reliever.

So we're going with Kenny Williams should never be questioned again?

No, not at all. Question away.

I just love the one liners like that. Floyd has a pretty live arm with apparent delivery issues. He's the type of guy that Don Cooper has had success with in the past. That doesn't mean he'll neccessarily fix Floyd, but the potential is certainly there.

Williams got rid of him just in time rather than watch him become the new Russ Ortiz.

There will never be another Russ Ortiz.

Anyone know if Floyd still has option years?

Good for the Phillies, bad for the White Sox. Floyd's still young, but he's had two mediocre seasons in a row. Gonzalez fell apart last year. Garcia was durable, solidly above average, and a absolute steal given the market for SP this offseason.

Gonzalez hardly "fell apart". The Phillies skipped him to AA as a 20-YO (he was one of the youngest pitchers in the league all season). The walks are a problem, the HRs less so (Reading's a good HR park and Gio pitched about 2/3 of his innings there). He obviously needs to figure out how to throw strikes consistently again.

Anyone know if Floyd still has option years?

One.

-- MWE

This deal makes sense for the White Sox, who are familiar with both pitchers (Gonzalez from his time in the organization, Floyd from scouting in the AFL). Gonzalez has a shot to replace Buehrle in the rotation in 2008. As gambles go, Floyd seems like a better bet now than Matt Thornton did a year ago.

If Don Cooper can do this, Reinsdorf needs to sign him to a ten-year contract.

Gio Gonzalez? Sounds like KW had-a the buyer's remorse.

Don't know about other people, but I think Kenny-boy did OK in this deal.

KW is mortgaging a bit of his '07 in the service of the future. Because he has the resources to win in '07 even with the loss of Garcia, it's a decent move for the Sox. It would be kinda dumb to carry so much pitching into '07.

It's a good move for the Phils, too. I don't get what's so "scary" about Garcia's trend. He did last year almost exactly what he did in '03, except he gave up a lot fewer walks in '06. I.e., '06 was not out of line with his career. Yeah, he gave up a lot of dongs, but that's the Cell for you.

BOOO!

So John Danks and Matt Thorton lite for Garcia? BOO I say! What the hell is that? The Sox would have been better off keeping Garcia.

Oddly, the Sox never seem to rip anybody off. Sure, they make good trades, but that's because the players add value when they come to the sox, like Matt Thornton. But even if Gonzalez bounces back and Floyd becomes a good reliever, this deal still sucks. They can, and should have, gotten more.

Oddly, the Sox never seem to rip anybody off.

Thornton for Borchard
Jenks for waiver price
Gload for reticule of fingernail parings
Riske for Lopez
Thome for Rowand and parts
Garcia for Reed, Olivo, Morse (jury still out, but it's looking good)

Uribe for Miles

Lieber will have to be dealt in order to open up spaces for Aaron Sele and John Halama. Word is that Bret Boone is tanned, rested, and ready...

Haha, I didn't realize that this was yet another ex-Mariner acquired by Gillick. I hear Mike Blowers is available to solve the third-base problem if Boone would rather spend his time writing a tell-all memoir.

Is Philly racist? I'm sure Shigetoshi Hasegawa still can find the strike zone

...Uribe for Miles, too.

On the other hand, there's the bleaker and bleaker looking Vazquez-for-Young trade, and of course, the infamous Todd Ritchie deal.

Gonzalez hardly "fell apart". The Phillies skipped him to AA as a 20-YO (he was one of the youngest pitchers in the league all season). The walks are a problem, the HRs less so (Reading's a good HR park and Gio pitched about 2/3 of his innings there). He obviously needs to figure out how to throw strikes consistently again.

Thanks for the answer to my option question, Mike. I assume he'll start the year at Birmingham with a possible midseason promotion to Charlotte?

Thanks for the answer to my option question, Mike. I assume he'll start the year at Birmingham with a possible midseason promotion to Charlotte?

Possibly a midseason promotion to Chicago. That's what they did with Buehrle and Cotts, lefties who they projected as starters that skipped AAA.

On the other hand, there's the bleaker and bleaker looking Vazquez-for-Young trade...

Let's be fair. It was a clear win-now move for Kenny. That it didn't get them to the playoffs because of the supercharged Twins and Tigers doesn't mean it was pointless. Young wouldn't have given the Sox much in '06, and Vazquez is still an above-average starter.

Rosenthal is now speculating that the Jays might try to trade Vernon Wells to Chicago for McCarthy. I like it in theory for both teams, although I doubt there's anything to it. It's clearly just idle speculation because if the two teams were in talks, why not just trade Garcia for Wells straight-up?

because if the two teams were in talks, why not just trade Garcia for Wells straight-up?

Because McCarthy is younger, cheaper, under control longer, and arguably better.

The Astros are reportedly set to acquire Jon Garland from the White Sox, reportedly for Willy Taveras and Taylor Buchholz.

rotoworld

The Astros are reportedly set to acquire Jon Garland from the White Sox, reportedly for Willy Taveras and Taylor Buchholz.

barf

barf barf barf barf barf

WTF is Kenny W thinking?!

why not just trade Garcia for Wells straight-up?

