The White Sox need to realize that Crede isn't as valuable as they think he is. He was never great to begin with--useful (especially with the glove), but not really that good--he's coming off an injury, and he's going into his walk year. What do they think they're going to get?

What do they think they're going to get?

Lincecum or Cain.

Lincecum or Cain.

Well, yeah. I guess they do. More realistically, I bet they want Sanchez. Just say no Brian Sabean! Or, keep saying no!

Lincecum or Cain.

If Williams believes this, he should be fired today.

If Williams believes this, he should be fired today.

No way! Jim Bowden is making a living asking for crazy-ass #### and getting it lately. Doesn't hurt to try.

No way! Jim Bowden is making a living asking for crazy-ass #### and getting it lately.

I can't believe he convinced the Nats to get him a Segway.

I read the article and I still don't know: what is Crede's salary for 2008? I seem to remember him being rather overpaid and, if true, he isn't worth anything in trade unless the Sox pay a portion of his salary. EDIT: I was thinking of Inge.

A talent evaluator familiar with both teams said the Sox were miffed the Giants’ offers for Crede included since-released pitcher Scott Williamson; pitcher Randy Messenger, who was optioned to Triple-A Fresno last week; and veteran outfielder Dave Roberts.

As an SF fan, if the Giants could still offer Roberts/Messenger for Crede, I'd be cool with that.

#1

The article said they want one of the Giants top prospects, and one serviceable young reliever.

The article mentions Villalona, Alderson and Bumgarner as top prospects, and also mentions the WS enquired about Jonathan Sanchez.

That seems way too much for someone like Crede. It's debatable just how much better than Feliz he is.

Are the White Sox intent on playing Josh Fields or would they start Crede every day?

That seems way too much for someone like Crede. It's debatable just how much better than Feliz he is.

I'd say about the same. Crede is probably better overall, but Feliz is durable and versatile. If the Giants didn't want Feliz, I can't see why they'd have much interest for Crede.

Is Crede better overall? His bat is less-putrid, but still below-average. His glove is good, but Feliz's glove has been superlative the last few years. And as noted, Feliz will play anywhere. He even strapped on catcher's gear once.

And I can't say I liked Feliz much. But Crede strikes me as all kinds of worth even less.

Is Crede better overall? His bat is less-putrid, but still below-average. His glove is good, but Feliz's glove has been superlative the last few years. And as noted, Feliz will play anywhere. He even strapped on catcher's gear once.

Yeah. I agree with you, but I didn't want White Sox Nation showing up in my lobby.

PECOTA projects a 254 EQA for Crede in 2008, Feliz 247.

AROM / CHONE projects Crede at +11, Feliz at +16 on D.

The Giants got a B pick as a result of Philly signing Feliz. Their salaries are similar. So, I guess, Crede should be worth a B pick type prospect to the Giants, and nothing more.

If Crede was 35, this trade would've been done weeks ago.

According to Cot's, Crede's making $5.1 million. I think he's arb eligible next year (he has 5.1 years of service under his belt).

But Crede is a playoff hero! Even A-Rod can't say that.

If Williams believes this, he should be fired today.

No way! Jim Bowden is making a living asking for crazy-ass #### and getting it lately. Doesn't hurt to try.

I said believe. Asking is fine, if you really believe Crede is worth Cain or Lincecum, you shouldn't be employed in MLB, in any capacity.

I said believe. Asking is fine, if you really believe Crede is worth Cain or Lincecum, you shouldn't be employed in MLB, in any capacity.

Point taken.

According to Cot's, Crede's making $5.1 million. I think he's arb eligible next year (he has 5.1 years of service under his belt).

He's an unrestricted free agent after this season. That's one of the reasons the Sox want to get something now for him.

I said believe. Asking is fine, if you really believe Crede is worth Cain or Lincecum, you shouldn't be employed in MLB, in any capacity.

No, but who says Kenny believes it? He's trying to maximize his return, who wouldn't do that? The Sox lose nothing by holding onto him for a little bit.

Now, actually doing the trade is another thing. Sabean should be kicked out if he gives up one of those two.

> The Giants got a B pick as a result of Philly signing Feliz. Their salaries are similar. So, I
> guess, Crede should be worth a B pick type prospect to the Giants, and nothing more.

Feliz was worth the cost in salary + B pick to the Phillies. I'd say Crede is worth a lesser major leaguer plus a B pick. Roberts + Messenger looks pretty fair.

I think I'd take what the Giants are offering. The sad fact is I'm pretty sure Roberts would give them 300 PAs' worth of improvement over whatever is going on in CF/LF (Swisher aside).

The Sox lose nothing by holding onto him for a little bit.

Not true at all. They lose possible trade opportunities.

I'd say Crede is worth a lesser major leaguer plus a B pick. Roberts + Messenger looks pretty fair.

I'm not sure what you are saying. Are you saying that Crede is worth less than Feliz? That lesser major leaguer comes with a salary attached.

More like Crede is > Feliz + B pick.

At $5.1 M Crede could very well have negative value. Being so injury prone, he'd have to be about 2-2.5 wins above replacement level, right?

BPro has him with a 50%-ile VORP of 2.1, 90%-ile of 16. His D ain't that good.

#24

More like Crede is > Feliz + B pick.

Err, Ok? Does that make Crede about equal to Feliz? I'm still not sure what you are saying.

Dave Roberts is not cheap, $12.2M / 2, and not good, he can't play CF. The Giants are already trying to throw him into the package. Throwing him into the trade would probably mean the rest of the package would have to increase in value.

I was listening to Boers the other day (Chicago sports radio) and he was talking about Crede has struggled, been a general disappointment for most of his career, and is of dubious health -- all true. Boers then opined that they need to let Crede play to prove he's healthy and boost his trade value, then dump him when he shown he can be valuable. Reasonable opinion.

Then he talks about how because Crede was a proven third basemen with valuable and reliable post-season experience, the Sox should be able to find a team that will give them either a reliable starter or a couple of good prospects -- either now or by the trading deadline.

It's amazing how your valuable your otherwise crappy player becomes when you are trying to trade him.

Are the White Sox intent on playing Josh Fields or would they start Crede every day?

i thought I read the other day that they were leaning towards starting the season with Crede at the corner. My guess is it just to help increase his trade value.

Wow, someone copied my nickname! (Not really)

Is there another team that would significantly upgrade their team by acquiring Crede?

Is there another team that would significantly upgrade their team by acquiring Crede?

The Silver Bullets?

If I were Sabean, I'd forget about Crede, play Ray Durham at 3rd (unless he can't make that throw) and play Kevin Frandsen at 2nd base. If they need to pick up someone else, maybe a career minor leaguer like Joe Dillon would be a nice, cheap option.

Is there another team that would significantly upgrade their team by acquiring Crede?

The Marlins or Pirates, but I don't think they're interested.

Is there another team that would significantly upgrade their team by acquiring Crede?

The Silver Bullets?

No chance; aren't they starting Merry Cherry at the hot corner this year?

i thought I read the other day that they were leaning towards starting the season with Crede at the corner. My guess is it just to help increase his trade value.

What the heck are they up to? If Crede's at 3B, that puts Fields in LF for sure which puts Quentin on the bench for sure and Swisher in CF for sure. That's a lot of counter-productive maneuvering in the hopes of landing the Giants #7 prospect.

Earlier it sounded like they were leaning towards Owen for CF which, even if they cleared out Crede, forces Quentin to the bench with Swisher in LF.

I am deducing from all this that the Sox are not exactly wowed by Mr. Quentin.

Anyway, I will have a hearty laugh if the Sox (unless forced by injury) open the season with Owen in CF and Crede at 3B.

(No, I don't expect that to happen)

It's amazing how your valuable your otherwise crappy player becomes when you are trying to trade him.

You wouldn't believe the debates I have with my fellow White Sox fans on other boards. You know, people that think Crede...is well...better than a below average-to-average major league third basemen. Even this article neglects to mention that his 2006 Silver Slugger season, by far the best of his career, was still only 107 OPS+...I assume for C or SS or 2B that'd be awesome but for 3B its average at best.

Ugh. Sorry for the vent.

Is Joe Crede better than Wes Helms? Given that Wes Helms does not have chronic back injuries, and is making a lot less money? (also one year left on his contract)

Because the Phillies have zero leverage right now and are still trying to get rid of Wes Helms. Would the Giants really be better off with Crede than him?

Helms would add a welcome dose of youth to the Giants

Looks like Fields would go to AAA

MLB.com
Williams also stated that Crede could break camp as the team's starting third baseman ..

The White Sox have ruled out a move back to left field for Fields ..

"I have to prepare myself to be ready to play, no matter where it is," added Fields, "If I do have to go down to Charlotte, I can't just mope around down there and hope that something happens. I have to make something happen and go down there and produce. That's the only way they will even think about pulling you back up to Chicago."