Because Wells is a million times better than Garcia. Do you think there is a chance in hell the Jays would have traded Wells to the Phillies for Floyd and Gonzalez? The deal the Jays needed to make was with the Angels before they signed Mathews.

The Astros are reportedly set to acquire Jon Garland from the White Sox, reportedly for Willy Taveras and Taylor Buchholz.

Robothal has it as Taveras, Buchholz, and Hirsh, which makes a good deal more sense, but in any case it seems like it probably won't happen.

As for this trade, I kinda like it. I like that Kenny's making the team younger and thinking beyond 2007. And one year of Freddy Garcia, even at below-market rates, just isn't worth that much.

If its Hirsh - its a good deal. If not, why on earth did the White Sox trade a solid starter for a weak hitting CF and a mediocre arm?

Garcia's a 5-7 WARP pitcher. Wells is a 5-8 WARP batter. Throw in a B-/C+ prospect for Toronto and it's a good deal for both clubs.

As a Jays fan, I'd rather have McCarthy plus prospect. It just seems the Sox wouldn't have bothered with the Phillies deal if they were in serious talks with Toronto about acquiring Wells.

Robothal has it as Taveras, Buchholz, and Hirsh,

That's a lot better for the ChaSox.

If not, why on earth did the White Sox trade a solid starter for a weak hitting CF and a mediocre arm?

Maybe Gillick hypnotized Williams into thinking he had traded them away last year and now needs to get them back.

ESPN Radio just said the Garland deal is not happening.

Until it does happen, what's the point in talking about it? Let's leave the "I've got a hard-on about a deal that's never going to happen" stuff to fans of the Other Sox, who seem to enjoy that type of thing so much.

It doesn't look like the Astros trade is happening - right now it looks like Williams held out for Hirsh, and the Astros backed off.

"I'm reading a book about the history of the Phillies and Jim Konstanty sounds a lot like him."

Is it a good book? What is it called?

It's called "Occasional Glory: The History of the Philadelphia Phillies" by David M. Jordan. It's by a retired lawyer who is more of a historian than a writer (president of the Philadelphia A's Historical Society).

It gets really good when it reaches the late 40's (one senses that this is the time when the author starts writing about material he actually remembers); the earlier parts are full of interesting information but not written in a very memorable way. The whole book doesn't have as many quotes as I'd like - it's made up more of short descriptions of people and summaries of events. I'd recommend it.

Let's be fair. It was a clear win-now move for Kenny. That it didn't get them to the playoffs because of the supercharged Twins and Tigers doesn't mean it was pointless.

It also didn't get them to the playoffs because Vazquez had a 4.84 ERA.

"I'd recommend it."

Thanks. FWIW, the best history I've read of an individual team is From 33rd Street to Camden Yards if I remember correctly... it'd be pretty painful for any Orioles fan though- the contrast between the way they used to do business and how they do it now is just remarkable.

Garcia's a 5-7 WARP pitcher. Wells is a 5-8 WARP batter.

But there are more 5-8 WARP batters around than 5-7 WARP pitchers.

I love that title! I think the definition of "Occasional" might have to be stretched to include one WS championship in 119 years!

Well, Katherine the Great's biography was titled "Occasionally Crushed by a Fornicating Horse."

Yeah, [Garcia] gave up a lot of dongs, but that's the Cell for you.

And he's moving to Dodger Stadium in this deal? Not.

That said, Gillick seems to be actually building a rotation to go with his offense. It won't be a great rotation, nor probably even a really good one. But it's a step forward over chaos and Ryan Madson, backed by a chaotic bullpen and . . . Ryan Madson.

And he's moving to Dodger Stadium in this deal? Not.

Is CBP worse than the Cell? Kinda doubt it, but maybe.

Garcia's a 5-7 WARP pitcher. Wells is a 5-8 WARP batter.

But there are more 5-8 WARP batters around than 5-7 WARP pitchers.

Um, yeah. That's why I was arguing that a Wells-Garcia deal would have been "fair" despite the griping 'round here. Plus Rios or Johnson could ably fill in at CF, and give Lind a chance to earn the LF job.

Not to mention a 5-7 WARP pitcher could feasibly be resigned for about $10M/yr. It'll cost nearly double that to keep Wells.

That's why I was arguing that a Wells-Garcia deal would have been "fair" despite the griping 'round here.

It wouldn't have been close to fair, whatever WARP says. A year of Vernon Wells is more valuable than a year of Freddy Garcia.

Thome for Rowand and parts
Garcia for Reed, Olivo, Morse (jury still out, but it's looking good)

Not really. The trades are good, but that's because of what happened after them. The White Sox never seem to get equal value in the present. Thornton's value went up when he got to the Sox. So did Uribe's and Gload's. Riske was nice, but he's not a difference maker.

So what I'm hearing is this:

Garland to the Astros for Hirsh, Buchholz and Taveras

Garcia to the Phillies for Gonzalez and Floyd, but not Rowand included

Am I right, or is Rowand in the deal? So what's Hirsh's reportoire? I know he's big, but does he throw hard? Get grounders? What?

Ah, I see it's not happening. Shoot, we really got ripped off by the Phillies. That sucks.